I have been reading a couple of post about the Atari with Notator and Cubase and I have some general questions. When you respond to the questions please do so numerically so I can tell which comment pertains to which questions. thanks.

1) With todays PC's will the PC's timing ultimately become unstable once you are running tons of vsti's , FX and what not? Basically the CPU gets overloaded to some extent to introduce timing inaccuracy within the sequencing program?

2) I assume this timing instability mostly occurs with high tempo drums , such as Drum n Bass percussion rhythms?

3) Is the atari, with the midi port expansions, basically the best Digitial midi workstation for just handling midi?

4) Basically is the Atari the most rock solid midi triggering sequencer that you can have?

5) If you are using an atari to trigger a PC's VSTs, and two pieces of hardware that are being recorded into the PC via a soundcard how can you keep the Atari timing? Sync it all via smpte?

6) If you where using the Atari strictly for triggering , would u use notator or cubase and why?

7) Is the Atari Falcon the speediest Atari you can get that will run the last versions of notator and/or cubase for the atari?

8) If you are still using an atari, or had used one please tell me about your rig and how you encorporated the Atari.

9) If you had to buy an Atari rig , what would you get? Please include all the extras such as midi port expanders etc

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E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Hi Rokuez,
let's have a go at your questions:

Quote rokuez:

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I have been reading a couple of post about the Atari with Notator and Cubase and I have some general questions. When you respond to the questions please do so numerically so I can tell which comment pertains to which questions. thanks.

1) With todays PC's will the PC's timing ultimately become unstable once you are running tons of vsti's , FX and what not? Basically the CPU gets overloaded to some extent to introduce timing inaccuracy within the sequencing program?

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Yes. From what I understand from the PC fraternity (and this was also mentioned in various editions of Atari notes in SOS), the main processor iscycling away merrily looking at hard drives, and connections to printers, the net, colour updates for the screen and 1001 other internal things. Even when everything not essential to music making is ditched, there's stil a helluva lot going on, and one of the problems with plug ins and VSTis can be the order in which they're loaded. eg the setup won't work with plug ins A+B+C+D, but it might do with B+D+A+C, or C+B+D+A, or a similar combination. What you may have to do is keep reinstalling stuff until you get the right combination!
So timing inaccuracies are bcause the main processor's busy doing (many?) other things when it should be listeneing to MIDI and/or audio.

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2) I assume this timing instability mostly occurs with high tempo drums , such as Drum n Bass percussion rhythms?

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It can do, but basically any MIDI intensive data stream can cause things to slow down: loadsa controller info such as volume, pitch bend, expression and filter cutoff ALL AT THE SAME TIME and on the same MIDI buss. However, having said that, using lots of mutliple MIDI outs on a system can help free things up quite a bit. And don't even think of trying complete sound bank dumps within a song! Even my Atari stops for a second to think about it, but that's the nature of the Sysex beast.

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3) Is the atari, with the midi port expansions, basically the best Digitial midi workstation for just handling midi?

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Yes-but then I would say that! Actually there's a story on the SOS site about using Ataris in studios. The author (I think it was Paul Ward) said that one day he connected his humble Atari to a Synclavier which masured the timing differences and showed the MIDI timing errors. Oh how the Synclavier owner laughed at the evidence. Then some time later he connected up a then state of the art Mac to the same Synclavier and checked the MIDI timing......
IT WAS WORSE.

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4) Basically is the Atari the most rock solid midi triggering sequencer that you can have?

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Yes. End of story.

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5) If you are using an atari to trigger a PC's VSTs, and two pieces of hardware that are being recorded into the PC via a soundcard how can you keep the Atari timing? Sync it all via smpte?

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Yes, and I would suggest using the Atari as the master clock and the others as slaves. Using Unitor or Midex will solve this. However, other folks here swear by using a hardware digital workstation such as a Tascam 2408 and then editing the finshed result on another platform. It's basically all down to wht works for you and what you're happy with.

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6) If you where using the Atari strictly for triggering , would u use notator or cubase and why?

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I use Notator, because I use the score editing all the time rather than grid eiting, and I like the pattern based nature of it which is very intuitive. It means that you can break a song down into different sections (intro, verse, chorus, etc) and just work on those sections. Cubase takes the 'non linear' approach and let's you record tape machine style, where any track can begin or end at any point. Again it's what suits you and your method of working. I'll also point out here that Cubase SX3 on a PC is a very long winded way of working compared to Cubase on the Atari, and Notator is a much simpler proposition than Logic on either a PC or Mac.
The main point of the attraction of an Atari is that the progs were written specifically with the Ataris memory limitations in mind: it's lean, mean and there's no superfluous stuff. With PCs the embarassment of riches that's the many meg (or even gig) of memeory means that all sorts of extra berlls and whistles have been added that you may or may not need. A similat analogy may be today's cars with satnav, electronic engine management, in car entertainment systems and what have you: all very nice, but not actually necessary to get from A to B.
And I liemthe perversity of making great music using 20 year oild technology that doesn't require endless tinkering and reinstalling jusy to get the damn thing to work!

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7) Is the Atari Falcon the speediest Atari you can get that will run the last versions of notator and/or cubase for the atari?

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Yes, but Notator won't run on the Falcon. Logic and Cubase will do. A Mega STE will happily run any of the sequencing progs and handle everything you care to throw at it. Tne TT is a nice computer, but again, not everything will run happily on there.

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8) If you are still using an atari, or had used one please tell me about your rig and how you encorporated the Atari.

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I started off with a humble STFM with 1 meg that I still have and still works fine. I started with Pro 24, the predecessor of Cubase, and it drove me nuts as it would crash at the most unpredictable of times. I learned to live with it, but when I changed to Notator and Unitor with 48 MIDI channels in 1990 I never looked back. In 2000 I upgraded again to a 4 meg STE and added Log 3 which revved up the MIDI channel count to 96, and in the last few years I've added even more synths: 20 at the last count. Notator drives them all wonderfully, and I use Unitor to connect to a Fostex 80 multitrack tape machine (Who needs 'tape saturation emulators'? I have the real McCoy). Unitor is a totally brilliant, reliable and idiot proof system that never lets you down.

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9) If you had to buy an Atari rig , what would you get? Please include all the extras such as midi port expanders etc

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I would get exactly the same all over again: a 4mB STE (the Mega STE's a wonderful beastie but the harddrive fan can be noisy in the studio, although there are ways around this), running Notator with Log3 and Unitor, and a hard drive system. I use the Syquest EZdrives, which you can get for peanuts on ebay and I've never had one give me any problems.
Ues, even if I hard to start all over again I'd STILL go Atari!

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Here's another perspective:

Quote rokuez:

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1) With todays PC's will the PC's timing ultimately become unstable once you are running tons of vsti's , FX and what not? Basically the CPU gets overloaded to some extent to introduce timing inaccuracy within the sequencing program?

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Yes, but that's not all. Whn the PC is apparently doing nothing but output MIDI, there are background processes running that have a fixed and higher priority than MIDI and so MIDI timing can be affected.

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2) I assume this timing instability mostly occurs with high tempo drums , such as Drum n Bass percussion rhythms?

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Busy tracks and lots of CC messages can certainly lead to timing problems from MIDI iverload, but the MIDI problems on Windows machines can affect the 'feel' and 'swing' of basic four-step drum patterns when compared with solid sequencers. That's partly why I ditched PCs for music a couple of years ago.

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3) Is the atari, with the midi port expansions, basically the best Digitial midi workstation for just handling midi?

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Probably, but don't discount hardware sequencers. For me, it's a toss up between my old Atari and a not-quite-so-old Yamaha QY700.

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4) Basically is the Atari the most rock solid midi triggering sequencer that you can have?

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Probably, but don't discount hardware sequencers. For me, it's a toss up between my old Atari and a not-quite-so-old Yamaha QY700.

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5) If you are using an atari to trigger a PC's VSTs, and two pieces of hardware that are being recorded into the PC via a soundcard how can you keep the Atari timing? Sync it all via smpte?

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Could do - or MIDI time code - but the VSTs will still be subject to the timing problems of MIDI on a PC. And in this case, it's the timing on MIDI inputs to the PC that is the problem, not on the outputs. Both Steinberg with their UMTS technology in the Midex8 and Midex3 and Emagic with their MIDI interfaces addressed the timing on the PCs MIDI outputs, but could or would do nothing about the timing jitter between incoming MIDI messages and the arrival of those messages in sequencers, VSTs etc.

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6) If you where using the Atari strictly for triggering , would u use notator or cubase and why?

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Cubase, because a. I have it and b. I know it.

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8) If you are still using an atari, or had used one please tell me about your rig and how you encorporated the Atari.

