Main Forums >> DIY, Electronics, Studio Design & Acoustics
        Print Thread

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
New Control Room Construction
      #447882 - 16/04/07 02:55 PM
I have been building a new control room and iso room for my basement studio now for the last 25 years (well, it just seems that way!).

We tend to see a lot of threads on "big" studios, but thought I'd post something that us "home" guys could relate to.

I have finally given up and hired a contractor since there never seems to be enough time in the day to get things done. Once these rooms are done, I am also going to re-do the live room, so there is a lot of work ahead of me!

Here is a **basic** sketch of the plans. These drawings show some *REALLY* splayed walls in the control room, but this is no longer in the plans. Also, some of the dimensions have changed, although when I resized the drawing to fit on the screen for the forum post, it is pretty hard to read the numbers anyway.




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447890 - 16/04/07 03:17 PM
This project has its share of "issues" as do all projects like this. One of the biggest issues that I have had to deal with is the existing HVAC ductwork. The existing ductwork needed to be accommodated, so some interesting compromises existed.

Here is quick pic of the existing ductwork which you can see at the top left of the pic:





This ductwork extends down about 6" or so below the floor joists, and makes the construction of a ceiling a bit challenging. I do not want to lose that 6" all the way across the room, so I decided pretty early on that I needed to frame in the ductwork so that the ceiling would be lower in the front part of the room. Here is another of my famous "quick sketches" of what I am planning for the ceiling. This picture is a side view of the room with the floor at the bottom, and the ceiling at the top. The red line at the top is the proposed plan for the new ceiling.




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447895 - 16/04/07 03:21 PM
The first thing I did was to frame in the studio-to-live room window:




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447901 - 16/04/07 03:33 PM
Next came the floor.

After doing a lot of reading and researching, I decided *NOT* to float the floor. From what I understand, if you incorrectly float the floor, it is worse than not floating it at all. I decided therefore that I would create a solid floor, and fill the area in-between the floor joists with sand to make the *VERY* solid.

This was not an easy task in a basement since it involved hauling a couple of thousand pounds of sand down to the basement in bags, 50 lbs at at time!!! Ouch, my aching back!

The first step was to line the cement floor with a vapor barrier. I used 6 mil plastic sheeting as the barrier, and sealed the seams between sheets with silicone. I then shot nails through the floor joists into the cement floor. All the floor boards are treated wood.





Next, came the sand:




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447903 - 16/04/07 03:47 PM
The next step was to install the sub floor. I chose 2 layers of 3/4" plywood as I really wanted this sucker to be sturdy. I sealed each seam with silicone.



--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447908 - 16/04/07 03:53 PM
The next thing I needed to do was to install the HVAC ducts for the control room. I installed 2 exhausts and 1 return. I cut into the top of the existing ductwork from my post above, and installed the sheetmetal joints. I don't have any pics of this part yet, sorry. I will try to get some shots of it when I next get down there with the camera.


After reaching this step... Things came to a GRINDING HALT! I took a new position with my job (same company, new position) that had me soooo busy with training and learning the new job, that things stayed in this state for about 2 months.

That is when I hired the contractor!!! As of this morning, things are finally moving forward again!

As we speak, they are down there sawing and hammering their little hearts out getting the framing done. Should be complete by tomorrow, and I will post some more pics.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #447916 - 16/04/07 04:02 PM
My God! This has been going on for ages! I remember when you first started posting about the rebuild, Eric didn't have bits of carpet between his teeth, Max had a beard and I was still a flaxen-haired youth in my prime.

New job - that explains it!

Anyway, a word of warning, stress to your contractors that they must not join things up, just because it seems like a good idea. Almost every studio build I have ever come across, some chippy sees two window frames that are separate and decides that things would be far better with a bit of cross-bracing and BANG goes your separation!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehernia]
      #447953 - 16/04/07 05:14 PM
Quote Not that fool again!:

Anyway, a word of warning, stress to your contractors that they must not join things up, just because it seems like a good idea. Almost every studio build I have ever come across, some chippy sees two window frames that are separate and decides that things would be far better with a bit of cross-bracing and BANG goes your separation!





