I currently own an m audio delta digital 2496 soundcard but want a better sounding card with better converters and have about £600 available to spend on one.I need the card to capture audio from a dj mixer at the very best sound quality that I can and so need a card with the best a-d conversion I can get but obviously seeing as i'm going to be burning the dj mix onto cd on my computer am not so bothered about d-a conversion because the only sound coming out my computer will be the monitor sound and not the recorded sound. I've asked about this in a shop,digital village I think it was called and been advised that a very good option would be a second hand apogee mini me because then I could still use the m audio sound card and just use the apogee for digital conversion going into my computer.I just thought i'd come on here though and ask you knowledgable guys what you think would be a good option.

By the way, I just wanted to add that i've just this minute been looking at the lynx l22 and lynx one,does anyone have any ideas about how good these soundcards are,and how much better,if any,they are compared to the m audio delta 2496.

Hi Gary

To make a long answer short, I think the Mini-Me/Lynx ideas are overkill, plus the Lynx cards wouldn't allow you to attach your mixer. You'd need additional gear.

I think by far the best solution is to look at a basic USB 2-in 2-out interface - there are plenty about. The input controls would be useful for setting the right level and the conversion is plenty good enough for a DJ mixer with phono outputs. Perhaps look at Presonus or Focusrite.

Well i'm using technics sl1210 turntables with ortofon nightclub s cartridges,an allen and heath xone 02 mixer,van damme cables new vinyl.I'm trying to make sure that everything in my set up is as best quality as I can afford.I wont be processing the dj mix,no compression or eq,i'll be using the eq on the mixer to make alterations.How about the lynx one card?Will that yield better sound quality than the m audio?Or will there no difference either?I dont mind spending that kind of money at all as long as the sound quality is better than my m audio card.I know every little counts so even if it is overkill,if the converters are better in the lynx card then i'll buy it.I guess I do listen to a lot of music at home too so better d-a converters would be good too.By the way,i'm using event tr8xl monitors.

My mistake - the Lynx has a breakout cable, so you would have the right connectivity. And I see your mixer has balanced XLR outputs.

I'm no expert with DJ gear, so I could be wrong. I just feel it would be a waste of money to go for a high-end interface. I'm not sure which style you play, but I'm guessing that whatever it is, you'll be working with tracks which are very compressed and have a very small dynamic range. The best interfaces are often measured by their mic amps (which you don't seem to need) and their ability to record various fine details in acoustic recordings or delicate/quiet material.

It seems like you do need something beyond the 2496, which doesn't have the right inputs to receive your mixer. And the Lynx is indeed much higher specified. But it might well be overspecified for what you want to do and that doesn't undermine what you're doing.

What about this sort of thing? -

http://www.presonus.com/firebox.html

Gary

Take Ben's word for it - using Apogee or Lynx for DJ mixes is total overkill. In fact, it's almost perverse...

Plus, with all due respect, DJ mixes are meant to have a rough-and-ready appeal. Don't get too anal about the absolute quality. An Edirol or M-Audio or whatever will be way more than good enough for recording vinyl.

Keep whatever money you save (by NOT buying Apogee/Lynx) and put it towards promoting your stuff.

Thanks guys, by the way evie,i'm happy being where I am,playing at clubs and parties so really would prefer to have a good soundcard because then that means all my friends can do mix cds in pristine quality as aposed to good quality.I like the presonus firebox,it looks cool.You know I was thinking as well about connecting an arcam cd player to the inputs of the soundcard and then out directly to the monitors,bypassing the cd player's converters because that would mean better sound quality too wouldnt it,i've heard that mentioned at digital village when I went.How much difference is there between the lyn and presonus converters?

Quote gary shaw12:

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...How much difference is there between the lyn and presonus converters?

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In absolute terms, the Lynx is "better" than the Presonus. But this would be only become apparent if you were recording acoustic sources i.e. live instruments, or detailed subtle mixes of same.

Honestly, for the purposes of recording DJ mixes, there will be NO difference whatsoever. In fact, neither unit is likely to offer much "improvement" over your 2496, unless you're really keen to capture the nuances of turntable rumble and dust crackles.