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Atari STE with Cubase and Steinberg Midex MIDI port expander. 15 Inch flat panel monitor.
Atari MIDI I/O to Axon AX100SB guitar to MIDI synth system. Midex MIDI I/O to EMU E500Ultra sampler.
Midex I/O to Yamaha AW16g digital audio worksatation for Sync and MMC (Cubase is the MMC master, controling the transport of the AW16g. AW16g is the sync master, sending MIDI timecode to Cubase).
Midex MIDI output to Emu Ultraproteus synth module.

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9) If you had to buy an Atari rig , what would you get? Please include all the extras such as midi port expanders etc

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See above.

--------------------
Nik
Godin, Axon, Tonelab, Repeater & the skin of my teeth!

Hmmm the info sounds good. Could you please answer back 1, 2, 3 order thanks.

I definitely understand how even if the Atari is triggering the PC , the PC's internal timing with triggering it's VST's and such could be off.

<-- 1) There is for sure no way to fix this syncing wise? I would just like to make sure because it is demoralizing to know that the medium I record into , my PC, is innaccurate. Also to know that when I take that sequencing load off of the PC by triggering it with the atari, that I can't even record my 10 1/4 input tracks, and have it playing vsti's because at some point it won't be accurate, sooner or later by too many tracks, fx, or vsti CPU load.

2) Also I've seen some post about people using a PCM card for a harddrive and having the machine be a lot more silent? Care to fill me in a little bit . Could I do this with the 4 mb Atari STE?


3) Is the Atari STE 4mb the one to go with because all the notator and cubase program's version(s) run on it properly? All of the latest Notator and cubase for atari can be run on Atari STE 4mb correct?


4) I've seen some websites (http://4mbste.atari.org/) for example that sell a 4mb upgrade kit. So my question is this, If I where to buy a normal Atari ST from ebay, and use this kit would I be lacking anything hardware spec wise from a normal Atari STE 4mb, cpu wise , fron size buss wise type specs...?

5) Are PC's really an efficient means of a large track recording medium, or sooner or later will they always foul something up with CPU Load problems? I'm wondering because I have a RME Fireface 800 and timing wise it seems like its on point. But i haven't loaded it up with a stress test to check its timing accuracy. BASICALLY I'm wondering to have the advantages of the PC sound plethora wise but to have its timing and hence sound never foul up the only for sure way to do this would be having a separate machine other then the PC itself, recording its audio.

Hence the Atari would have its multiple midi outs , one for the PC, one for the Drum machine, and one for the sampler . THE pc , drum machine, and sampler would all be recorded by another machine ( say a tape machine, or a stand alone digital recorder ), slaved to the atari, with the atari triggering the PC , drum machine, and sampler.



6) I've seen some post that you can get an adapter to use the Atari on a LCD screen. What adapter to you need, and what is the max LCD it will work for?

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E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Once again, my perspective may be different from David's, but:

Quote rokuez:

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<-- 1) There is for sure no way to fix this syncing wise? I would just like to make sure because it is demoralizing to know that the medium I record into , my PC, is innaccurate. Also to know that when I take that sequencing load off of the PC by triggering it with the atari, that I can't even record my 10 1/4 input tracks, and have it playing vsti's because at some point it won't be accurate, sooner or later by too many tracks, fx, or vsti CPU load.

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The PC is fine for recording audio, and fine for triggering VSTs from MIDI internally. It is just not quite so good when either triggering external sound modules from MIDI, or triggering its own VSTs from external MIDI. It's the MIDI interface to the outside world that is the problem.

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2) Also I've seen some post about people using a PCM card for a harddrive and having the machine be a lot more silent? Care to fill me in a little bit . Could I do this with the 4 mb Atari STE?

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I run my STe without a hard drive and it is silent.

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3) Is the Atari STE 4mb the one to go with because all the notator and cubase program's version(s) run on it properly? All of the latest Notator and cubase for atari can be run on Atari STE 4mb correct?

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Yes, so long as you don't want to record audio on it. 4mb is just the memory size. 1mb is OK for most things. I think maybe tha last versions of Cubase need the Atari to have 2mB installed.

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4) I've seen some websites (http://4mbste.atari.org/) for example that sell a 4mb upgrade kit. So my question is this, If I where to buy a normal Atari ST from ebay, and use this kit would I be lacking anything hardware spec wise from a normal Atari STE 4mb, cpu wise , fron size buss wise type specs...?

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To upgrade a normal STe 520 or 1040 to 4mB you need 4 old fashioned 1mb memory simm modules. 32-pin I think. That site is just making it easy for you so you don't have to hunt around on Ebay for som old simms.
There are no other differences between a regular STe and a 4mb STe.
Older STF and STFM Ataris are different.

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5) Are PC's really an efficient means of a large track recording medium, or sooner or later will they always foul something up with CPU Load problems? I'm wondering because I have a RME Fireface 800 and timing wise it seems like its on point. But i haven't loaded it up with a stress test to check its timing accuracy. BASICALLY I'm wondering to have the advantages of the PC sound plethora wise but to have its timing and hence sound never foul up the only for sure way to do this would be having a separate machine other then the PC itself, recording its audio.

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The PC is fine for audio. So long as it is configured right, you would have to have a LOT of tracks with a lot of processing for it to start misbehaveing. It's the MIDI interface to the outside world that is the problem.

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Hence the Atari would have its multiple midi outs , one for the PC, one for the Drum machine, and one for the sampler .

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OK

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THE pc , drum machine, and sampler would all be recorded by another machine ( say a tape machine, or a stand alone digital recorder ), slaved to the atari, with the atari triggering the PC , drum machine, and sampler.

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Just record the Sampler and drum machine into the PC. No separate recorder required.

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6) I've seen some post that you can get an adapter to use the Atari on a LCD screen. What adapter to you need, and what is the max LCD it will work for?

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The adapters are available in a number of places. You can run any size LCD, but the resolution will always be the 640x480 that is set by the Atari. On my LCD, some screen area is left unused at the top and bottom, but it's much better than the old Atari monitor.

--------------------
Nik
Godin, Axon, Tonelab, Repeater & the skin of my teeth!

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THE pc , drum machine, and sampler would all be recorded by another machine ( say a tape machine, or a stand alone digital recorder ), slaved to the atari, with the atari triggering the PC , drum machine, and sampler.



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Just record the Sampler and drum machine into the PC. No separate recorder required.


^^^According to what you said before however, the PC which is having its vst's triggered externally by the atari would have its timing befuddled correct? So the vst's would still sound off timing wise being that they are triggered externally by the atari.


Is this the correct setup to have no midi timing issues; Have the PC triggering its own vsti's in its own sequencer program. Then slave the PC with nuendo say to the atari via smpte (or MMC?), and still have the atari trigger the drum machine and sampler being recorded into the PC.

This would cause all of the midi within the PC to be triggered properly, and it would cause all the external gear to be triggered properly , and recorded properly right?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of simple questions I'm a newbie to Atari's and to the whole midi thing in general.

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E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

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Is this the correct setup to have no midi timing issues; Have the PC triggering its own vsti's in its own sequencer program. Then slave the PC with nuendo say to the atari via smpte (or MMC?), and still have the atari trigger the drum machine and sampler being recorded into the PC.

This would cause all of the midi within the PC to be triggered properly, and it would cause all the external gear to be triggered properly , and recorded properly right?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of simple questions I'm a newbie to Atari's and to the whole midi thing in general.

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Yup.
That's about right. To get it as tight and consistant as possible, I think in Nuendo and Cubase you can stripe an audio track with SMPTE. Give that track its own audio output and sync the Atari to it. This way you can use external MIDI sound modules and have no MIDI interface in the PC.

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Nik
Godin, Axon, Tonelab, Repeater & the skin of my teeth!

Quote Shingles:

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Quote rokuez:

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Is this the correct setup to have no midi timing issues; Have the PC triggering its own vsti's in its own sequencer program. Then slave the PC with nuendo say to the atari via smpte (or MMC?), and still have the atari trigger the drum machine and sampler being recorded into the PC.

This would cause all of the midi within the PC to be triggered properly, and it would cause all the external gear to be triggered properly , and recorded properly right?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of simple questions I'm a newbie to Atari's and to the whole midi thing in general.

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Yup.
That's about right. To get it as tight and consistant as possible, I think in Nuendo and Cubase you can stripe an audio track with SMPTE. Give that track its own audio output and sync the Atari to it. This way you can use external MIDI sound modules and have no MIDI interface in the PC.

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Let me just make sure I got this right, sorry if it seems tedious.

1) The PC cannot trigger other pieces of hardware precisely by outputting midi. Nor can the PC be triggered by an external midi triggering source say the atari, maintain its vsti's audio precieness? <-- and this is because varying amounts of CPU overhead-processing, which effects the PC's multiple external midi output(s), or the CPU overhead interfers with the inward bound midi message from the point when its received at the PC's midi input port, to when it actually reaches the vst and makes it play a sound.


will be effecting when the external midi message(s) gets triggered by the vsti.


