Here's a question, can anybody say definitively what it is that makes the DX7 so much better than the rest of Yamaha's 4-op range of FM synths? I've got a DX27, and I do like it, but I always wonder if I should have a DX7 too. I've listened to a lot of sound samples, and I can't say that they sound all that dissimilar. Acoustic Grand (init1) is the only DX7 patch I've heard that the DX27 can't do as well, but it's a subtle difference.
Does that extra operator make all the difference, or is it more to do with the extra algorithms??

I used to have a DX27. A very good friend of mine, and former band member, had a DX7. There was a difference. I'm not up enough on FM programming to say what it was, or why it was, but there was a marked difference.

By the way, consider getting yourself an FS1R. I have one, and it is superb! It has just about every DX sound you can think of, and more (what with the addition of formant filters on board).

I think FM sounds are making a come-back. If, indeed, they ever went away.

With 2 extra operators it does give you a lot more possible algorithms (32?), so more complex sounds. It is better? don't know TBH. There's no doubt some subtle stuff you can do with the extra operators that can make a difference. Sometimes simplicity is an advantage though, I'd have probably tried programming mine more if it had been a 4-Op.

You could always try FM7/8, or as Les suggested the FS1R (good luck programming it w/o an editor though...). Admittedly DX7s are so cheap now it'd be cheaper to get the real thing.

Best thing about the DX7 is the velocity & aftertouch sensitive keybed, still use mine as my master keyboard. Other thing is the original DX7 had poor convertors (12 bit IIR - which in 1984 probably meant 11 bit...), makes it rather noisy. Your DX27 came out later so should be quieter.

The DX27 was the first synth I ever bought. If I remember correctly it wasn't velocity sensitive and only 8 note polyphony, whereas the DX7 I believe is velocity sensitive and 16 note poly.

The 4op machines had a number of additional wavforms, which can be very useful for getting "harder" sounds with less resources. I like 'em just as much as the 6ops. If you program them right, they can blow your speakers out just like the DX7, even the lowly 10 Bit FB01. Countless dance hits and '80's pop tracks have 4op stuff on them.
As happens so often in audio with old technology, people now regard the dodgy converters and processing quality as being part of the appeal.
I played quite a bit with the FS1R, which is a superb machine with a slicker sound. The FM uber-synth IMHO.
The FM7/8 is cool, it doesn't sound quite like the hardware - lacking some weight and depth, which you notice esp. when importing patches. But, it's still a good usable plug, in my book.

Unless you are specifically after the dodgier sounding original, try and track down a DX7II - you benefit from a better control panel, dual timbrality, and far cleaner converters (and less noise).

The FS1R is the mutt's nuts and produces perhaps the widest range of FM sounds in a box.

The best of the 4-op boxes is probably the TX81Z. Its own speciality is non-sinusoid operators.

This set makes up my Yamaha FM trio - and they all bring something unique to the table.

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TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME

Quote JimiQ:

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The best of the 4-op boxes is probably the TX81Z. Its own speciality is non-sinusoid operators.

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If you're looking for a keyboard, rather than a rack module, the DX11 was effectively a TX81Z in a keyboard (and was my first proper synth) - you can pick them up for peanuts. The big difference with the TX81Z, DX11 (and indeed DX7II) was that it's FM operators weren't limited to sine waves, but could produce a range of different wave forms, which greatly increase the sounds you can make with just 4 ops (and could make sounds that the DX7 never could because of this).

TQ5 is a TX81Z with FX and a sequencer I believe.
Shhhh

Personally I like the original DX7 for it's ability to cut through a mix. Great synths. The DX7II is quieter and capable of richer sounds. DX7IIFD is the daddy. I have the TX816 though which is the original DX7 in a rack x 8. Monster synth and a superb bit of kit if you can be bothered to program it properly!
I also have an oddity that is the FVX1.

8op FM so even more than any other Yamaha FM synth and it sounds incredible. Not really very programmable though. Tweakable though and it has 300 excellent patches and 4 part multitimbrality.

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http://www.davidmorley.com

Mmm.
That sounds like a fun box!
(Though the FS1R has en extended operator set with complex wavform generation).
Is there no way to deep edit using sysex?

Try picking up a YS200 or YS100 (YS200 minus sequencer). They're 4 op, have velocity sentivity, aftertouch, effects (reverb, delay etc), are very easy to edit and sound really really great...

Also worth aa look is the DX200 : 2001



Were around £199 new, s/h prob half that or less.
Its got pc & mac sw editor.


http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/yamaha_dx200.cfm
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Yamah a/DX-200/10/1


Its got a sibling in the AN200 : Analogue Modelling, for those wanting an AN1X in a box !

And don't forget the TX802 rack either... there's a review on the SOS site here

I remember being at a DX Convention in London when SOS author Martin Russ demoed sounds from the DX7 ROM cartridge he had programmed (sold under the brand name of Skyslip, I recall).

