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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new
      #431877 - 09/03/07 11:10 AM
The G5 in our main studio is starting to exhibit worrying firewire problems. At first I thought it was a dodgy Lacie drive, but it appears to be happening on anything connected to the firewire ports.

The machine is a PPC G5 dual 2ghz, probably about 3 years old (it was here before I started working here), running 10.3.9. We're also running Pro Tools TDM 6.4 (with HD2 cards in the G5). We've got a Lacie D2 attached to the FW800 port, and a Focusrite Liquidmix attached to the FW400 port. The symptoms are as follows :

External drives unmounting, great difficulty getting them to re-mount.

Names of folders and files disappearing in the finder - and when you double click on them, they just disappear.

Liquid Mix disconnection (all the FW ports go down at the same time).

Usually, I can remedy it by disconnecting all the drives, running all the automation in Onyx (repair permissions / clear caches / optimise system etc), and resetting the PRAM on restart. But eventually it happens again.

We're at a crucial time here at the moment, with students working on final year projects. Downtime would be absolutely disastrous. Is there a reliable (and compatible with Pro Tools / Liquid Mix) Firewire 400 card I could just go out and buy, to take the onboard ports out of the equation?

The irony is that I've already got a FW800 PCI card waiting to go in there, but there's a problem with the Liquid mix which means it won't start up if there's an FW800 card in the system and the LM is plugged into the onboard FW400. Very annoying.

Any help or advice much appreciated.


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tomafd



Joined: 03/10/05
Posts: 3468
Loc: uk
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #431886 - 09/03/07 11:30 AM
I've no direct experience with the Liquid Mix, but I have seen an awful lot of posts recently detailing all kinds of problems, so if it's a recent addition, I strongly suspect it lies at the heart of the problem. Any kind of Firewire trouble will upset the finder, so that's probably why your files and folders are 'disappearing'.

I had similar trouble trying to get an RME FF800 to connect, if I had a Glyph drive attached- and there's no way of getting round it without another PCI card, the two just don't like each other- so your best bet is to trace the problem by booting with nothing attached, and then progressively attach firewire devices until the conflict occurs- and then you know which device is causing the trouble.

In the meantime, I'd give Focusrite a call and see if they've resolved the considerable troubles the Liquid Mix seems to cause- and not only on Macs.

--------------------
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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: tomafd]
      #431894 - 09/03/07 11:42 AM
Quote tomafd:

I've no direct experience with the Liquid Mix, but I have seen an awful lot of posts recently detailing all kinds of problems, so if it's a recent addition, I strongly suspect it lies at the heart of the problem. Any kind of Firewire trouble will upset the finder, so that's probably why your files and folders are 'disappearing'.

I had similar trouble trying to get an RME FF800 to connect, if I had a Glyph drive attached- and there's no way of getting round it without another PCI card, the two just don't like each other- so your best bet is to trace the problem by booting with nothing attached, and then progressively attach firewire devices until the conflict occurs- and then you know which device is causing the trouble.

In the meantime, I'd give Focusrite a call and see if they've resolved the considerable troubles the Liquid Mix seems to cause- and not only on Macs.




Well to be fair to Focusrite - on our system at least, the LM with FW800 card onboard problem is the only hitch I've had since we installed it last summer.

It's possible that the LM could be at the root of it all, but it's hard to diagnose as it's a completely intermittent problem - sometimes the machine will go for a week without any hitches.

I'm going to do some swapping of firewire cards with some other machines (we have a Digi 002 / Avid Mojo system that currently has two Pyro PCI firewire cards in it, which could probably get away with just the one) and see if that helps any.


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PaulD



Joined: 04/01/03
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Loc: Bristol UK
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #431936 - 09/03/07 12:42 PM
Hi
At the first hint of FW drives having mount problems its best to run DiskWarrior to check for any directory corruption.


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: PaulD]
      #431943 - 09/03/07 01:00 PM
Quote PaulD:

Hi
At the first hint of FW drives having mount problems its best to run DiskWarrior to check for any directory corruption.




Well yeah that would be good. At least it would be if the institution would give me the money for things like that. But enough of that moaning.

Anyway, I've put a Pyro PCI FW400 card into the machine, and moved all the firewire devices onto that. I'm letting it loop around on a big project for a while to see if it's all happy. So far so good.


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Tui
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Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #431967 - 09/03/07 01:34 PM
Didn't we also have several threads here about the firewire ports on G5s not being particularly reliable..?


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: Tui]
      #431971 - 09/03/07 01:40 PM
Quote Tui:

Didn't we also have several threads here about the firewire ports on G5s not being particularly reliable..?




I thought so, but couldn't find anything on an initial search.

Fingers crossed using this Pyro card will iron out the problems.


