anyone moved from PC to MAC and Logic I guess and noticed a marked improvement in stability.. with my PC and Cubase 4 I can expect at least two crashes a month the last one was a big loss... for the budget I have to buy a mac my current PC is considerably faster.

I might test the water with a 2GHz duo mac mini 2GB, Leopard and logic 8, anyone using the same at all?

The first time ive openly entered a MAC / PC debate but the crashing issue is becoming more of a problem

I experience logic and ableton crahses on a mac pro every now and then. No machine is perfect is it? I still prefer to the pc though. Whether its worth the money is a different issue though

I've been through a number of different recording platforms over the last few years. I started off on a PC running cubase VST, then moved to SX3, then ditched computers for an Akai DPS24 for a couple of years, then migrated back to SX3 and ableton then discovered logic and HAD to get a mac!
I got my first mac when the latest iMacs where released last summer and got logic 7.2 through a focusrite saffire pro 26io, seriously one of the best moves i've made so far i think. It's really pretty stable and can cope with far more than i ever managed to do with cubase (and is a much more in depth program to my eyes!) I'd been using logic for a while on other peoples machines before i could afford my own mac so was already pretty competent so i guess that made the decission process a little easier for me. 6 months or so down the line i have now pretty much ditched windows altogether. Not to say i dislike windows that much, it obviously serves a purpose but i would now be more than satisfied to work purely on macs for the rest of my life! I've just bought myself one of the new macbook pros which is pretty much the same spec as my iMac (2.4GHz, 2Gb RAM) and although i've only had it a couple of days now, i'm already feeling the benefits!
I've not experienced a huge number of crashes with macs so far, obviously they still crash occasionally but i've found OSX recovers far better from crashes than windows ever did.
So yeah, i think it's safe to say i'm a mac convert! I'm trying to sell my Akai DPS24 now and will hopefully be getting a protools setup of some kind with that money... and to add, i prefer protools on OSX to XP any day as well! Just feels nicer for some reason!
Yeah, you might think macs are very expensive dongles for running logic but in my opinion theyre more than worth it!

Doug

Quote DougR:

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I'm trying to sell my Akai DPS24....

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Shame on you

If you haven't already, try mentioning your DPS sale HERE.

Plenty of DPS24 enthusiasts and 'wanna-buys' there who might be interested. The DPS24 is highly sought after and now tricky to source.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I moved from PC to Mac, running Logic, some years ago. I still use PCs for some other odds and sods jobs.

IMO the Mac is more stable. Not crash-proof, but better.

Also, don't assume that clock speeds are exactly comparable as between PC and Mac. Differences in the OS, and all the other background crap running, tend to mean (as a very broad generality) that where two machines have the same clock speed, the Mac will probably deliver the better performance.

A major bonus for me is being virtually immune to viruses etc and not having to spend money on third party protection software (which runs in background using up system resources etc etc etc...) and not having to do all those tedious Windows tweaks to get the best audio performance. Macs "just work".

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Crossed over to Mac and Logic just over a year ago,


Only problem I have had is that my wireless Frontier Design thingy sometimes gets lost/doesn't hook up.


The previous year I was running PC/Sonar Producer set up purchased and tweaked from a very well known audio supplier - never really worked well.

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Matt
www.krcollective.org

I switched form Cubase to Logic when it went to SX ( OS 9 to OS-X in effect ).
SX looks like another app, so I though as my main machine is a Mac, I should go the logic route.

There is a lot of stuff in Logic that until V8, was very confusing to a Cubase user.
For example :- this "environment" thingy, that hard core logic users rave on about, was totally unnecessary for my needs so I just ignored it, hoping it would go away. In version 8 it has (sort of).

The EXS24 is brilliant & since Structure came out, I can use the library in PT too !
It is by far, the best reason to use Logic.

