hi. Currently i have medium sound rental company. Located in indonesia. Now i want to spread my business into recording live event. N i want to learn more about equipment and the diagram. Now i have allen heath gl4800 48ch, ML4000 56ch (seperate 32ch and 24 ch), behringer mx3282x for the mixer.
Should i buy another mixing console? What other euipment i should buy?
Thank you

you will probably want channel splitters if you dont already have them. so then you can split the signal to go from stage to foh, monitors and hard disk recorder. you wont need another desk depending on how you want to do it,

if you want to mix it live then you may need another desk to mix down on, but if you want to mix down later in a studio then no you will only need a hard disk recorder and channel splitters.

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Live Sound and Studio Engineer

It depends at what level you want to do this -

Cheap and chearful is direct out into a budget priced harddisk recorder like the Mackie or Tascam things and kept next to the FOH desk. This is not very reliable and not all these recorders will spin out B-Wav files onto a DVD, Blueray, or removeable harddisk.

Professional, but not too expensive, would be a flightcased rig of Soundscape and separate splitter boxes and mic pre-amps. This gives you 32-track recording and is fairly reliable.

The usual standard fully pro rig in the US is four Radar machines ganged together and recording at 96kHz. Splitting passive on stage and then active in the mobile truck, feeding a desk designed for life on the road (e.g. Raindirk) and with 5.1 mix-down for live broadcast. The sheer volume of data means that you will be using the removable drives.

Quote Paul Supersonix Studios:

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if you want to mix it live then you may need another desk to mix down on, but if you want to mix down later in a studio then no you will only need a hard disk recorder and channel splitters.

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i do have my channel splitter. but when i build it, i didnt think far enough, so i split my input channel just for monitor and FOH.
so if want to mix it live, what would be the great but affordable for this situation?

Quote The Red Bladder:

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It depends at what level you want to do this -
The usual standard fully pro rig in the US is four Radar machines ganged together and recording at 96kHz. Splitting passive on stage and then active in the mobile truck, feeding a desk designed for life on the road (e.g. Raindirk) and with 5.1 mix-down for live broadcast. The sheer volume of data means that you will be using the removable drives.

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wow, i think i love that system. what kind of equipment i should buy? coz maybe on march i will go to frankfurt for music messe. so maybe i could buy some equipment that u tell me.

Pro audio gear is not usually on show at the Musikmesse, try the AES in Amsterdam a couple of months later!

If you are really interested in professional mobile recording at 'A-List' level, then you have to think in terms of two of EVERYTHING. 96-track recording is the standard and usually means 2 x 48 track. You will invariably be working with video, so you will need two word-clock boxes and, of course all the usual UPSs, generators and that kind of thing. Not counting the truck and the acoustic treatment, you are looking at an investment of $500,000+. More and more mobiles are being done on trailers in Europe, relying on hiring in a truck-tractor unit just for the gig.

Splitters - in an ideal world, passive splitters would divide into four (FOH, Monitors, Mobile and something else like TV live mix). That would make them unbelievably expensive, so the easy way is for you to use what you have and then put an active split or better still, a mic pre with more than one output, each output being driven by a relatively cheap line-driver chip.

Most people look at the task of recording at that level as being simple ("I just need a multitrack and some cable and a desk!") when the reality is very complex.

The number of tracks required become crazy! A friend of mine uses up to 16 audience mics (5 at flight-control, 5 on the perimeter and the rest shot-gun at key parts of the crowd) so one you have fed another 16 drum mics and maybe 12 keys and you are already at 44 channels and still have the vocals and all the guitars and God knows what else (playback?) to deal with.

That may sound like OTT, but if that is what the act asks for, that is what one gives them. And an 'A-Lister' will ask for that kind of set-up.

I would suggest that you dip your toe in the water with something that can be used off the FOH desk (direct-outs) - but will be of use, should you want to expand and do things on a grander scale. Perhaps one Radar or a Soundscape unit. The new Tascam might also be of interest, though I do not know it.

Try starting with a flightcased, FOH affair and then perhaps a mobile based in a larger car-trailer that can be pulled by a 4x4, if things work out.

damn!! $500.000!!??

ok maybe i would stay on the ground . Since this is my first experience for doing this, what is the first thing i should buy? Coz develop business in recording, should take step by step.
This afternoon i just bought m-audio firewire. The salesman said that this is for the beginner.