Gary, the advice you've been given really is spot on. it's actually incredible the kind of quality even quite cheap soundcards can achieve. Personally I'd recommend Emu's gear like the 0404, external or internal cards. The Focusrite Saffire LE is an amazing piece of kit for the money. Put the cash you save into other stuff. Don't make the mistake that a lot of us do and spend oodles of money for minimal improvement in quality. as Paul White often says, the 'gear-lust' bug can be tough to shake off! All the best, Toby

Forgot to mention the fantastic MOTU Traveller, 'bout £450 these days and has a great set of in-outs. OOOPs, get these bugs off me! All the best, T

I think i'm gonna go for the presonus firebox.Thanks guys.

If you are still thinking about it then consider just buying a decent ADC and using it with the digital inputs on your existing soundcard. It might prove better value for money in the long run.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Yeah that was the oprion I was originally going to go for.I'm not sure what converters are good.I know the apogee ones are good but they're a lot of money.

You may be able to pick up a very good used or ex-demo convertor for your budget - I'm thinking of manufacturers like Mytek, Lavry or Benchmark. I'm using a Sonifex RB-ADDA1 which is well within your budget. They have a new model which I haven't heard which is easier to use - no more fiddling with preset switches around the back to change sample rate.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

I've just had a look and mytek are the cheapest but they dont seem to be available in the uk. The lavry and benchmark converters are way out of my price range. What about a 2nd hand motu 896hd? Because I could use the extra inputs to connect my cd player as well as my dj mixer.

There are an extra two line inputs on the Firebox, as well as a digital S/PDIF input.

Gary - admit it: You just want to spend as much money as possible because it makes you feel good! Why stop at the 892HD? Save up a bit longer and you could get a Pro Tools HD3 rig!

Just pulling your leg. The advice is here, but only you can decide what to buy. Good luck.

I think i'm gonna stick with the presonus firebox,the converters must be a little better than the m audio card i've got now and that will help me get better sounding cd mixes.I should say that the rest of my equipment being good quality like my allen and heath xone 02 mixer,the ortofon nightclub cartridges and van damme cables I should notice a little bit of difference,and besides,listening to music should be a bit better too so on the whole i'll be happy.

Quote James Perrett:

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You may be able to pick up a very good used or ex-demo convertor for your budget - I'm thinking of manufacturers like Mytek, Lavry or Benchmark. I'm using a Sonifex RB-ADDA1 which is well within your budget...

James.

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James: Nothing personal, but you've made a total joke of this thread.

You're an experienced guy - WTF are you doing suggesting to a newbie who has just been dissuaded from wasting his money on Apogee/Lynx - that he should start thinking about Lavry etc?

Quote Evie McCreevie:

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Quote James Perrett:

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You may be able to pick up a very good used or ex-demo convertor for your budget - I'm thinking of manufacturers like Mytek, Lavry or Benchmark. I'm using a Sonifex RB-ADDA1 which is well within your budget...

James.

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James: Nothing personal, but you've made a total joke of this thread.

You're an experienced guy - WTF are you doing suggesting to a newbie who has just been dissuaded from wasting his money on Apogee/Lynx - that he should start thinking about Lavry etc?

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It looks pretty personal to me.

James advice is not a joke. It points out the fact that the better quality converters could, (although I would have to check the design specs of the unit to be sure), be used to clock the card and hence considerably improve the overall quality available from the whole unit. Also units like the Mytek ADC96 are coming out of US studios for around US$600 leaving plenty of the enquirer's budget left over.

My own Apogee mini me cost US$600, can be used to clock cards with less well designed clocking circuits and comes with two excellent preamps for recording vocals to boot. Your advice seems to completely ignore the fact that the best of both worlds can be had with the application of a little experience rather than stoking the coffers of the mid-range manufacturers at new retail prices out of some form of inverted snobbery.

James being an experienced mastering engineer who works all over Europe would of course be familiar with these issues.

Reg

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Quote Evie McCreevie:

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James: Nothing personal, but you've made a total joke of this thread.

You're an experienced guy...

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It looks pretty personal to me.

James advice is not a joke...

My own Apogee mini me... comes with two excellent preamps for recording vocals to boot.

