I have read a recent post regarding DP4 ,saying that the audio was better in that sequencer than Logic,Cubase etc.Saying that Logic sounded plastic.
Does the sequencer define the audio quality, as well as the hardware.
Call me stupid ,but i thought they were all dealing with O's and 1's.
If it does then what the best and WHY??????
How do you prove that one sequencer sounds WARMER than the next ,through the same hardware?????

There is more to it. A lot more.
let's just say that if you are coming from OS9, Logic in OSX sounds considerable better - particularly if you are recording in 24bit/44.1 or 48. The audio engine has a lot to do with the sound quality, as well the the algorithms you use to mixdown to 16bit 44.1 stereo interleaved (what you need to do to burn to CD). Basically there are different opinions on what gets kept, what gets thrown out, what the scale looks like to achieve sonic bliss. More importantly than all of this of course, is your source material, and this should be brought into the computer with high quality mics, high quality mic preamps, and sweet sounding A/D converters.

As far as some review that says Logic sounds plastic compared to MOTU's DP 4 - they are just talking sh*t to get the Logic guys in an uproar. If you REALLY want to get picky about it, there are guys who prefer to analogue sum. In other words, mix OUTSIDE of DP or Logic through seriously pricey analogue mixers with A/D D/A converters that cost what you paid for your kids' college education.

My words exactly, Elmer!

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Power Mac G4 800 mhz Quicksilver, 384 mb ram, 40 + 60 mb harddisk - Logic Express - US-428 -Røde NT1000 - Bellari RP520 tube preamp.

Quote ElmerJFudd:

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There is more to it. A lot more.
let's just say that if you are coming from OS9, Logic in OSX sounds considerable better - particularly if you are recording in 24bit/44.1 or 48.

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Surely there isn't a difference in sound between OS 9 and OS X versions of the same software, e.g. LP6, since it's the same audio engine which is running on the different platforms.

The only thing I can think would make a difference is more efficient hardware management which might account for better audio drivers... ?

The difference between earlier versions of DAWs, e.g. Cubase VST->SX is pretty drastic though; again this is down to new audio engines.

- Mark

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent."

"As far as some review that says Logic sounds plastic compared to MOTU's DP 4 - they are just talking sh*t to get the Logic guys in an uproar"

You could not be further from the truth! I wrote that I found the sound plasitcky, and much prefer the sound of DP4.5. This is my opinion. I have not and will never force down anyones throat my own opinion. It is far too subjective. I like what I like, and another person likes what he does.

I recently spoke to a well known producer with over 1/2 million records sold and he told me he recorded his last album at home with logic on a powerbook and an old motu 828 interface. Impressed - yes I was. Did it change my own opinion - no. I still don't like what logic does to my sounds by. Have I sold 1/2 a million records? No. Do I care? No. But do not accuse me of trying to get logic users in an uproar.
Surely the only people who would get in an uproar at a statement like this would be the ones who don't trust their own opinions.

J

(BTW I now use both - logic for midi, DP for audio, and I'm loving what each tool does well.)

Saying that Logic sounds like plastic is meant to instigate.
That's my OPINION, jh. Deal with it.

Logic is a $999 dollar DAW. A major investment on the part of its very large (and professional) user base. People with their own minds and their own opinions who bought it for what it can do and how it sounds. I stand by my post. There is a lot more at stake in the quality of your audio than just the DAW's audio engine (although it plays a good part).

Trust me, Logic 7 sounds as well as DP4.5.
OOPS, there I go again stating an OPINION.

I think JH spouts out his incitive opinions too freely.
OOPS, there I go stating an OPINION again. Guess I'm guilty of the same.

Surely the only people who would get in an uproar over someone thinking their opinion stinks are guys like JH - you know, people that repeat their own opinions over and over again until they believe them as truths.
OOPS, OPINION again.

Sorry.

"Surely the only people who would get in an uproar at a statement like this would be the ones who don't trust their own opinions."

Go to your rooms!

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MySpace / Escapee Planes
Virb

they ALL sound good enough.

the audio engine DOES make a difference, i noticed it in the move from VST to SX -but the tunes i made in VST still sound good.

I think one question has been asked here and a totally different question has been answered. basically if you record somting say in pro tools, dont bring pro tools into the argument. get that audio in its wav, aiff or sdII format and import it at the same bit depth and quantisation level, does it sound diffent on the two platforms. previously it seems a-d converters and os's have been brought into it, thats comparing other items not the software. I personally have used logic and cubase on a pc and have not found a lot of difference, but there is a small one. as for going from mac to pc i have found quite a large diffence. I realise that at very basic level it is working in 0/1's but once again in the above truncation was brought into it which is an argument in itself. theoretically there shouldent be ny diffence but there is, at least on pc the cause could be the os in between the audio software and hardware, as i have came to believe in mac osx core audio alows the hardware to skip the os and go straight to the audio software.

correct me if im wrong, im always up for learning somthing new (aside from spelling ).

Now i've been pondering over this ever since I first bought Logic. I'd previously been a Cubase man. I noticed a difference in sound quality, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but it was definately an undesirable difference, it somehow felt like the sound had lost its sheen or magic.

I could only judge this on Steinberg's The Grand (it being the one piece of audio I had significantly used on both DAWs). This was very dissapointing, It doesn't sound bad, but it isn't pleasing to know. Especially after having forked out all the money on getting a brilliant piano sound (believe me, in Cubase it sounds AWESOME!) But I put it down to the VST - AU wrapper. (could that be the reason for it?)

Recently I've been needing to do alot of bouncing within Logic, and all my worries about loss of quality came tumbling back at me! Bouncing in Logic seemed to make the audio suffer from this same loss of sheen or magic.

... Am I talking [ ****** ]? I would hope not. Or am trying to get the Logic guys in uproar? Absolutely not! I just wan't the best from my setup. But this does worry me.

I, like many other users, came to Logic at around version 5 (the first release for OSX). I have never used Logic in OS9 - nor would I want to at this point. But where I came from was Cubase VST 5.1r2 on OS9.

Let me just say, that Logic 5 sounded startlingly better than VST right from the start. Crisp highs like I never heard before from Cubase.

With that said, yes the audio engine makes a difference. If you want to sh*t your pants... in Logic 7 change the audio engine to -3db compensated Pan Law. Logic is always 0db by default. Do this, and Logic will sound like SX/DP, only.... BETTER!
it's all about the pan law, that's all there is to it. you can find this in song settings/audio.

I got an even NICER change for the better when I switched from a Tascam US-428 to a Yamaha 01X. The A/D conversion is so much more clear and yet smooth sounding. That coupled with Logic put a complete end to me ever booting in OS9 again.

I kept a dual boot machine, because I knew Cubase inside out and had fear of the Logic learning curve... but the sound alone was motivation to learn fast.

Elmer, could you explain Pan Law please? And does this feature exist in logic 6? Are there any down sides to setting a lower pan law and if not, why is it not already set like that?

Pan Law has always been 0db in Logic. Many SX/Nuendo users have switched their Pan Law to match this to achieve a similar sound.

Personally, I find that my mixes are wider and way more detailed at -3db (which is the default for SX/Nuendo and possibly DP too).

Why would this be? It's relatively simple, the signals are equally loud irrespective of their pan when using -3db, whereas at 0db Pan Law they're quieter if not in the center as far as I remember.

Lastly, this is one of the plethora of new settings in 7, you get to choose from:

- 0db (classic Logic 'narrow' stereo image)
- -3db
- -3db compensated (this is the one I use and told Elmer about).