I am looking to purchase a multi-effects unit for use with an SM58 input, for a trumpet, possibly in conjunction with a kaos pad. For use in live situations in an electro/breakbeat context.

I expect there won't be anything specifically designed for brass so it will probably be a guitar unit with suitable inputs etc.

Please does anybody have any advice about general things to look out for, technical issues etc? Or can you recommend specific makes and models, or warn me off others?

Thanks for your help.

Welcome to the forums. Not entirely sure whether it's what you're after, but whilst at my local "decent music" pub [The Six Bells in Chiddingly - Great pub, awesome bands, great beer for those interested] I saw Ray Russell and his band and his horn players all had digitech whammy pedals. I've always loved them on guitars. But for horns, especially trumpet, WOW! Everyone should at least hear it! I highly advise you try it out. Though I assume it'll be a 'marmite' sort of sound - you're gonna love it or hate it.

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www.sda-audio.co.uk

Cheers for that Stef. Actually two people on other forums have mentioned Digitech. They make a vocal processor called the Vocal 300, which looks good but has had some negative user reviews (more novelty FX than quality sounds / lots of feedback issues)

I think it should be possible to use guitar FX units provided I have a good mic pre-amp (Which I do). So that opens up the floor for all sorts more options...

I want quality effects (No need for amp/cabinet modelling) with the option to build chains of multiple effects.

Natural-sounding reverb is a must as is a range of delay options. (Not too fussed about looping; I'm thinking of a dedicated loopstation as my next purchase after this.) I would also like a good pitch shift/auto harmony setting. Other flangey/phasey/chorus effects are great but secondary.

Any thoughts on a good quality, robust unit that would fulfill some/all of these requirements, and how much will it cost (new or secondhand)?

A very specific request, I know cheers for your help

Hi, I do a lot of work with DJs in clubs playing live sax. I use, and swear by, an alesis nanoverb. It's cheap, small, very robust and reliable and very easy to tweak whilst playing.

I'm not sure the context you'll be working in, so there may not be many similarities with my needs.

I've tried alternatives like mixing desks with built in effects and rackmounted effects units with multiple engines but they have all been too complicated to control whilst playing. I have never tried using multi effect with more than one nanoverb - that might not work too well.

I've never used a footpedal of any sort, but I've seen it work very well.

Hope that helps

John

Both my parents and younger brother are pretty prolific in the brass band world. I managed to get my brother to play through my TC Helicon Voiceworks with some hilarious outcomes. Octaves from a single trombone sound incredible! I then coupled this with my tc reverb/delay and set a delay loop up. Never heard anything so brilliant in my life!

TC do a footpedal version of the voiceworks - the voicelive, which may well do your job!

Thanks for those suggestions.

Someone on another forum mentioned the TC Helicon but they said it was OK for studio but poor for live - feedback problems. Maybe they didn't have the 'Live' version. Any thoughts?

To answer the other question I will mostly be using it in a live electro/breakbeat/hiphop band with most of the music coming off a laptop, probably quite simlar to playing with dj's in terms of monitoring etc.

Edited by chillwalk (17/04/08 09:36 AM)

A lot depends on what other support you have while you're playing and how much you can prepare in advance. I can only really speak for my situation, where I need to be able to vary the kind of sound & effects depending on what the DJ is playing. I rarely use anything other than mono delay. The parameters I can control on the Nanoverb are delay time, wet/dry mix and output volume. These give me quite a range of different sounds with only three easy to use rotary controls. No need to squint at screens mid-set. As I have no idea what the DJ will play in advance I can't make much use of presets, although I don't want a wide range of different effects anyway.

I usually play through the club system through the DJ mixer with no sound engineer. The DJ is rarely able to pay any attention to my sound/volume when I need, so being able to control overall volume output is vital for me if I'm going to play with any dynamics. That doesn't stop the DJ fiddling on occasions, and that's usually unhelpful! It also mean that I can set the levels at the DJ mixer to allow some headroom at my end.