It is funny that you mention that since I have really had to stress this point to them. So far, they have followed my rules and plans to the "t", but have asked me a few times if a couple of nails here and there would hurt anything. Of course I replied "YES"! I told them that only a *single point* of contact anywhere in the construction ruins the entire isolation. They are listening to me, but are shaking their heads. I am sure they think I am being overly paranoid, which is fine. As long as I am paying them, I can be as paranoid as I feel fit!

As an update, they have made pretty decent progress in a single day, and are probably 75% done with the control room framing, and it is only 1:15 in the afternoon. It is looking pretty cool!

I'll take some more pics this evening and post them.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #448079 - 16/04/07 08:12 PM
OK, here are a few pictures from todays framing work...

In this first picture, you can barely make out the door frame to the right.







In this second picture, you can see how we framed in the HVAC ductwork at the top of the picture. The bulkhead is a pair of 2x8's, which should be plenty to support the drywall. You can also see how they added the inner wall and the second widow frame. There is about a 6 inch gap between the walls.







In this third picture, you can see a closer shot of how we framed the HVAC ductwork. Those ceiling joists are only there to support the drywall as everything is free-floating. Therefore we made them 24" on center rather than 16".







This last picture of the set is intended to show the parallel walls, but it is not really all that clear. As mentioned, there is about a 6" gap between the walls all the way around, and no part of the new walls are touching any of the existing structure. ("Room-within-a-room" design)





--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #448095 - 16/04/07 08:35 PM
Next Steps:

The contractors *were* going to construct the walls for the iso room tomorrow, but as it turns out, it would be best if they waited for a few weeks so I can get some of the wiring, insulation and drywall work done.

They are scheduled to come back in 3 weeks (March 7th) to hang the 3 doors, frame out the iso room, and create the window frame.

In the mean time, I have custom ordered two of the doors, which means 14 days until they arrive.

So during this three week period, I am going to install all the audio cables (tons of soldering), jacks and wall plates, all the electrical wiring and circuits need to be installed, and then comes the fun part with the insulation and drywall.

If I can get all that done in 3 weeks, I will be pretty happy!

I have an electrician scheduled to come out this week to install all the electrical wiring. I already have a dedicated 20 amp circuit setup in the live room, but I plan on adding three more 20 amp dedicated circuits:

1) Control room equipment
2) Iso room plugs (amps, etc.)
3) Lights

That should give me *more* than enough juice.

More to follow...

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1167
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #448204 - 17/04/07 03:04 AM
Very cool Doublehelix. I have actually been to his studio folks, or I should say the old studio. It's about time you got rid of all that junk in the storage room which is now your control room. I am very happy for you mate.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #448211 - 17/04/07 07:09 AM
Tip for James:

Put the audio cabling in a duct that you can open all the way around and have separate ducts for audio and digital stuff. Leave loads of space for future ducts that you might wish to add. (Though I' sure you knew all that anyway, but it's always worth mentioning!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehernia]
      #448349 - 17/04/07 11:24 AM
Quote Not that fool again!:

Put the audio cabling in a duct that you can open all the way around and have separate ducts for audio and digital stuff. Leave loads of space for future ducts that you might wish to add. (Though I' sure you knew all that anyway, but it's always worth mentioning!)





Thanks for the tips, and yes, I have a pretty good plan for that I hope, but every best laid plan seems to always show flaws in retrospect, so keep the suggestions coming!

I also have plans for a hollow conduit with small spring-loaded doors and insulation plugs into the iso room for things like Leslie cables, or something odd that does not fit the plan.

All my XLR panel mount plugs are all going to be converted to the Neutrik combo plugs (XLR *or* TRS) which is much more flexible obviously. I have instrument lines, speaker lines, midi lines and lots of Cat5 lines built into the plan, plus of course all the combo balanced plugs mentioned above.