I'd be tempted to look at something like an Alesis HD24 as a lower priced alternative to Radar. Do you have direct channel outputs on your FOH mixer? If so, you could probably plug those into the input of your recorder to start with.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Well currently im using allen heath GL 4800 48 ch, allen heath ML4000 32 ch and ML 4000 24 ch. Which one do you prefer?

Well i just browse my self on the net and i found some product for recording mixing conxole. Which one should i buy?
a. Allen heath GS3000
b. Behringer eurodesk
c. Mackie digital series
d. Roland VM
e. Tascam TM-D4000
Any suggestion? Maybe the usage for the mixer can be recording and live mixing.

ok...here is what I would buy for 24 track live recording on a budget! the radar systems etc would be great, but very expensive.

Rack splitter
You'd need 2 of these to split 24 mic channels. Approx €3000 altogether.

Focusrite Octopre LE
You'd need 3 of these for 24 channels altogether. About €1450.

Alesis HD 24
This would record the 24 tracks to hard drive. €1190

Obviously you would need all the necessary cables and connections aswell, which you can price yourself.

You'd probably spend in the region of €6000 once you've added all cables etc to the rig.

You can then take the whole system away with you once the gig is over, and mix it using one of the desks you already have.

So if i want to record live event, i have to buy another mixing console right? or i just direct output from FOH mixer? so the output would be the same as PA speaker. how bout that?

Quote Tezar Mauludin:

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So if i want to record live event, i have to buy another mixing console right? or i just direct output from FOH mixer? so the output would be the same as PA speaker. how bout that?

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Keep in mind I do NOT do recording of live events on a large scale;)

That being said, I would lean towards James's comment as well. Direct Outs out of your current console, especially when using things like your ML, will work passably well easily. Will it be as good as splitting everything etc.? Not in the least, but I have done it in the past to record shows and mixdown to a CD release of a live show for clients. They were quite happy with the results.

I would start with the HD recorder, and improve from there as your budget allows myself. If you have the larger budget to afford nicer systems, AND the clientele to support it, or will get said clients because of the system, then go ahead, I am not voting against it. I am just reading this as you want to get started in it and might not be certain of having the clients to support a multi tens or hundreds of thousands of dollar recording system. Correct me if I am wrong.

By the way, Direct Outputs out of each channel will NOT give you the mix you have going through the PA in most cases. The A+H boards I believe have an internal jumper to select whether the Direct Out is pre-fade/mute or post-fade/mute, and by default it is set to pre-fade/mute. This means that assuming you have set up a decent gain structure you will get a clean feed directly out of your preamps. You will need to check the signal flow diagram to see if the insert is going to affect this or not, I believe on the GL series it does not, I can't remember off hand on the ML but I would wager it wouldn't either.

Seablade

Nuendo, Motu 24i/o - get as much as u need.
if u get signal from stage or foh, go into ur desk and out via direct outputs if u have. that way u can mix and record simultaneously.
get loads of convertors and y jacks. u can never have enuff.
and always know the spec/signal flow of the desk u are getting signal from. it helps alot

my favorite and simplest setup to record 16 channels is to use the Mackie onyx 1604. it has firewire so u can interface with ur software quite easily and neatly, and u also can use 2 at once to get 32 tracks, but i am not sure about using more than that.
i used a pc with that setup and it worked well, however i'm sure a g4 laptop will perfectly.

ur setup will take literarily a few mintues, and u can do it all ur self.
and u can transport all ur stuff in the trunk of ur car!!

if u need more than 32track....get 4 motu 24 i/o, and if u need more than 96 tracks?? ask 4 more $$$$ and get more gear.

i personally don't like hard disk recorders, recording via computer offers more options.

GET SOME EXCELLENT U.P.Ss!!!! trust mi...they r a lifesavers in live recording!!

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i personally don't like hard disk recorders, recording via computer offers more options.

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is it hard using hard disk recorders? i think it much simpler.
i saw Motu 24i/o. so every input channel goes to the FOH mixer, i use Y cord to jump to recording mixer (hopefully Mackie onyx) ? That is the easiest way?

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Rack splitter
You'd need 2 of these to split 24 mic channels. Approx €3000 altogether.