If there is a sound engineer taking control of the overall sound, then I need to make sure they understand what I'll be trying to achieve and agree what they will look after on my behalf but I rarely get that luxury. Also the sound in clubs isn't very often very well set up for live musicians, so it can be a bit of a struggle sometimes. That also means that the benefits of sophisticated and better sounding effects units are lost.

Usually when I'm playing in a live band setting I don't need to worry about changing parameters etc. If you are doing a prepared set it might be a lot easier for you to use a more complicated effects unit when you can preset things in advance for different tunes. Whenever I try that on the fly it all goes horribly wrong.

It may be the nanoverb would be too limited for what you're trying to do, but at £40ish second hand, coupled with it's simplicity, it's just what I need.

I was gonna mention the mic pre issue but you're well on top of that so no need.

Octaver sounds pretty good on trumpet, and delay delay delay! (although I am well into my dub so I may be biased.... )

Johnny L: ta for that. At £40 second hand I could afford to get one of those and something else as well!

Sam York: Octaves rule! I saw a trombonist use an octaver in a funk/hiphop band and it was phat.

Would it be better to get a seperate delay/reverb unit (like JL's nanoverb), an octaver or pitchshifter pedal, and a chorussy flangey thing instead of one multi-effects unit? I do quite like the simplicity of an all-in-one-unit, especially if I could pre-programme bespoke chains of customised effects.

I think I'm nearing the stage where I want to go to a retailer and try out a few options for myself, any recommendations in the Leeds/Sheffield/York area?

so many options!

Well i got my TC voiceworks from the Leeds City Sound Control, but they had to order it in, i don't think many places carry them as stock, i was just lucky that i knew i wanted it.
There's also Leeds East Sound Control, don't know how the two co-exist, but there you go!
There are one or two smaller shops, but to be honest, once you get cheeky about the price at Sound Control, they tend to be able to beat most places.

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Chris
Radio Communications and Electronics Engineer within the Aviation Industry - plays in the theatre when he has the time!

Quote chillwalk:

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Johnny L: ta for that. At £40 second hand I could afford to get one of those and something else as well!

Sam York: Octaves rule! I saw a trombonist use an octaver in a funk/hiphop band and it was phat.

Would it be better to get a seperate delay/reverb unit (like JL's nanoverb), an octaver or pitchshifter pedal, and a chorussy flangey thing instead of one multi-effects unit? I do quite like the simplicity of an all-in-one-unit, especially if I could pre-programme bespoke chains of customised effects.

I think I'm nearing the stage where I want to go to a retailer and try out a few options for myself, any recommendations in the Leeds/Sheffield/York area?

so many options!

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I know a trombonist who does similar things (he may even be the one you're referring to!)

His signal chain is: SM58 (actually a fake one he bought off eBay) -> MXR pre amp pedal -> various (mainly Boss) guitar FX like delays & octaver & loop station etc

Works well, with the advantage as you point out of being able to stomp stuff on and off easier than if it's an all in one unit.

Quote Sam York:

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I know a trombonist who does similar things (he may even be the one you're referring to!)

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I see your location is Liverpool, he lives there... Paul Burton of the band 6ixToys? Originally from Hull? Small world innit! I was discussing this on another forum and got loads of advice from a guy who is doing a gig 10 minute's walk from my house. I'm hoping to be able to thank him in person.

Of all the websites in all the world...

OK, Update and Regroup:

I want to buy some new/secondhand stompboxes for use with a trumpet (with a mic pre-amp). I definitely want an octaver/pitch shifter. I'm open to suggestion re: what else will sound good. What brands are robust & reliable and what specific units will sound good?

Quote chillwalk:

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Quote Sam York:

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I know a trombonist who does similar things (he may even be the one you're referring to!)

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I see your location is Liverpool, he lives there... Paul Burton of the band 6ixToys? Originally from Hull? Small world innit! I

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Indeed! I'm actually posting from his house right now (he lives with my girlfriend and I have no internet)

When he gets out of the shower I'll go and have a look at his setup and post back with details...

Edited by Sam York (21/04/08 11:08 AM)

pushing the boundaries of a technical advice forum right over into personal messaging, say hi from me...

back on topic: what brands are good and reliable to buy secondhand?