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Martin WalkerModerator
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Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: lachris]
      #589882 - 11/03/08 03:05 PM
Quote lachris:

Repeating 20us with no peaks. Except when I move the mouse, it goes to 2-400us (rarely above 275us)




lachris - I can't perceive any increase, however franticly I move my mouse - are you using special mouse drivers of some sort, or the HP Compaq nc6220 trackpad?

Quote Ruaridh:

Finaly getting the chance to play with my Compaq nx6310 laptop. (Thanks to TFT)

I got: Typicaly 75(ish), Max: 168

NRV10 set to 64 samples at 44.1 KHz. Cubase showed Input latency 3.9ms, output 3.9ms.




Ruaridh - Welcome to the SOS Forums!

That's another good result for the Compaq nx6310 then - a buffer size of 64 samples is just 1.45mS at 44.1kHz, which I suspect many notebooks wouldn't manage. Well recommended tft


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Ruaridh



Joined: 31/01/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Central Scotland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #589907 - 11/03/08 04:10 PM
OK, Here's the results from my main PC - spec in sig:

It's a home-brew job based on a BioStar K8M800 MoBo.

At idle it showed:

With network enabled - but nothing conected.
Typical: 2-3
Max 12

Perversely, disabling the VIA Rhine II fast ethernet adaptor gave:
Typical 2-4
Max 12

Running a medium sized project (the "All for you" demo with no recording) in Cubase Studio 4 gave:
Typical 6-10
Max 28

Disabling/enabling the network adapter made no discernible difference. There's no wireless stuff on that machine.

--------------------
Ruaridh (Pronounced "Rory").
Cubase 5.5 Guitars & Beer.


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table for two
active member


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Posts: 5902
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Ruaridh]
      #589908 - 11/03/08 04:11 PM
Quote Ruaridh:

Finaly getting the chance to play with my Compaq nx6310 laptop. (Thanks to TFT)
Task manager showed Cubase at about 10-12% CPU ussage.
NRV10 set to 64 samples at 44.1 KHz. Cubase showed Input latency 3.9ms, output 3.9ms.





Quote Martin Walker:

That's another good result for the Compaq nx6310 then - a buffer size of 64 samples is just 1.45mS at 44.1kHz, which I suspect many notebooks wouldn't manage. Well recommended tft
Martin




Thank you Both

The HP Compaq Dual Core business notebooks : NC6320, NX6310, NX7400 all intel dual core; NX6325 amd dual core
are the ony dual core laptops i have recommended for audio, and did a review of in Martin's sticky on Recommended Laptop models
(even though i have mentioned other specific laptops to look at.
I would avoid HP Compaq's latest dual core laptops however as they have the Richoh FW chip).




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Jadoube
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Posts: 364
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #589948 - 11/03/08 06:06 PM
Dell XPS M1530 Laptop

Intel T7500 2.2GHz 4MB cache Core 2 Duo; 3GB Dual Channel DDR2 @667MHz; nVidia 8600GT; Vista Ultimate;
200GB SATA 7200RPM drive; Blu-Ray optical; 355 Bluetooth; Intel Wireless N;

This is not an audio machine for me, but for the sake of your baseline I ran this; I run this machine with everything on; Turning off the wireless did not have a big effect;

latency is about 1000 microseconds... very steady.

I don't think this laptop would be a great choice for audio. It looks a bit iffy.

--------------------
David


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Deft
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Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #589954 - 11/03/08 06:13 PM
I used this utility when trying to troubleshoot Korg Zero 8 Firewire issues with my Acer Travelmate 5720 laptop.

CPU is C2D T7300
Acer 'Columbia' mainboard with PM965/GM965/GL960 chipset
2GB DDR2 666Mhz
Xp Pro

Using a Mackie D4.Pro dj mixer / Firewire audio interface

General readings are in the 70-90us range but with maximums fairly frequently of 1000-1500us. This is with as much stuff disabled as possible.
Interestingly, I don't remember seeing these maximums when I was testing the Korg Zero 8. The install is fresh and maybe a bit different.

When running at 50-100 sample latency on the Mackie d4Pro I can audibly hear little clicks and pops corresponding to the spikes in the DPC tool. If I increase the sample to give a 3-5ms latency they seem to disappear (which makes sense if I am getting 1000-1500us interrupts?)