And as you suggest, each "type" of line will be in its own conduit, and well sealed. I am also making sure that all of the electrical lines are well away from the audio lines.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #448376 - 17/04/07 12:19 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

. . . so keep the suggestions coming!





Lots of cold air for the machine room!

Space in the MR for guest rigs?

Tie lines to other places and spaces?

Guitar amp iso boxes?

err, that's it for now!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehernia]
      #448412 - 17/04/07 01:19 PM
Quote Not that fool again!:


Lots of cold air for the machine room!




Yep!


Quote:

Space in the MR for guest rigs?





This is my home studio, no guests allowed!!!


Quote:

Tie lines to other places and spaces?





EVERYWHERE!!! Hehe... actually, a bit of overkill, but ya never know, right? I am even fully wiring the air lock in case it gets called into use (scratch vocalist/guitar amp???).

There are tie lines of every format going from everywhere to everywhere!



Quote:

Guitar amp iso boxes?






Naw, haven't crossed that bridge, and probably won't for a while. I haven't found the need for one so far, but ya never know! I can always build one later if I feel the need.

The iso room is really being designed more for amps than anything else. I have no need to isolate an amp in most cases. There are times where there are multiple guitarists going at the same time, and I have run amps upstairs when I really need to separate 2 guitars.

My only slight concern is when I am miking a bass amp rather than going direct. If I use the iso room for the bass amp, I would probably have to employ the air lock for a guitar amp and put the scratch vocalist in the CR with me. Not ideal, but workable.



Quote:

err, that's it for now!




Good stuff man, keep 'em coming! Thanks!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #450652 - 22/04/07 04:01 PM
UPDATE:

The electrician came a few days ago and we mapped out the plan for the electrical layout. As it turns out, it is more complicated than I thought, but that is OK... I'd rather have it done right the first time.

I am going to do the basic wiring, and then he is going to tie together all the ends.

One issue that came up was trying to get junction and switch boxes that are deep enough to protrude through two layers of 5/8" sheet rock, and still be able to firmly attach to the wall studs. I was able to find some that fit the bill just perfectly, but they are a bit pricey, and I needed 30 of them!!!

I am still trying to find a solution for the wall boxes for the lights however.

Also, all the audio cable, connectors, and wall panels will arrive tomorrow, so this next week is going to be a wiring and soldering week. Yuck! I am so sick of soldering, and I have got about 5 million solder points to do in the next 3-4 days.

I'll post some more pics later this week as I get things going.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1167
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #450752 - 22/04/07 09:18 PM
Have you considered a new circuit breaker in your elecrical box for the room?

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #450822 - 23/04/07 07:49 AM
James, you might concider adding 'blank' electric cables that are marked at both ends for future installations like additional lights.

Also possibly, limited tie lines to rooms in the house.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #450954 - 23/04/07 12:44 PM
Quote Glenn Bucci:

Have you considered a new circuit breaker in your elecrical box for the room?






From an earlier post:



Quote Doublehelix:

I have an electrician scheduled to come out this week to install all the electrical wiring. I already have a dedicated 20 amp circuit setup in the live room, but I plan on adding three more 20 amp dedicated circuits:

1) Control room equipment
2) Iso room plugs (amps, etc.)
3) Lights

That should give me *more* than enough juice.




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehernia]
      #450956 - 23/04/07 12:51 PM
Quote Not that fool again!:

James, you might concider adding 'blank' electric cables that are marked at both ends for future installations like additional lights.






Hmmmm.... I see where you are going with this, but they would end up being buried by the sheetrock, so how will I remember that they are there in the future? Also, how would I decide on where to run them?

Fishing cable later is not my cuppa, so I think it is a great idea on the surface, but not sure how it would work out in the implementation.


Quote:


Also possibly, limited tie lines to rooms in the house.






Now this is a GREAT idea! I hadn't thought of that, but this is amazing! Thanks!