At the time everyone thought the DX could only make "digital" spiky sounds, and Martin floored us with a fabulous Oberheim multi-mod patch and some stunning (at the time) "breathy" Fairlight sounds like those all over the Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel albums.

Ian G

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SOS Gear Videos now screening on www.SoundOnSound.tv
SOS Podcasts

You'll also find a review of the DX200 from 2001 on this here SOS site too

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul01/articles/yamahadx200.asp

Ian G

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SOS Gear Videos now screening on www.SoundOnSound.tv
SOS Podcasts

Hi, the 4 OP Yamaha's are capable of some very nice sounds, they are grainier, and slightly rougher than the 6 OP Yamaha's. I have a MK1 DX7, which is my favorite synth of all time, period. But I used to have a TX81Z that sounded very nice indeed, very organic, you'd be surprised at what you can coax out of those machines.
I also had a TX802, which I found was great for sequencing percussion sounds, and I used it as a drum box, permanently connected to my Alesis MMT8. The overall sound of it was very smooth, more refined. If possible try and get a TX816, they are still great machines, and very powerful for sequencing, especially with the 128 note polyphony !

Tony.

>At the time everyone thought the DX could only make "digital" spiky sounds...

Ha, yes I rarely set an operator modulation above a certain point, unless I'm adding some hash or spit to a transient etc. As soon as I hear those over-splatty overtones I tend to back off.

I still have never figured out if the sound at the front of MJ's "beatit" could have be done with FM alone. I'd like to hear the breathy DX patches...

Quote Grantsos:

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>At the time everyone thought the DX could only make "digital" spiky sounds...

Ha, yes I rarely set an operator modulation above a certain point, unless I'm adding some hash or spit to a transient etc. As soon as I hear those over-splatty overtones I tend to back off.

I still have never figured out if the sound at the front of MJ's "beatit" could have be done with FM alone. I'd like to hear the breathy DX patches...

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HA HA ! as soon as I hear spitting spiky granulated sounds I automatically ad more modulation ! And a high fixed ratio OP frequency, truly amazing, as it all breaks up when you move the pitch wheel !
You want breathy ? then you need a 4 0P TX81Z or similar, you can get very breathy with those, breathy and grainy.

Tony.

Quote arpangel:

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HA HA ! as soon as I hear spitting spiky granulated sounds I automatically ad more modulation ! And a high fixed ratio OP frequency, truly amazing, as it all breaks up when you move the pitch wheel !
You want breathy ? then you need a 4 0P TX81Z or similar, you can get very breathy with those, breathy and grainy.
Tony.

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Each to his own...
Got an 81Z, amongst other things, I just never tried getting breathy sounds on it. I guess my FM programming style is more along the trippy, quirky or punchy lines at the moment. Doing most of it on the Nord Modular, and G2. I would use the FM8 more, but I find the modulation routing hampered compared to the modulars.

By breathy I don't mean choir/pipes breathy, I mean "granular" breathy, it's a bit difficult to describe, it's like sand running down a pipe, a nice quality that you can add to various sounds on the TX81Z, it's miles away form the normal FM sound, which is why I liked it. I'll try and remember how I got it.

Tony.

Quote arpangel:

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By breathy I don't mean choir/pipes breathy, I mean "granular" breathy, it's a bit difficult to describe, it's like sand running down a pipe, a nice quality that you can add to various sounds on the TX81Z, it's miles away form the normal FM sound, which is why I liked it. I'll try and remember how I got it.

Tony.

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I *think* I know what you're talking about...
I was doing a noisey-with-metalic overtones FM thing (I said I don't often turn up the mod, not never ) on the modular recently (which benefits from filters) and there was a grainy aspect to some of the settings. Getting the noise did require 3 sinewave ops though, so it's quite "expensive".

These types of threads always remind me of the shameful day I sold my DX 1...................

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Samplecraze
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Quote Zukan:

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These types of threads always remind me of the shameful day I sold my DX 1...................

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Tut! Tut!

Send yourself to the back of the class.

Back of the class?!!
You should be permanently excluded for ever letting that out of your grip!

I know.

When OVU, Max and I have these tech debates, we always hark back to bad decisions...................and I always win with the DX 1.

Somehow, my FS1R isn't quite the same.

I shall coat it now and weep in a quiet dark corner.

I am ashamed.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

You could always get another one ? I'm on a mission to get another ARP2600, I'll then be able to banish that bug-ridden Arturia to the dustbin.
I think I'll be taking my DX7 to the grave with me, and when I do meet my maker I want it to go to a good home, free of charge, thats been my decision for my whole studio, I just want it to be used and loved by someone, not end up in a skip or some secondhand shop. And the last people i want to get there filthy hands on my studio are my relatives.

Tony.

I hear you.

I cannot find another DX 1 and have never even seen one come up for sale.

I sold my 2600 last year and although I loved it I rarely used it in the last few years.
But then I'm a total slut and have too many analogue synths and not enough of them get attention.
I will probably be offloading some more soon, the Arp 2500 being the first to go.
But it needs repair and servicing first.