The synths are average, nothing really exciting but if you have nothing else, very useable.
The effects are a mixed bag.
The delays and convolution reverbs are great.
The modulation FX are crap. By that I mean dull and boring. Buy a Studio Quad and hear what a decent chorus should sound like.
The distortion Fx are unusable. Buy a proper guitar FX plugin or a rack unit.
The pitch correction is very neat and can smooth out an iffy vocal.

Overall it is the same only different.
The main advantage is Mac/Logic is more stable than anything windows based.
It is much simpler to set up and as already mention, free from viruses and associated costs,
And finaly, the Mac being a better OS, requires little in the way of maintenance or tweeks.

Put simply, it works.

The "mimi" is a great start - not the best Mac, but we are splitting hairs now.
Buy it, you won't regret it and if you feel you need a fix of M/S, you an always set up a Windows partition and run that too.

For any Mac these days you would be paying the same for a PC with such good components plus the full version of the latest windows. Luckily for us we always get the full version of our OS, because its the only version.

Its always amazed me how emotive people get about the mac pc issue...and factual rationality seems to go out the window!

Anyway, I use a PC (cubase 3) at home and a Mac (Logic 7) at work. Of this famed Mac stability you hear so much about? doesn't exist. Well maybe it did at some point but it definitely doesn't anymore. Thats not to say Logic is unstable, but well there's a reason "apple+s" (thats mac speak for for "ctrl+s" ) has a slightly worn feel compared to the rest of the keyboard. Fact of the matter is you are running a high end processor intensive application with lots of third party programming running (ie plugins)...crashes will happen. Especially now with the intel chipsets Mac's are closer to pc's than ever.

There is more to this however. A stable PC does require maintenance though. For example, stay away from cracked software, trim bloatware, keep it away from the internet (or at least use firefox plus decent antivirus) and even so it might eventually get bogged down. Not to say this doesn't happen on a mac, the process is just far more controlled. (In fact the mac i'm using at the moment could really use a fresh install at some point)I suppose the point is if you are using a computer solely as a high performance DAW, there is fundamentally no difference between PC and Mac...but if plan on using it for recreation as well and don't want too much hassle well then Mac would start to look more attractive.

There is one more consideration. The price. This has always flummoxed me and is the sole reason i've never bought into Mac Propaganda(tM). Cost per performance for a mac (at least when i looked into it a fair while ago) was absolutely hideous! Yes, they are high performance machines and perform accordingly, But in some cases i wouldn't even pay more than half for the equivalent pc. Most of my recent experience in this matter comes from having to replace parts - and hence is still very relevant. Yes, mac's do need repairs sometimes! in fact we had a cooling system that burst on one of the machines. Supposedly this is extremely rare though. The technician had a hard time trying to understand how we managed to spill "green soda" into it. Eventually he realized this was cooling fluid. The cost of a new motherboard and CPU were so expensive we had to scrap the machine. Further we had to replace a power supply after a power surge. It was 5 times more expensive than the most expensive PC power supply i've seen!! Then there was also the instance of when I upgraded ram. I managed to source the equivalent Intel Pc server ram (what mac pros really are these days) for less than a third of the price!!

There is, as always, more to this however. When you buy a Mac it comes with the OS, still not enough to justify it...the big factor for me is the cost of the sequencer. Logic is just ridiculously cheap for what you get - which includes an exceptionally versatile set of plugins. The Logic EQ and comp is infinitely better than the cubase equivalents. This means that not only do you have extra outlay for Cubase but also a decent set of plugins.

So would i advise a Mac or Pc? well first determine exactly what it is you have to spend, and what it is you plan to use it for. Find out the cost involved and make up your own mind. There definitely nothing wrong with a Mac and it probably does have the slightest edge stability wise, but ignore anyone who is filled with zealous pride when they tell you how magnificently superior their mac is...

My two cents- I'm a musician, not a computer expert. I use (and have always used) Macs, because most of the time you can get away with some very simple maintenance routines, compared to PCs, and the things just work, most of the time.