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im make my own mic splitter. Standard n my own modification for FOH and monitor. If the signal split into 3 sub (FOH, Monitor, Recording), is it possible that the signal will reduce it power? or became un original?

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Focusrite Octopre LE
You'd need 3 of these for 24 channels altogether. About €1450.

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is it same with behringer ADA-8000? or which one has better pre amp?

so i do need mixing console for this system??

Quote jamaicanDave:

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i personally don't like hard disk recorders, recording via computer offers more options.

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How many options do you want? Record & stop pretty much covers it doesn't it? I use an HD24 and would far rather use that than a computer - no viruses, no crashes, no windoze coughs, no need to disable pointless, resource hogging, software - it just works.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Quote Tezar Mauludin:

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Quote:

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Rack splitter
You'd need 2 of these to split 24 mic channels. Approx €3000 altogether.

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im make my own mic splitter. Standard n my own modification for FOH and monitor. If the signal split into 3 sub (FOH, Monitor, Recording), is it possible that the signal will reduce it power? or became un original?

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Splitting 3 ways passively will work most of the time but not always. A transformer splitter is better.

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Focusrite Octopre LE
You'd need 3 of these for 24 channels altogether. About €1450.

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is it same with behringer ADA-8000? or which one has better pre amp?

so i do need mixing console for this system??

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The Focusrite will probably have better preamps but the Behringer will get you started. You only need a mixing console when you want to play the recording back - and I guess you could use one of your existing consoles for that.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Ok

let me summarize.
my shopping lists are:
1. Behringer ADA8000 or Focusrite Octopre LE
2. Alesis HD24
3. Maybe add my mixing console:
a. Yamaha O1V96
or
b. Mackie Onyx 12 channel
4. And my to do list is to add up a new splitter channel

Am i missing something?
or any suggestion?

they're not manufactured anymore, but i use Mackie SDR24/96 hard disk recorders. they sync together easily and it's all BWF files on standard FAT-32 PATA drives; easy to transfer, backup and archive. the currently manufactured item most equivalent to these is the Alesis HD24. i really can't stress how much easier it is to record multitrack on location with HD recorders as opposed to using computers with DAW software and interfaces. i don't have to worry about other software in the DAW corrupting or interrupting the stream, and i don't get crashes. the most problems i have are in keeping idiots away from the gear/controls at some corporate or theatre events.

i've adapted my A&H consoles to prefade direct outs, (ML4k and upward allow more options on this i believe) and most gigs can be multitracked this way. i carry two in a rack to give 48 tracks, along with a 400VA UPS and a loom. setup is easy -one extra case and one loom, plus a camera case for spare hard drives in caddies. don't forget to fill in blank track sheets and even a digital camera to record stage setups can help jog your memory six months later when you're mixing it down or someone starts asking Qs because they are. often i carry exra preamps for crowd mics and doubling-up mics (when i disagree in an engineers choice) -doesn't unnecessarily fill up the console channels.

next step up is separate console on passive splits, workable if you prepare in advance and know the pitfalls. don't expect to turn up and plug in unless you own the main rig or have worked thru with the rig hire co. and/or event engineers.

best setup is separate desk and active splits. you will be more tolerated as this is a more professional way to go, but many of the passive split conditions may apply. prepare in advance, find out who is paying for the gig, who is paying for the recording and their relationship. if it's the same person you might not have to worry about too many political/ego scenarios (providing you are uber prepared with all manner of cables and connectors, adapters, preamps...). usu at this stage it will be pretty obligatory to have backup recorders, etc.

the next phase is digital multicores where the preamp racks onstage are set from FOH and each split is achieved by taking a cat5 drop and converting to analogue or appropriate digital format (ADAT, MADI, TDIF, or direct to DAW). make several factors in the job easier (esp if you want to mix to stereo or provide broadcast feed from a remote location or truck), although the usu prep and political caveats apply. will be interesting to see what becomes provided as digi multis evolve -Roland have bought-out Cakewalk; Sonar is planned to support their RSS stream directly over ethernet -essentially you plug the cat5 conn into the DAW and record.