I can see myself needing a couple of mic lines in case I want to mic a guitar cabinet with 2 mics, and then a third balanced XLR line for the guitar signal (cable extenders convert the instrument signal to line level signal), so I am guessing a 4-pair ought to suffice with Neutrik combo jacks.

Thanks for the great suggestions! Really helpful!


EDIT: HEY!!! This was my 2,500th post! It's almost like a birthday or something!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Edited by Doublehelix (23/04/07 12:54 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #451311 - 24/04/07 07:26 AM
Well congratulations James (I think!)

I do not mean that you should have to go fishing for cable in years to come, what I meant was that if you are running say three cables to a set of lights, throw in another two that are just blank and marked at both ends. Then, later, when the neons are just not right, you can quickly and easily add two circuits of indirect lighting - or whatever rocks your boat.

Same goes for AC, heating and anything else knocking around. Installation cable is cheap, but adding circuits after the event is not!

Tie-lines - what about computers? At least a network cable so that you can work on an edit or be exporting files and rubbish like that whilst watch television in the evening.

That’s it for now, though I’m sure I’ll think of more.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehernia]
      #451379 - 24/04/07 10:41 AM
Quote Not that fool again!:


I do not mean that you should have to go fishing for cable in years to come, what I meant was that if you are running say three cables to a set of lights, throw in another two that are just blank and marked at both ends. Then, later, when the neons are just not right, you can quickly and easily add two circuits of indirect lighting - or whatever rocks your boat.





Makes better sense now, and is a good idea.

I was actually down there last night installing junction boxes and doing some wiring, and it is a real pain even without insulation and sheet rock!


Quote Not that fool again!:

Tie-lines - what about computers? At least a network cable so that you can work on an edit or be exporting files and rubbish like that whilst watch television in the evening.





I actually already have network cabling throughout the house. I wired the whole place back in the days before wireless! I have Cat5 tie lines going to all 3 floors of the structure, so I am already covered there.

Quote Not that fool again!:

That’s it for now, though I’m sure I’ll think of more.




Keep 'em coming! Thanks!


By the way... "Who are you???" You know me by name, but I am not sure that I know who you are. Did you change your alias from something else??? I feel like I should know who you are, but as old age sets in, the first thing to go is the mind...

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 8999
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #451595 - 24/04/07 05:20 PM
think Scotland


think grumpy. (occasionally, sometimes also Brusque, Pessimistic and Blunt.... )


Then don't refer to it again.... just enjoy.

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Studio Support Gnome]
      #451686 - 24/04/07 09:14 PM
Quote Max The Mac (C.S.I.):

think Scotland


think grumpy. (occasionally, sometimes also Brusque, Pessimistic and Blunt.... )





Ahhh!!! Got it!!! Say no more! Good clues!


Quote:

Then don't refer to it again.... just enjoy.





Refer to what??? I have no idea what you are talking about...



--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #451952 - 25/04/07 12:51 PM
Over the last few days, we have made a lot of progress, even though *visually* things don't look that different.

We have been wrapping and insulating the HVAC ductwork and copper plumbing... the copper pipe wrap is more to prevent condensation than anything else...

The electrical wiring is also almost complete, although I am still struggling to spec out the appropriate lighting fixtures (I have another active thread going on that one if anyone wants to add something...).

Here are a couple of closeup pics showing the junction boxes that I needed to use so that they would stick out through the drywall enough to be able to layer 2 sheets of 5/8" drywall. For those of you who are "math challenged", This means that 1 1/4" of the box needs to stick out past the edge of the wall stud. These boxes are *really* deep, and have screw mounting holes on the sides instead of nails.

As it turns out, these boxes are harder to find than I thought, and a bit of a pain to install. They have a small metal tab on one of the corners that does not allow the box to mount flush to the wall stud when using the 1 1/4" overhang So for each box, I had to route out a small notch of the stud in order to get the box to mount flush. You can barely see it at the bottom of the second picture.






Next up...