2)
"I think in Nuendo and Cubase you can stripe an audio track with SMPTE. Give that track its own audio output and sync the Atari to it. This way you can use external MIDI sound modules and have no MIDI interface in the PC. "


^^^ Maybe I do not simply understand SMPTE properly but can you tell me if my interpretation is correct?

When you stripe an audio track with SMPTE that is like a click-track via 1/4 output to input which other pieces of gear say a drum machine can sync up to via a quarter inch SMPTE input correct? When you say sync atari to it, are you talking about a scenario where atari is the slave? That statement was confusing for me because I do not understand the technical aspects of SMPTE used in conjunction with audiotracks. Could you please go back over it in a more primitive manner please?



3) The Atari's midi out has the PC slaved and synced to the Atari by the SMPTE's frame rate via a midi cable. BUT The PC's midi melodies in nuendo for the VSTi's are programed/recorded in Nuendo by midi tracks let us say , hence triggering the PC's vsti's internally but by midi non the less <---- At this point the PC has no problem internally triggering its vsti's by midi? Is this a difficult stress test to break?

3) Am I correct in saying that by having the atari trigger the PC's vsti's, and having the PC record audio from other gear (trigged by the atari as well) the timing would sooner or later not be solid. <--- and this is because the PC handles triggering its VST's better when triggered internally by nuendo's midi tracks rather than being externally trigged by the atari?

4) If number three is true. Then should I record the VST's melody into nuendo having my main axe hooked up to the RME's midi in (or one of atari's out hooked up to the rme's in) ? or should I just send the midi track data via atari to the PC via a midi cable? I'm just kinda confused becuase if the PC triggers its own vst's internally with more accuracy by having the midi coming from its own program then, it would be a matter of slaving the PC to the Atari and just triggering the other outboard gear with the atari, correct?

5) So Basically the Atari has nuendo slaved to it, hence nuendo's midi tracks (internally triggering the vsti/ reason / or whatever mind you) , and audio recording rate of the 1/4 ins are all step. Now I would want the drum machine and sampler to not only be slaved to the atari, but also to have the atari triggering them. Or should I just simply Trigger outboard gear with the Atari, and not even worry about slaving the external sequencer of say a drum machine...?

6) I live in LA and am going to post on CL looking for an Atari MEGA STE 4MB, what is the price range? What is the price range for the notator and cubase dongles?

7) What is the name of the VGA adapter so I can use a LCD with the Atari?

8) What is the largest PCM card I can get to work with the Atari? This would effectively replace the harddrive and quite down the machien, correct?

9) What LCD screen size would you say maxes out the low resolution from the Atari? Say like a 21 in lcd is overkill for that resolution , or perhaps a 17 in is perfect for that resolution and objects in notator or cubase.

10) Can you use a trackball or modern day mouse with the Atari?

11) For the midi port expanders. One Expander say expander X will work in both Cubase and Notator. OR will certain midi port expanders only work with one progam, like ONLY notator.

12) Just to make sure the Atari STE Mega 4 mb system would be the finest system just for running a midi sequencer program via notator or cubase.

13) Whats the latest OS that the STE atari should have? Whats the latest os for notator and cubase (bear in mind i'm only using this for midi unless the new o/s's had useful midi features along with their audio recording capabilities)

14) Is there any difference between the 8 mhz and 16 mhz speed ? Do notator and cubase need to be run in 8 mhz?

15) What is the resolution or PPQ of notator and Cubase?

16) Is it fair to say that because the atari has the built in midi port it records your midi performance more accurately then say the akai mpc 4000 with its 960 ppq resolution sequencer?


Basically I have an Emu SP 1200, an Emu Emulator III giving me 10 quarter inch audio track inputs, as well as my PC running Nuendo, vsti's, reason etc by an RME fireface 800 soundcard. I'm just looking for the most rock solid timing for my system. All the advice and Any advice on how I should string it all together is much appreciated.

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E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Edited by rokuez (30/03/07 01:33 PM)

17) I read on another forum

"Notator is supposed to be the tightest due to the fact that it accesses the midi ports on a DMA level. Cubase was never as tight."


[ http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=58131&highlight=atari ]

that Notator accesses midi ports at the DMA level, where as cubase didn't. So Notator apparently was more precise and handled midi overall quicker. Is this true?

18) What are the most midi outs possible when using Notator? What are the most midi outs possible when using Cubase?

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E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

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Yup.
That's about right. To get it as tight and consistant as possible, I think in Nuendo and Cubase you can stripe an audio track with SMPTE. Give that track its own audio output and sync the Atari to it. This way you can use external MIDI sound modules and have no MIDI interface in the PC.

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You can do the same thing with Unitor and Notator.

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^^^ Maybe I do not simply understand SMPTE properly but can you tell me if my interpretation is correct?

When you stripe an audio track with SMPTE that is like a click-track via 1/4 output to input which other pieces of gear say a drum machine can sync up to via a quarter inch SMPTE input correct?

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Actually, no. It's much more precise that that. SMPTE measures hours, mins, secs and frames very precisely and deals in the amount of time elapsed rather than a particular tempo. This way you can have loads of tempo changes in any piece and the tempo map via SMPTE will follow it exactly (to four decimal places!)

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When you say sync atari to it, are you talking about a scenario where atari is the slave?

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Not necessarily. Syncing something means getting them to run together, and which is the master and which is the slave is entirely up to you. The Atari will be better for timing for all the reasons that we've dealt with here and in other posts. It's doing just the one thing (MIDI sequencing) and nothing else so there's no superfluous stuff going on in the processor.

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That statement was confusing for me because I do not understand the technical aspects of SMPTE used in conjunction with audiotracks. Could you please go back over it in a more primitive manner please?

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SMPTE timecode is an electronic warble that's counting off time elapsed very quickly and precisely (as explained above). Rumour has it that it was developed for the space program (firing your retros excatly to time) but it's main usage is in TV and film work, to sync up video recorders, audio track and everything else you can think of. When you stripe a track, that becomes the master sync reference point, and everythign else will follow that and act accordingly. I hope this explanation's a bit clearer.

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3) The Atari's midi out has the PC slaved and synced to the Atari by the SMPTE's frame rate via a midi cable. BUT The PC's midi melodies in nuendo for the VSTi's are programed/recorded in Nuendo by midi tracks let us say , hence triggering the PC's vsti's internally but by midi non the less <---- At this point the PC has no problem internally triggering its vsti's by midi? Is this a difficult stress test to break?

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Not necessarily so. With Unitor and Midex the SMPTE code is output through a seperate audio cable. Try thinking of it this way: The two programs are running indepndently of each other, but the SMPTE code reference will tell Nuendo exactly how fast to run to stay exactly in time with the Atari. Going back in time, SMPTE was used to combine MIDI and audio on tape: You stripe one track of tape machine with SMPTE, and then you can link it together with a computer to get the MIDI gear to run in time with the tape and not have to record the MIDI gear's audio output to tape. Going back even further, you could use SMPTE to control two 24 track tape machines and get them to run at the same time.

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3) Am I correct in saying that by having the atari trigger the PC's vsti's, and having the PC record audio from other gear (trigged by the atari as well) the timing would sooner or later not be solid. <--- and this is because the PC handles triggering its VST's better when triggered internally by nuendo's midi tracks rather than being externally trigged by the atari?

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You've got me there, as I still use nothing but hardware. Anyone else care to comment?

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5) So Basically the Atari has nuendo slaved to it, hence nuendo's midi tracks (internally triggering the vsti/ reason / or whatever mind you) , and audio recording rate of the 1/4 ins are all step. Now I would want the drum machine and sampler to not only be slaved to the atari, but also to have the atari triggering them. Or should I just simply Trigger outboard gear with the Atari, and not even worry about slaving the external sequencer of say a drum machine...?

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I would trigger everything from the Atari myself. In addition, I wouldn't bother trying to use the onboard sequencer on a drum machine but simply use it as a sound module for drum sounds and trigger that from the Atari.

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6) I live in LA and am going to post on CL looking for an Atari MEGA STE 4MB, what is the price range? What is the price range for the notator and cubase dongles?

---

It's probably higher in the U.S. than Europe as Atari was far more prominent over this side of the pond. Have alook on ebay and see what comes up. Better still, contactr Barrie at Keychange (www.keychange.co.uk) who has all this stuff in stock and send worldwide.

Quote:

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7) What is the name of the VGA adapter so I can use a LCD with the Atari?

---

It's just called a VGA adaptor. Keychange do them, so does Mario Beecroft in New Zealand. Barrie's price is around £15 /$30 ish, and they work brilliantly. I use them myself.

Quote:

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8) What is the largest PCM card I can get to work with the Atari? This would effectively replace the harddrive and quite down the machien, correct?

---

Barrie can help you on this. The Syquest EZdrives that I use are totally silent and (up to now) totally reliable!