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planet nine
lincoln, uk.

the same drives that work the Hard disc recorders are essentially hard disc drives similar to what u have in computers.
with a computer u can always update ur programms.
the amount of studios that no longer have use for their tascam adat recorders are countless, they have them sitting around doing nothing.
so that alone is a good reason to forget the radar, because i'm pretty sure they'll be outdated in 5 years.
the expense of a radar for solely 24 tracks of recording seems a waste when it offers no other feature than record.
with the computers i use, i have never had problems with viruses or crashes, the radars are indeed hard drives....and are suseptible to both viruses and crashes as well.
as i said b4 as well ,3 radars as opposed to 3 24 i/o interfaces is a alot of expensive gear....and u'll still need extra cartridges for memory....which i might add are only compatible wt the radar
where as with a computer.....u can get extra external hard drives, and also back up to dvds.
options options options......u can also do a on the go mix right after the show - export it and hear a ruff mix of what u did, promoters/bands will be impressed as well.
i have not even mentioned editting, and the fact u can get a much more detailled visual representaion of the audio signal for each channel.

i could go on 4 ever.......how about the ease and quick ness of labelling tracks....and making notes of the show.
it is just easier

i know HD recorders use the same technology as computers, it's just that their hardware and OS are dedicated to the task. i have a stable system, it takes me only a few minutes to set up, it works, it rarely breaks, it earns me money (sometimes as a backup system to DAWs which have had a poor record, in my experience, and that includes PTHD rigs). there are no other applications dormant or otherwise to cause issues, i can hire them out and they work for my clients.

i'm not demeaning what you have Dave, if you have a working system, then good for you. it's just that when i need 48 tracks with another 48 running backup, and i'm on location with minimum setup time and maximum expectations, i have a system that works.

it's not the highest quality system i grant you, if i need that, i'd rent in RADARs. but i know how to WC and sync it all up with video rigs; it imports easily to DAW for mixdown; it delivers results in conditions i wouldn't want to take computers. i arm tracks by pressing "arm" on the tracks, i press "record". if i want to name the files then i can, but i prefer to do that in advance on the laptop or afterwards in the studio. i always fill in tracksheets (studio training) and make notes for each session. i back up the drives at the end of the day, if i'm recording a festival and i need the space i blank the caddies too. i carry spare caddies (and machines) where it matters, and when some idiot blows the power my racks are usu the only things sat blinking at me in the dark.

from my experience, people who record live multitrack tend to prefer recorders. they're more reliable, especially at the higher track counts.



edit: isn't this the live forum? i use computers in the studio, as do most of the studios i know, but i'm talking about location and live here Dave. FYI my drives are standard PATA hard drives in well-built, but non-specialised caddies; i can put 500GB drives in if i choose, tho 160-250GB is usu adequate, wouldn't want to do too many hours before the caddy was swapped and backed up.

live can be an unhospitable and demanding environment. i only take computers to email the client, to set up the crossovers, angle the line-arrays and backup the recorders...


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planet nine
lincoln, uk.

Edited by Nathan (31/01/08 08:23 PM)

Most people call me a computer nut. That being said, I am completely with Nathan here...

The HDs used in the Alesis Machine ARE computer HDs. IDE interface, only difference is that they are in a caddy which most computers don't use(Though some do). They can be put in an external enclosure and with the proper tools read.

The reason I side with the HD recorder is due to one reason only, simpleness. I don't have to set up a session on the HD recorder like I do in any computer software. I don't have to configure my I/O. I don't have to worry about cables between interfaces not working correctly. I have many less points of failure. Once I record it I transfer it to computer to mix it quite easily, either using their fireport, or in my case I take the drive and attach it to my computer and use third party tools to read and transfer it. In either case it is quite easy to do.

While I can certainly set up a computer to do all that from turning it on, it is a fair amount of work, even for me, to get the same experience(Turn it on and within a matter of seconds be ready to record 24+ tracks). I then have to worry about various things going wrong, screwy drivers, or whatnot. Not to mention the overall cost aspect, one Alesis HD unit is last I checked between $1000 and $1500. Doing similar with a computer($1000 at least) and interfaces(Well add on several hundred a piece) usually means for a dependable dedicated computer I am spending much more money as well.

I will use computers on occasion, they are what I have available. But when doing road recordings, especially when not much time is available to set up and configure and troubleshoot, I will certainly opt for a HD24 over it in most cases. Like Nathan I just run it out of Direct Outputs, Group Outputs, whatever the case may be for the situation.