My friends who are similar, and don't have fairly advanced computer knowledge, and run PCs, seem to spend a good deal of time scratching their heads and not making any music, because it's 'gone down, again'- for no apparent reason at all- and have to get a mate in who'll spend the next two days (or a week, even) getting it all going. Only to have it go down again a few days later. I've seen this process go on for months.

The answer seems to be- if you have advanced knowledge of PCs, you can save a hell of a lot of money and get something that'll work just as well as a Mac, but be prepared to spend quite a bit of time 'under the bonnet' now and then.

If, like me, you're basically a computer dunce- buy a Mac. It'll cost you, but at least you'll get some music made without too much hassle- and with any luck, will go on doing so, only spending maybe 5 minutes a month (as I do) doing pretty simple maintenance routines to keep it running smoothly.

I can't comment on the latest issue of Logic, or Intel machines for music. My music computer is an old G5 running 10.3.9. Logic 7 (the very first...) and a bunch of similarly old (ie, about 3-4 years mostly) plug-ins. It all works fine, and has done, barring the occasional crash (hello, Native Instruments...) and I usually know exactly why it has. I've now 'closed' it to any updates- I don't need the extra functions, nor the hassle. It's reliable and does what I need, for now. (A bit like my 14 yr old Volvo estate...)

No, they're not perfect. All I know is that my output (in terms of music made, and sold) seems to be a lot higher than equivalent computer dunces trying to do the same on PCs.

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote hollowsun:

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Shame on you

Plenty of DPS24 enthusiasts and 'wanna-buys' there who might be interested. The DPS24 is highly sought after and now tricky to source.

---

I know, I know! It was a reeeeeeally tough decision to try and sell it and i did mention it over there a while back, had one person show some interest but nothing ever came of it! Maybe i'll try again!
It's a great machine, designed by some great people!!
You guys did a great job with that era of akai kit!

Anyway, back on topic!
Despite coming from such a great machine (it's only an issue of space for me at the moment thats ruling out the DPS24) I'm still extremely happy with my move to mac running logic!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, really useful.. particularly regarding crashes and that they do happen on both systems, it is news to me as I have never really looked into getting a mac and just got on with making music the cost of a powerful PC obviously being cheaper...

Im sold on the idea that you can just get on and make music with considerably less maintenance...unfortunately my last crash with cubase cost me my track and back ups (it remains a mystery)

has anyone had experience with the Mini Mac at all particularly the latest intel duo cores? or any other recommendations on a tighter budget -- £700 max

Once again thanks

From a pc/windows user who is seriously considering mac....

I/m getting into the school education side of things and the last time i used logic was in the early 90's (when it was competing with the likes of notator and cakewalk) but having seen garage band (which for educational purposes seems a revelation) and the cost of logic I'm seriously tempted by moving to macs.

It's time to upgrade soon anyway, my current recording pc is 6 years old, with an excellent rme hsdp 9652 and cubase sx (which crashes sometimes - but thats to be expected no??)...i'm looking at portability and power so i can use the computer in school and at the bands recording studio....

Is there a big difference between the mac book and the macbook pro? - would i seriously see £400 worth of better performance from a macbook pro? (remembering my pc cost £600 all in when i built it)

Also - i'm kinda presuming the new Logic 8 has got rid of all that "environment" crap that made it so difficult to use 15 years ago - so i'm seriously thinking going that way. -

I do want to keep my old pc going - probably as a soft synth provider - would it be easy to use the rme card (with a suitable firewire one for a new mac) and run old cubase sx alongside new logic - or am i opening a can of worms?

I am seriously tempted - the price for macs, when factoring in the software additions has/is coming to a point where it seems financially viable at last (macs were just too darn expensive before)....

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

There is alot of threads comparing macbook with the pro
Have a search though a very very short summary seems to be that a lot of people are going for the macbook and maxing out the memory.