Quote:

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9) What LCD screen size would you say maxes out the low resolution from the Atari? Say like a 21 in lcd is overkill for that resolution , or perhaps a 17 in is perfect for that resolution and objects in notator or cubase.

---

I find 17" okay. You can see the screen across the room as the text sizes are very big compared to the midget stuff you see on PC and Mac resolutions. Remember that the original Atari monitor was small in the extreme by today's standards. Anything bigger is a bonus!

Quote:

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10) Can you use a trackball or modern day mouse with the Atari?

---

Yes. Atari did their own trackball which is now rather rare but I've seen them come up on enay every so often, and there are PC mouse adaptors also on the market.

Quote:

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11) For the midi port expanders. One Expander say expander X will work in both Cubase and Notator. OR will certain midi port expanders only work with one progam, like ONLY notator.

---

Be very careful here. Basically Midex will only work with Cubase, and Unitor will only work with Notator -although there is a file in Cubase to make use of the Unitor, but I don't know of anyone who uses it. Some expanders are simple extra MIDI ports but (and this is the important point) some expanders have th pogram dongle built in. The original Unitor mk1 is the classic case here. The Mk2 has a seperate dongle port and works with Log 3, which gives you another 3 extra MIDI outs and has the dongle built into it.

Quote:

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12) Just to make sure the Atari STE Mega 4 mb system would be the finest system just for running a midi sequencer program via notator or cubase.

---

Yes, indeedy, and just to confuse you more, the Mega STE is supposedly even better! This can have a hard drive built into the case, which may be noisy for studio usage. Best stick with a basic 4mB STE for safety.

Quote:

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13) Whats the latest OS that the STE atari should have? Whats the latest os for notator and cubase (bear in mind i'm only using this for midi unless the new o/s's had useful midi features along with their audio recording capabilities)

---

TOS 2.6, which is standard on mega STEs and can be fitted as a chip to ordinary STEs. You'll find that the STE's own TOS will be fine for MIDI usage. For now, don't worry baout audio recording on Atari unless you want to go down the Falcon route -and that opens up a whole new can of worms!

Quote:

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14) Is there any difference between the 8 mhz and 16 mhz speed ? Do notator and cubase need to be run in 8 mhz?

---

You'll find that the STE runs fine and I beleive the Megas run at 16mHz, but I'm not up to speed on the full specs. Your Atari will be fine. I think there's more info on the FAQ sticky thread at the top of the forum.

Quote:

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15) What is the resolution or PPQ of notator and Cubase?

---

Can't answer for Cubase, but Notator far and away exceeds the MIDI timing spec. That's one of the many things I love about it!

Quote:

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16) Is it fair to say that because the atari has the built in midi port it records your midi performance more accurately then say the akai mpc 4000 with its 960 ppq resolution sequencer?

---

Yes.

Phew!

Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Quote rokuez:

---

17) I read on another forum

"Notator is supposed to be the tightest due to the fact that it accesses the midi ports on a DMA level. Cubase was never as tight."


[ http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=58131&highlight=atari ]

that Notator accesses midi ports at the DMA level, where as cubase didn't. So Notator apparently was more precise and handled midi overall quicker. Is this true?

---

I believe so.

Quote:

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18) What are the most midi outs possible when using Notator? What are the most midi outs possible when using Cubase?

---

Six in Notator, using six inpdenet MIDI outs: the Atari's own one, two extras in Unitor (with two extra ins) and three extra outs on Log 3.
I think Cubase is slightly different. Any takers?

Next questions please!


Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

I believe with Cubase you can run both the steinberg Midex(4 midi outs/2 midi in) and the C-Lab Xport(modem port box 3 Midi outs) midi expanders,this would give you 8 outs in total and 3 Midi ins,not sure on the timing/Reliability of the Modem port expander,though this was supposed to be not as fast as the Unitor or Midex,but the Ataris are pretty rock solid I doubt you'd notice any real problems unless running real heavy sequences

I think notator can only handle 8 outs max(Log 3 Unitor and Clab Xport cartridges),although with the Unitor combiner(which is an expansion which allows more xpanders to be routed into into the same port),you could probably add more Unitor cartridges,for more Midi outs/Ins????although not ever seen this being utilised,so can't vouch for it to work..

Hi Thunderball,
Actually, Export wasn't very good timing wise because it uses the modem port on the back of the Atari. While it's fine for oen MIDI output, it sweats a bit with three. In fact the Notator manual recommends not using the Export extra two outs for 'time depndent material' (their words).
I think this is why they developed Log 3, which suffers from no such limitations.
You can use all three for 9 MIDI outs (144 MIDI channels) if you're using Logic on the Atari, but very few people were mad enough to do so (I mean use Logic, not 144 MIDI channels!)
With earlier versions of Notator, the Exprt outs were B, C and D, (A being the Atari MIDI out). From v.3.21 with the Log 3 support these are automatically re-mapped to the Log 3 outs, G, H and I. E and F are the Unitor outs.

Hope this clears things up,
Best wishes,
Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

alright well it looks like I will go with the atari 1040 ste with 4 mb. I did get an offer of someone selling me their "mega 4" is what he called it. I assume this has the noisey fan for the internal harddrive?

Also what is the difference between Logic and Notator? Notator was for the 16 mhz ste mega?


One more questions I hope you guys can answer. If i have a SMPTE audio track which nuendo is keeping time with, should I trigger the PC's vsti's with the atari , or by nuendo internally within the PC?

Also the SMPTE audio track comes outta the Atari correct?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

---

alright well it looks like I will go with the atari 1040 ste with 4 mb. I did get an offer of someone selling me their "mega 4" is what he called it. I assume this has the noisey fan for the internal harddrive?

---

Yes, an STE is the one. A Mega ST would have been the earlier version of the Mega and some I beleive (someone else correct me on this) were only 2 or 2.5 meg. The STE range are easier to upgrade in memory using plug in SIMMs rather than having to solder them in. By all means go and check out the Mega ST and see how noisy you think the fan may be if fitted-soem Megas come without an internal hard drive.

Quote:

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Also what is the difference between Logic and Notator? Notator was for the 16 mhz ste mega?

---

The difference is like having the Space Shuttle to go your local shops in! It's supposed to be a 'logical' upgrade to Notator, but there's so much to get lost in that you end up spending days exploring various setups and you forget what you wanted to do in the first place. It can do a lot, but personlly I find it unbeleivably counter intuitive. Remember that that's only my opinion, and obviously many others are using Logic quite happily on other platforms. Mind you, you only have to look on this site to see all the articles on how you fix this that and the other in Logic, and PC Publishing have several books on Logic designed to fill in the gaps and eliminate the confusion (for confused you certainly will be) about the whole program itself!
Notator on the other hand is relatively simple to understand and very intuitive. There's lots of help on the notator website (www.notator.org) that explains all you need to know, and the notator users group has lots of folks whocan answer your questions on all aspects of the prog.
Notator was originally developed for the 520 ST and would run with only 1/2 a meg of memory. Later versions would run happily on 1 meg, and the last version-3.21 would just about run on a 1 meg ST(E). Ideally you should have 2 meg and up to run everything as it has a tremendous amount of features that in the main work seamlessly. It's simply that it will run quicker and cleaner on a 4 meg STE.

Quote:

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One more questions I hope you guys can answer. If i have a SMPTE audio track which nuendo is keeping time with, should I trigger the PC's vsti's with the atari , or by nuendo internally within the PC?

---

I'd try both and see which gives the best results. I'be inclined to go for Atari triggering myself.

Quote:

---

Also the SMPTE audio track comes outta the Atari correct?

---

Yes, via the Unitor SMPTE out if you're using Notator.

Best wishes,
Dave.


--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

The info on this thread might have been correct in about 1996, but not in 2007.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

---

The info on this thread might have been correct in about 1996, but not in 2007.

---

can you be more specific?

do you think the atari is the most rock solid midi sequencing program?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

---

Quote feline1:

---

The info on this thread might have been correct in about 1996, but not in 2007.

---

can you be more specific?

do you think the atari is the most rock solid midi sequencing program?

---

Ignore him. he'll go away.

.....and I don't think he's an Atari user either!

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Quote rokuez:

---

Quote feline1:

---

The info on this thread might have been correct in about 1996, but not in 2007.

---

do you think the atari is the most rock solid midi sequencing program?

---

Yes...


Well put it this way...I've had 3 PC's in the last ten years,My Atari is still going strong in the studio,and I've lost count the amount of times I've arsed about trying to put something right with the PCs,but have never had so much as a squeak(that is if you include my Music ) out of the ST,Whether its the best rock solid sequencer or not is a matter of opinion,but I doubt you'll get a PC solution for the price of a train ticket!!!,


It beats any comparible PC for timing imo,personally for me you wont find anything more solid,other than maybe using a hardware standalone,and thats why many people are still hardcore users of the ST...

