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Dameo



Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 150
Loc: sheffield.
Modern synths are rubbish?
      #538061 - 25/10/07 10:17 AM
Why is it that new synths seem to concentrate on features?,
I was going to buy the new Korg M3, i did think about it ,but when I listened to the sounds, One thing struck me -
it sounds thinner than a triton pro, i also listened to the yamaha XS6 , also this machine sounds thin(turn off the effects on a lead sound and it sounds more like a fly buzzing around your ear!).

When i had my original trinity from korg, that was a thicker sound ,more warm sound, then i got a triton which was thinner and now the M3 is thinner still, just better features and more Fx, Hardware synths seem to becoming more and more like softsynths , whats the point?.

Whats the point of buying hardware if its just software sounding with a hardware interface? ,if the manufacturers are going to sell new keyboards they need to concentrate on sound quality not features.

I am into old analog synths also , keyboards seem to be going backwards in my ears!, ive ended up getting a kurzweil K2661, which is not my ideal choice but at least it has a quality output , at least the presets work without being swamped in fx to make them passable.

I think myself that the technology used in synths, the chips seem to be made cheaper and this has a knock on effect on sound quality.

--------------------
A gentleman is a man who can play "jump" on keyboards, but chooses not to


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5646
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538136 - 25/10/07 12:12 PM


We've known this for a while. The Trinity is _technically_ one of the best that Korg ever made, but it was fairly expensive. So they hacked and slashed internally and added silly stuff like arpeggiators and voila - the Triton. Feature rich, yes. Inherently good sound? Nah...

Same thing with the Rolands. The JD series were very slick and sounded awesome - ok, a slight upper mid sheen to the sounds, but it is a Roland. What's that Skippy? The JD series don't sell as many? Let's cut the quality of the engine and then play the 'cram as much into the box as we can' game and we can shift bucketloads! The real selling point for Roland synths in the 90s was the expansion cards - loads of presets so you can find the handful that actually sound any good.

But then we look at Kurzweil. How many people have thought 'this synth hasn't been updated in donkeys years - it must be rubbish'? Come on - hands up .. we all have at some point. Then we listen to the synth. And we hear a clean, clear, full sound with no silly lumps in the spectrum and we remember what a synth _should_ sound like.

No wonder we've had a resurgence of 'analogue' via VA synths. Take away the FX and most synths these days sound horrible. The manufacturers solution? Put more effects on!

In car terms, this is like the salesman saying : Yes this lovely Ferrari is a great car - look at the paint job, the special tyres, the shiny levers and fluffy dice. You don't need to know that we've only stuck a VW beetle engine in there...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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thejazzassassin



Joined: 11/04/06
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538149 - 25/10/07 12:37 PM
I've got a Little Phatty and that doesn't sound at all like the examples you've listed.

It sounds huge, warm, distinctive and thick.

I guess if you want a workstation that by essence of its design is a compromise then there will be some sacrifices.

If you want a lead synth, get one. If you want a sequencer, get one. If you want an orchestra, get a sample library.

There are still some fantastic modern synths out there.

--------------------
www.mikeandersonmusic.co.uk


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Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4531
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538153 - 25/10/07 12:40 PM
Good to hear you say that Dave...

I'm the first to admit that I dont know an oscillator from an LFO. I just dont really use synths ever, but a few years ago (when they were still expensive) I bought Triton because I needed 'those sorts of sounds' for the type of projects I was doing. What I noticed was that once you took off the chain of eight FX and the silly eq on every patch, you were left with...not much of anything. The basic sounds: Not good.

So I sold it.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


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Octopussy



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 562
Loc: Melbourneo
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538194 - 25/10/07 01:28 PM
Hi Dameo

IMO Korg are creating patches that will layer up and fit in a mix with the synths you're talking about but it's a different story with an MS2000.

The synth player in my band uses both a Karma and an MS2000. Entirely different animals from one another but between them there is a lot of coverage.

Perhaps by implication the M3 and the Roland synths aren't as textural or as rewarding in sound for a synth programmer wanting rich lead sounds that take up alot of the frequency range.

Peace,
octopussy


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: thejazzassassin]
      #538209 - 25/10/07 01:43 PM
Quote thejazzassassin:

I've got a Little Phatty and that doesn't sound at all like the examples you've listed.




