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Commander



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Adam S3a active monitors
      #533772 - 14/10/07 05:35 PM
Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these speakers. I'm getting hold of a pair next week for evaluation after years of using Genelecs (I feel like a change) so I'm interested to hear other people's opinions before I plug 'em in!

Many thanks!

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #533787 - 14/10/07 06:40 PM
I've been using a pair for the last couple of years, and love 'em. I'd been using Genelec 1030a previously and after the initial honeymoon period, discovered that mixes didn't translate as well as I wanted. I've found that the Adams don't give me a hyped sound (which felt the Genelecs did), and are pretty unforgiving about poor mix decisions - so ultimately if it sounds good on the S3as, it sounds good most anywhere. The stereo imaging and depth on them was a real eye opener too. The first time I played some reference tracks through them I was shocked at the amount of stuff I was hearing for the first time in tracks that I thought I'd known well for years!

Make sure you try all the vertical / horizontal / woofer inside / woofer outside options - it can make a real difference depending on the room you're in. I've never had to use the roll off controls, so can't say if they're helpful or detrimental to the sound. Overall opinion? Great pair of monitors.


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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #533808 - 14/10/07 07:44 PM
Quote reid:

I'd been using Genelec 1030a previously ...




Me too! I use 1030s with a 1092 sub. I also have some 1032s in storage (with sub) which I was considering digging out for comparison. Were you using a sub with your Genelecs and if so did you feel that you missed it when you switched to the Adams?

Mind you I've heard that the Adams S3a pair very well with Genelec subs so that could also be interesting.

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #533851 - 14/10/07 10:10 PM
Generally Chris, i don't need a sub with the S3 , or their cheaper offspring the P33A. (actually read that as i've NEVER neededa sub with them... but i HAVE wished for one when using the smaller P11A's etc)

indeed, i'd find myself wondering more about shortcomings of the room than the monitors if i felt a sub was a necessity. when using the S3......

the detail and resolution of transients and individual elements is quite astonishing when you first get to work with them in detail.......

and much less fatiguing than some other monitors that have reputations for "Hf clarity"

also worth a look, maybe the Klein&Hummel ..... the O300 things are lovely.... the only caveat perhaps being that they're not "Room filling rock monsters" for impressing producers.... but they're beautifully detailed and revealing..... if i hadn't been spoilt by working with Adam's often, the K&H would be top of my "Want for Xmas list"

both the K&H and Adam's , in my earnest opinion, easily knock spots off the gennys

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #533897 - 15/10/07 06:13 AM
Truth is, I tried a sub with both the Genelecs and the S3as, and was never happy with the result. Whether that was down to my room, incorrect set up or my less than stellar mixing skills, I don't know - but I was always getting the impression that the sub was either doing too much or nothing at all. As it is, I've never felt like I'm missing anything without one, and queries to dubbing guys that have to mix with my material have all come back with positive reactions to what is going on in the bass end - not too heavy and not too light.

Also, to back up Max's point about fatigue - I've been doing 14 hour days for the last couple of weeks with my Adams and have never felt as if my ears are getting stressed (wish I could say the same for the rest of me... ), which was certainly never the case with the Genelecs.

One to also look out for is the Focal range of monitors. Never heard one and I don't know if they have a UK dealer, but a friend in the States has nothing but good things to say about his pair (Focal 6, I think)


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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #533960 - 15/10/07 10:21 AM
Thanks chaps. I'm going to get hold of some Adam s3a and K+H 0300s for evaluation over the next couple of weeks. I'll also get hold of the 0800 sub for the K+Hs and try the Adams with my Genelec sub. Might borrow some ATC SCM50s as well and drag my Genelec 1032s out of storage for good measure while I'm at it!

I do love my Genelecs but recently I have been feeling that my ears are a little fatigued at the end of a long day (and there are a lot of them recently!). Be nice to compare the 1030s to something else.