I'm just pointing out that your generic handwaving criticisms of timing accuracy on a PC may apply to Windows 3.1 with a Roland MPU401 interface etc etc, but it's not 1994 any more.

MIDI is protocol running at 31kbaud, modern gigahertz PCs (or Macs), with a properly configured OS and modern drivers, can run MIDI perfectly well, you can get interfaces with 16 or 32 output ports, you know! Keep up at the back there...

Although personally, I do most of my sequencing on an Akai MPC4000.

Moreover, the Atari ST was no BBC B ...

Mind you, we have two Sinclair Spectrums running here at Feline HQ...

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

.......In answer to which I would refer you to other posts on this forum from folks who've compared PCs and Ataris and found the Atari to sound 'tighter and more musical' when sequencing (their words) when compared to PCs. Draw your own conclusions from this.
Obviously it's down to individual perception, and I fully agree that you can have MIDI interfaces with potentially thousands of channels. The point remains that for an increasing number of posters here in Atariland, they're coming back to the Atari 'cos they're fed up with their PCs.
I work (if that's the correct term) with PCs at one of the schools I teach at. These are running XP and Edirol modules through USB connections and every week it's like trying to pull teeth just to get the buggers to even talk to each other. The universal panacea seems to be to reboot, which quite frankly in 2007 is nothing short of incompetence to my mind.
And my Atari is still running happily for over ten years since the last major crash!



Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

I'm looking at some pics of the atari mega, which someone has offered me. I am noticing that the mega is more like a desktop version and it can have a keyboard that is attatched to it ,rather then having the keyboard and the desktop as one unit. Like the atari 1040 ste.


Could you please answer like 1 , 2 , and three again thanks.


1) If I buy this mega that I am being offered, can I use any keyboard with it?

2) What is the longest chord I can have attatched to the mega?

3) With the Atari Mega can you take OUT the internal harddrive and replace it with a PCM memory card reader? Thereby making the Mega completely quite.


4) What is the PCM card reader you can have with the largest drive for an atari?

5) Ive read about some atari's that have 16 mghz cpu's. Do they stil use the TOS o/s?

6) Are the 8 mghz cpu atari's more rock solid, then the 16 mghz atari's?

7) For the atari mega's that had the " on board clock, optional Floating Point Co-processor (FPU)" what exactly is that?

8) http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/303221001.html <--- could i potentially buy that 520, upgrade it. And it would be no different then an Atari 1040 STE.

9) Just outta curiosity is the atari 1040 ste the atari that is most optimized for running notator? why aren't the megas better?

10) For those who ran cubase, logic , and notator did you really notice that notator was the most solid midi program ?

I appreciate all the info you guys!

Also sorry ahead of time for questioning you on wether to get the atari 1040 ste. I am just trying to get the nicest Atari, memory wise, and Speed, and technical spec wise to run notator <-- which i'm guessing must be the most rock solid midi program out there.
. I just see all thse others ones like someone offering me a mega, and then i read about the memory upgrades so i'm not s ure what to do . wait and buy a 1040 ste, buy the mega and install the PCM card drive, or get the 520 and install the memory upgrade, but i'm not sure if that would make it the same as a 1040 ste. thanks

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

---

10) For those who ran cubase, logic , and notator did you really notice that notator was the most solid midi program ?

---

I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember a magazine - not SOS - proving that to be a myth back in '93 or thereabouts.

--------------------
Nik
Godin, Axon, Tonelab, Repeater & the skin of my teeth!

Quote feline1:

---

I'm just pointing out that your generic handwaving criticisms of timing accuracy on a PC may apply to Windows 3.1 with a Roland MPU401 interface etc etc, but it's not 1994 any more.

MIDI is protocol running at 31kbaud, modern gigahertz PCs (or Macs), with a properly configured OS and modern drivers, can run MIDI perfectly well, you can get interfaces with 16 or 32 output ports, you know! Keep up at the back there...

Although personally, I do most of my sequencing on an Akai MPC4000.

Moreover, the Atari ST was no BBC B ...

Mind you, we have two Sinclair Spectrums running here at Feline HQ...

---

Did they fix it in the last two and a half years? I abandoned Windows PCs for music then for a hardware sequencer. At that time Steinberg and Emagic were both selling MIDI interfaces with special time-stamping technology built in to try to overcome this non-existant timing problem. They failed and both products were withdrawn from the market.

Two years ago I was designing soundcards for Windows PC and even then it was impossible to properly synchronise a MIDI stream with an audio stream down USB 2.0 interfaces. And Microsoft had absolutely zero interest in solving the problem, which is intrinsic to the Windows core.

--------------------
Nik
Godin, Axon, Tonelab, Repeater & the skin of my teeth!

Quote rokuez:

---

Could you please answer like 1 , 2 , and three again thanks.


1) If I buy this mega that I am being offered, can I use any keyboard with it?

---

I'm not sure. Some fixits have been available for using a PC keyboard in the past, and I think they may have been mentioned on Tim's atari MIDI world site (URL in the FAQs) Best check with Barrie at Keychange-he'll know.

Quote:

---

2) What is the longest chord I can have attatched to the mega?

---

see above.

Quote:

---

3) With the Atari Mega can you take OUT the internal harddrive and replace it with a PCM memory card reader? Thereby making the Mega completely quite.

---

Quite probably. I think if you look at the 'From old forum: Zip as main HD' thread, there's some info there.

Quote:

---

4) What is the PCM card reader you can have with the largest drive for an atari?

---

On theory at least a few gig, as folks on here have built up to 5 gig hard drives, and I'm guessing the principle is the same. Anyone know for sure?

Quote:

---

5) Ive read about some atari's that have 16 mghz cpu's. Do they stil use the TOS o/s?

---

Yes.

Quote:

---

6) Are the 8 mghz cpu atari's more rock solid, then the 16 mghz atari's?

---

Not more solid- the 16mHz models arejust rather faster in how they work.

Quote:

---

7) For the atari mega's that had the " on board clock, optional Floating Point Co-processor (FPU)" what exactly is that?

---

Dunno. My Mega STE has an onboard clock that date stamps files. Any other Atari will tend to default files back to some date in 1987, if memeory serves. Back to the future time!

Quote:

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8) http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/303221001.html <--- could i potentially buy that 520, upgrade it. And it would be no different then an Atari 1040 STE.

---

Yes of course-but to save aggro, wait for a fully loaded 4mB one to come up for sale.

Quote:

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9) Just outta curiosity is the atari 1040 ste the atari that is most optimized for running notator? why aren't the megas better?

---

No-they're bhasically all as good at running things. The Mega STE's just a bit faster and has a few more OS tweaks. Nice to have but not essential to get you running.

Quote:

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10) For those who ran cubase, logic , and notator did you really notice that notator was the most solid midi program ?

---

Not really, each one has their fans. I love Notator, but there are folks here who are equally happy with Cubase. Whatever lights you up, works!

Quote:

---

I appreciate all the info you guys!

---

You're very welcome-it's what this forum's all about!


Very best wishes,
Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Edited by David Etheridge (02/04/07 03:42 PM)

Quote rokuez:

---

. I just see all thse others ones like someone offering me a mega, and then i read about the memory upgrades so i'm not s ure what to do . wait and buy a 1040 ste, buy the mega and install the PCM card drive, or get the 520 and install the memory upgrade, but i'm not sure if that would make it the same as a 1040 ste. thanks

---

Hi again Rokuez,
just so you can be sure:
Any STE can be upgraded. I have both 1040 and 520STEs that have been upgraded to 4mB and they're exactly the same-no problems, no differences. Most Megas that come up for sale will have 4mB fitted; the 2.5mB ones have usually by this time all been upgraded to 4meg.
Have a word with Barrie at Keychange on 00-44-1925-823334 and he can advise you all about PCM card readers, silent hard drives and all the rest, and the chances are he'll have everything you need right there and in stcok and can post worldwide- He's a real one stop shop for all Atarians!


(usual disclaimer but without him we'd be well and truly stuffed)



-then grab Notator with all the great features that it has and you're up and away.
By the way, once you've got it, give me a shout if there's anything I can help you with.

Best wishes as always, and thanks to all who posted here on this absorbing discussion.

Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

1) How do I get the latest version of TOS?

2) Barrie at Keychange on 00-44-1925-823334 <--- i tried calling him, but i'm in the usa. is he in the uk? how do you make an international dial , with that kind of number? what do you dial in front of it?

3) http://qaa.ath.cx/vn/standrack1.jpg <--- is a picture of my setup. I'm looking to put the atari in a rack space, where my soundcard is below my desk. I was wondering if i could use the atari with another mouse and keyboard that could reach on top of the yamaha kx88 keyboard.

Is the 1040 STE Atari's keyboard attatched to its main case?