Although that's a "modern synth"... strictly speaking, under the bonnet it's an old Moog with some tweakage. And very nice too.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Rob C]
      #538215 - 25/10/07 01:52 PM
Geddy from Rush was playing a Little Fatty on the recent tour.
(assuming it wasn't midied to a rack full of other stuff)

It sounded superb, huge sound that was warmer than hot buttered toast in a sleeping bag with a fresh hot water bottle.


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Paul Nagle
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Jumpeyspyder]
      #538230 - 25/10/07 02:32 PM
Whilst I don't strongly disagree with any of this, I would like to say that this obsession with fatness manifests its own problems. Too many fat things in a mix are about as welcome as too many fat people in a lift. You end up squishing them into some very weird shapes, or kicking some out entirely.

Just another perspective.

Paul (stroking his new Prophet's lardy thighs)

--------------------
http://www.bogusfocus.com/


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table for two
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Paul Nagle]
      #538242 - 25/10/07 02:51 PM
Always fun & informative to read your posts Paul
Wish yoou'd visit more often


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table for two
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538246 - 25/10/07 02:59 PM
With Tangerine Dream their timeless 70's stuff uses down to earth soounds.

Their stuuf that sounds dated uses all those fx laden presets from 80's, 90's synths.
Which at the time they with many oothers probably thought was so cutting edge & "modern".


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Grantsos



Joined: 07/09/06
Posts: 722
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: table for two]
      #538277 - 25/10/07 03:57 PM
I have a problem with VA PWM sounds.
They nearly always sound harsher and "hashier" as you go up the keys, whereas even my DCO analogues sound thick and silky - & you can get away with less filtering on them to retain detail.
The Trinity rack (and D-50) was cool for that overt digital thing IMO, and I didn't care to "upgrade" once I heard the Triton. In fact the only digital synths I've bought in 10 years are the Nord modulars and a TX81z.
I played with an again SH-1 recently, and for a cheapish single osc synth, that was one fat beast.
It does seem to be mostly a case of sticking bells-and-whistles on crap nowadays.


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Dameo



Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 150
Loc: sheffield.
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Octopussy]
      #538298 - 25/10/07 04:26 PM
This is the thing,
people i suppose like's lots of feature's.

I like a sound that is beutifull and musical.
Cheaper and cheaper made, this is reflected by the sound quality.

my all time fave synth's are :-
oberhiem xpander,
Emu EIII sampler,
Korg mono/poly,
Yamaha Dx7,
Korg trinity.

Not but i own any of these right now, but i have in the past.

Nobody will be bothered about hardware synth`s if they dont start to make output quality and musicalness a priority.

--------------------
A gentleman is a man who can play "jump" on keyboards, but chooses not to


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Paul Nagle
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: table for two]
      #538301 - 25/10/07 04:28 PM
Quote table for two:

With Tangerine Dream their timeless 70's stuff uses down to earth soounds.

Their stuuf that sounds dated uses all those fx laden presets from 80's, 90's synths.
Which at the time they with many oothers probably thought was so cutting edge & "modern".




I think it's sorta down to the size of your building blocks. With simple things *you* have to be creative. It's much harder to build something unique out of large, pre-shaped bricks. Once highly polyphonic multitimbral synths packed with samples, effects and patch memories etc. came on the scene, it became so much harder to use them and keep your own identity.

And at the same time came MIDI and the beginnings of computer-based MIDI 'sequencers' with their graphical arrange pages that relieved our ears of some of the work - in favour of our eyes getting in on the act. MIDI gave us polyphonic sequencing with high resolution so you could capture or edit a full performance. Previously the sequencer was easily spotted doing the 16-step blippy blip stuff. Ans, as a by-product, MIDI also screwed "live" performance for many, opening up a scary new era of MIDI backing that put the synthesizer back in the dark ages as an appreciated solo instrument. It had not long since escaped thanks to the Minimoog etc. Of course you still couldn't really fake guitars and drums etc. but now who really knew what the keyboard guys were doing? There was much frowning at the sudden rise in complexity and polish of live "performances" Ah, don't get me started. Oh.

Anyway, all these things had an impact on TD - and others - IMHO. There, that'll teach you to encourage me.