So far the actual Firewire driver seems o.k with the Mackie, which was a worry as the Korg Zero 8 had constant drop-outs and loss of audio (but actually no glitching at lowest latencies)

So I would conclude that the Travelmate 5720 seems o.k. providing you don't need sample sizes corresponding to <3-5ms (and assuming your interface has drivers which don't go nuts every 5 mins).

On Vista Home Premium the DPC spikes are higher and much more often with a similar install and hardware profile....

--------------------
http://www.skratchworx.com


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danf



Joined: 14/02/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590056 - 11/03/08 09:47 PM
Dell XPS M1330

I just got this, so here are the readingis with Vista Home Premium out of the box...

typical: 100-200
max: about 1000 but occasional spikes of higher

These results are without running any programs; however, now that i have internet explorer open, the typical readings are much higher, so that the latency is almost constant at around the 1000 mark.

Disabling devices doesn't seem to have any effect on the latency. When PC is idle, the latency varies from 50-200 with peaks of 1000 about every 15 seconds.

--------------------
Podcomplex Music Technology


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lachris



Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Asker, Norway
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590092 - 11/03/08 10:50 PM
My wifes laptop:
HP Compaq nc8430
Core Duo T2500 2 GHz
1GB RAM
80 GB - Serial ATA-150 - 5400rpm
DVD±RW
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 256 MB
Windows XP Pro SP2

dpclat results:
~50us, peaking at max 180us.

Wireless disabled.

--------------------
/Lachris
(Mutlicom Kunshan D900 (=Clevo D901C), Motu 828 MkII, Sonar 7 PE)


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lachris



Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Asker, Norway
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: table for two]
      #590095 - 11/03/08 10:55 PM
Quote table for two:

The HP Compaq Dual Core business notebooks : NC6320, NX6310, NX7400 all intel dual core; NX6325 amd dual core
are the ony dual core laptops i have recommended for audio, and did a review of in Martin's sticky on Recommended Laptop models
(even though i have mentioned other specific laptops to look at.
I would avoid HP Compaq's latest dual core laptops however as they have the Richoh FW chip).




Does the 8510 and 8710 models have the Ricoh FW chips?

--------------------
/Lachris
(Mutlicom Kunshan D900 (=Clevo D901C), Motu 828 MkII, Sonar 7 PE)


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table for two
active member


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Posts: 5902
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: lachris]
      #590115 - 11/03/08 11:33 PM
Quote lachris:


Does the 8510 and 8710 models have the Ricoh FW chips?




Yes LaChris, they have the Ricoh FW chip.


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lachris



Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Asker, Norway
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590175 - 12/03/08 08:24 AM
Quote Martin Walker:

Quote lachris:

Repeating 20us with no peaks. Except when I move the mouse, it goes to 2-400us (rarely above 275us)




lachris - I can't perceive any increase, however franticly I move my mouse - are you using special mouse drivers of some sort, or the HP Compaq nc6220 trackpad?




Actually, I am using a Logitech wireless mouse (MX700), but I have not installed the Logitech drivers. I just plugged it in (USB). This is probably it. I will try later with the touchpad.

--------------------
/Lachris
(Mutlicom Kunshan D900 (=Clevo D901C), Motu 828 MkII, Sonar 7 PE)


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lachris



Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Asker, Norway
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: table for two]
      #590176 - 12/03/08 08:30 AM
Quote table for two:

Quote lachris:


Does the 8510 and 8710 models have the Ricoh FW chips?




Yes LaChris, they have the Ricoh FW chip.




Hmmm... There goes another option. I want a 17" WUXGA, Santa Rosa chipset laptop with TI FW chip which gives low DPC latency and works well with Sonar. Currently I have NO options left in my book. The Santa Rosa chipset makes higher performance CPUs available, and I would really like that to be more future proof... But anyway, I'd better tak this to the Survey of Recommended PC Laptop Models thread I guess. Thanks for the info, TFT!

--------------------
/Lachris
(Mutlicom Kunshan D900 (=Clevo D901C), Motu 828 MkII, Sonar 7 PE)


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danf



Joined: 14/02/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590211 - 12/03/08 10:05 AM
Another laptop reading:

Targa Traveller (bought from Lidl over 3 years ago)
AMD 64 3000+, 1 GB RAM, VIA FW

typical: 3-10

with occasional spikes that go off the chart...

but i've never had any problems with latency or dropouts on this one.

--------------------
Podcomplex Music Technology


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Binman_UK



Joined: 21/02/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Liverpool
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: lachris]
      #590226 - 12/03/08 10:33 AM
Quote lachris:

Quote table for two:

Quote lachris:


Does the 8510 and 8710 models have the Ricoh FW chips?




Yes LaChris, they have the Ricoh FW chip.




Hmmm... There goes another option. I want a 17" WUXGA, Santa Rosa chipset laptop with TI FW chip which gives low DPC latency and works well with Sonar. Currently I have NO options left in my book. The Santa Rosa chipset makes higher performance CPUs available, and I would really like that to be more future proof... But anyway, I'd better tak this to the Survey of Recommended PC Laptop Models thread I guess. Thanks for the info, TFT!




I've got the Ricoh chipset in my Dell and it works absolutely fine (with my Saffire Pro 26 i/o). Readings are between 200 and 700 microseconds, but I've never had problems with dropouts or anything. Am hoping to improve on those with some major tweaking sometime soon.

Binny


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Binman_UK]
      #590244 - 12/03/08 11:19 AM
Quote Binman_UK:

Quote lachris:

Quote table for two:

Quote lachris:


Does the 8510 and 8710 models have the Ricoh FW chips?




Yes LaChris, they have the Ricoh FW chip.




Hmmm... There goes another option. I want a 17" WUXGA, Santa Rosa chipset laptop with TI FW chip which gives low DPC latency and works well with Sonar. Currently I have NO options left in my book. The Santa Rosa chipset makes higher performance CPUs available, and I would really like that to be more future proof... But anyway, I'd better tak this to the Survey of Recommended PC Laptop Models thread I guess. Thanks for the info, TFT!




I've got the Ricoh chipset in my Dell and it works absolutely fine (with my Saffire Pro 26 i/o). Readings are between 200 and 700 microseconds, but I've never had problems with dropouts or anything. Am hoping to improve on those with some major tweaking sometime soon.

Binny




I managed to get my Dell with a Ricoh chipset now to latency between 28 and 200 microseconds. It reads around four readings at around 30 and one or two at around 200 microseconds. Disabling the broadcom network adapter reduced latency, but even with it on I don't get any dropouts.

I am now using it with a audiofire 2, a MPD16 and an edirol PCR M1, an external 2'5 320 GB WD Scorpio drive, an express card eSATA adapter, a unpowered HUB with the dongles and an trackball logitech mouse and I can get a reasonable performance with Cubase Studio 4.1 using a 96 samples buffer size. If I am using a single app in standalone mode I can easily use 32 samples buffer size, which gives a reported latency of 0.7 milliseconds in the audiofire software. And no latency spikes

There does seem to be an issue with the fan control. These readings are only possible with the fan being set in I8kfanGUI to manual mode and to a constant speed, other wise when the fan kicks in there are large spikes.

Honestly, I doubt any of the problems people have with dells are due to the firewire chipset. They are probably due to everything else but it....


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #590258 - 12/03/08 11:54 AM
Quote Nuno_:

There does seem to be an issue with the fan control. These readings are only possible with the fan being set in I8kfanGUI to manual mode and to a constant speed, other wise when the fan kicks in there are large spikes.




And just in case any of you are wondering what the i8kfanGUI is all about, it lets owners of a wide range of Dell Inspiron, Latitude, Precision, and Smartstep notebook models take manual control of their cooling fans to prevent real-time changes that cause audio dropouts. Read all about it here:

www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html

Any changes in cooling fan rotation speed or CPU clock speed can prove an audio nightmare with some computer models (mostly notebooks).


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Binman_UK



Joined: 21/02/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Liverpool
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590266 - 12/03/08 12:19 PM
Martin/Nuno: Thankyou both for the i8kfanGUI suggestions. I will be giving that a try within seconds of walking through my front door tonight .

Binny.