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Matt
www.krcollective.org

I have a windows xp laptop that i use for work it has an intel centrino duo processor 1.8mhz.
My friend has a g4 powerbook 800mhz each year i go on holidays and borrow his mac to write some tunes while on holidays. But this year i thought why bother i have a far superior windows machine that must be able to run reason far better than his old mac.
the usb keyboard is not class compliant so needs drivers on both machines.
No problem downloaded the latest of both.
Mac worked within 10 minutes PC took the rest of the night.
Now in my studio i have only ever used macs but really wanted to give windows a go my girlfriend wants a pc laptop i want a mac but i want to compromise as my main computer is a mac anyway.
So after not getting the PC working that night i tried again in the morning after several restarts reinstalls it finally works.
So i hand back the G4 and head off on holiday.
I started using the PC while on holiday but there was a horible delay from when i pressed the keyboard till i heard the sound. No problem go to reason and make sure its in live mode which it was on, now i was baffled.
so i go into the sound control panel and i have the choice of several drivers! i try them all but still i get this delay that i got to a barely useable stage.
Then i rememer all the articles in SOS that i never read about latency on PC's and now the penny is starting to drop.
This is why any PC owner says dont use your music PC for the internet or word processing this is why you need a seperate bootable partition.
so after having a disapointing musical experience on the PC i think i will get a mac book.
I mean it should not be so hard to do the above on any computer these days.
At home my mac does everything from internet to music even at the same time.
The PC laptop is a HP and has already had the screen replaced the G4 was bought as new and is still going.

Yeah, I've always done all the computer jobs on my Macs.

Logic does crash - grrr - but not often, and when it does, it saves the song with the word (crashed) in the filename.

By the way, I should come clean: I am biased, in favour of Mac over Windows. Why? Experience over the years. My experience, and watching others. Do I think the sun shines out of a Mac's ethernet port? No—it's a computer, and computers are annoying sometimes. I just fine Windows a lot more annoying! Last biased comment: Good gear (mostly) costs more, and Macs are a bit more expensive. Mind you, Logic is quite a bargain ... Hmm ... Has my 'Quality Costs Money' argument gone down the drain, there?

That above isn't an incitement to flame. It's just a quickie on why I'm Mac biased.

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PA stuff on FB

Quote jugealt:

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So i hand back the G4 and head off on holiday.
I started using the PC while on holiday but there was a horible delay from when i pressed the keyboard till i heard the sound. No problem go to reason and make sure its in live mode which it was on, now i was baffled.
so i go into the sound control panel and i have the choice of several drivers! i try them all but still i get this delay that i got to a barely useable stage.
Then i rememer all the articles in SOS that i never read about latency on PC's and now the penny is starting to drop.
This is why any PC owner says dont use your music PC for the internet or word processing this is why you need a seperate bootable partition.

---

Err, what audio device are you using? If you are using the built in audio on the HP laptop with HPs own drivers which isn't designed for music production then you would get horrible latency. Try using the free Asio4All drivers and you should be able to get very low latency, or get a dedicated external soundcard. Paying for a new computer to fix a problem that could be solved for nothing isn't advisable!

Also the thing about having loads of other crap installed on a PC affecting audio isn't such a big deal any more - although I have been running a dual boot system at home on my windows box for many years now, by neccessity I've had to have it all in one on my work machine, and performance is absolutely fine. I'm sure if you had a load of poorly coded crap running in the background on a mac it would affect performance negatively as much as any other OS!

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

Quote Mahoobley:

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I'm sure if you had a load of poorly coded crap running in the background on a mac it would affect performance negatively as much as any other OS!

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not really no,, Mac OS has always been rather better than windows about handling multiple tasks.





looks for cranking handle and starts to turn ....


but i'll admit that the post in question was rather "naive" for want of a better turn of phrase

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Pffft. Well, if my Windows box can have Nuendo, Adobe Audition, Basehead, Thunderbird, Firefox, Open Office, Directory Opus, Visual Studio and an unfinished, buggy game running in the background without falling over I don't want to know how better your mac is as running multiple tasks. So nerr

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

how about all that AND run a proper, OS ,

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Oh, zing.