Audio cables (solder-city) and finish the HVAC ductwork, and somehow spec out the lighting fixtures.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #452183 - 25/04/07 10:40 PM
Here is a question that I just thought of based on a comment Max made about compromising the integrity of the sound proofing layer:

Should I be using surface-mount wall plug junction boxes rather than having them mounted to the studs and sticking through the dry wall??? This would apply to lighting switches and light mounting schemes as well.

I am all of a sudden concerned that I am going to be creating HUGE holes in my soundproofing using the method I am currently using.

HELP!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 8999
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #452225 - 26/04/07 01:05 AM
let me put it like this.


I'm in the process of building my new place, having moved late last year.


ALL my electric services are surface mounted. there's just one cable inlet in each room, where the main power supply enters the building.. and where it's parallel enters the workshop/live area. I'm routing data and audio cables thru the discretely hidden ventilation system .

All services are trunked on the surface, but it will be arranged so that it's all hidden behind acoustic treatment devices, except where unavoidable, or desired.

absolute bare minimum diameter holes, JUST big enough to pass a cable/cable bundle through... No holes in straight lines between rooms.... and all sealed up tighter than a duck's nether regions...

each build is unique , and there are a range of techniques that are available to the designer... and it's applying those techniques in the most effective manner, that really decides how the end result will perform....

it's attention to detail.....


the larger the holes and the larger the number of holes you cut in your sheet rock, the greater the risk of it seriously adversely affecting the performance of your walls.

there ARE fire and acoustic rated hoods and rear assemblies , but it's simpler, and more cost effective in most cases, to simply not cut those holes in the first place. Especially as many of those "acoustic rated" hoods, really aren't much use.... there's a WORLD of difference between what we studio denizens consider effective, and what domestic installers consider effective...

a little common sense, and some devious planning , making the space and acoustic control devices work FOR you in terms of aesthetic concealment , and tasteful mountings is all that's really required....



When pondering how it's done, in "LARGE" establishments...... where all these nice brass switch plates are set in to the wall, you need to remember that the wall you see is usually NOT the soundproofing...


in smaller places, like yours , and mine ( no offence intended) other techniques need to be used.


Max

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #452230 - 26/04/07 01:27 AM
Damn you for being so right!!!

I was thinking about your comments on the lights, and all of a sudden it hit me that I am going to be cutting a bunch of holes in the sheetrock to run both electrical *and* audio lines.

I also remembered Rod's words in his book about even a small gap at the bottom of the sheetrock by the floor that goes unsealed is the same as making a 6 inch hole in your wall.

Your comments make a *lot* of sense, and I think I am going to have to take a step or two back and rethink a lot of the wiring issues.

A true thank you Max, your words are truly words of wisdom (you must have heard them from someone else!!! ).

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 8999
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #452267 - 26/04/07 08:17 AM
mate, that's WHY people pay me to do their studios for them.



Max

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Chris Poulter
new member


Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Petersfield
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Studio Support Gnome]
      #452322 - 26/04/07 10:13 AM
Do you have enough height to put in a suspended ceiling? I've just put one in to use as a huge basstrap and it makes stuff like lighting much easier....

You don't need that much extra space - would have though 6" is enough to get what you need in. Plus you can stuff it with rockwool for extra trapping like I did.

Chris

--------------------
Freelance Producer / Engineer | www.hernestudios.co.uk | FREE Listening sessions - see www.thelisteninggroup.org


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Chris Poulter]
      #452352 - 26/04/07 11:13 AM
Hey Chris:

I am severely cramped for ceiling space, so a suspended ceiling won't work for me. I am using a resilient channel design instead which allows me to keep most of my ceiling height.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Blue Lizard
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cleethorpes, UK
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #452480 - 26/04/07 02:53 PM
+1 on the surface-mounting option; my room is walled with double-plasterboard/barrier-mat sandwich on resilient bars (even my studs are on neoprene, and the res-bars screwed through neoprene pads to the studs!) and I used trunking and surface mount boxes (MK) for all my electrics and lightswitches ( pic ). Looks very neat

You'll need some double-length cavity fixings to secure the boxes, and just make sure you mark where your studs are... you don't want a cavity fixing to connect with one and scupper the isolation of your inner wall.