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W0mble
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Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #432097 - 09/03/07 04:53 PM
Unfortunately all Macs apart from the last G4's with FW800 have this problem. These 1.25 dual and 1.42 dual machines don't have this problem as they have separate busses or controllers for FW400 and FW800. I have had this problem with both firewire audio and firewire video equipment when using FW800 external HD.

A PCI firewire card should solve your problems.


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #433989 - 14/03/07 10:35 PM
So - an update.

Put the Pyro PCI Firewire card into the G5, and at first all seemed fine. But eventually, I started to get similar problems - although this time, rather than the drive dismounting, it would just give a DAE error in Pro Tools (-9073 - Pro Tools cannot get information from the drive fast enough bla bla).

I did a bit more googling for Lacie problems, and read a lot about people having problems with the power supplies for the D2. Lots of reports of the power supply intermittently not delivering enough power, resulting in random dismounts / spin-downs. Thankfully, as we've got a bunch of D2's, the one thing I have plenty of is PSU's. I swapped the suspect PSU for a new one, and all has been fine for a few days. If this was the problem, it could also explain why it has been particularly intermittent - we used to have two drives plugged in, and thus had two power supplies. Lately I've only been attaching a single drive, but would always just pick a random PSU to use. So it was like a lottery with a 50% chance of choosing the (presumably) duff PSU.

Fingers crossed this will sort things out.


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Audio Drum Samples



Joined: 03/02/07
Posts: 178
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #434003 - 14/03/07 10:59 PM
Quote mcguirk:

Quote PaulD:

Hi
At the first hint of FW drives having mount problems its best to run DiskWarrior to check for any directory corruption.




Well yeah that would be good. At least it would be if the institution would give me the money for things like that. But enough of that moaning.

Anyway, I've put a Pyro PCI FW400 card into the machine, and moved all the firewire devices onto that. I'm letting it loop around on a big project for a while to see if it's all happy. So far so good.




Disk warrior is only £50. It is well worth having the 'Rebuild directory' feature that it provides. Could save you a lot of time and hassle. If your drives are un-mounting, don't wait till it's too late. At least run a check even if it's nothing to do with the drives.
Back up, Back up Back up.

--------------------
www.audiodrumsamples.com
DRUM SAMPLES FOR YOU


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: Audio Drum Samples]
      #434016 - 14/03/07 11:39 PM
Quote Audio Drum Samples:


Disk warrior is only £50. It is well worth having the 'Rebuild directory' feature that it provides. Could save you a lot of time and hassle. If your drives are un-mounting, don't wait till it's too late. At least run a check even if it's nothing to do with the drives.
Back up, Back up Back up.




Well thanks for patronising me.

I back up regularly, thank you very much.

I don't have £50 of my own money to spend on software for the institution I work for. I'm aware of Diskwarrior already, but it's not an option right now. I'm guessing you don't work in education, as if you did you'd probably understand the position I'm in.


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fractured
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Posts: 929
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Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #434020 - 14/03/07 11:42 PM
I'm not familiar with your location. Is there an Apple store anywhere near you? They should have a copy of Drive Genius there and I find that with an appointment, they are always willing to lend a hand and their tools. ;-)

--------------------
"It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up, but why should I give up when it all seems so stupid?"


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: fractured]
      #434091 - 15/03/07 09:02 AM
Quote fractured:

they are always willing to lend a hand and their tools. ;-)




ooer missus!

I'm in the UK, and no there isn't an Apple store nearby. Thanks anyway.

I think cos I bumped this topic, people are thinking I'm still having problems - but it looks like (so far) I've solved the problem.

Edited by mcguirk (15/03/07 09:02 AM)


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steveman



Joined: 17/03/02
Posts: 1142
Loc: London - UK
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: mcguirk]
      #434129 - 15/03/07 10:25 AM
I have a D2 that had a dodgy PSU. They replaced it (out of warranty) when I had difficulty getting it sorted through a dealer. It may be worth contacting Lacie and seeing if you can get a(nother) spare PSU out of them.


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 619
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems new [Re: steveman]
      #434168 - 15/03/07 11:34 AM
Quote steveman:

I have a D2 that had a dodgy PSU. They replaced it (out of warranty) when I had difficulty getting it sorted through a dealer. It may be worth contacting Lacie and seeing if you can get a(nother) spare PSU out of them.




Yeah, might give them a shout and play up the fact that we're an educational institution and hope they take pity on me.

Did you have similar spindown problems with your D2 that had a dodgy PSU?


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steveman



Joined: 17/03/02
Posts: 1142
Loc: London - UK
Re: Worrying G5 (PPC) firewire problems [Re: mcguirk]
      #434319 - 15/03/07 04:50 PM
Yes, exactly that problem.
Sent the drive back to Lacie via Dabs twice, but the PSU wasn't checked (even though I told them this was the issue). By the time this was all over it was out of warranty. Contacted Lacie direct and they sent a replacement at no charge.


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