Hi there,

I'm looking for a good general-purpose Keyboard Controller. It will be used for keyboard input, but also as a controller for BFD drums, i.e. pads needed.

Currently I'm looking at the Novation 49SL which seems to be getting good reviews, and the Akai MPK49, which no-one seems to own !

Anyone got any advice ? (Preferably from someone who's actually used the kit - spec-reading can be very tedious and misleading !)

Thanks in anticipation

I've decided to wait on the Akai. My local shop (a Guitar Center...and I live in the town where Musician's Friend is located...talk about close to the distribution!) is expecting to get a supply they can actually sell - rather than just use to fill pre-orders - on the 8th of January. It looks to be a bit more work to set up than the Novation, but that assumes that the Novation's automation works as advertised, and frankly that seems a bit "plug and pray" to me.

I can get by with my crappy little 39-key controller and decade-old Alesis performance synth until then! Akai pads are, I think, the best, and as I like to do a lot of my percussion fills and accents in real time, that's a big plus for me. So is the arpeggiator (although I just got Reason 4, and am getting a handle on RPG8).

Oooh...first post!

--------------------
We fly, of course...

Hi

The automap templates on the Novation is supposed to be the mutts nuts :
instant knobs and slider assigment to a whole load of sequencer, soft synths, plugins.
Can create ones own templates too.


Also worth a look, Novation REMOTE 25 SL COMPACT £199.


A few of the pros on forums use Novation controllers and like them, specifically the REMOTE ZERO SL £189,
which is an SL sans keyboard, x-y pad & joystick.


did reviews of both zero sl & 25 sl.


I personally am trying to save up for a Novation X Station 25 £289 with its onboard 2 xlr swithable phantom mics, ks synth, daw control, automap templates.

It seems as though the Akai isn't really "out there" yet, even though it was supposedly released months ago. That would explain why no-one on the planet seems to own one ! (Or are at least keeping the results to themselves - interesting ...)
Thanks for the tip re the Novation X-Station. Since I'm a guitarist, (hence the "Twangman" moniker), I'm not really interested in the thing having a built-in synthesizer as well, as it will only ever be used with software synths on my music PC. Also, it doesn't seem to have the pads for driving BFD.
It still seems to be a non-decisive head-to-head between the Novation 49SL and the shy Akai MPK49. Anyone else out there with any views ?

The Akai MPD16 & MPD24 MIDI drum controller pads seems to have got a decent review.

More so the MPD24, a 9 in Music Tech.

I'd say the pads on the MPK49 will likely be similar.

I had actually considered a pads-only controller, but having lent my ancient Roland D5 synth to my son, I'm hankering after the ability to "play tunes" when I've a mind to ! Fair point about the pads themselves though.

To me the MPK49, looks like a MPD24 with a keyboard & pitch mod wheels bolted on and 4 less drum pads.

Given that the MPD24 is £125, £270 for the MK49 seems a tad excessive, £225 would have been moore reasonable.


Might be worth playing on the MPK49 to check its semi weighted keys dont have that
metal contact sound with the keybed as found on cheaper kb controllers.

I agree. The cheapest I've seen the MPK49 advertised for is £266, but of course there's postage to add to that. Roll on the January sales !?

Hello all, this is my first post here. I was perusing this thread and thought I could shed some light on the Novation Remote SL Compact. I got one for Xmas, and must say it is pretty sick. Thus far, I've only used it with Reason 4.

The automap works as advertised, and is worth its weight in gold. I fire up Reason, the Novation detects its having been turned on, and BOOM, ever module I select in Reason is intelligently automapped instantly. If I create a redrum, the eight pads are instantly mapped to the first eight samples in redrum, if I create a Subtractor, the knobs immediately correlate to ADSR, filters, etc. Page up/down buttons give you even more options and you can see what is being controlled by each knob on the LCD display. The transport controls work like a champ, etc. The semi-weighted keys feel great and even the mod and pitch wheels are quite solid - unlike the thin plastic feel you often find.