James being an experienced mastering engineer...

Reg

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I acknowledged that James is an experienced guy - which is why I found his suggestions absurd. And now Reg, you joined the fun mentioning clocking, and excellent preamps for recording vocals...

Please read the thread from the top - the guy is doing DJ mixes of vinyl with his mates, nothing else.

That's why all this talk of Apogee, Lynx, Lavry, Benchmark, clocking, excellent mic pre's etc etc is TOTALLY STUPID.

Quote Evie McCreevie:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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Quote Evie McCreevie:

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James: Nothing personal, but you've made a total joke of this thread.

You're an experienced guy...

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It looks pretty personal to me.

James advice is not a joke...

My own Apogee mini me... comes with two excellent preamps for recording vocals to boot.

James being an experienced mastering engineer...

Reg

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I acknowledged that James is an experienced guy - which is why I found his suggestions absurd. And now Reg, you joined the fun mentioning clocking, and excellent preamps for recording vocals...

Please read the thread from the top - the guy is doing DJ mixes of vinyl with his mates, nothing else.

That's why all this talk of Apogee, Lynx, Lavry, Benchmark, clocking, excellent mic pre's etc etc is TOTALLY STUPID.

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No it's not... (re pres) DJ's (over)dub or dubb or who knows what the lingo is (not my scene) and there is no harm is getting a decent set of converters for £300 second-hand when new mid-range will cost not that much less... (Sorry - not being argumentative - but I feel James has a point EM).

Quote RegressiveRock:

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No it's not... (re pres) DJ's (over)dub or dubb or who knows what the lingo is (not my scene) and there is no harm is getting a decent set of converters for £300 second-hand when new mid-range will cost not that much less... (Sorry - not being argumentative - but I feel James has a point EM).

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Sorry if I'm being (too) argumentative, and repetitive... but using high-end converters to make DJ mixes for your mates strikes me as unnecessary at least, and perhaps slightly obscene.

The typical analogy of using a Ferrari to go to Tesco comes to mind.

Anyway, I've had my say, and will finish now. Peace.

Quote Evie McCreevie:

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Sorry if I'm being (too) argumentative, and repetitive... but using high-end converters to make DJ mixes for your mates strikes me as unnecessary at least, and perhaps slightly obscene.

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I would agree with that point, but Gary seemed desperate to spend his money on something so I thought I would point him towards a way of using what he already owns to the best advantage. A used $600 high end convertor is likely to be better value for money in the long run than a middle of the range all-in-one box which will lose most of its value in the first couple of years.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

What about getting a 2nd hand dbx quantum?I've heard that its got excellent converters and I could use it for mastering cd mixes,like getting a bit more loudness out or adding a bit more air.I could go out the dj mixer into the dbx via analogue inputs,then through the dbx bypassing all the processing,and out through its digital outputs into my m audio soundcard and record the mix onto my computer,then back out my computer when the mix is recorded via the digital output of my soundcard into the dbx to process the mix,then back out the dbx via the analogue outputs to my monitors.I could do it that way couldnt I?I've seen the dbx quantum sell for as little as £350 2nd hand,and i'd have a very powerful mastering processor and better converters than the ones in my audio soundcard alone wouldn't I.

I could be wrong, but I think Gary is winding us up...

Quote gary shaw12:

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I think i'm gonna stick with the presonus firebox,the converters must be a little better than the m audio card i've got now and that will help me get better sounding cd mixes.

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no it won't, actually.

The one thing you haven't mentioned in all this is what you HEAR currently in your mixes that you don't like, and that you think better converters would change. Given this fact, and the already high quality, well beyond the aural discrimination of many people, of cards like the M-Audio, I presume the answer is "nothing".

It took me a long time to learn that EVERYTHING in comparisons of quality between gear is dependent upon whether you can hear it or not. Because if you can't, it won't make you mix your music any differently from the way you do currently.

So development needs to be a two-part process in which the learning and the gear keep pace with each other, not just a sudden leap to better gear that makes no difference to your ears.

I'm not winding you up,i'm serious.But nevermind,i'll just go with the firebox then and leave it at that.That should do me.Thanks everyone for your advice.