Paul

--------------------
http://www.bogusfocus.com/


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leslawrenson



Joined: 14/03/06
Posts: 2509
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538374 - 25/10/07 07:07 PM
I feel that I must put in a word here for the Alesis Andromeda A6. I have one of these. I also have a Prophet 5 and a Super Jupiter. The A6 can make every sound that the other two can make. That cannot be said of the other two.

I hear what people here are saying about modern synths, but it's all too easy to generalise. IMO the A6 is the best all-round analogue synth I have played. Ok, it's not a Moog; but then the Moog has always been a one-trick-pony as far as I am concerned. And it would be highly unfair to compare the A6 with any of the late great modular beasts. But it is a far lot more versatile than any other synth you can name.

I do agree, though, that a lot of the VA synths of recent years have been a bit thin-sounding and lacking in depth, to the extent that one just as well stick to software.

One area of advancement was the sampler, and I think it was a real shame that the likes of the AKAI Z Series got rail-roaded by software equivalents.

Still, that's progress for you...


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Tomás Mulcahy
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538401 - 25/10/07 08:23 PM
If you don't like sample based synths, then get a sampler, like an Emu, or one of the Kurzweils, as has been said. Tritons are for cabaret.

Nothing's changed, Korg made god awful stringers and organs back in the seventies "Oh it must be good, it's polyphonic". The thing is, when they make something really cool, it doesn't sell, like the Z1.

But if you want great sounding modern synths, they're still being made. Kyma, Nord Modular, Virus, Alesis Ion, the DSI stuff. If you want a workstation then apart from the Kurzweil, there's the Alesis Fusion. It sounds great and does lots of things very well.

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


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table for two
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Paul Nagle]
      #538415 - 25/10/07 08:57 PM
Quote Paul Nagle:


as a by-product, MIDI also screwed "live" performance for many,
opening up a scary new era of MIDI backing that put the synthesizer back in the dark ages as an appreciated solo instrument.
... . but now who really knew what the keyboard guys were doing?
There was much frowning at the sudden rise in complexity and polish of live "performances" Ah, don't get me started. Oh.

Anyway, all these things had an impact on TD - and others - IMHO. There, that'll teach you to encourage me.



Paul





Heya Paul


Yes those "live" performances.

Sadly JMJ went down that route, though aparently his band played live.
I see of his 90's output you rated his Oxygene 7-13 (1997).

He is though going back to all analogue live performance in samll intimate venues acroos europe
if his recent performance at alfacam is anything to go by.
Masses of analoggue synth drool on stage.


Went to see TD in Brixton in May 2005.
SAD
Apart from Chronozon and the piano intro to Riccochet.


Rogue Element http://www.rogue-element.uk.com/photos.htm .... noow there's a band that keeps it real.
One of the best 70's TD clone bands.


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table for two
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: leslawrenson]
      #538418 - 25/10/07 09:05 PM
Quote leslawrenson:

Alesis Andromeda A6. I have one of these. I also have a Prophet 5 and a Super Jupiter. The A6 can make every sound that the other two can make. That cannot be said of the other two.

IMO the A6 is the best all-round analogue synth I have played.





Ah yes the Andy !


Quote:

I do agree, though, that a lot of the VA synths of recent years have been a bit thin-sounding and lacking in depth,




The Norlead aparently one gritty machine for basses falls into this category .... thin, when compared to the rea thing.

Though, the Access Virus Ti is suposed to be easily the best of the VA'S .


Quote:

to the extent that one just as well stick to software.




... Reason4



I have come across one or two synth nuts whoo say the Andromeda, Access Virus Ti Polar, Reason is all they need.



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leafy productions
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538444 - 25/10/07 09:49 PM
my little bit of input - i have owned synths since about 91 and about 40 all told from osc oscars to some new ones.What i say i guess comes down to my own preference and so remains subjective but.....i kind of agree to a degree.

I found many newer synths have terrible quality - thin - cold - digital ( and not in a cool way ).I find softsynths even worse or alot .You can however make ANY synths sound cool with an spl vitalizer ( tube ones lovely ) and i own a novation supernova and Ks rack and run through the vitalizer tube they sound stunning in their own way.

A big problem appears to be outputs . .. take the korg karma . . . my god that synth has bad outputs when alongside the korg z1 , try the z1 card in a karma and do an a/b test - i did . . . scary how bad the karma sounds . . . the karma resonant filter - its like stredding a cat - horrible horrible filters yet the novation ks and sn filter are lovely at times - ok not quite as lovely as some vintage sh filter or Arp 2600 but cool at times.