You're wrong, but you're good.

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

A stable computer is a stable computer. An unstable one is an unstable one.

Notice how there was no mention in there of platforms, operating systems and so on?

It's perfectly possible to have a messed up system, no matter whether it's an Atari or an Amiga.

And, if you look after your system, install and protect it carefully and perform a bit of housekeeping from time to time, it's perfectly possible to have a stable, useful tool for your needs.

quote]
Err, what audio device are you using? If you are using the built in audio on the HP laptop with HPs own drivers which isn't designed for music production then you would get horrible latency. Try using the free Asio4All drivers and you should be able to get very low latency, or get a dedicated external soundcard. Paying for a new computer to fix a problem that could be solved for nothing isn't advisable!

Also the thing about having loads of other crap installed on a PC affecting audio isn't such a big deal any more - although I have been running a dual boot system at home on my windows box for many years now, by neccessity I've had to have it all in one on my work machine, and performance is absolutely fine. I'm sure if you had a load of poorly coded crap running in the background on a mac it would affect performance negatively as much as any other OS!

---

But you are missing my point on the Mac it just worked. You only have one driver Core Audio!You can use the mac for making music straight out of the box without finding new drivers how am i supposed to know HP drivers are no good?

Quote jugealt:

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But you are missing my point on the Mac it just worked. You only have one driver Core Audio!You can use the mac for making music straight out of the box without finding new drivers how am i supposed to know HP drivers are no good?

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I thought the point was to try to help you out? I didn't realise it was just a point scoring exercise. More fool me.

I'm not sure that the fact the built in soundcard on your HP laptop didn't ship with low-latency audio drivers is reason to state macs are inherently better than all other computers.

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

Quote Glasgene:

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anyone moved from PC to MAC and Logic I guess and noticed a marked improvement in stability.. with my PC and Cubase 4 I can expect at least two crashes a month the last one was a big loss... for the budget I have to buy a mac my current PC is considerably faster.

I might test the water with a 2GHz duo mac mini 2GB, Leopard and logic 8, anyone using the same at all?

The first time ive openly entered a MAC / PC debate but the crashing issue is becoming more of a problem

---

A Mac is a known quantity, a PC is not, and there lies the problem - you are not comparing like for like.

My PC never crashes, I don't suffer from 99% of the problems that I see listed here, but then it's not a cheap generic PC.

However, there's less to dabble with on a Mac, and for that reason it's more idiot-proof.

Thanks

Quote Glasgene:

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As Unbiased as possible please

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As an addendum, note the following observations:

1. Musicians as a rule are probably the most biased group of individuals.
2. Of the most biased conversations that biased musicians can have, "PC vs Mac" is probably at the top of the "Musician's Most Biased" list.

What about trying a mac with cubase 4 or cubase sx3 then? cubase is for both platforms not only for macs! Cubase is a great program in lots of terms, it lacks in plugins and synths compare to say logic but thats not really point of a good DAW. Personally i like all music programs and had bad experiences loads with mac computers, especially when had installed in the same computer pro tools logic and cubase! they were kept crashing all the time! Also new macbooks arent good and arent stable and arent powerful! try and run logic 8 in a macbook! a couple of audio channels, a couple of synths and a reverb and ou reach maximum CPU limit! and thats paying 700 pounds for one! No they aren't cheap and they arent good. Oh and pro tools LE are "bad" in both platforms, mac and pc, but amazing in HD, no probs whatever. But then again people think a computer magically crashes on its own, not because the user did something stupid. 110% of the time is user error! No computer has a decision making chip to act on its own free will!
I have people having mac's dying all over all the time: hard drives, psu's, cd roms, you name it it fails! We've got 21 new macbooks in college to give to students, i'll come back in a month's time and let you know how many have failed!
regards
t

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www.coorecords.com
www.last.fm/music/cloudcub

Quote Parker Fly:

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idiot-proof.

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This is the core of the Mac v PC thing. I'm a computer idiot, so I use Macs.