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imc



Joined: 24/01/08
Posts: 14
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590327 - 12/03/08 02:31 PM
i would really like to see how a macbook pro with windows xp does here. preferably one of the latest generation with texas instruments firewire and penryn (just in case they updated other devices and / or drivers). would be interesting to see whether they designed their drivers for windows solidly.


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Binman_UK



Joined: 21/02/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Liverpool
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Binman_UK]
      #590511 - 12/03/08 08:35 PM
Quote Binman_UK:

Martin/Nuno: Thankyou both for the i8kfanGUI suggestions. I will be giving that a try within seconds of walking through my front door tonight .

Binny.




Just reporting back to say that using i8kfanGUI made no difference at all unfortunately. It's still hovering between 200-500 microseconds, with the occasional 700.

Binny.


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Seeker_UK



Joined: 26/03/07
Posts: 4
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590547 - 12/03/08 10:41 PM
Homebrew PC:

Athlon 2600+
A7N8X Deluxe Motherboard
Onboard NVidia Soundcard
1Gb RAM
Windows 2000 SP4

DPA Latency

- Typical ~1600 microseconds
- Max 1691 microseconds


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wil72810



Joined: 31/07/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Belgium
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590631 - 13/03/08 08:10 AM
IBM T40 Laptop (1,5 GHz) - Windows XP - 1,5 GB RAM
Latency between 61 and 87 mu. Network adapter disabled, Wi-Fi enabled and connected. I let it run for a day and only found one big no-no and that is "stand-by mode"... When the computer wakes up from stand-by the latency goes through the roof (9,600 mu) and there is no way to get it back down but to restart the computer. I have disabled all power management in a separate profile I use for DAW/recording and that does the trick.
I would like to paste a screenshot, but it will not let me


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590697 - 13/03/08 10:58 AM
Welcome to the SOS Forums Seeker_UK and wil72810!

wil - that's an interesting observation, and ties in with various reports I've seen of audio interfaces not working well after returning from standby mode. If you ever manage to track down the hardware device/driver that causes this PDC latency increase in your laptop, so let us know (some presume it's the audio interface drivers, but I've yet to see any proof for this).


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Jon Jon Jon



Joined: 05/08/03
Posts: 498
Loc: London
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590734 - 13/03/08 12:07 PM
ASUS P5W-DH
Q6600 (3.1GHZ)
2GB RAM
2 SATA HD
1 PATA HD
1 PATA OPTICAL
USB AXIOM 25
1 USB HD
Wifi ON
ethernet (marvell yukon) ON but disconected

WINDOWS XP SP2
Fireface 800 1024buffer

Latency ramps from 5us up to 405us every 15secs

Disbable Ethernet Port
Latency oscillates between 8 and 52us

Disable Wireless
Latency oscillates between 3 and 14us

Disable Axiom, USB HD, Fireface
Latency oscillates between 3 and 14us

Enabled Marvell Ukon Ethernet and plug it into Macbook
Latency oscillates between 3us and 14us

Suggest Leaving Ethernet plugged into a switch or device to reduce latency. Possible cause due to scanning for connection.

--------------------
Kasha - Picture a beautiful life


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Jon Jon Jon]
      #590757 - 13/03/08 01:06 PM
Another very interesting result Phat - thanks for that. Polling for an unconnected Ethernet device seems to clobber your audio very effectively


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Tímo



Joined: 25/09/02
Posts: 1828
Loc: Derby, England
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: lachris]
      #590782 - 13/03/08 01:42 PM
Quote lachris:

Hmmm... There goes another option. I want a 17" WUXGA, Santa Rosa chipset laptop with TI FW chip which gives low DPC latency and works well with Sonar. Currently I have NO options left in my book. The Santa Rosa chipset makes higher performance CPUs available, and I would really like that to be more future proof...




Sorry for brief OT, hiya Chris, I was in the same boat (wanting to buy a 17" w/SantaRosa and TI fw). Had to give up after much research as there were no financially viable options, and am now building my own desktop which stands to be cheaper yet hugely more powerful. Might grab a cheap laptop for normal non-audio use when funds allow. But it appears for this round, 17" Windows dual-core laptops with TI are as common as rocking horse poo, unless you're in the USA where ADKProAudio carry several 17" monsters.