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #539359 - 28/10/07 06:28 PM
Well I tried the Adam S3As for a week and found them pretty good, although somebody else mentioned that they sounded like big NS10s and I would have to agree. I really liked the fact that everything I was hearing was coming from the one box though, as opposed to my 1030 plus sub combination that seems to have a bit of a hole in the lower mids.

I should be receiving the Klein + Hummel 0300s this week. I've heard nothing but glowing reports concerning the K+Hs and I can't wait to plug 'em in and try them out! Out of habit I have also asked them to send me the 0800 sub to audition but I am really hoping that I won't need it for the reasons stated above.

Question about the K+H 0300s: being a three way cabinet does the tweeter go on the inside or the outside, or doesn't it matter?

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Sounds-and-images
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #539365 - 28/10/07 06:52 PM
I never liked the idea of a sub in a studio rig.. can't put my finger on why.

When we met Commander I think I mention the KRK's I bought the RP8s as they seemed to give me a full range with rich and full bass, though the next range up might have been desired by yourself.

I am glad I chose them as for there price they have been unfaultable..

Though I have yet to hear my own music on someone elses rig.


I would have bought Adam if the budget would have stretched to them.

Simon

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clownsplitter
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #539613 - 29/10/07 12:14 PM
Having used PMC DB1+'s up to this point I've just taken delivery of a pair of o300's from ASAP Europe at an advantageous price. F*ck me.
I'll let you know how my mixes translate if I can stop listening to record collection and smiling like Mongo out of blazing saddles for long enough.


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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: clownsplitter]
      #539792 - 29/10/07 05:39 PM
Quote clownsplitter:


I'll let you know how my mixes translate if I can stop listening to record collection and smiling like Mongo out of blazing saddles for long enough.




Just heard from HHB that the K+H 0300s and 0800 sub will be with me tomorrow morning!

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540163 - 30/10/07 02:39 PM
So far in the Adam S3a / K+H 0300 / Genelec 1030 with subwoofer war the Genelecs are winning out by some margin (at least to my ears).

Blimey.


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John Willett
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540170 - 30/10/07 02:47 PM
Quote Commander:

So far in the Adam S3a / K+H 0300 / Genelec 1030 with subwoofer war the Genelecs are winning out by some margin (at least to my ears).




Be careful......

Make sure you choose a monitor on how it reveals and not how "good" it sounds.

I don't know the Adam,

The K+H are quality revealing monitors with great imagery.

The Genelecs are "Marmite" - you love them or hate them; which seems to say that they may have a "sound".

But - you pays your money and makes your choice

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ZukanModerator
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540183 - 30/10/07 03:11 PM
Be a he-man and audition some ATCs.

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540189 - 30/10/07 03:35 PM
I would add that some care is needed in setting up both the ADAM and the K&H to get the best from either... the K&H particularly have a kind of "looking up from inside the surface of the pond" feeling to them.... they sound merely "okay" until you hit the sweet spot... but then, when you get it right , it's like taking your head out of the water and opening your eyes. everything around you is in sharper detail, more involving and 3 dimensional.... and I love them to bits.... Jack (the producer formerly know as) has a pair in his Wimbledon place....

it's a less immediately pronounced difference with the ADAM's, they seem to have a deeper sweetspot with shallower gradients at it's edges, but even so, careful setting up does get the best results. they suit me only slightly better than the K&H , and i would not be upset with santa for leaving me either .... They're still different beasties though.....


I've never managed to set up a pair of 1030's in a controlled space that gave the detail and clarity of either of the other 2 without some serious drawbacks, they, in common with most small (ish) genelecs, have always sounded comparatively brittle and overly edgy to me.... and tiring.... I can't do more then 3 hours with them without needing an extended tea break. Santa would not be getting a return invite on that basis....

and they're is that question of how well your room is controlled ....... i know Marineville's security is top notch, but it might be an idea to let the Bass-trap and RFZ fairies in during the night whilst you sleep.

But leave a note under the milk & cookies that they're not to ruin the drum sounds !

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540272 - 30/10/07 07:46 PM
Hang on a minute ... just discovered the eq knobs on the back of the 0300s .. hmmmm.