--------------------
"It's not pretty, also you can't dance to it." - Frank Zappa
www.bluelizardstudio.com

Edited by Blue Lizard (26/04/07 02:58 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #455843 - 03/05/07 01:34 PM
Well, I haven't updated this for a while, so I thought I'd give an update.

Have been busy wiring (both electrical and audio) which should be done by this weekend. (I hate soldering)

I have opted to go for PUTTY PADS which are a fire stopping product that wraps around the backside of the electrical boxes. Apparently they are awesome at stopping sound transmission through the all boxes. Maybe not as good as surface mounts as Max suggests, but nonetheless, I have decided to go this route. It is on order, and should be here today or tomorrow.

I have also completed installation and insulated all of the HVAC ductwork, which was a total pain. I am glad that part of the job is done!

The contractor is due back on Monday to finish framing out the iso room and the air lock, as well as widening the existing air lock door frame from 32" to 36" in anticipation of the custom doors that still have not arrived!!!

Starting next week, the wall construction begins in earnest.

I have on order:

-3 cases of Green Glue
-2 cases of acoustic caulk (OSI SC-175)
-Backer rod
-Putty Pads for the electrical boxes as above
-Lights

Unfortunately, the local vendor where I previously bought my Owens Corning 703 rigid fiberglass no longer deals in OC products. Dang! They are now almost exclusively a Johns Manville Dealer. They are offering this product as a replacement to the OC 703:

SPIN-GLAS

Has anyone had a chance to use this stuff, and can you comment on it?

More pics coming after this weekend!

Thanks!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #469238 - 04/06/07 08:53 PM
Well, it has been a month since I updated this thread, so I thought it was time to post *something* so you don't all think I am a *total* slacker!!!

Since my last post, all my doors are in, and all the wall materials are in (4 cases of Green Glue --I needed 4 instead of three, acoustic caulk, backer rod, putty packs, etc.).

I have also finally finished all the electrical wiring!!! Woo-hoo!!! What a pain in the rear! Since all of my lighting is going to be surface-mount, I had to wire each lighting fixture with a dedicated lead rather than daisy-chaining them together. All told, I used over 500 feet of 12/2 wire for the three rooms!!!

I am almost done with the audio wiring, which seems like is taking forever!

All of the HVAC is now complete, including a whole new fresh air return for the live room.

As soon as the audio wiring is complete (later this week), we will begin the process of insulating, and then FINALLY, the drywalling!

I will try to post pics as these things develop, but the last few weeks have been very hectic, with a week-long holiday, plus planning a graduation for my son, etc. Hopefully, we can pick up the pace again now!

Anyway, here are some more pics:



New ductwork with extensions to stick down through the 2 layers of drywall (There will be 2 exhausts and a single cold-air return in the control room):






Control Room cold air return:






This shows some of the insulation on the existing ductwork:






Here is the new cold air return for the live room:





Wiring, wiring, everywhere!




Here are a couple of the boxes that I made for my audio wiring bays. I have a couple of other large "square" boxes that I made as well. All of the other audio wiring will terminate in "standard" wall plates.



--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehernia



Joined: 24/08/06
Posts: 565
Loc: omotion (come on, do the Loco...
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #469239 - 04/06/07 09:03 PM
Just don't give yourself a double hernia!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #496698 - 05/08/07 02:49 PM
OK, I know it has been a while since I have updated this thread, and I apologize. I have been busy with several remodeling projects at the same time, plus the "real job", the wife and kids, etc., so it seems as if the studio is always pushed to the bottom of the list.

Most of the recent work has been involving wiring anyway, which is not very exciting to photograph!