I did however stumble on this board while looking for answers to a couple of problems I'm having. I think my unit is defective as it isn't recognized by my PC's or my Mac's about 4/5 of the time. I have to plug it in via USB, unplug, do it again, unplug over and over until finally the system recognizes it. Still, I'm certain this is a defect as Novation is a well established company with a rich legacy of fantastic products. They've been on holiday since 12/24 so I've yet to speak with Tech support.

The other thing, which if I can get it to work is absolutely sick is the speed dial. This is a knob that automatically maps to whatever parameter your mouse is over.

Anyway, I HIGHLY recommend this device despite the issue I'm having with it as when it is on it is definitely worth every penny and the instant gratification with Automap saves literally hours of time.

If anyone hasn't seen the little demo on this, check it out here:

http://www.novationmusic.com/us/products/midi_control/remote_sl_compact/?r =promos

Hi Psymonkey,
Thanks for that insight - very interesting.
You threw me at first, referring to it as pretty sick - either you meant pretty slick, or I'm just not trendy enough !
How do you get on with the pads ? I keep getting conflicting reports about them.
In the absence of any user-reports on the Akai, the Novation is looking like the one to go for.

Sick, slick - either will work ;-) Sick in my region of the world means incredible! :-D

As for the pads, I can't really claim to have much knowledge on those. I've never owned an MPC or any other trigger mechanism for that matter. I never really thought that was my style, which was obviously due to poor judgement as I'm loving the ease of tapping in my beats rather than step-programming. They have a lot of sensitivity control and seem to work quite well as far as I can tell. As should be expected, the unit needs to be on a solid surface with no give. I had mine on my slide-out keyboard tray initially and was having some issues getting the sound I wanted out of the pads, same with couch-production which I tend to do with the laptop, but when on a solid surface they work great.

I knew it was me not being trendy enough !
You're a star - thanks.
It's my birthday very soon, so I think I'll go shopping !

I have a Remote 61 SL and I like it, especially the key action having wasted my money a year or two ago on an Edirol PCR-M80, nearly half the keyboard of which has completely given up working (not an uncommon problem it turns out but the unit is now out of warranty).

But I'm amused to see controversy over those drum pads! I'm not sure what people are expecting of mini sized pads on any controller except to be able to tap in the odd percussion effect. I saw Thomas Dolby using one recently live to do just that and I can envisage myself doing something similar soon. But for programming actual drum parts with full expression - well surely that's beyond any controller with pads this size? I wouldn't consider using anything less than something like a Roland Octopad or similar if programming percussion this way is something that's important. For what they are, I can't see any significant reason to complain about the Novation pads!

--------------------
http://www.partyfearsthree.co.uk

Hi Steve A,
Good to get another response from an actual user, thank you.
Yes, the pads do seem to be a controversial issue; I think it's one of those things that you've got to try for yourself - horses for courses and all that ! This particular product line always seems to be well-thought-of; it's only the pads which divide opinions.
Since I've only ever entered drum patterns by programming them, I'm hoping to get more "feel" by using pads, and I think that under those circumstances the pads have got to be hopeless to not be an improvement !

Plug & pray that is rather accurate description of SL. I liked it and it is not bad for the studio but the plug &pray is no good for stage. Keys are excellent. faders are too short, pots- rubbish and the pads absolutely good for nothing. I used it on stage and it is too unreliable for that so I got rid of it a year ago. New Edirols are very good but I dont like working without proper display , hate the digits only so got rid of it too. Liked the Compact idea till trying it recently, Novation didnt fix anything, still midi traffic jams are serious issue, and scrolling though menu is not my thing, so real SL is better.
I ordered Akai hope it comes tomorrow and will see how good it is. I already tried it but next day it was gone from local shop so I had to order from Absolute music, best price I could find in Europe..
I liked the keys, harder, stiffer then Novation but I like them, specially that the prototype I tried before had horrible keys. I hate the stupid 16 pads concept, since I dont work with music dividing octave in 16 (is there any?) the 12 pads idea with 3 banks is very appealing.
The rotaries felt great, also faders but who knows maybe it is all rubbish, until I really work with it, cant say.