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Wizard Moon Chopper



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540279 - 30/10/07 08:00 PM
... there will now be a brief interlude while CB goes and checks all his other gear for hidden knobs on the back....

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John Willett
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540340 - 30/10/07 10:32 PM
Quote Commander:

Hang on a minute ... just discovered the eq knobs on the back of the 0300s .. hmmmm.




Yes - you can set them up to take account of room placement.

I'm surprised you missed them.

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: John Willett]
      #540354 - 30/10/07 11:06 PM
Quote John Willett:



I'm surprised you missed them.




So am I. The manual is in German and the eq selectors were set with the top rolled off so no wonder I thought they were a little soft sounding! I've now got them sounding very much like the Genelecs only without that hi mid harshness.

Going to plug them into the K+H 0800 subwoofer tomorrow.

They are singing to me and my Bank Manager is getting nervous.

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540384 - 31/10/07 02:26 AM
cue the sound of cackling cavernous laughter , as the Gear acquisition syndrome ( or demon rys as it's more properly known) smiles and utters "you're mine now boyo, quail, oh puny bank managers, at my shiny new toy's powers of seduction"



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John Willett
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Re: K+H O300D (was: Adam S3a active monitors) new [Re: Commander]
      #540425 - 31/10/07 09:08 AM
Quote Commander:

Quote John Willett:



I'm surprised you missed them.




So am I. The manual is in German.....




The pdf of the Manual in English is HERE so you can read it properly.

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Commander



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Re: K+H O300D (was: Adam S3a active monitors) new [Re: John Willett]
      #540432 - 31/10/07 09:36 AM
Cheers John! Splendid chap!

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540619 - 31/10/07 04:58 PM
Spent all day fiddling with the K+H 0300s and my ears feel fine! I also plugged them into the 0800 sub and the difference was minimal and only really evident on orchestral bass drums and really low stuff like that. It's amazing how these (fairly) small speakers kick out so much bottom end, far more than the Genelec 1030s at any rate.

I have read on other forums that people perceive there to be a volume problem with the 0300s and that they aren't room filling and don't go loud enough. I would really have to dispute that as they are far too loud to crank up when used as nearfields, especially with the sub in the loop as well. Very nice tight sound even at low volumes, just like the Genelecs in fact.

Very impressed so far. I thought this was an Adam S3A thread!

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Sounds-and-images
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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540631 - 31/10/07 05:30 PM
Hi Commander,

SO you gave up on the Adams then?

I heard these when I bought my rig, but could not afford them

http://www.focalprofessional.com/en/products/tween6Be.html

Sounded pretty good to my ears, here is an article on a US website about monitors.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/studio_monitors.htm

What about the Adam A7s or P11a?

I never listened to Adams but they do look rather nice and I have heard nice things about them...

Simon

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #540638 - 31/10/07 06:02 PM
Quote Simon Fielder:



SO you gave up on the Adams then?




Not really, the Adams were great but I'm looking to replace the Genelecs with something similar but less wearing on my ears and that would seem to be the Klein + Hummel 0300s so far!

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540645 - 31/10/07 06:25 PM
Have you thought about getting rid of your sub?

Have you tried something from the KRK upper ranges?

They seem to have a following.

http://www.krksys.com/

I don't what else you might like, it is very personal after all..

Best of luck with your choice mate.

Simon

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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #540676 - 31/10/07 08:08 PM
The thing with the sub and the Genelec 1030s is that I really find them a bit thin without it. You get the whole picture with a sub and the 1030s in my opinion, but this can bring its own problems sometimes and I often feel that there is a bit of a hole in the middle of the soundstage.

With the K&H 0300s however there is no such hole as they seem to be covering pretty much the whole spectrum and I like the idea of everything coming from the one place. When you plug the sub in as well they really come alive and it feels like you are sitting in the middle of the music, which is very very nice!

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540681 - 31/10/07 08:26 PM
I guess they need to be heard to be believed.

I will go and have a look at them...

The one place solution is why I bought my KRKs the bottom end is amazing.