The DX 1 I still miss.

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Samplecraze
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Quote Zukan:

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the Arp 2500 being the first to go.

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ARP 2500?

That's your retirement fund sorted then

Be sure to take a gobload of samples! If you won't, I will

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Needs a lot of work Hollow.

I have the main section but the cabs are well ropey, and the keyboard needs a complete overhaul.

I'll get James to deal with it.

It is a boner inducing piece of kit though and I have used it before, albeit limited.

I have been trying to swap it with a guy who has a Moog modular, but we seem to be at a crossroads.

Can you believe it? He has a 3P and a 55.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Zukan:

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Can you believe it? He has a 3P and a 55.

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Shouldn't be allowed

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I know.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Zukan:

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I hear you.

I cannot find another DX 1 and have never even seen one come up for sale.

I sold my 2600 last year and although I loved it I rarely used it in the last few years.
But then I'm a total slut and have too many analogue synths and not enough of them get attention.
I will probably be offloading some more soon, the Arp 2500 being the first to go.
But it needs repair and servicing first.

The DX 1 I still miss.

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A friend has a DX1, I can always ask him if he wants to part with it ? But I doubt if he will be willing. I wish I knew about your 2600 ? The 2500 would be way OTT for me, I just wouldn't use it, even if I could afford it.
if I had a 2600 it would be my only synth, I wouldn't need anything else, I could get by with that alone. It is still the best synth for random work as far as my music is concerned, and chaotic sounds, and it's suitability for being abused is beyond belief, with "destructive patching"

Tony.

The one I sold was the version 3 orange/black combo and it was in absolute mint condition, the best in the country.

The official Depeche Mode tribute band bought it for ridiculous money so I sold it to them.
I can post pics if you want but it would just piss you off.

I also sold my System 100 to them. That too was immaculate.
I restored that baby to original condition even going as far as having the knobs on the sequencer custom built in the US.

The 2600 is one of the best semi modulars I have ever used.
Limitless what you can do with one.

I generally miss anything I sell but I try to be realistic in that if I am not using something much then it's best if it goes to someone who will.

Having said that there are some bits I hoard and will not part with but I do use them often.

The 2500, I don't, so best it goes to a loving home.....a big ass home of course 'cos it's a big bastard.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Hi Zukan, I was offered a mint 2600 an orange one in fact, for £1,100 7 years ago, I should have bought it. I had already bought an Odyssey, which was also mint, and I had run out of money at that point. These things always come along when I'm broke.

Tony.

Don't forget the DX-21 too, not bad for what it is and cheap as fries these days.

I once played about with Mutt Lange's DX-1 (long story), it really was amazing but as has been said, they almost never come up for sale these days.

I hear you Arp.

Just top add to the misery: I sold my 2600 for 2350 three years ago.

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Samplecraze
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Quote Zukan:

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Just top add to the misery: I sold my 2600 for 2350 three years ago.

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I bought my 2600 (an immaculate original grey faced model) for £350.

That was around 1981 though.

And I bought a mint Oberheim SEM for £99 around the same time.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

One of the studios I work in has a DX5 standing on end behind a control room curtain. It's been there for, at the very least, 6 years to my knowledge, and never plugged in. Shame.

I still have my TX-802 and use it almost constantly. My favourite trick is to add some twang to an analogue bass, or sparkle across a piano part. I've often felt that FM sounds are at their best when they're layered with other instruments, but that's just a matter of taste.

For a very short while I used a DX-21, but for me it had none of the depth and gloss of the 6-operator synths - it sounded pretty much like the type of FM sounds from those nasty old PC soundcards in the early 90s.

Totally agree about the quality of the keyboard of the DX7. Only my Kurzweil K2000 betters it.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote hollowsun:

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Quote Zukan:

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Just top add to the misery: I sold my 2600 for 2350 three years ago.

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I bought my 2600 (an immaculate original grey faced model) for £350.

That was around 1981 though.

And I bought a mint Oberheim SEM for £99 around the same time.

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Ah, dem days.....

I'll give you a ton for the SEM.
Don't knock it. It's still profit.

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Samplecraze
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Quote The Elf:

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One of the studios I work in has a DX5 standing on end behind a control room curtain.
...
For a very short while I used a DX-21, but for me it had none of the depth and gloss of the 6-operator synths - it sounded pretty much like the type of FM sounds from those nasty old PC soundcards in the early 90s.

Totally agree about the quality of the keyboard of the DX7. Only my Kurzweil K2000 betters it.

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Well I think the DX-7II (D or FD) is a darn good second best to the DX-1. And these do pop up on the secondhand market. I agree it's a great controller keyboard too.

Yes. DX-21s I always found disappointing in the shadow of the 6-op.

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TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME

Quote Zukan:

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I'll give you a ton for the SEM.
Don't knock it. It's still profit.

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Too late - someone gave me £400 for it some years back.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog