The government's UK copyright law site outlines the IPO and Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, the principal legislation covering intellectual property rights in the United Kingdom and the work to which it applies.

Main Forums >> Music Business
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new
      #576035 - 04/02/08 01:07 PM
Hi all,

Firstly HELLO Y'ALL !

I've not been around the forum for about 5 months, other life issues have prevented me doing any music prodiction at all, and I had to wipe the dust off my DAW, Audio Interface and Monitors yesterday ! Hope everyone is doing good.

I have decided to record an album of chilled, laid back, organic covers of a mixture of songs from a certain decade.

Although I am primarily doing this for my own enjoyment, I was wondering what options existed if I wanted to do anything with them.

Primarily these are my questions, and not surprisingly, they are all from a copyright angle;

1. Although it's really just for fun and my own enjoyment, if I thought the album was really good, can I send it off to record companies, or is even that not permitted?

2. What about if I wanted to produce a small batch of a CD of these recordings (say under 50) to be given away to friends and family, for no cost. Is that permitted or not?

3. If I did want to investigate getting permission for recording the covers, is there a single point of contact for doing this, or would it require me to investigate who owns the copyright for all of the original songs and contact them seperately?

Many thanks for any pointers !

--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
Loc: UK France & USA depending on t...
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576082 - 04/02/08 02:17 PM
owners of the copyright on the songs will expect a mention on the product and will of course expect to be paid on sales.
That`s where you start from.

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576095 - 04/02/08 02:36 PM

Thanks, I'd guess that to be the case, but I was looking for just a little more detail in terms of what I'm looking to do....

ie... Is permission needed from the copyright owner BEFORE the material is potentially sent out to A&R / record companies.... or could this be done later.

Also is there anywhere where recordings of this type (covers of original songs, albeit in radically different styles and arrangements), can be uploaded for general listening (non-commercial use) ??

Thanks if anyone knows a little more.



--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tomafd



Joined: 03/10/05
Posts: 3468
Loc: uk
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576112 - 04/02/08 03:24 PM
1.No record company will really be that interested unless you've already got clearance, 'cos it'll cost them to get it, and these days they probably won't sell enough to be worth it, unless you do something superb and they can see a definite income stream from it. You're not using samples from the recordings (mechanical copyright) so you're ok there, but you will need clearance from the publishers who own the material (the tunes, even if you're not using lyrics)

2. You might get away with this as long as you tell the recipients that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are they to copy or upload the material to the internet. This is crucial- as soon as you've burned a copy and given it to someone else (even for free), you're breaking copyright, and you should remember this. Just one copy ending up in the wrong place and getting used on some kind of other media (that earns money, especially big money) will mean you'll end up in doo-doo if the copyright owners find out. Friends and relations often don't realize the importance of this and will think they're doing you and others a favour by copying and passing on the music. Be very, very, careful-I do NOT advise you to do this.

3. You'll have to get clearance from all the separate publishers who own all the separate tunes. And they will charge you for it...

I'm pretty sure this is the case, but check the sites below

The MCPS (google it)

www.bemuso.com

It's a bugger, innit ?

--------------------
http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10825
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576181 - 04/02/08 05:29 PM
I don't think that you need to apply for permission before recording - but you will need to notify MCPS before selling any copies. There is a simple form to fill in. Any reputable duplicator/replicator will expect MCPS clearance before they will supply you with copies.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
narcoman
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8519
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: James Perrett]
      #576219 - 04/02/08 07:11 PM
Quote James Perrett:

I don't think that you need to apply for permission before recording - but you will need to notify MCPS before selling any copies. There is a simple form to fill in. Any reputable duplicator/replicator will expect MCPS clearance before they will supply you with copies.

Cheers

James.




For a straight cover version, i think you'd be right - BUT, considering they'll be stylized cover versions I reckon that comes under deviation from original arrangement and so will have to be approved - difficult to say without hearing!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Perfectspace
member


Joined: 16/07/03
Posts: 86
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: narcoman]
      #576675 - 05/02/08 02:16 PM
As above, you'll need MCPS clearance to duplicate.