Edit: Just had a look at their website an they do look rather stylish, just right for Marineville!

Found this studio that uses them.

http://www.qtonstudios.com/

EEK just seen the USA price.. A touch pricey LOL...

Simon

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Edited by Simon Fielder (31/10/07 08:35 PM)


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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #540689 - 31/10/07 09:11 PM
they aint tuppence ha'penny here either.....

Simon, the K&H's are really in another league from the KRK range.... price wise and quality wise (although the law of diminishing returns is hard at work , as usual... )

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540690 - 31/10/07 09:18 PM
Quote Commander:

It's amazing how these (fairly) small speakers kick out so much bottom end, far more than the Genelec 1030s at any rate.




It's not really amazing. It's basic physics. The Genelecs are ported -- like most 'monitors' -- because that enables the designer to get more bass volume and make the speakers appear louder and more efficient. However, the downside is that this approach tends to produce a resonant peak at the bass end, and the roll off below that is very steep, so there is no deep bass, and what bass there is tends to be resonant and phase shifted.

In contrast, the sealed cabinet design of the O300s (and the revered BBC LS3/5A and NS10s) means that the bass response falls away far more gradually, and without resonant peaks and phase shifts. As a result, although these speakers don't go as loud, the bass response is much more natural sounding and far more extended -- the O300 puts out useful amounts of bass to seemingly ridiculously low frequencies for such a compact box, just becasue the roll off is slower and more extended.

It is interesting to note that the PMC 'advanced transmission line' monitors manage to combine the best of both worlds. Through the low mid to high bass frequencies, the line is so well damped that the bass driver effectively thinks it is in a sealed cabient, and so the bass response falls very gently and smoothly with no phase shift. But at very low frequencies the line starts to pass audio, more like a ported speaker, which lifts the very deep response to give a far more extended overall response than any other speaker design fo a similar cabinet size. ...kind of...

Quote:

I have read on other forums that people perceive there to be a volume problem with the 0300s and that they aren't room filling and don't go loud enough. I would really have to dispute that as they are far too loud to crank up when used as nearfields




They don't have the same max SPL as some other speakrs at a similar price point, but thyey do have more than enough for most applications -- especially near field use. They key, once again, is that they have astonishly low levels of disortion at the bass end -- another benefit of the sealed box design. Our ears learn that more distortion = more loudness, so when that distortion is missing subjectively people don't think they are listening very loud. And then they find they can't talk to the person sitting next to them over the noise from the speakers!

Quote:

Very impressed so far. I thought this was an Adam S3A thread!




The O300 is a very nice speaker indeed, and given the choice between the S3A, the gene's and the O300, I'd choose the latter every time. It doesn't appeal to everyone, I'm sure but for the kind of music I work with (mainly real, acoustical instruments and voices) it would be the best choice. IMHO.

hugh

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540691 - 31/10/07 09:21 PM
I gather that Max, I have not heard or had experience with the upper ranges of KRK I just guess that they would have been atleast comparable to the K+hs

My monitors were only £400 the pair, so there is alot of difference.

I have heard Adam P11s and The Focal twins that I mentioned (£1200-1500 at a guess)

I just mentioned Monitors that may not need a Sub too.

Nice insight there Hugh, nice to have some deeper info on the Monitors.

Simon

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Edited by Simon Fielder (31/10/07 09:24 PM)


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Commander



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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #540711 - 31/10/07 10:27 PM
Quote Simon Fielder:



My monitors were only £400 the pair, so there is alot of difference.




Hi Simon! The K+Hs retail here for about £2,600.00 and the sub (should I need it) is another £1,500.00 so they are a fair old wedge. That is still cheaper than my Genelec 1032s and Sub were back in 1997 though so that's one way of looking at it. That's the angle I'm going to give my bank manager at any rate!

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540717 - 31/10/07 10:39 PM
Thats a decent amount of usage there Commander.

I was not recommending KRK RP8s to you I was actually on about The Expose or the VXT range.

But then the cost of X piece of kit to income ratio is very different so actually the K +hs are good value and will pay for themselves very quickly indeed.