4) I noticed the pics of the atari mega, make it look like the desktop that houses the motherboard is separate from the keyboard and monitor. Would this make it a better rack mounted atari for running notator and cubase?

5) I recalled from a previous post in this thread that you said some of the o/s features of the Atari Mega where additional but not necessary. Do they interfere with the running, timing or anything with notator or cubase. do they cause bugs with those programs or vice versa?

6) Is it worth it going all out and getting a 16 mhz atari?


7) What where the 16 mghz versions just the falcons? Could they run notator and cubase perfectly? Or where they overblown for those programs? I'm kinda confused why the 1040 ste is the best for midi programs, i would assume that 16 mhz would be better especially if using a bunch of outs, and notes. Is my error just assuming newer is better?

8)Does the Unitor 2, Log-3, Combiner midi expansion setup get kind of bulky? I'm just wondering because of how my setup is i may want to go with the atari mega 4, get a long qwerty keyboard cable for to sit atop the kx88.

9) Why have harddrives if u can just use PCM card readers?

10) Does anyone use their atari in a rack situation?

11) Care to post any pics of your atari and how it is placed as a sequencer , in ure other arrangements of gear? Do you work with the atari right in front of you?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Hi Rokuez,

Quote rokuez:

---

1) How do I get the latest version of TOS?

---

TOS2.06 is fitted as standard in the Mega STE, and you can get the TOS chips for fitting to a standard STE. Barrie can tell you more.

Quote:

---

2) Barrie at Keychange on 00-44-1925-823334 <--- i tried calling him, but i'm in the usa. is he in the uk? how do you make an international dial , with that kind of number? what do you dial in front of it?

---

That's the correct international number for you; 00-44 will get you the U.K. over here we dial 01925-823334. Easy!

Quote:

---

3) http://qaa.ath.cx/vn/standrack1.jpg <--- is a picture of my setup. I'm looking to put the atari in a rack space, where my soundcard is below my desk. I was wondering if i could use the atari with another mouse and keyboard that could reach on top of the yamaha kx88 keyboard.

---

Nice setup you have there-I only wish mine was as tidy! Barrie does rackmount kits for the MegaSTE, although you could put it on the desk itself. A Mega STE keyboard would sit on your KX88 fine.

Quote:

---

Is the 1040 STE Atari's keyboard attatched to its main case?

---

Yes, it's an all in one box.

Quote:

---

4) I noticed the pics of the atari mega, make it look like the desktop that houses the motherboard is separate from the keyboard and monitor. Would this make it a better rack mounted atari for running notator and cubase?

---

Correct. The main processor is a seperate unit. It probably makes things easier for rack mounting, although the cartridge port (where you add the MIDI add ons such as Unitor and Log 3) will need some though as to placement. You don't want them hovering in space with no support.

Quote:

---

5) I recalled from a previous post in this thread that you said some of the o/s features of the Atari Mega where additional but not necessary. Do they interfere with the running, timing or anything with notator or cubase. do they cause bugs with those programs or vice versa?

---

No, they won't interfere with any operating, although having TOS 2.06 let's you run accelerator programs like NVDI. There's some controversy with NVDI, as you have to install progs very carefully or the progs won't run correctly. It CAN be done, but I gave up trying, as it all turned out to be too much like PC optimisation. So relax and use the Atari as is and everything should be fine.

Quote:

---

6) Is it worth it going all out and getting a 16 mhz atari?

---

Nice but not essential.

Quote:

---

7) What where the 16 mghz versions just the falcons? Could they run notator and cubase perfectly? Or where they overblown for those programs? I'm kinda confused why the 1040 ste is the best for midi programs, i would assume that 16 mhz would be better especially if using a bunch of outs, and notes. Is my error just assuming newer is better?

---

The Falcon is a very nice machine. However, Atari made a big mistake in not making it fully backwards compatible wth the ST, so a lot of progs won't run on a Falcon. Notator won't, but Logic and Cubase do. Go figure!
I'm not sure that 16mHz is a factor you need to worry about unduly. Because of the stone age (by today's standards) speed, you have to remember that the Atari's only doing one thing-MIDI- at a time, so doubling the speed doesn't make that much difference as far as I can see, certainly not with the MIDI side of things. What you will find is that saving to disk and general housekeeping is rather faster, but that's fine and it won't affect how well the machine actually does what you want it to.

Quote:

---

8)Does the Unitor 2, Log-3, Combiner midi expansion setup get kind of bulky? I'm just wondering because of how my setup is i may want to go with the atari mega 4, get a long qwerty keyboard cable for to sit atop the kx88.

---

No. Unitor anjd Log 3 protrude about 7" to the left of the cartridge port, while Combiner sticks out about 4" at the back from the Modem port (But see the remarks earlier about why Log 3 is a vast improvement on Combiner). Unitor/Log 3 are fiited to the cartridge port on the left hand side of the computer both on the STE and Mega.

Quote:

---

9) Why have harddrives if u can just use PCM card readers?

---

Not sure about this one! Hard drives came first, most Atarians use them, and it's a case of developers making the hardware to fit a card reder to the Atari. I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I don't think that currently there's anyone who would develop an interface, simply because the Atari music market isn't big enough to warrant it. If anone knows different, then let us know here.......

Quote:

---

10) Does anyone use their atari in a rack situation?

---

Barrie would be able to tell you, as he makes the rackmount kits. I preseume that someone must do!

Quote:

---

11) Care to post any pics of your atari and how it is placed as a sequencer , in ure other arrangements of gear? Do you work with the atari right in front of you?

---

I'll try and take a pic of my setup, but basically my STE sits on a table behind my master keyboard, with a Squest drive to the left behind Unitor/Log 3 and the monitor to the right.

Hope this helps,
Best wishes,
Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Hi again Rokuez,

Quote:

---

9) Why have harddrives if u can just use PCM card readers?

---

I've just posted a new link in the FAQ sticky-there's a new project link there for compact flash cards for the ST that looks extremely promising.

Best wishes,
Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

My first atari!





I got 2 keyboards, 2 mouse,



1 color monitor, atari 4 mb mega ste, atari backpack.





The floppy drive is broken on the ste.

Please answer back 1, 2, 3

1.Where can I get a new floppy drive for the ste?

2. Can any of u comment of hybrid arts, any god links about them for info , smpte tracker sequencer. I know it was lacking function wise compared to notator, but

3.when recording a musicians midi was it better at that?

4. How difficult is it to get a Hybrid Arts MidiPlexer?



5. I take it , in this pic I have a Unitor I not a Unitor II. I would need a Unitor II to use it in conjunction with the Log 3 to get the most midi ports correct?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Edited by rokuez (02/11/07 08:25 AM)

Quote rokuez:

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My first atari!


The floppy drive is broken on the ste.

Please answer back 1, 2, 3

1.Where can I get a new floppy drive for the ste?

---

Try Barrie at Keychange (www.keychange.co.uk) who has them in stock and sends worldwide.

Quote:

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2. Can any of u comment of hybrid arts, any god links about them for info , smpte tracker sequencer.

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Look at Tim's Atari MIDIworld; all the info on these progs are there. Note that they won't work with Log 3 and Unitor, although some of them will work with C-lab's Export, which fits in the Modem port on the back of your Atari.

Quote:

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I know it was lacking function wise compared to notator, but

3.when recording a musicians midi was it better at that?

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Not necessarily- all the Atari sequencers are very tight, but simply work in different ways. If you see the sticky on name acts who still use the Atari, you'll find various musos who are/were happy with the programs they used.

Quote:

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4. How difficult is it to get a Hybrid Arts MidiPlexer?

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They seem to be rather rare, but do turn up occasionally. Try Barrie again, or try the Atari MIDI users group on Yahoo. Someone there may well have one for sale.

Quote:

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5. I take it , in this pic I have a Unitor I not a Unitor II. I would need a Unitor II to use it in conjunction with the Log 3 to get the most midi ports correct?

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Yes, so that you don't blow something up in either of them! Unitor 1 works fine with the last version of Notator (3.21) but you'ld have to use an Export rather than Log 3, which isn't as fast as Log 3 itself. This is not a problem with those units, just the nature of the modem port on the Atari.

Welcome to Atari land, and you have a great looking setup there!

Best wishes,

Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

I appreciate the quick feedback Dave. I'm fairly certain that this this Unitor I and Log 3 have already been connected and turned on while plugged into the mega ste

1. Should I be worried?

2. Are they both busted? All three?

3. How do they break when one does that.

4. If they are broken (I hope the Log 3 isn't which one breaks when they are both connected and turned on) how do I fix it?

5. When I try running Notator I get these four bomb icons that pop up. I understand this is in the manual I just haven't had a chance quite yet, sry.