I dont think its features that caused all this i think whats happenned is that mankind as an obsession with perfection . . . coders with perfection and the net result is that we lost the character.Theirs no character in digital accept ' pure ' .I owned a mk1 nord -sold and bough mk2 - sold mk2 and bought back mk1 as the sound got worse as they sold each newer model ( as their code got better . . . and then they engineer back in the flaws or wow and flutter of analogue - its very sad . . . .

Saddest thing is that theirs been one HUGE dumbing down . . . many artists i know now regard the softsynths as totally cool and ' sounding great ' yet they sound so thin . . . do an a/b on the Fm7 softsynth next to a dx7. . . you will be shocked (using same patches ) . . . weve been dumbed down and sold packaged and cold digital sounds as ' the new ' .Whats cool is that its meant now that if you know your hardware and how to use it you stand out a mile away.

Digital is death in many ways (though the early digital synths had flaws and character !) and people really need to go back and listen to some 70's / 80's /90's electronica or something and then wake up.

Softsynths are perfect demos of real synths and most modern synths are indeed cold and sterile 'perfect code ' .Some are ' ok ' - i have the Access ti and its cool.....but alot of the time just sounds to cold and souless . . .wih occasional moments of genius .

Some eye openers.

Compare . . .

dx7 to fm7 - same patches - same volumn
Korg m1 to legacy bundle M1
Wavetsation to legacy bundle ws

and then you will see why so many softsynths are worth little more than to be pirated and downloaded . . . its really sad whats happened as its dumbed down the listener / their ears and also many musicians.

Modern synth manufacturers or the oldies lots the way years back . . . but look at the modualr guys . . . e.a.r
livewire . . doepfer and dave smith etc etc . . . theres hope yet

Perfection is death . . . perfect production is sterile and lifeless often and perfect code /synths and design is not where people should be looking to go . . . the beautys in the flaws in all things.

Last moan . .

Korg.........terrible what they have done to their sound . . .really terrible.........Roland ? well i hated the fantom but Love the Vsynth and its FAT.......?so there are some modern synths that sound cool.....even digital.


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table for two
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538455 - 25/10/07 10:12 PM
I think one way out of the coldness is to mix acoustic instrument samples with synths samples and to choose synths sounds very carefully.

This is where sw comes into its own : the sample banks.

I bought Sonik Synth2 (£149) which has plenty of meat and veg sounds (keys, drums, bass, geetar, strings, ethnic etc) as well as electronic stuff ... total about 5000 sounds.
And ZeroG Nostalgia, which has samples of classic synths from 3 decades.


Ofcourse the sound desing element is largely remooved, but combined in the right way, the results are not so cold nor sterile.



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leslawrenson



Joined: 14/03/06
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Tomás Mulcahy]
      #538456 - 25/10/07 10:14 PM
Quote Tomás Mulcahy:



like the Z1.







Ah! Now you're talking!

This has got to be the best VA synth ever made! And it can do so much more.

God alone knows what happened to Korg after the Z1.


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leslawrenson



Joined: 14/03/06
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: table for two]
      #538459 - 25/10/07 10:18 PM
Quote table for two:



I think one way out of the coldness is to mix acoustic instrument samples with synths samples and to choose synths sounds very carefully.








You can, for example, record acoustic guitar, or electric bass, or vocals, or anything "real" into your favourite multitracker at the correct tempo for the song that you want to produce, and import that track as a wav into the sampler in Reason. It's a great way to get real sounds and vibes into a sterile digital environment, and to add a bit of character to your stuff.

Also, this trick in Reason kinda gets round the limitation that you can't record audio into it.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5646
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: leafy productions]
      #538465 - 25/10/07 10:35 PM
Quote sqeaking tamborine:


Compare . . .

Wavetsation to legacy bundle ws





Whoa there soldier! I agree with your point about cheap converters spoiling gear, but I reckon that it was earlier than the Karma. I've had every kind of Wavey that there has been and usually at least two at a time (still do in fact) and I was over the moon when they released the VSTi version. Now you don't have to use the slightly dodgy, early 90s converters any more - it just sounds _so_ much clearer, brighter and fuller. As Paul White puts it : There's a whole upper octave that's usable now! And the bass is less woolly sounding to me.