Those who aren't, can save a load of money and get a PC, spend a lot of time tweaking it, and then get it to run just as well as any Mac run by fools like me who haven't a clue, and like the damn things just to work, out of the box.

Which they generally do, most of the time, as long as you remember to 'check the oil' now and then. Pulling the damn engine out and re-boring the cylinders (or whatever) is not something I'm capable of.

If you are, buy a PC.

That really is about it, as far as I can see.

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

I like PC vs Mac debates. As mentioned above they do bring out some impassioned arguments!

I used a PC exclusively since they were first called that. I've gone through windows 3.1 to 95 to 98...then jumped a bit and went to XP. I had used a mac on occasion but never really tried them out fully. I considered myself to be an experienced user. If people told me about tweaks I knew how to alter settings and also how to recover from wrong settings etc. Building my own PC from scratch didn't bother me, and re-building was a walk in the park.

I used Cubase from VST3 and on through and I still use Cubase today when I'm working at a school because all the computers have to be able to connect to the Microsoft supported network and the IT dept (until recently) didn't want to know about trying to get a Mac to work on it. We have Cubase 4 at my school.

Anyway. It came to a point where I was looking to get a laptop and I was looking at all the options. This was about 2 years ago. I had a mate who raved on about a Mac about how it didn't crash, great to use, fast, un-complicated, etc etc... He's a good friend and I knew he wouldn't let me down, so having hardly any knowledge of how to use one I spent out on a top of the range (then) MacBook Pro 17" Core Duo 2.16GHz, 2GB ram, with Logic 7 and a MotU 896HD. When it all arrived I fired it up.

Within 30 mins I didn't ever want to use a PC again. I moved everything I could over to Logic (sometimes by exporting each track individually) and retired my PC from it's audio life. Since then I've used new PCs (running XP) but I'd still rather do it all on a Mac.

Now, problems, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention...

sorry

Okay, it does crash. I've had kernel panics and have had to hard restart, although that's only happened about 10 times in the past 2 years. Sometimes programs will hang. I've never had a problem while I've been using Logic, apart from when I've tried to use one synth too many! It is a computer after all and you can't expect it to work perfectly all the time.

I have had far fewer problems by quite a considerable margin than I've ever had with PCs, even PCs built and maintained by people who sort PC problems out for a living. I've as yet not had to re-build my mac from a complete wipe, which I would have to do every 6 months with my PC because it would start causing problems after that amount of time.

I've recently made the upgrade to Leopard and Logic 8. Both upgrades were worth it I feel, especially due to logic 8 having lots of extras from the Jam packs. I would recommend a Mac to anyone and everyone.

I think the mac mini you suggest should be okay to get you started, but bear in mind you'll perhaps want to invest in (if you haven't got one already) a decent audio interface.

Dunno what's going on with the macbooks mentioned above. At the school I work at we've recently got 4 new macbooks and I've done a 16 channel mix with 3 soft synths running and it didn't seem to have any problems. My MacBook Pro has been running for 2 years now and hasn't needed anything other than a new PSU cause the cable sheath came away. Apple replaced it under warranty.

Logic vs Cubase. I've used Cubase on a Mac it is no different to using it on a PC, so if you like Cubase there is no real reason not to get a copy for the Mac. However, I prefer logic because it doesn't seem as cluttered. The mixer in logic I find a lot easier to navigate, and it seems more like a mixing desk than the Cubase mixer.

Anyway. I've rambled enough! Hope this helps if anyone makes it all the way through! hehe

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Edited by Exavior Music (19/03/08 06:00 PM)

Can't give you any technical info as to why but I always crashed Macs more often than PC's. I've also managed to completely fry a Mac, something I am yet to do on a PC. Macs are more expensive however they tend to be better suited to the artsy stuff. If I had the loot I would try Mac again, but at the rate technology advances using the PC and getting a new one every couple years works better for me. Cheers!

Quote J Mayer:

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but at the rate technology advances using the PC and getting a new one every couple years works better for me. Cheers!

