Hi all,

Firstly HELLO Y'ALL !

I've not been around the forum for about 5 months, other life issues have prevented me doing any music prodiction at all, and I had to wipe the dust off my DAW, Audio Interface and Monitors yesterday ! Hope everyone is doing good.

I have decided to record an album of chilled, laid back, organic covers of a mixture of songs from a certain decade.

Although I am primarily doing this for my own enjoyment, I was wondering what options existed if I wanted to do anything with them.

Primarily these are my questions, and not surprisingly, they are all from a copyright angle;

1. Although it's really just for fun and my own enjoyment, if I thought the album was really good, can I send it off to record companies, or is even that not permitted?

2. What about if I wanted to produce a small batch of a CD of these recordings (say under 50) to be given away to friends and family, for no cost. Is that permitted or not?

3. If I did want to investigate getting permission for recording the covers, is there a single point of contact for doing this, or would it require me to investigate who owns the copyright for all of the original songs and contact them seperately?

Many thanks for any pointers !

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What it says on the tin...

owners of the copyright on the songs will expect a mention on the product and will of course expect to be paid on sales.
That`s where you start from.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

Thanks, I'd guess that to be the case, but I was looking for just a little more detail in terms of what I'm looking to do....

ie... Is permission needed from the copyright owner BEFORE the material is potentially sent out to A&R / record companies.... or could this be done later.

Also is there anywhere where recordings of this type (covers of original songs, albeit in radically different styles and arrangements), can be uploaded for general listening (non-commercial use) ??

Thanks if anyone knows a little more.



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What it says on the tin...

1.No record company will really be that interested unless you've already got clearance, 'cos it'll cost them to get it, and these days they probably won't sell enough to be worth it, unless you do something superb and they can see a definite income stream from it. You're not using samples from the recordings (mechanical copyright) so you're ok there, but you will need clearance from the publishers who own the material (the tunes, even if you're not using lyrics)

2. You might get away with this as long as you tell the recipients that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are they to copy or upload the material to the internet. This is crucial- as soon as you've burned a copy and given it to someone else (even for free), you're breaking copyright, and you should remember this. Just one copy ending up in the wrong place and getting used on some kind of other media (that earns money, especially big money) will mean you'll end up in doo-doo if the copyright owners find out. Friends and relations often don't realize the importance of this and will think they're doing you and others a favour by copying and passing on the music. Be very, very, careful-I do NOT advise you to do this.

3. You'll have to get clearance from all the separate publishers who own all the separate tunes. And they will charge you for it...

I'm pretty sure this is the case, but check the sites below

The MCPS (google it)

www.bemuso.com

It's a bugger, innit ?

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

I don't think that you need to apply for permission before recording - but you will need to notify MCPS before selling any copies. There is a simple form to fill in. Any reputable duplicator/replicator will expect MCPS clearance before they will supply you with copies.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote James Perrett:

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I don't think that you need to apply for permission before recording - but you will need to notify MCPS before selling any copies. There is a simple form to fill in. Any reputable duplicator/replicator will expect MCPS clearance before they will supply you with copies.

Cheers

James.

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For a straight cover version, i think you'd be right - BUT, considering they'll be stylized cover versions I reckon that comes under deviation from original arrangement and so will have to be approved - difficult to say without hearing!

As above, you'll need MCPS clearance to duplicate.

On the subject of permission to create cover versions, I do agree that a serious deviation does warrant contacting the Publisher. However, I've been creating and licensing cover versions for 18 yrs in every conceivable style (including some pretty scary stuff - ouch!) and only ever had one publisher even raise an eyebrow - and that was on a notorious piece of music anyway - Also Sprach Zarathustra - they just HATE anyone messing with that.

The very vast majority of publishers welcome the income it generates.

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www.reallyfreemusic.co.uk

Quote Perfectspace:

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As above, you'll need MCPS clearance to duplicate.

On the subject of permission to create cover versions, I do agree that a serious deviation does warrant contacting the Publisher. However, I've been creating and licensing cover versions for 18 yrs in every conceivable style (including some pretty scary stuff - ouch!) and only ever had one publisher even raise an eyebrow - and that was on a notorious piece of music anyway - Also Sprach Zarathustra - they just HATE anyone messing with that.

The very vast majority of publishers welcome the income it generates.

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had the jimi hendrix estate crash down on us. And Frank Sinatra estate EVEN though he wasnt the writer! The cover version "sounded too similar".....

Folks, thanks very much for the replies, some really good information and starting points there.

I haven't started the recording yet so it's hard to envisage exactly how they'll turn out. Essentially they are stripped down organic versions of old songs from various styles and arrangements.

If you imagine Nora Jones recording say, a Depeche Mode track, or even a Rick Astley track (!), you'd be in the right direction.

It should be a lot of fun - even if only I can (legally) ever listen to them!

I will check out the MCPS info - thanks again!

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What it says on the tin...

Update.......

Wow - checked out the MCPS-PRS. The 'Limited Manufacture' license is what is required for my project. The on-line license application system generates a quote based on how many copies you'd want to make, how much you'd charge, total playing time etc.

For what I am looking to do, the price was a remarkably reasonable £40 , which was a really pleasant surprise.

I did mark that my 50 copies of the CD would be given away without charge so I don't know if that's what keeps the price down.

Great result and thanks again for the fab pointer and info on this.



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What it says on the tin...

Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?! Can i say "i wouldn't bother" without breaking forum rules?

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A computer, some cool mic's and amps.

Quote Marshy15:

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Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?!

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....because you don't necessarily own what you'd be 'giving away'. If they were my tracks being covered I would expect you to license the right to duplicate them via MCPS.

I don't work for free, even if you do want to 'give away' the work I create....

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www.reallyfreemusic.co.uk

Quote David Rogers:

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Update.......

Wow - checked out the MCPS-PRS. The 'Limited Manufacture' license is what is required for my project. The on-line license application system generates a quote based on how many copies you'd want to make, how much you'd charge, total playing time etc.

For what I am looking to do, the price was a remarkably reasonable £40 , which was a really pleasant surprise.

I did mark that my 50 copies of the CD would be given away without charge so I don't know if that's what keeps the price down.

Great result and thanks again for the fab pointer and info on this.

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Good find, David, thanks for posting that.

Tomas

Quote Marshy15:

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Why should you have to pay to give CDs away for free to your friends and family?! Can i say "i wouldn't bother" without breaking forum rules?

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I know where you're coming from, but for me there is some satisfaction in knowing that the CD and it's content is completely legal and above board.

Besides it add's a touch of professionalism being able to state on the cover that the recordings have been licenced by the MCPS-PRS.

For £40, I think it's worth doing it right.



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What it says on the tin...

I know what you mean about creating a professional product.

Good luck to you, i hope the project turns out well.

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A computer, some cool mic's and amps.