Some people defend sovereign nations, others a maiden's honour. Me, I'll stick up for the VST Wavestation every time!

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Arpangel
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538531 - 26/10/07 08:42 AM
Depends who's using them?

Tony.


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Wurlitzer
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Jack Ruston]
      #538804 - 26/10/07 06:47 PM
Quote Dave B:

The Trinity is _technically_ one of the best that Korg ever made, but it was fairly expensive. So they hacked and slashed internally and added silly stuff like arpeggiators and voila - the Triton. Feature rich, yes. Inherently good sound? Nah...




Quote The Producer Formerly Known As Jack:

Good to hear you say that Dave...

I'm the first to admit that I dont know an oscillator from an LFO. I just dont really use synths ever, but a few years ago (when they were still expensive) I bought Triton because I needed 'those sorts of sounds' for the type of projects I was doing. What I noticed was that once you took off the chain of eight FX and the silly eq on every patch, you were left with...not much of anything. The basic sounds: Not good.

So I sold it.

J




Good to hear BOTH of you say that! How has the triton managed to maintatin so much hype? I have to admit, I get told I need one so often that about once a year or so I capitulate and go play one somewhere in a music store, thinking I must have got it wrong and it's really a lot better than I thought. Within about 10 minutes I walk away laughing, insisting to myself that I won't get taken in next year...

Horrible.


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Sonic The Hedgehog



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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #538812 - 26/10/07 07:07 PM
http://www.prophet64.com/

Everyone should have one. Check out the modded machines ones too.

I have 2 more C64s in the post.

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/fourtrackfrontier


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young david



Joined: 25/11/06
Posts: 255
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dave B]
      #538884 - 26/10/07 10:15 PM
Quote Dave B:

Quote sqeaking tamborine:


Compare . . .

Wavetsation to legacy bundle ws





Whoa there soldier! ... Me, I'll stick up for the VST Wavestation every time!




Yep, I have the Legacy Digital bundle as well and A/B'd it with my M1 before selling it, and I found the VSTi version sounded just the same only slightly better.

Tried a Karma out once though & was fairly underwhelmed.

--------------------
http://youngdavid.net


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~Paul



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1793
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Sonic The Hedgehog]
      #538897 - 26/10/07 11:29 PM
Quote Sonic The Hedgehog:

http://www.prophet64.com/

Everyone should have one. Check out the modded machines ones too.

I have 2 more C64s in the post.




Blimey! Quite frankly, im stunned! Not only because anyone would still develop anything for the C64 in 2007, but actually develop something that has a genuine use in 2007 too. Impressive!
I still have a C64 tucked away somewhere.. I guess this makes it worth at least a fiver more now
I would try it myself, but these days Im attempting to use less gear, not more.
Which brings me neatly back on topic..

This argument is a little like CD's vs MP3's, or similar.. CD's to me sound better than MP3's without a doubt. But i still find myself listening to MP3's more than CD's these days (well, AAC's and other compressed music formats anyway). Why? Well its just so bloody convenient, isnt it!? For the small trade off in sound quality, I can carry my entire music collection around with me, and have near enough instant access to any tune, be it on my iPod, on my computer (connected to hifi) or in the car. Great!
Suddenly routing around for a CD on my shelves seems like a chore in comparison.

Synths in a roundabouts way are much the same. Software isnt quite as good as hardware, and digital hardware still isnt quite as good as good ol analogue hardware. The latter sounds better, but the former is massively more convenient to use. Hmm..

I've have stacks of pretty decent hardware littered about the house & mostly gathering dust now. So these days im trying to get stuck in to Reason 4. Its sheer ease of use and convenience mean i dont spend hours and hours configuring everything and tracking down problems, and I can spend more time doing what I was supposed to be doing in the first place, which is making music.
There is little use having a great sounding synth, if ultimately, you are inhibited from making music with it because of its antiquated technicalities. This is even more the case with multiple such synths, as they all become, in a way, worse than the sum of them all put together and thus more of a pain to use at once.

Just my 2 mhz worth..

Paul


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electrotimba



Joined: 03/09/04
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Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dave B]
      #538903 - 27/10/07 12:01 AM
Quote Dave B:

Quote sqeaking tamborine:


Compare . . .