Simon

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Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540718 - 31/10/07 10:42 PM
My last thought. I really like the look of the Focals the rich sherry coloured wood panels are rather lovely.

But I don't know much about them, anyone used these?

When I upgrade then I would expect to spend alot more cash.

Simon

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Commander



Joined: 21/03/05
Posts: 3896
Loc: Marineville HQ (W.A.S.P.)
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540811 - 01/11/07 10:34 AM
So this morning I nipped off to the lock up and dug out my old Genelec 1032s to compare them with the Genelec 1030/sub combination and the K+H 0300s. I now have a room full of speakers and after much plugging and unplugging I keep coming back to the K+Hs which obviously means my ears are telling me that they are in love. Aural sex ...

The K+Hs really do seem to have everything in the one box to my ears. Very open but not too flattering at the top end with a fabulous bottom end that belies the size of the cabinet. To my surprise I found that my beloved old Genelecs sounded quite middly/toppy after a couple of days with the K+Hs.

HHB are sending over some Dynaudios and some ATCs early next week for comparison, although I am not sure what models but they will be comparable to the K+Hs, and I may try and get hold of the Adam S3As again for good measure.

Should be an interesting experiment!

--------------------
Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...


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Commander



Joined: 21/03/05
Posts: 3896
Loc: Marineville HQ (W.A.S.P.)
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #540812 - 01/11/07 10:35 AM
Quote Simon Fielder:

My last thought. I really like the look of the Focals the rich sherry coloured wood panels are rather lovely.




Yes the Focals look interesting too and I agree, visually they are very cool!

--------------------
Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9349
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540814 - 01/11/07 10:41 AM
Depending on which model of the ATCs they send, I believe you will have nightmares choosing between the K&H and ATCs.

But it can get very subjective at this level assuming the room's acoustics are sorted.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Commander



Joined: 21/03/05
Posts: 3896
Loc: Marineville HQ (W.A.S.P.)
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Zukan]
      #540817 - 01/11/07 10:44 AM
Quote Zukan:

Depending on which model of the ATCs they send, I believe you will have nightmares choosing between the K&H and ATCs.




Are they very similar?

--------------------
Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9349
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540823 - 01/11/07 11:01 AM
In some respects yes, detail, low end extension, mid range distortion etc.

I have the SCM20s and they are fantastic.

The 100s are amazing and the detail is quite incredible.

A lot of film and media projects are mixed and referenced on ATCs.


But, like I said, it depends which model you are comparing the K&Hs to.
And, trust me, the K&Hs are also very good and this is why I said you would have hell deciding which ones to get.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Commander



Joined: 21/03/05
Posts: 3896
Loc: Marineville HQ (W.A.S.P.)
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540828 - 01/11/07 11:17 AM
Hi Zukan - the active ATC SCM20s look pretty good so I'll try and get hold of a pair. The 100s would seem a little on the pricey side although should I move to a bigger room I will definitely try them out.

I'm really enjoying these K+Hs by the way ...

--------------------
Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...


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Sounds-and-images
active member


Joined: 16/03/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: Under a table
Re: Adam S3a active monitors new [Re: Commander]
      #540829 - 01/11/07 11:23 AM
Quote Commander:

So this morning I nipped off to the lock up and dug out my old Genelec 1032s to compare them with the Genelec 1030/sub combination and the K+H 0300s. I now have a room full of speakers and after much plugging and unplugging I keep coming back to the K+Hs which obviously means my ears are telling me that they are in love. Aural sex ...

The K+Hs really do seem to have everything in the one box to my ears. Very open but not too flattering at the top end with a fabulous bottom end that belies the size of the cabinet. To my surprise I found that my beloved old Genelecs sounded quite middly/toppy after a couple of days with the K+Hs.





If this is the case that your ears are in love then the job is done!

It sounds like they suit your ears very well and they look very smart too.

So is this the final touch to the studio?

Or anything else planned for the new toys department?

Simon

--------------------
www.sounds-and-images.co.uk
http://twitter.com/soundsandimages


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