6. Anyone in california LA want to sell me a midiplexer(I already got a smpte tracker dongle), notator manual, smpte tracker manual, vga adapter, or floppy replacement for the mega ste?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

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I appreciate the quick feedback Dave. I'm fairly certain that this this Unitor I and Log 3 have already been connected and turned on while plugged into the mega ste

1. Should I be worried?

---

Not really.

Quote:

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2. Are they both busted? All three?

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I wouldn't think so. If the STE fires up to desktop, then it probably is okay. Now try firing up with JUST the Log 3 and load Notator; if it loads up, it should be fine. Clean the cointacts to the cartridge port and Log 3 and Unitor with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton bud or Q-tip; sometimes the screen will freeze on loadup because of dirty contacts.
Now try booting up with just the Unitor and see if you get into Notator that way. If they boot up fine, nothings' broken. The manual advises NEVER to plug either Log 3 or Unitor in while the Atari is on. Indide them is an epoxied chip that verifies the data, and I'm guessing that a power surge corrupts/erases(?) it. If the worst comes to the worst you'll simply have to get another one (I've seen them very cheap on Ebay, and Barrie's prices are very reasonable).

Quote:

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3. How do they break when one does that.

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See above.

Quote:

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4. If they are broken (I hope the Log 3 isn't which one breaks when they are both connected and turned on) how do I fix it?

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In a word, you can't as far as anyone knows, because the dongle chip is sealed in nuclear bunker style! The folks on the notator users site reckon that there's no-one left in the original company who can remember how it was done!

Quote:

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5. When I try running Notator I get these four bomb icons that pop up. I understand this is in the manual I just haven't had a chance quite yet, sry.

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This is one of those annoying Atari error codes which I can't remember what it signifies. There are details on Tim's Atari MIDIworld somewhere (I think) which says which number of bombs are which. Try e-mailing Barrie and he can probably tell you. Try switching off, wait 30 seconds for the memory to clear, and reboot, and it should go away. Report back if it keeps happening and we'll go from there.

Quote:

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6. Anyone in california LA want to sell me a midiplexer(I already got a smpte tracker dongle), notator manual, smpte tracker manual, vga adapter, or floppy replacement for the mega ste?

---

Try the Notator users site for a manual download -I think someone there's scanned it. Otherwise sign up for the Notator users group (www.notator.org) and see if anyone across the pond can help you with that. The atari MIDI users group you'll find on Tim's site, and there will almost certainly be someone there with the items you want.

Best wishes,

Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Status Update.



I got SMPTE tracker to open and run. The SMPTE tracker bugs me how my floppy drive cannot be accessed but I just press cancel and it drop me into the program. I hook up the hybrid arts dongle by powering it from the keyboard, and using a cable that allows me to plug the dongle into one of the two modem ports.





I cleaned the contacts on the Log 3 and Combiner and when I hook just the Log 3 up to the Atari and ran notator.prg I get these four bomb symbols, and it crashes back to the folder. When I try to run Softlink it says not enough memory and I must click on abort. Please respond back using 1, 2, 3…

1. Any idea why notator is not running?

I’m beginning to think that there are programs starting up that are taking all of the available memory.

2. If this is a good theory how would I check this out and free up memory?

3. Is there anyway to turn up the mouse sensitivity in GEM?

4. The hard drive is quite noisy. I remember reading a thread about a modification that can be done so that you can use a memory card reader, with memory cards in place of the hard drive. Any link to this would be greatly appreciated

5. After I order a floppy drive I’ve heard that some chips can still be bad on the mobo, and they made need replacing. Any idea or link of where to find out more about this?

6. Any idea of where to get a new fan to cut down on noise?

The power socket in the back is a little loose. If when I turn the power switch on the Atari doesn’t power up I must lift the jack because the socket is loose and then the power comes on. I’m also thinking about getting the internal battery on the mobo replaced. This internal battery keeps the correct time.

7. Are there any Atari technicians in Los Angeles? I’m in West LA.


8. Can I just buy a Hi-Res SVGA Adapter from the local electronics store or do I truly need a special adapter from keychange?

I recently got a modem for the Atari.



9. Is it possible to hook up to the Atari to a lan line or a router? Or is the modem the only way to get on the net?



Observe the cable that connects to the back of the modem and then goes to a smaller jack at the end of the wire. This smaller jack is a modem jack. To connect my Hybrid Arts SMPTE tracker dongle up I must use this very same cable and connect it to the modem port on the back of the STE.

10. Is this the only and proper way to connect the SMPTE tracker dongle the a mega ste?

I remember reading that when Notator was used with Expander, which connected to the Atari via the modem jack, there where timing issues. I want to make sure that I’m connecting the dongle to the right jack so that I don’t introduce timing lag.

11. Where does the midiplexer connect to?

12. Can I just use a normal phone line as a keyboard line extension, sense the keyboard uses a phone jack?

As of now I’m currently looking for the following please contact me if you have them and are interested in selling Atari ST Hi-Res SVGA Adapter, Unitor II, Midiplexer for Hybrid Arts SMPTE Tracker, Manuals for Notator, Manuals for SMPTE Tracker, Trackball Mouse, Mouse chord extension, and Keyboard Chord extensions.

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Quote rokuez:

---

Status Update.

I got SMPTE tracker to open and run. The SMPTE tracker bugs me how my floppy drive cannot be accessed but I just press cancel and it drop me into the program. I hook up the hybrid arts dongle by powering it from the keyboard, and using a cable that allows me to plug the dongle into one of the two modem ports.

---

You've been busy! There might be a problem with the SMPTE track dongle, but I'm guessing. Just to rub salt into the wound, SMPTE track is now a free download from Tim's Atari MIDIworld, called Edittrack: three different versions and docs for download.
Try
http://tamw.atari-users.net/editrk.htm

and you'll get the details. Now, when I downloaded it and tried the progs on my mega STE it wouldn't work at all. I think that it doesn't like TOS2.06 which is fitted to mega STEs, so this may (only may) be your problem here.

Quote:

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I cleaned the contacts on the Log 3 and Combiner and when I hook just the Log 3 up to the Atari and ran notator.prg I get these four bomb symbols, and it crashes back to the folder. When I try to run Softlink it says not enough memory and I must click on abort. Please respond back using 1, 2, 3…

1. Any idea why notator is not running?

---

Have a look at see if you have any accesories running. They'll be in the top left hand corner of the screen under the Atari symbol. It's a sad fact that some Notator setups don't like accesories unless installed in a particular fashion.
http://www.notator.org will give more details on this.
Also, have a look at the downloads section and load some anti-virus software, which checks the boot section of the disks. The previous owner might not have done this, so there could be some crap on the disks that prevent proper loading. If in doubt, download the latest version from the Notator website on a new disk and see how that goes.

Quote:

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I’m beginning to think that there are programs starting up that are taking all of the available memory.

2. If this is a good theory how would I check this out and free up memory?

---

This shouldn't be the case. The last version of Notator (3.21) wil run -just- on a 1 meg ST, which is why I suggested checking for accessories that may using using up extra available memory. Softlink should give you a display of available memory; if less than 1 meg then something's up in the memory chips.

Quote:

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3. Is there anyway to turn up the mouse sensitivity in GEM?

---

When you get Notator up and running, you'll find a feature called 'dynamic mouse' that should be what you want.

Quote:

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4. The hard drive is quite noisy. I remember reading a thread about a modification that can be done so that you can use a memory card reader, with memory cards in place of the hard drive. Any link to this would be greatly appreciated

---

Yes, there are spome around, but some of them connect to the cartridge port which you need for the dongles, so that idea's not practical, unfortunately.
I would suggest a Syquest 135MB EZ drive which is silent and only makes a very little noise when writing to disk. I use mine all the time and it's wonderful. You can get EZ drives very cheaply on ebay, and Barrie can supply the connectors and software to run it with.

Quote:

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5. After I order a floppy drive I’ve heard that some chips can still be bad on the mobo, and they made need replacing. Any idea or link of where to find out more about this?

---

Barrie again, he knows all about this stuff.

Quote:

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6. Any idea of where to get a new fan to cut down on noise?

---

Barrie again.

Quote:

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The power socket in the back is a little loose. If when I turn the power switch on the Atari doesn’t power up I must lift the jack because the socket is loose and then the power comes on. I’m also thinking about getting the internal battery on the mobo replaced. This internal battery keeps the correct time.

---

Gte the power socket sorted, as any internal arcing can damage the bits inside. A decent tech should be able to change the battery for you, as it's only a coin type battery. You may even be able to do it yourself if you're technically minded.

Quote:

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7. Are there any Atari technicians in Los Angeles? I’m in West LA.

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Try asking on Tim's site -he'll know most of the Atari guys in the U.S.

Quote:

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8. Can I just buy a Hi-Res SVGA Adapter from the local electronics store or do I truly need a special adapter from keychange?

---

I very much doubt the former, as the Atari market is miniscule and probably not worth the trouble. Barrie does them and they're fail-proof in my experience. You may find someone in the U.S who makes them-ask on Tim's site.

Quote:

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I recently got a modem for the Atari.
9. Is it possible to hook up to the Atari to a lan line or a router? Or is the modem the only way to get on the net?

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I beleive that some folks have linked their Ataris on networks to both Macs and PCs in the past. Look on the Atari launchpad site, which should have details of web browsers for Ataris. Mind you, the info will be fairly selective -you won't get cosmic colour grphics into a 4 meg machine without a lot of clunking!
Go to:
http://gem.win.co.nz/hall/
for the full details.

Quote:

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Observe the cable that connects to the back of the modem and then goes to a smaller jack at the end of the wire. This smaller jack is a modem jack. To connect my Hybrid Arts SMPTE tracker dongle up I must use this very same cable and connect it to the modem port on the back of the STE.

10. Is this the only and proper way to connect the SMPTE tracker dongle the a mega ste?

---

Probably, but keep in mind my earlier comments about STE compatibility.

Quote:

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I remember reading that when Notator was used with Expander, which connected to the Atari via the modem jack, there where timing issues. I want to make sure that I’m connecting the dongle to the right jack so that I don’t introduce timing lag.

---

Export goes into the modem port and offers three independent MIDI outs. Unfortunately, because of the speed rate of the Atari modem, only the first of the three ports will give you accurate timing. That's not to say that the others won't work at all, it's just that they won't be able to hack drum parts with lots of 16th notes and stay in time. Things will be simply happening to fast to send down the MIDI pipeline via the modem port. In fact the Notator manual suggests not using the Export ports C and D 'for time dependent material' (their words). Log 3 replaces Export and solves this at a stroke.

Quote:

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11. Where does the midiplexer connect to?
12. Can I just use a normal phone line as a keyboard line extension, sense the keyboard uses a phone jack?

---

I'm afraid that's outside my experience so I don't know. Barrie might be the guy to answer that.


Phew! now you can go and have a cup of something refreshing


Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

I just cleaned off the atari mega ste with simple green. It was pretty grimey I had to get in there with Q Tips etc. Check the original image at the top of this thread to see the before pic w/o the simple green. Here is the after image.



I also got in contact with The Ox that Rocks who has replaced his mega ste's fan with one that runs at a lower noise level. I still have to get the correct model number from him and then I will order that. He says his mega ste is completly silent!


I just changed the floppy pins from DS1 to DS0. Thanks protek!

1. Can you please verify that my other jumper settings are correct?

http://www.freewebs.com/computolio/SMD340.TXT .

I have

JUMPER BETWEEN 4 & 5 | MODE IS SWITCHED BY INTERNAL SENSOR (DEFAULT

&

JUMPER BETWEEN 2 & 3 | 2M MODE IS SET BY HDI = LOW (DEFAULT)


Now When I boot up with the Atari the light comes on for the floppy drive and then after a bit it recognzies the HD. It sounds like it is checking the drive for a floppy drive.

2. Is this normal?

Before I used to have to hit escape so that it would stop checking the old broken floppy drive.

After it boots up the screen reads

Unit 0 is Seagate

Unit 1 is not responding

3. Unit 1 refers to another HD not the floppy?

Now when I test the floppy drive with some old floppy formated from XP it reads




4. Does anyone have links for software so that I can format a floppy and finally get some things over to the atari from the net. I would really prefer some software that can format a floppy on win XP for an atari.


Current setup




I'm thinking about getting PEST so that I can use a USB mouse.

5. Are there any other options or DIY links?

I miss the look of the old floppy face plate.




I tried to fit it on but it wouldn't go.

6. will Armorall help out the atari mega ste at all ?

7. Where can I get the tos 2.06 chips? Do I just pop them in, or do I have to set jumpers / solder?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Hi again Rokuez,
you've been busy!

Quote rokuez:

---

1. Can you please verify that my other jumper settings are correct?

http://www.freewebs.com/computolio/SMD340.TXT .

I have

JUMPER BETWEEN 4 & 5 | MODE IS SWITCHED BY INTERNAL SENSOR (DEFAULT

&

JUMPER BETWEEN 2 & 3 | 2M MODE IS SET BY HDI = LOW (DEFAULT)

---

I notice that the site you quote is actually about settings for Amiga and not Atari, so be careful. If everything's working as it should, fine. Mind you I know nothing about jumpers and all the electronics bit inside. I just know which buttons to press on the top!
I would suggest again checking with Barrie on this -he'll know.

Quote:

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Now When I boot up with the Atari the light comes on for the floppy drive and then after a bit it recognzies the HD. It sounds like it is checking the drive for a floppy drive.

2. Is this normal?

---

Yes. With TOS 2.06 as fitted to the Mega STE it boots from the hard drive right away. With some earlier versions of TOS you need a floppy disk with the right progs on it like coldboot, where you press the rest button on the back, and it then boots from the hard drive.
Have you gor any progs like HDutility? This will allow you to check your STE for fitted hard drives and allow you to format and partition them.

Quote:

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Before I used to have to hit escape so that it would stop checking the old broken floppy drive.

---

Then I would suggest getting a replacement drive.

Quote:

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After it boots up the screen reads

Unit 0 is Seagate

Unit 1 is not responding

3. Unit 1 refers to another HD not the floppy?

---

Could well be, unless the previous owner had an external SCSI (or in this case ACSI) drive connected. As a guess (and it is only a guess) I'd say there's some data on your internal hard drive from the previous setup. As that previous hard drives not there any more, it's still trying to find it, hence the 'not responding' message.

Quote:

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Now when I test the floppy drive with some old floppy formated from XP it reads

---

The 'not responding' message probably means that the floppy drive is shot. If you've formatted the disks on your PC as DOS the Atari will read them fine -you don'ty have to format them seperately.
Even so, there is a prog called DFormat (which I think is on the Atari Launchpad site) that can format floppies with a PC boot file and Apple File Exchange for Macs, if you need to do that.

Quote:

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4. Does anyone have links for software so that I can format a floppy and finally get some things over to the atari from the net. I would really prefer some software that can format a floppy on win XP for an atari.

---

See above -you shouldn't need this.

Quote:

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Current setup

I'm thinking about getting PEST so that I can use a USB mouse.

5. Are there any other options or DIY links?

---

Have a look at the FAQ sticky at the top of the Atari forum here -the atari users forum will give you info on lots of hotrods and mods if you're that way inclined.

Quote:

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I miss the look of the old floppy face plate.
I tried to fit it on but it wouldn't go.

---

I think you'll find that most replacament drives need you to saw the little loop out of the drive hole (bottom right on the aperture, and common practice with replacement floppy drives). This was where the eject button used to stick out, and that's why your drive plate won't go. While floppy drives from other manufacturers other than Atari can be used, the eject buttons slightly different, so that's why you end up having to carve the casing a bit.

Quote:

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6. will Armorall help out the atari mega ste at all ?

---

It's just a plastic cleaning/polishing solution, so it'll just add a shine to the casing. Don't get it inside the works, however.

Quote:

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7. Where can I get the tos 2.06 chips? Do I just pop them in, or do I have to set jumpers / solder?

---

If you have a Mega STE, you already have TOS 2.06. No problem.

Otherwise, I notice from the pics that you appear to have a colour screen. If this is the case you're running in medium resolution and some Atari progs don't like this at all, being designed to work in mono (black and white -it uses less memory).
So you might want to consider a VGA or SVGA monitor and adaptor lead. The results are infinitely better.

Best wishes,

Dave.

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

SatanDisk

NETUS-Bee - Ethernet & USB expansion card

Using Compact Flash or SD for Atari storage


NCGM

--------------------
Footloose and fancy free...gizz a job!

Many thanks NCGM!

--------------------
Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

Thanks Neo-Classical Guitar Man. I believe I've found a solution for the loud Mega STE fan with the help of The Ox that Rocks. He recomended http://www.papst.de . Once there go to the top right hand corner and click on english. Now in the menu click on Products then compact fans. Finally click Go to Products for the Axial compact fans & select your dimenion(s).

I've been doing some thinking about storage mediums. CF Card, Satandisk, HD, & Paskud. Are there any I missed?

1. I've read someone comment that you can only write to a cf card 1,000 times?

2. I've read that Satandisk is slow?

3. What is the fastest to slowest? CF, HD, Paskud, Satandisk??

4. A CF Card works by IDE to cf... cf what exact? I know of model No. STCI4402, then what you connect a card reader? if so which one?

5. I'm trying to setup a notator rig should I just go with a HD sense i'm going to have a very silent fan? Is a good megaste HD fairly reliable and silent? Not an original granted. A HD will make sounds when writting i.e saving/loading only?

6. Any specific recomendations for atari mega STE hd's?

--------------------
E-mu Emulator Forum www.eiiiforum.com

Edited by rokuez (30/11/07 07:59 AM)