Wavetsation to legacy bundle ws





Whoa there soldier! I agree with your point about cheap converters spoiling gear, but I reckon that it was earlier than the Karma. I've had every kind of Wavey that there has been and usually at least two at a time (still do in fact) and I was over the moon when they released the VSTi version. Now you don't have to use the slightly dodgy, early 90s converters any more - it just sounds _so_ much clearer, brighter and fuller. As Paul White puts it : There's a whole upper octave that's usable now! And the bass is less woolly sounding to me.

Some people defend sovereign nations, others a maiden's honour. Me, I'll stick up for the VST Wavestation every time!



The original Legacy is my fav software synth . Regarding Wavestation, I couldnt believe it, comparing to original was so happy to get rid of those horrible keys- I had all WS models so I know what I am talking about.
The workstations like Motif and Korgs are made/equed/tuned to be used as............ workstations. I could never find, tweak a lead voice from any of those,ever.
Want fat and nasty modern synth- Dave Smith Evolver.
Clavia G2 is another modern synth that can be thin or fat depending what you make out of it.
I dont expect anything from those Tritons and Motifs, they are made for massive market of cover bands and arrangers. Reason with decent controller makes more flexible sketch station then any of those.


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Arpangel
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Joined: 12/07/03
Posts: 5527
Loc: London
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: electrotimba]
      #538936 - 27/10/07 08:28 AM
Wavestations are almost free in Cornflakes now, all types, so you may as well buy a real one, for the price of a curry and pint these days.

Tony.


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Dameo



Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 150
Loc: sheffield.
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #541992 - 05/11/07 12:03 PM
I did like the sound of the andromeda,
that is one really cool synth but went for a
jomox sunsyn instead.
i also like the korg plug-ins they are really nice sounding,
but again the sound just doesent breath, i am not a total analog
synth nut but i do love old stuff, last year i had a korg trident mkII for a while and that really blew my socks off

You can get a thick sound on new synths, but when a sound is generated, its the variation and movement in the sound that makes a lot of difference.

I use softsynths like absynth and reaktor and there is a place for all new sounds with the old, It would be awfull if the synths that came out didnt evolve and we only had prophet 5`s and memorymoogs but , i need to see some quality
synths coming out otherwise i will just keep getting old stuff. The main synth manufacturers seem to be losing their way to me and sounding worse.

The new prophet looks nice through(ive not heard it yet!)!

--------------------
A gentleman is a man who can play "jump" on keyboards, but chooses not to


Edited by Dameo (05/11/07 12:47 PM)


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9465
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Arpangel]
      #542065 - 05/11/07 02:13 PM
Quote arpangel:

Wavestations are almost free in Cornflakes now, all types, so you may as well buy a real one, for the price of a curry and pint these days.



Couldn't agree more. It's almost indecent not to plug a Wavestation SR into your rack for the pitiful price they go for.

I'm no purist, and I'm happy to use analogue, digital, VSTi, or whatever to get the job done. But it never fails to make me smile when a young band first hear one of my old analogue synths, or the snarl of my Hammond through a valve pre-amp, or (cue choir of angelic voices) the purr of my Moog Taurus pedals. The look of pennies dropping is priceless. So *that's* what analogue is all about...

Or maybe I *am* just getting old?

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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redleicester
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Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: The Elf]
      #542068 - 05/11/07 02:16 PM
Tell me about it... been trying to sell my SR for ages, and not a whisper of a taker

Love my new V-Synth GT though.... bleeps and bloops galore!

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3068
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Jumpeyspyder]
      #542069 - 05/11/07 02:25 PM
Quote Jumpeyspyder:

Geddy from Rush was playing a Little Fatty on the recent tour.
(assuming it wasn't midied to a rack full of other stuff)





Yeah I noticed this, I don't think it was MIDI'ed for most of the set (e.g. the big portamento sweeps in Entre Nous, they'd have been done on a Moog or Oberheim at the time, so perfect Phatty fodder, likewise the big chords in Subdivisions etc) but for some of the 80s PPG stuff he did, like Distant Early Warning, I bet he was using samples.

But wasn't it good to see him not surrounded by hundreds of f***ing keyboards! I was unlucky enough to see them struggle through a set on the Hold Your Fire tour, weighed down with bloody technology.

This time round they were absolutely incredible.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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The Elf
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Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9465
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #542092 - 05/11/07 02:48 PM
The lead sound for 'Subdivisions' was spot on - a silky smooth sound. Almost made me want to trade my Mini for a Phatty! Almost...