Back on topic, the DPC results in the thread are very eye-opening. Must say I've learnt a lot of things to bear in mind from the results and advice.


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danf



Joined: 14/02/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590787 - 13/03/08 01:49 PM
Back to the Dell XPS M1330 again...

Seeing as the latency with vista was so poor (disabling every possible device had no effect, neither did the fan control utility) I installed XP instead and the improvement was significant.

typical: 60-70us
max: 220us

I haven't actually tried this laptop with pro tools yet, but hopefully it will play nice. The reduction in latency simply by switching from vista to xp is encouraging from a hardware point of view...

--------------------
Podcomplex Music Technology


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vriesjw
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Joined: 30/11/03
Posts: 11
Loc: haarlem, the netherlands
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #590886 - 13/03/08 05:14 PM
Results of my old non-music Pentium III laptop.
Brand - Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO M-series
Processor - Mobile Intel Pentium III, 796 MHz, FSB 100 MHz
Chipset - Fujitsu Lifebook series
Memory - Kingston 256 MB SDRAM
BIOS - Phoenix BIOS 4.0, release 6.0
OS - Windows 2000, 5.00.2195 SP4
Hard disk - TOSHIBA MK1016GAP (9,34 GB)
Floppy disk drive
DVD-ROM - QSI SDR 081
audio - Intel AC'97 audio controller-sigmatel codec
PC-card - TI PCI-1420 Cardbus controller
Network - Belkin wireless 54 Mbps (Cardbus)
Network - Realtek RTL8139(A)-based PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter
USB - Intel 82440MX USB Univ. Host controller

Results:
Radio on:
typical about 1550, occasional peaks up to 3400 microseconds
Radio off:
typical about 1550, max. peaking up to 1860 microseconds

--------------------
Pentium M 1.7 G, 1G RAM, WINXP SP3 dual boot, 60+250+2x500GB HDD, 7200 rpm; Yamaha 01X; Studio Manager/mLan Tools 2.0; Cubase 4.5; Yamaha CP300


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ASG
member


Joined: 20/01/03
Posts: 302
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Jon Jon Jon]
      #590936 - 13/03/08 07:15 PM
Quote Phat Riffioso:

ethernet (marvell yukon) ON but disconected

Suggest Leaving Ethernet plugged into a switch or device to reduce latency. Possible cause due to scanning for connection.




When I reported similar results at the start of the thread my Marvell Yukon ports weren't connected either. I had guessed that it was some sort of scanning was well. I'm glad to see connecting to something solves it (I didn't test that). That's good news for me when the Euphonix Artist series arrive in PC.

Regards, Andrew


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Rudi
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Joined: 25/09/02
Posts: 14
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: ASG]
      #591161 - 14/03/08 10:30 AM
Ouch!!! My results are nothing like most of you..

DPC latency: ~ 750ms
with occasioanl peaks > 1,000ms

I have tried disabling every hardware device, inc. internal soundcard, Modem, LAN, WiFi etc., only leaving the essentials like keyboard, mouse, display and disk drive, and none of IT MAKES ANY difference... Likewise with services and background processes.

All my drivers are the latest and up to date, with the exception of the Nvidia card which are proprietary to the laptop and don't have any new drivers.

The only slight lowering of latency I have managed was by setting my Nvidia card to a lower Bit Depth (my screen is 1680x1050 32bits).

I've tried to use the various M'soft tracing tools such RATTV3, tracelog.exe etc., but they are not Vista ready and when they work the log files cannot be read back. I've also used the built-in performance tool in Vista, and it only confirms the DPClat.exe findings. Likewise with the excellent Process Monitor utility. I've also used the "DPC Latency Tool" which lets you select DPC values, but most of the devices on my system are set to 0 and cannot be changed.

None of these tools provide a way to profile what the DPC processes are and how much time they take to complete.

My increasing suspicion is that it is a combination of Vista less than optimised core processes. Turning off niceties like Aero, UAC etc., make no difference. I am hoping that the forthcoming Service Pack will maybe yield an increase in efficiency.

The other main culprit is likely to be the graphic card driver, but as mentioned no updates will be forthcoming, which is not helped by the fact that Evesham went under receivership...