Anyway, the wiring is done (except for one wire that I did not plan for, and I needed to order some more as I was short, and a few more putty pads that are also on order), and we have moved into the insulation phase, with drywall to follow this coming week.

Here are a few pics:



This picture shows some of the wiring. Notice the area where the audio cables are in close proximity to the electrical cables. This is the one are in the entire project that has this "problem", and I am a bit worried about it. (I have a whole other thread on this topic going here). There is about 6 inches of space between the wires (the same gap as the wall gap). You can also see some of the putty pad work on the wall boxes.









Here is another wiring pic. As you can see, I have run out of putty pads, and have more on order. Should arrive in a day or so. The red arrow is pointing to an additional ground wire that I have installed on the studio wall plugs as a star grounding system (isolated ground). This wire is in *addition* to the normal ground wire in the electrical cable. I used a 12 ga. THHN wire from all of the receptacles that are then tied together at a separate ground panel, and then finally tied into the main ground. (Thanks to Rod's book for the drawings.) I also added another copper ground stake that is driven 8 feet into the ground out in the yard, and tied this into the breaker panel. The existing wiring was grounded to the copper water pipes in the structure, and I wanted to have things more firmly grounded than that.







This pic shows the resilient channel that I had to use on the ceiling on the back half of the control room ceiling. This is the only part of the construction that is not free-floating, but I really needed the ceiling space, so I opted to go with resilient channel for this one area.








This shot shows some of the insulation work that has begun:









More insulation:









This shot shows one of the Cat6 headphone stations, and is a pretty good shot of the putty pads.









The insulation will be completed this weekend except for those areas that still need putty pads and the one area for the new wire that I have on order.

Then we finally move onto drywall!!! Yipeeee!!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #501080 - 13/08/07 12:16 PM
Another small progress report, and a few more pics. It seems like we are working so hard, but the progress is not as quick as I would like it... Such is life.

We added a few more audio wires and finished all the putty pad work, then it was off to "insulation hell" for a couple of days. I hate insulating, let me tell you! Anyway, these few rooms are quite well insulated! I have insulation stuffed anywhere and everywhere, it is probably a bit of overkill in a few areas, but I am thinking that it is better to have too much rather than too little, eh?

Anyway, here are a few pics:




This first picture shows the outside wall filled with insulation, and the inside wall still just bare studs:







One of the side walls:







In this picture, insulation has been added to the inside wall:








More insulation! (Did I mention that I hate insulation?)







Here you can see the other side of the control room, with the door opening just visible on the left:







Here is the ceiling with resilient channel on the back half of the CR:







Here is the a closeup of the window frame so far:







And now the window frame with an insulating layer of neoprene rubber around the inside:







Here is the airlock. The door opening to the left leads to the control room, the door opening to the right leads to the iso room.






Believe it not, we are ready for drywall! I have been saying that for about 6 years, but we are actually going to begin with the drywall as the very next step. Wish us luck!!!

We are gonna need it!



--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #502072 - 14/08/07 08:52 PM
Look at this picture of the layout of my resilient channel on the ceiling.

While doing some reading on resilient channel use, it seems pretty important to make sure that the drywall screws do not go into the wall (or ceiling) studs.

Did I install the RC in the wrong direction? Should I have hung the RC so that it is arrayed perpendicularly to the support boards (parallel to the floor joists) rather than the way I have them now? Will that be strong enough?

See the pic below:




--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #502700 - 15/08/07 10:26 PM
Anyone with any comments on the RC?

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13140
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: New Control Room Construction new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #502896 - 16/08/07 10:05 AM
No, you've done the RC right (or at least the same way I did it!). Screw the drywall to the RC in between the ceiling timbers and you should be fine.

It's a good plan to mark the position of the ceiling timbers on the walls as you go along, so you know what line to avoid!

It's looking good.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
1 registered and 18 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, Will Betts,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating: *****
Thread views: 106556

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Digital Editions | Privacy Policy | Support

June 2013
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for June 2013
DAW Tips from SOS
 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2013. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media