Hi Electrotimba,
I was on the point of buying a Novation, but having read your comments, I think I'll hold off a while.
I will only be using the keyboard in the studio, but I'm taking note of your comments.
I'll be interested to see how you get on with the Akai.

I suspect that the midi traffic jam ( the notes kind of hang-nothing happens, then burst all at once) might be problem they will never solve, the suspect- the display, more exactly display update delay, not too big deal in studio but definitely bad for stage and if it is the cause of midi traffic jams then it is serious problem. Seems even worse with Compact, in fact the salesman got very skeptical while we were testing, the randomness of what display show and those sometimes 2-3 sec delays... his conclusion was, OK for amateurs but he wont dare to recommend it to more demanding users (they just introduced 30 days refund policy so dont want too many returns which mean loses) Nothing of the kind with Korg kontrol 49 displays which update immediately. I might be wrong, but that is what I guess might be the source of problems.
I dont expect much from Akai, the truth is there is no good controller yet, just some better then others. The choice should depend on particular needs.
From Novation line SL 37 is the best, size, price, what it can do etc.

Yes, I can see that this would be absolutely useless for stage work. 2 - 3 secs delay is ludicrous.
Since I'd only be using it for the studio, that shouldn't be too much of a problem, but I'd still be interested in thoughts on the Akai. I hope it's okay for you.

The reviews of the Novations i've read have not mentioned the jam.

The X Station has been out the longest, decent reviews of it out there, no pads ofcourse.

Personally iw ould tyry all these out in a shop b4 buying.

No, that's a fair point - I'd not heard of the "jam" before either; but then it's only actual users who would experience it in a real-world situation.
The problem with the other Novation range, from my point of view, is indeed the lack of pads.
Ain't life complicated !

I had a read of Harmony Central's user reviews of the X Station.

Apart from one user, who put a negative review for the heck of it, and doesn't seem to have used it

Its got excellent reviews.

Now if only it had pads 4U

You took the words right out of my mouth !
Why is it that everything we want can only be partly catered for ? Why's life not perfect ?
Happy New Year all !

I've been using my trusty old Korg T1 as a controller, and it's approaching 18 years old already. I can't give it up because I love the action, but it doesn't have expression pedal input, that sort of thing. Has anyone found a decent 88-key weighted keyboard that they've been really happy with? I'm put off by the M-Audio Keystation 88 because it doesn't have aftertouch...

Kerry

Hi there

Studiologic Fatar vmk88 plus.

Else Alesis Fusioin 8hd workstation performsnce synth : review in user reports

Hey, thanks for that -- that StudioLogic has some nice reviews behind it!

Kerry

This is an interesting post. I can tell that most people are a bit cautious about this new Akai MPK49 controller that we keep seeing in magazines (and it DOES look very cool!) but we have yet to physically "see"!! Makes you wonder.......but as a proud owner of the Korg Kontrol 49 I can tell you that thing comes up HUGE when it comes to playability and of course MIDI control. Between the keys, knobs, faders and pads there really isn't anything it can't do. When you run Reason 3 or 4, and see how it communicates with the Kontrol49 - it really is amazing. Every little scribble strip on the mixer shows up on the Korg49. Then the LCD's changes parameters based on whatever device you are controlling. You sort of have to see it to understand what I mean but its very smooth. Also with Ableton Live it REALLY helps to have the pads change colors so you can tell what is actve and what isn't. Korg screwed up the microKontrol -which is basically unplayable & almost toy-like (25 keys)... - but they nailed it with the Kontrol49. I may be biased towards Korg but in all fairness I hear that Novation's Automap system is pretty good for those new controllers they have, too, but I've never used it. Good luck in your search.. Remember - as long as it does what YOU need for it to do, you can't go wrong.