Rudi

PC: Voyager C720DC Laptop
BIOS: Phoenix 1.00.05fe
CPU: Core Duo T7200 @ 2.0GHz
RAM: 2GB
DISK: 100GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive
GPU: Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX
WiFi: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
FireWire: TI OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 host controller
USB: Intel 82801G universal host controller
Audio: Alesis IO 14 FireWire 288bytes buffer 44KHz 24bits
OS: Vista Home Premium


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Brian Moynihan
member


Joined: 14/11/02
Posts: 677
Loc: Boston
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #591172 - 14/03/08 10:47 AM
Quote Nuno_:

My Results:



Average latency of 10 microseconds, spikes to around 20 microseconds. This system performs very well.

E6600
Intel DQ965GF MicroATX motherboard
80 GB Maxtor System drive
250 Maxtor audio drive
500 WD Caviar Samples drive
500 Gb Seagate backups
Two Sweex Via PCI Firewire cards
One ST Lab External SATA PCI express card
RME FIREFACE 800
Liquid MIx
BCF 2000
M-audio MIdisport 8X8
NI Kore

My Dell laptop performs not so well. I'll post that next.




Nuno, your results are remarkable. Am I right in thinking you are using the onboard video on that motherboard rather than a PCI card like nvidia or ati?

I ran the latency test on my machines here, and I noticed that maximizing windows, altering screen resolution or entering the nvidia control panel creates HUGE spikes in the latency graph.

Has anyone here got a macbook running bootcamp and could test XP? I'm curious as to how things behave when there is no Nvidia or Ati in the system at all.....could be onto something!


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #591191 - 14/03/08 11:28 AM
Quote The Bob Campbell:

Quote Nuno_:

My Results:



Average latency of 10 microseconds, spikes to around 20 microseconds. This system performs very well.

E6600
Intel DQ965GF MicroATX motherboard
80 GB Maxtor System drive
250 Maxtor audio drive
500 WD Caviar Samples drive
500 Gb Seagate backups
Two Sweex Via PCI Firewire cards
One ST Lab External SATA PCI express card
RME FIREFACE 800
Liquid MIx
BCF 2000
M-audio MIdisport 8X8
NI Kore

My Dell laptop performs not so well. I'll post that next.




Nuno, your results are remarkable. Am I right in thinking you are using the onboard video on that motherboard rather than a PCI card like nvidia or ati?

I ran the latency test on my machines here, and I noticed that maximizing windows, altering screen resolution or entering the nvidia control panel creates HUGE spikes in the latency graph.

Has anyone here got a macbook running bootcamp and could test XP? I'm curious as to how things behave when there is no Nvidia or Ati in the system at all.....could be onto something!




Hi Bob

Actually, I do have a graphics card in there! I forget which one it is but it's a cheap PCIe 256 MB one. I'll check it when I get home and post here. It completely slipped my mind.


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Ruaridh



Joined: 31/01/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Central Scotland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #591251 - 14/03/08 01:10 PM
A "double whammie" sort of thing:

I've been playing with my Compac nx6310/M-audio NRV10 combo again. (I know, I should be fixing the guttering after the storms ... soon.)

The plan was to progressively load the machine with more and more VSTs until ASIO fell over and to see the difference twixt M-audio drivers and ASIO4ALL (on the onboard audio).

The firewire started to fall over at 384 samples: crackles but DPC stayed flat.

ASIO4ALL went wrong at 512 samples, however, DPC shot from 70 to 1000. Crackles, pops, distortion and stutters ... nasty.

--------------------
Ruaridh (Pronounced "Rory").
Cubase 5.5 Guitars & Beer.


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #591492 - 14/03/08 10:53 PM
Quote The Bob Campbell:

Quote Nuno_:

My Results:



Average latency of 10 microseconds, spikes to around 20 microseconds. This system performs very well.

E6600
Intel DQ965GF MicroATX motherboard
80 GB Maxtor System drive
250 Maxtor audio drive
500 WD Caviar Samples drive
500 Gb Seagate backups
Two Sweex Via PCI Firewire cards
One ST Lab External SATA PCI express card
RME FIREFACE 800
Liquid MIx
BCF 2000
M-audio MIdisport 8X8
NI Kore

My Dell laptop performs not so well. I'll post that next.