I actually love to see bands weighed down by technology! A obscene semi-circle of synths and keyboards is still a beautiful thing to see - and naming them all gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the gig to start!

Anyone notice the screen with Geddy's lyric prompts on it? Pity the poor guy who sits there every night scrolling through those for him. Sheesh!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3068
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: The Elf]
      #542105 - 05/11/07 03:08 PM
Quote The Elf:

The lead sound for 'Subdivisions' was spot on - a silky smooth sound. Almost made me want to trade my Mini for a Phatty! Almost...

I actually love to see bands weighed down by technology! A obscene semi-circle of synths and keyboards is still a beautiful thing to see - and naming them all gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the gig to start!

Anyone notice the screen with Geddy's lyric prompts on it? Pity the poor guy who sits there every night scrolling through those for him. Sheesh!




Missed the lyric screen... mostly cos I was too busy jumping around and singing along to it all myself. But strangely enough, the closest I ever got to the keyboard sound on Subdivisions was using the NI FM7 Xpress keyboards plug-in, i.e. digital model of a digital synth. And 'phat' with it.

Ironic?

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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ASG
member


Joined: 20/01/03
Posts: 302
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: The Elf]
      #542111 - 05/11/07 03:18 PM
Quote The Elf:

I actually love to see bands weighed down by technology! A obscene semi-circle of synths and keyboards is still a beautiful thing to see - and naming them all gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the gig to start!


You mean you didn't go look at Lerxsts Barbie doll collection.

Quote:

Anyone notice the screen with Geddy's lyric prompts on it? Pity the poor guy who sits there every night scrolling through those for him. Sheesh!


I'd imagine it's automatically synced somehow.

Regards, Andrew

(going through a major Rush phase at the moment)


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Stevedog



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 3002
Loc: Mercia
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #542127 - 05/11/07 03:53 PM
I'm a sort of interested interloper here. Primarily, because i work in a genre where synths sounding like synths is very much part of the sound. Synths to me, anyway, come in two flavours, thos that do "whibble" and the rest.

The rest often sound, to my ears, like they are just aimed at the *Enya* with 3 fingers crowd.. If not that sound they just seem to be not very good samples of other *real* instruments..

My favourite *modern* sounding synth is the freebie "Crystal". Stupidly easy to programme and actually a bloody good sound.

--------------------
nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog


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Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 2967
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #542138 - 05/11/07 04:31 PM
+1 Ya, Crystal is great, even disrgarding the fact that it's free. And it is easy to program too even though it's wildly different. Excellent envelopes.

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


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SecretSam
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Joined: 29/10/02
Posts: 1566
Loc: Officially, I do not exist.
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: Dameo]
      #542229 - 05/11/07 07:32 PM
My pal brought an old Roland analogue monosynth around some time last year. SH1000 ? Something like that. Lots of preset switches.

It weighed a ton, wouldn't stay in tune, and tonally my Virus B did to it what the pidgeons to to Nelson in Trafalgar Square. From a very great height. On everything - basses, leads, strings, brass .... I think the old Roland has stayed in its rather nice fender-looking suitcase ever since.

Give me a vintage monosynth and I'll swap it for a modern Nord or Virus, and buy beer and sweets with the change.

BTW - as you have collectively mentioned freebie soft synths, do try the shareware Karma FX synth. It is staggeringly good. Easyish to program, good presets, rock-solid stability, wonderful sound. And if you donate US$20, they are really happy.

--------------------
Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.


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leslawrenson



Joined: 14/03/06
Posts: 2509
Loc: Outside Mothercare
Re: Modern synths are rubbish? new [Re: SecretSam]
      #542291 - 05/11/07 11:06 PM
Quote SecretSam:

My pal brought an old Roland analogue monosynth around some time last year. SH1000 ? Something like that. Lots of preset switches.

It weighed a ton, wouldn't stay in tune, and tonally my Virus B did to it what the pidgeons to to Nelson in Trafalgar Square.





I don't know anything about the SH1000 so I can't comment on it. But the SH101 is simply superb! As good as a Mini Moog on it's day. I also have an Access Virus C, and good though that is (very good for a VA, in fact), the filter on the SH101 is one of the best you will ever hear.

But, then again, the Virus can do stuff that is simply impossible on the 101.

It really is horses for courses.


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