One more thing....I scrolled and saw a number of comments about pads on veraious controllers. Let me make this quick and painless : if you want MPC-style pads to hammer out beats, get an MPC. Even on this new Akai MPK49 I will bet the farm that it's pads will not have the same feel of an MPC. The 12-16 pads on most controllers are used as triggers for all sorts of things besides drums. I'm telling you those pads come in handy using Live and ESPECIALLY Reason 4. I only use these in a desktop environment, never for live performance (I am a producer). Maybe I'm a freak but I actually prefer the actual keyboard for my drums (not my computer keyboard -my Kontrol49!)
As I stare at the Akai Professional homepage - and look at this MPK49 - I say the Kontrol 49 has it beat for two reasons: the Akai has no LCD screens to show the parameter you are controlling, and the pads don't change colors to show what is active/inactive. Interestingly, if you pull up photos of both controllers to see them side by side, it seems clear where Akai got their design idea for the MPK49 from!!! WOW!

OK - I'm done now.

KP -Mpls, MN
Catch 22 Music Productions
www.catch-22music.com (go to my "video" page and you'll get an idea of how the colors on the pads work on the Kontrol49)
http://www.myspace.com/httpwwwmyspacecomkpinnix

Just thought I'd post if only to prove the MPK49 really does exist . I pre-ordered one and it's been here a few weeks now, although it's had very little use thus far. If there's anything specific people want to know about it I'll be happy to try and help but I'm a bit of a newbie to most of this stuff so you'll have to bear with me. I can say that the build quality seems a fair few notches above other controllers I've seen and I've had fun messing around a little bit with the note repeat and arpeggiator, I can see those being pretty handy to have in hardware. The keyboard is a bit of a letdown though, it feels very springy and much less satisfying to use that the one on my old Novation KS5 which was previously on controller duty. They're both semi-weighted but there's a huge difference in the feel. The menus and screen are fine to work with and it's easy enough to reprogram the MIDI CCs for your own presets which was the one thing I did spend a bit of time doing straight away. The pads are excellent (though my skills with them are a long way from that). The manual is available for download so if you want to know any technical stuff you're probably better off reading that than asking me because all I'll do is go running to it anyway .

Overall it seems like decent value to me, I didn't really want to have to get various controllers for doing different things and this seemed the most attractive all-in-one solution. I'm happy with it and hopefully I still will be when I've spent more time with it.

The KK49 has plenty of decent reviews, including decent user reviews in harmony central.

Now if only it has audio ins

Hey guys, what are you doing to me !!!!
Just when I'd more or less decided to go for the Novation, up comes an actual Akai-user AND a recommendation for Korg.
I think I'd better start all over again.
I've got to go and host a party now, but be sure I'll have some searching questions tomorrow ...
Seriously - this is great stuff, and just what a forum such as this should be doing.
Thanks very much for everyone's input.
Twangman

Good luck with all of this Twangman! On the bright-side, there appear to be a lot of excellent options out there in roughly the same price-range. Anyway, I've experienced nothing of the MIDI traffic-jams or delays with the display updating that were spoken of on my Remote SL Compact. Perhaps that is just a non-issue in Reason, but its fictional from my experience, albeit minimal in relation to the massive amounts of possible scenarios in which a controller might be used.

Guess I sort of forgot about price considerations. If you want a great 49 key controller -which would likely be any one of the suggestions you've gotten thus far - expect to spend around $300 -$500 (US). Good news: it appears the Kontrol49, Remote SL Compact & MPK49 are each $399. Bad news: you truly have your work cut out for you in terms of making a decision!

Let me add that I actually used most those keyboards some of them for several hundred and thousand hours.

Anyway the Akai just arrived and the pads are superb, also all the MPC functionalities 12 level, note repeat, swing etc, etc. It is heavy and solid- if it plus or minus depend on user. Worked with Live and Reason almost out of the box. I had 4 Novations and 2 arrived already with defects so big + for Akai
My opinion:
Korg the best Reason solution- though mind you, no aftertouch,
Edirol- but only the newest- the best price,good keys,but no proper display.
Novation best keys and the worst everything else. Better old model, manual only but they work.
P.S. I just noticed you have BFD, go AKAI then, it is absolutely amazing with good multisampled drums- I have Akai, Korg, and M audio pads but with this one is another level. That is what I am playing since it arrived an hour ago, cant get my hands off it.