Nuno, your results are remarkable. Am I right in thinking you are using the onboard video on that motherboard rather than a PCI card like nvidia or ati?

I ran the latency test on my machines here, and I noticed that maximizing windows, altering screen resolution or entering the nvidia control panel creates HUGE spikes in the latency graph.

Has anyone here got a macbook running bootcamp and could test XP? I'm curious as to how things behave when there is no Nvidia or Ati in the system at all.....could be onto something!




It's a NVIDIA Gforce 7300SE/7200GS.

Today I measured the latency while playing a Cubase project with a few CPU hungry synths like massive at 48,64 and 96 samples buffer size and the latency was more like 20-40 with spikes in the 200's.


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Jadoube
member


Joined: 13/05/03
Posts: 364
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #591524 - 15/03/08 02:08 AM
Alright then... I tested my 'music only' system and learned something interesting.

The System is:
  • Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 running 2GB of low latency RAM at 1066MHz front side bus on an Intel DP35DP mother board.
  • nVidia GeForce 8600 GT with passive cooling driving dual Viewsonic 22" LCDs.
  • On board Intel Gigabit NIC.
  • 3 UAD PCI cards and I use the on board TI Firewire to run a MOTU Traveller.
  • I use Windows XPP and Reaper 2. I have Cubase SX3, but I haven't fired it up since Reaper 2 came out.

No anti-virus, no internet crap... a very minimalist machine to do a specific job. It works very well.

So... when I first ran the Latency tool I was seeing an average of around 500 micro seconds with peaks to 750ish. Pretty high... Hmmm... thats way too high for what's on this machine. What gives? I opened the Device Manager and disable good ol' Sigmatel HD audio...and WTF!!! latency jumped off the scale! Turned that back on in a hurry.... but it got me thinking. So I rebooted and disabled on board audio in BIOS.

Now I see an average of 15-20 microseconds. Peaks at 105. YEAH BABY YEAH!

Conclusion: Sigmatel HD audio = BAD.

--------------------
David

Edited by Jadoube (15/03/08 02:10 AM)


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Jadoube]
      #591579 - 15/03/08 10:48 AM
Very interesting finding David, and another issue to mentally add to my arsenal of problem-solvers - thanks for that!


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Blink



Joined: 21/10/04
Posts: 428
Loc: London, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Jadoube]
      #592205 - 17/03/08 03:02 PM
Quote Jadoube:

What gives? I opened the Device Manager and disable good ol' Sigmatel HD audio...and WTF!!! latency jumped off the scale!




I had an interesting experience like this.

I was running Sonar 6 and Reason 3 through a UA-101 at about 200uS.

I closed Reason and went to close Sonar but it kept sayin a rewire device was running. Used Task Manager and found Reason process still running, so closed that in there and the latency went Red, off the top of the scale, all the time.

Even with Sonar & Reason closed it carried on in the red. I relaunched them and it went back to normal, so I am not clear if this is an error with the app, or if when Reason crashed it caused some issue.

I wonder if I had then launched a different music app if it would have "reset" the latency or if this hang-over would have affected the performance

--------------------
Is thinking about starting a new project


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john junior



Joined: 17/03/08
Posts: 2
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #592398 - 17/03/08 09:10 PM
My Setup:

OS: Windows XP SP2
Asus P4P800-E Deluxe
Pentium Northwood 2,8 Ghz
Corsair PC3500 2x512MB
4 Seagate 250GB HDD
Ralink Wifi PCI adapter
Network - Realtek RTL8139(A)-based PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter
RME FIREFACE 800


My results:

1/ WITH ALL internal LAN/WLAN adapters turned OFF, doing basically nothing on my computer, I get a max latency of 26 micro-secondes and 10 micro-seconds on average.

2/ With any of the internal LAN or PCI WLAN adapter turned ON, I get latency up to 14000 micro-seconds when browsing on internet. So we can easily conclude that the internet adapters are the cause of all my audio latency pbs !!

I really do not know what to do, is there any hope I can browse and listen to winamp simultaneously with fearing glitches and pops ?