Seablade

PS Again this does not reflect using RADAR or similar, which I have no experience with whatsoever.

well somehow i think i need another guy to use the program for the computer on the spot. And i already notice that it is quite hard to find this "guy" to mixing and professionally use the program.
And i just start up this area. maybe for my first step is to buy HD recorders. I think the system is more easier and less complicated.
I ask my dealer about RADAR in Indonesia, they are expensive for amateur like me. Maybe i will do the system in 3 years ahead. After i get more busy with the customer.

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they're not manufactured anymore

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which one?

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FAT-32 PATA

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are there any SATA for HD recorder? coz my friend tell me that PATA has low transfer rate compare to PATA

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suppose i want to buy another rack, what u prefer? digital or analog?

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who is paying for the recording and their relationship

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i think i manage that up. i already have some future contract to take care that things.

the Mackie SDR 2496 is not manufactured anymore, a great pity -it complements computer recording beautifully (Alesis HDR has better converters I understand, but the SDR seems to be better thought out ergonomically and hard-disk-wise, it just needed a MkII).

i think RADAR will take SATA caddies, but PATA seems to have enough bandwidth for 24 tracks of 96kHz-24Bit BWF recording.

if you are providing the rig and the recording kit then you control how they are interfaced. if you are trying to connect to and record from somebody elses rig, then you have posible logistical and diplomatic issues to overcome...

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planet nine
lincoln, uk.

The mackies I don't believe are produced any longer.

Yes it is partially true that SATA has a higher transfer rate in general than PATA, however you don't have to worry about that in this case as they transfer fast enough for the recording the hardware is capable of.

IDE/PATA HDs are still rather easy to get a hold of and will likely be for a while.

Ok I am really curious, and this is not to offend at all, but you stated yourself as an amateur. I know some of those consoles, and for instance the ML series by A+H is not cheap, I am wondering how the heck you ended up with that(And I was already curious about the Behringer mixed in with them, talk about extreme quality range)

Seablade

So i stick to Alesis SDR24..

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it just needed a MkII

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what is that?

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f you are providing the rig and the recording kit then you control how they are interfaced

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yes im providing the rig. From the backline equipment and the rack console, to the generator.

well its a long story i guess. I started this business about 4 years ago when i enter my first degree. And then i develop this business from behringer MX3282 to A&H ML, from black spider speakers to KV2 audio, from RCH guitar amp to marshall, gallien krueger, from behringer to klark teknik, drawmer, ashley, tc electronic, yamaha, etc.
But is still consider my self as an amateur rather than with you guys in broad country. I have many to catch up. And now im in malaysia studying MBA. Currently im preparing for my company website.
Sorry for this short brief.

Quote jamaicanDave:

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the same drives that work the Hard disc recorders are essentially hard disc drives similar to what u have in computers.
with a computer u can always update ur programms.
the amount of studios that no longer have use for their tascam adat recorders are countless, they have them sitting around doing nothing.
so that alone is a good reason to forget the radar, because i'm pretty sure they'll be outdated in 5 years.
the expense of a radar for solely 24 tracks of recording seems a waste when it offers no other feature than record.
with the computers i use, i have never had problems with viruses or crashes, the radars are indeed hard drives....and are suseptible to both viruses and crashes as well.
as i said b4 as well ,3 radars as opposed to 3 24 i/o interfaces is a alot of expensive gear....and u'll still need extra cartridges for memory....which i might add are only compatible wt the radar
where as with a computer.....u can get extra external hard drives, and also back up to dvds.
options options options......u can also do a on the go mix right after the show - export it and hear a ruff mix of what u did, promoters/bands will be impressed as well.
i have not even mentioned editting, and the fact u can get a much more detailled visual representaion of the audio signal for each channel.

i could go on 4 ever.......how about the ease and quick ness of labelling tracks....and making notes of the show.
it is just easier

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With a computer based system you can get a lot of i/o for little money with software being far more comprehensive than anything a protools/cubase/logic can offer. Having said that this is not what you need when you are doing live recording, you want something that you can press record and capture the night in as good a quality as possible. You are not going to be doing any edits or tricky stuff on a night so count that out. You need a stable machine that says what it does on the tin, hence the need for hard disk standalone units. the radar system will not be out of date in 3 years? they have been doing their system for years and even a 5 year old on no still give quality and reliability after years of use. What you get with a standalone is one company dealing with the support of the product and less things to go wrong that is why there is still a market for these kind of things. Also many musicians don't what to be engineers they want to play music so opt for a simple play record route. I know high profile people that wouldn't touch a computer even though a HD reorder is just running a windows embedded or something. so i wouldn't write them off, a lot of high profile gigs are still using MX2424's to this day for record an play back and wouldn't part with them for a audio interface and copy of logic/cubase or bringing round a pro tools system. So final word is don't write these off yet because there are many people that swear by them and will do for years to come.

cheers

Gary

Quote Tezar Mauludin:

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So i stick to Alesis SDR24..