On the subject of permission to create cover versions, I do agree that a serious deviation does warrant contacting the Publisher. However, I've been creating and licensing cover versions for 18 yrs in every conceivable style (including some pretty scary stuff - ouch!) and only ever had one publisher even raise an eyebrow - and that was on a notorious piece of music anyway - Also Sprach Zarathustra - they just HATE anyone messing with that.

The very vast majority of publishers welcome the income it generates.

--------------------
www.reallyfreemusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
narcoman
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8519
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Perfectspace]
      #576728 - 05/02/08 03:39 PM
Quote Perfectspace:

As above, you'll need MCPS clearance to duplicate.

On the subject of permission to create cover versions, I do agree that a serious deviation does warrant contacting the Publisher. However, I've been creating and licensing cover versions for 18 yrs in every conceivable style (including some pretty scary stuff - ouch!) and only ever had one publisher even raise an eyebrow - and that was on a notorious piece of music anyway - Also Sprach Zarathustra - they just HATE anyone messing with that.

The very vast majority of publishers welcome the income it generates.




had the jimi hendrix estate crash down on us. And Frank Sinatra estate EVEN though he wasnt the writer! The cover version "sounded too similar".....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576766 - 05/02/08 04:52 PM
Folks, thanks very much for the replies, some really good information and starting points there.

I haven't started the recording yet so it's hard to envisage exactly how they'll turn out. Essentially they are stripped down organic versions of old songs from various styles and arrangements.

If you imagine Nora Jones recording say, a Depeche Mode track, or even a Rick Astley track (!), you'd be in the right direction.

It should be a lot of fun - even if only I can (legally) ever listen to them!

I will check out the MCPS info - thanks again!

--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576776 - 05/02/08 05:09 PM
Update.......

Wow - checked out the MCPS-PRS. The 'Limited Manufacture' license is what is required for my project. The on-line license application system generates a quote based on how many copies you'd want to make, how much you'd charge, total playing time etc.

For what I am looking to do, the price was a remarkably reasonable £40 , which was a really pleasant surprise.

I did mark that my 50 copies of the CD would be given away without charge so I don't know if that's what keeps the price down.

Great result and thanks again for the fab pointer and info on this.



--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Marshy15
member


Joined: 03/03/03
Posts: 232
Loc: Chepstow & Hereford
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #576904 - 05/02/08 10:51 PM
Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?! Can i say "i wouldn't bother" without breaking forum rules?

--------------------
A computer, some cool mic's and amps.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Perfectspace
member


Joined: 16/07/03
Posts: 86
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Marshy15]
      #577038 - 06/02/08 10:24 AM
Quote Marshy15:

Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?!




....because you don't necessarily own what you'd be 'giving away'. If they were my tracks being covered I would expect you to license the right to duplicate them via MCPS.

I don't work for free, even if you do want to 'give away' the work I create....

--------------------
www.reallyfreemusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
T_L



Joined: 21/09/04
Posts: 386
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #577040 - 06/02/08 10:33 AM
Quote David Rogers:

Update.......

Wow - checked out the MCPS-PRS. The 'Limited Manufacture' license is what is required for my project. The on-line license application system generates a quote based on how many copies you'd want to make, how much you'd charge, total playing time etc.

For what I am looking to do, the price was a remarkably reasonable £40 , which was a really pleasant surprise.

I did mark that my 50 copies of the CD would be given away without charge so I don't know if that's what keeps the price down.

Great result and thanks again for the fab pointer and info on this.






Good find, David, thanks for posting that.

Tomas


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Marshy15]
      #577055 - 06/02/08 10:58 AM
Quote Marshy15:

Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?! Can i say "i wouldn't bother" without breaking forum rules?




I know where you're coming from, but for me there is some satisfaction in knowing that the CD and it's content is completely legal and above board.

Besides it add's a touch of professionalism being able to state on the cover that the recordings have been licenced by the MCPS-PRS.

For £40, I think it's worth doing it right.



--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Marshy15
member


Joined: 03/03/03
Posts: 232
Loc: Chepstow & Hereford
Re: Recording cover versions 'just for fun' ? new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #577343 - 06/02/08 08:44 PM
I know what you mean about creating a professional product.

Good luck to you, i hope the project turns out well.

--------------------
A computer, some cool mic's and amps.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
0 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 2682

October 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for October 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media