Edited by john junior (17/03/08 09:52 PM)


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Beastman



Joined: 18/02/08
Posts: 2
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #592417 - 17/03/08 09:46 PM
My setup

HP Pavilion dv8000
Intel CPU 1.83 GHZ
NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400
2 GB RAM
Windows XP
Running Cubase 4.1.2
Using a m-audio mobilepre

I have a constant 4300 no matter what I disable.
My interface latency goes no lower than 256, any lower and cracks and pops are increasingly annoying.
My system also has an issue with stuck notes; with a usb midi controller he problems were occasional, with a motif connected via firewire the problem is constant.


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Beastman



Joined: 18/02/08
Posts: 2
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #592492 - 18/03/08 05:03 AM
I'd just like to add that I tried disabling my graphics card(GeForce Go 7400), which fixed the issue. I now get 38-43 with rare 1500 spikes.


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Beastman]
      #592586 - 18/03/08 11:57 AM
That's an interesting one Beastman - were you running the latest graphic card drivers when you were having the high results with it?


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Bullo



Joined: 18/03/08
Posts: 1
Re: DPC Latency Survey - please contribute new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #592679 - 18/03/08 04:04 PM
Hi!! Im new to this forum. I've got obsessed about the HIGH DPC latencies. Here I have something interesting that I wrote in another forum (before I found this post):
From http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=213664 :

hi guys!!! Today I bring something that has been discussed in MANY FORUMS,
and no one seems to have an answer. I tried EVERYTHING and read as much as I
could before posting here!!!! This is the situation:


I bought a new HPdv9500t laptop, with vista home 32. using DPC Latency
Checker (http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml).
It swhows spikes all the time. As it recommends, i tried disabling and
enabling devices in device manager. I tried everything. Ever restarting after
each change, just in case the drivers is still there. I even tried to disable
all services that I could. Microsoft says that a good driver should not spend
more that 100 us in an interruption. I get red spikes of 3000 us and more
sometimes! I can't find any solution... I tried to run RATTV3 (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/DevTools/tools/RATT.mspx)
to see what driver is the culprit. DCP doesnt show that, just the dpc times.


But RATT doesnt work on vista....


The funny thing just begins......


I decided to intall Windows XP (I have both now.
thanks Hackez and Mujjman).
. The latency in DPC
checker is EXTEMELY LOW!!!!
the highes peak is around 50us, even
with all hardware on!!!!


So...what can we think about this??? A looot of musicinas and 'real time'
users complain, because their harware doesnt respond in vista. This is patetic!!!
I know...I know...you will say..."Disable your Wlan, balbla". This is
true...the WLAN makes a lot of spikes, but even with it off, i get a lot of
them. The only time I got decent DPC in Vista was when I disabled EVERYTHING
at the device manager (usbs, mem card read, fingerprint, nvidia, sound,
FIREWIRE). but after enabling harware the problem comes back WITHOUT ANY
LOGIC!!!! imposible to identify Any problematic hardware
.


But this is the reality: I gave up and I think this
problem is in the heart of VISTA, the way it treats hardware! It is not like "i
have all disabled, and good DPC times, and as soon as i enable X device( the
problematic) the dpcs go up"
.


People.....we all need to find an anser for this....you can check it yourself.
looots of forums....no answers......Should I take VISTA from my laptop for
ever?? DO the people from microsoft do product with low performance on
purpose?





All your comments will be appreciatted. I aim to make this thread the
thefinite SOLUTION/ Experience/ Knowledege base for this problem...





Thanks a lot!!!!





Danny Bullo





PS: Maybe it has nothing to do with this but....Thew ACPI INSIST on sharing
IRQs on several devices! I know....we have sicussed this....it is the way it
works...butthat sharing could hav a limit. Maybe the hards starst just to not
tolerate that and this making high dpcs!!!!!


So...Can we confiorm that vista is NOT REAL TIME FRIENDLY?

Another question: As I said, the XP partition works very good showing low latencies. but Something STRANGE happened:
I tried disabling every possible device, and I get HIGHER values than when ALL HARDWARE IS ACTIVE in device manager!!!
Why is that? If it get 30us with all hard on, I should get 12 with the MIN HARD ACTIVE!!!

Thanxs for the advices and I hope my comments helped!

Danny Bullo


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