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it just needed a MkII

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what is that?

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Alesis make the HD
Mackie used to make the SDR2496

MkII i an abbreviation for "Mark 2", as in they should have made an updated model instead of discontinuing it

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planet nine
lincoln, uk.

Quote Tezar Mauludin:

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hi. Currently i have medium sound rental company. Located in indonesia. Now i want to spread my business into recording live event.

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First things first: What size of venues are you working in? How many performers are typical? Will you offer live recording separately or only as an extra to live sound? Exactly how do you see your recordings being used?

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What size of venues are you working in?

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around 300-500 people. Usually outdoor, indoor occasionally.

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How many performers are typical?

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depend on the EO. Around 5-8 band performance.

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Will you offer live recording separately or only as an extra to live sound?

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I will offer their live performance to each band. And if the result and the business prospect, is good i will increase my gig to be more pro.

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Exactly how do you see your recordings being used?

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Currently now i don't have any recording equipment. Just M-audio firewire hanging on my office. For in the future, may be i be able to broadcasting area and live performance on TV. Thats my vision.

sounds like buying an Alesis multitracker might be your best option. decide if 24 tracks is enough (i use two 24-track recorders with a 40-channel console for theatre and festival gigs -recording for video) and buy one or two units.

Alesis HD

if they pay their way or the job is important, buy a spare or rent in live spares. make sure you have plenty of hard disk caddies to swap out and as spares. always use a UPS. work out in advance how you're going to mix these down.

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planet nine
lincoln, uk.

so nathan, my shopping list are still same rite?

1. alesis SDR24 or HDR24
2. Focusrite octopre LE or behringer ADA8000
3. add a new mixing console for recording mix

correct if im wrong

Maybe it is just me, but I am missing why you think you need a new mix console for this? I also am of the opinion the Pres on the ML will likely be more than adaquete for this purpose as well and you really shouldn't need the focusrite or behringer to start with.

Seablade

don't forget the UPS.

u all jus gunned down the ole pc idea.
- but it works lol

Hi Dave

I didn’t gun it down. It does work your right but it is just a night mare if you are doing this every week/night having to hook everything up as well as the audio. Then there is problems you may have, even a slight problem can turn into a major head ache.

Picture this: you are in your studio, you have a band coming in 1 hour, and your audio interface decides to throw a wobbly (like they do at times Mac & pc). You will probably get it working on time but you may not and it’s a big panic. Now add on top of that having to set up all the splitters etc... And the night has to start when it starts. Would you want to risk it? (this might only happen 1 maybe 2 times a year, but would you want it?)

i take ur point.....i can't argue about the stability of the radar.
but how would you record a long show with crazy inputs, 56 inputs @ 90mins.
it is a genuine question. because if all i need is 3 radar units, that would be grand.even tho they are still quite expensive
i reaad they only do a maximum of 45 mins at the highest quality for 24 tracks.

Quote jamaicanDave:

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i take ur point.....i can't argue about the stability of the radar.
but how would you record a long show with crazy inputs, 56 inputs @ 90mins.
it is a genuine question. because if all i need is 3 radar units, that would be grand.even tho they are still quite expensive
i reaad they only do a maximum of 45 mins at the highest quality for 24 tracks.

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Can't speak for RADAR, but for the Alesis units mentioned by Nathan and myself, they can be sync'd together easily and since they record onto standard IDE HDs, it is quite easy to do long recordings. I just not to long ago did 24 tracks at 24/48 and 2-3 hours per show. Did multiple shows on one 200 gig HD, so it wouldn't be difficult at all to do shows at higher sampling rates if you desire, just need to get the ones capable of it, mine wasn't, and sync them.

Seablade