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Cough cough...... errr where do intels fastest CPU's end up on the street first?


Mac-tels

errr, which manufacturer pretty much drove firewire development singlehanded?


errr

Apple

first PCI-e Only main brand computer...

Apple



early adopter SAS as opposed to SATA

Apple

first totally smug bastard CEO the rest of the PC using world loves to hate??

Apple

first generally available 8 core machine functional and shipping , and actually worth it?


Apple



I'm biased I couldn't give a stuff who knows it... and it's NOT because I'm a computer illiterate idiot user... far from it.....

that said, there've been a lot of dead ends in Apples history as well.....

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Yeah exactly my point, I must have been 2 h!gh too convey it properly....

With Macs constantly getting better and better and yet being more expensive, being broke as a joke I would lag further and further behind the technology...With a PC I can at least stay closer to the advancements...

I know someone who has produced radio 2 broadcast shows on a powerbook g4...at least I think it's a G4. definitely not an intel.

Just cause it's an old mac, doesn't mean it can't do the job

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

I have had a "new" type iMac for about 7 months now. It has not crashed once. Sure Logic quit a couple of times, and the score editor is still annoying, but it does just work out of the box. My flatmate bought the same one, his boss bought the same one, my colleague at work bought the same one, as did someone across the street. Funnily enough no-one has had a restartable crash.
Then again, I'd much rather have a Warwick Streamer Stage 1 6 string with swamp ash body and matching headstock with just passive volume and pan... so everything is relative isn't it - a computer is after all just a box with PCB's and bits in it...

Quote juche:

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I have had a "new" type iMac for about 7 months now. It has not crashed once. Sure Logic quit a couple of times, and the score editor is still annoying, but it does just work out of the box.

---

My studio PC is 12 months old, it has never crashed once, and it has never dumped me out of any software at all.

Therefore, using Mac-owner logic, PC's are better than Mac's. Alternatively, it's just not example of "all being not equal", which would make the entire argument pointless and without merit.

Quote J Mayer:

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Can't give you any technical info as to why but I always crashed Macs more often than PC's. I've also managed to completely fry a Mac, something I am yet to do on a PC. Macs are more expensive however they tend to be better suited to the artsy stuff. If I had the loot I would try Mac again, but at the rate technology advances using the PC and getting a new one every couple years works better for me. Cheers!

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Couldn't you be a little less specific?

Macs are now cheaper than ever

Excuse me but I thought "music" has always been classified as one of the arts?

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Matt
www.krcollective.org

> first PCI-e Only main brand computer...

It's hardly an advantage having to ditch your your PCI cards rather than having the option of PCI and PCI express is it Max?????

...

My two cents anyway. Logic on my Mac is a horrible, unstable piece of poo, and the sooner it's fixed the better. It really does bring back the dark days of Steinbug and some of their horrible releases...

I used a Dell for live use which is rock solid. I'd happily use a Macbook in its place but as the situation currently stands it's just not stable enough.

> Macs are now cheaper than ever

They are but they're still a lot more expensive than a Windows box. Depends on configuration of course but there's nothing under £1749 (unless you cripple the processors) in MacLand with PCI express slots. My quad-core build cost me around £500. Bit of a difference there!!!

+1.

Now wait for the inevitable backlash (or 'Maclash'...)

Quote tomafd:

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Quote Parker Fly:

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idiot-proof.

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This is the core of the Mac v PC thing. I'm a computer idiot, so I use Macs.

Those who aren't, can save a load of money and get a PC, spend a lot of time tweaking it, and then get it to run just as well as any Mac run by fools like me who haven't a clue, and like the damn things just to work, out of the box.

Which they generally do, most of the time, as long as you remember to 'check the oil' now and then. Pulling the damn engine out and re-boring the cylinders (or whatever) is not something I'm capable of.

If you are, buy a PC.

That really is about it, as far as I can see.

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This is really what i was trying to say in a nutshell...