Edited by electrotimba (02/01/08 02:11 PM)

Well here we are another year on (!) and I still haven't made a decision. With all the great views now coming through it's made me realise just how different our individual expectations and experiences are !

It's great to hear some actual Akai-user responses - it seems I wasn't the only one being a little hesitant about them. At the moment, I think the Akai has its nose in front.

A number of you mention Reason as a host; I'm actually using Cubase 4. Are there any software issues to consider ?

Keep the comments coming - this is great.

Quote electrotimba:

---

I had 4 Novations and 2 arrived already with defects
Novation best keys and the worst everything else. Better old model, manual only but they work.

---

Heya E

If you could mention which novation modles and what the problems were that would be v. useful.

Couple of the big hitters here use the novation zero sl and are happy with it.

The X Station .. that i would like to buy ... has had generally excellent reviews all round, including user reviws at harmony cental.

Quote table for two:

---

Quote electrotimba:

---

I had 4 Novations and 2 arrived already with defects
Novation best keys and the worst everything else. Better old model, manual only but they work.

---

Heya E

If you could mention which novation modles and what the problems were that would be v. useful.

Couple of the big hitters here use the novation zero sl and are happy with it.

The X Station .. that i would like to buy ... has had generally excellent reviews all round, including user reviws at harmony cental.

---

SL had wrongly wired pads (3 pcs) it got repaired but says something about quality control, there were few hundred if not more sold like that.
X station came with broken headphone jack. Before sending it off, opened it and fixed it myself with superglue. I could see how cheaply it is made. I like the synth sound, it is more mellow then other VA, loved playing it but after recordings,listening analytically noticed audio artifacts, later found on www that it is X station illness, making it unusable as synth other then live jamming.
Novation is not so solid like Akai but advantage- very light if you are very careful then can be usefull for long.
Since the synth has this problem and the X station layout is not so clean for DAW use, I would recommend standard Remote, you can always get V synth cheap, perhaps even free included with Remote. Remote 49 is light, compact and inexpensive.
MPK 49 is better then expected, like it everyday more(just 2 days) tight keys, rotaries and faders like on real hardware. It will be my main till something better comes out. It is solid,the metal plate gives it stiffness, not flexible- in physical sense like M audios or Novations- same time it is not so mega heavy like CMEs (of which I had all models). Dont forget new Edirols, if you can live with digi display (I cant so got rid of it) overall better then Novation or Korg Kontrol but... no display.

Hi Electrotimba,

I take it you like your Akai then !

It really does look like a toss up between the Novation and the Akai. Since you say the Akai's pads are good, and since they're both about the same price, it's really down to weight, stability, cosmetics etc.

As I've said before, it's great to have comments from an actual user. Thanks for that.

Twangman

My MPK49 should be coming in any day now... Can't wait

Today I rang my local supplier, enquiring about the Novation Remote Compact 49SL, to be told that they had all been recalled by the manufacturer, with a keyboard problem ! So that explains the problem(s) that at least one contributor had been complaining of, and is a salutory warning for those of us who may have been considering buying one; apparently they'll be back in circulation, (hopefully fault-free), about "mid January".

Twangman

Quote twangman47:

---

Today I rang my local supplier, enquiring about the Novation Remote Compact 49SL, to be told that they had all been recalled by the manufacturer, with a keyboard problem ! So that explains the problem(s) that at least one contributor had been complaining of, and is a salutory warning for those of us who may have been considering buying one; apparently they'll be back in circulation, (hopefully fault-free), about "mid January".

Twangman

---

I've seen people on some forums complaining about the MPK49 because of driver/firmware problems as well. Apparently there's an update that fixes most of the problems but you can't run the update on a Mac for some reason lol.. Good thing I use a PC I guess. Got to love when manufacturers release things without properly testing them.