After buying a handsonic, trying several software drum samplers. I am giving in and looking to get a real snare drum and hi-hat. They are the real give away. Kick and toms are ok on the handsonic so I can use that as part of the kit. Thing is I want something very compact and small, been looking at the ARbiter flat kit. Sounds good from the examples on their site. any issues with miking these tiny drums? Any other recommendations for a very small snare/hihat combo. problem with the arbiter flat is I have to buy the whole kit. what solutions have others on here found? Don't want to pay the earth either. By the way to my ears the nearest I got to a genuine drum sound was out of a Technics WSA rack synth - Acoustic modelling.

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www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm

Quote Shambolic Charm:

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After buying a handsonic, trying several software drum samplers. I am giving in and looking to get a real snare drum and hi-hat. They are the real give away. Kick and toms are ok on the handsonic so I can use that as part of the kit. Thing is I want something very compact and small, been looking at the ARbiter flat kit. Sounds good from the examples on their site. any issues with miking these tiny drums? Any other recommendations for a very small snare/hihat combo. problem with the arbiter flat is I have to buy the whole kit. what solutions have others on here found? Don't want to pay the earth either. By the way to my ears the nearest I got to a genuine drum sound was out of a Technics WSA rack synth - Acoustic modelling.

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I tried the flats and found them, nor unsurprisingly, rather short on body.

i've found that the snare samples on Reason 4 are pretty good

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Owen

Good hi hats don't come cheap. A friend of mine got some Sabian AAX for £110 - they were on special offer though.

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A computer, some cool mic's and amps.

although I masqueraded as a drummer for a year or so back in 1984 (they already had two guitarists) I have never had a great kit. Only played good kits when borrowing another drummers kit at live gigs so didn't have time to get into the sound. what difference will I get cheap hi's to expensive. Is it crisper click and less ringing? as far as snares go I have often preferred the sound of a cheap snare. I'm not looking for a full sound I kind of like that tinny flat ringo sound on early Beatles

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www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm

the snare and hats on the flat lites kit are awful! the toms and kick are useable but i replace the snare and cymbals (and hardware!)

My Hi-hats set me back around £200. Zildjian A-Custom. Snare was around £400 - part of a Pearl Masterworks kit. Never been happier with my kit sound

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Quote guy999:

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the snare and hats on the flat lites kit are awful! the toms and kick are useable but i replace the snare and cymbals (and hardware!)

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When you say 'awful' could you explain a little - too poppy? hihat too unresponsive? Splashy? It would help to have a little description of awful because one mans meat is another mans.....

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www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm

Awful as in unusuable for anything but kids practice!

The hihats are brass so generally just sound like a sheet of metal rather than a complex blend of tones you expect from decent bronze cymbals.

The snare is crippled by the fact that the single lug tuning system cant get the head tension high enough and there is no adjustable snare tensioner so it is a nightmare getting a decent snap out of it. Plus it is only 12" and 2" deep I think so it is never going to sound like a real snare, certainly not better than decent samples!

I say this as a commited flats lite user, the kick is actually OK, the toms are good, its the snare and cymbals that let it down. The hardware is very flimsy but actually does the job, i use other hardware just because I already had it.

You should be able to find a decent pair of hats for less than £100 on ebay and a standard pearl export or other budget snare can sound good with new heads and good tuning, you can get them used definately under £100!

Edited by guy999 (23/06/08 10:15 PM)

Feel & realism is the ace card from 'real' percussion, I find that a Ludwig Black Beauty or the rarer ( but still around at great money - circa £300 ) Ludwig Millenium Brass ( same as black beauty but without the 'black' and with tubed lugs and cast rims and modified strainer, limited to 100 units worldwide ) shoved in front of an SM57 does the trick. Pair this up with 15" Zildjian Newbeats for a perfect combo'.

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www.thespell.co.uk

Yes...you need to throw a few hundred quid at this or it's not worth doing. You also need an appropriate room to record the snare in. For a lot of styles, the ambience is half the sound.

This is quite a specialised area that any good engineer should be comfortable with, but don't expect an instant miracle. it's a learning curve to say the least.

J

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www.jackruston.com

agreed,

although Zildjian are undoubtedly a safe bet, there is a definite 'brand name' element to the sometimes amazing prices.

I recently started replacing a zildjian cymbal set with some TRX, and was very pleased. The 14" hats were £140.

I would not be inclined to take anyone's advice but my own ears' when it comes to buying a snare. It depends too much on your Style. Although the poster above is very happy, I'm sure, I've never tried a Pearl snare I liked. You will probably find that some you like will cost five or six hundred, while you may well find another is only a hundred and fifty.

Don't spend fifty quid, though. The chances of it sounding cheap in exactly the way you want it to are very small! For an off the shelf Ringo-ish sound I've seen a couple of mid-sixties maple Ludwig Pioneers go on ebay recently for around £200.

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Anto mo Ninja, Watashi mo Ninja

Drummer here! Buying drums is as subjective as buying anything else! Its all down to personal taste, not cost!

I would recommend that you go to a drum shop and try some hi hats and snares out, If you find some that you like the sound of (better to not look at really expensive/ltd edition ones) then go on ebay and see if you can buy them cheaply/secondhand.

You can get a relatively decent sound out of any snare with the right skins, but remember, different snare sounds are often required for diffrent genres of music. This also applies to hi hats - i.e. you might actually need/like the trashy sound of a really cheap hi hat for a particular song.

You should get some decent mics too! I'd highly recommend the Audix D1 for snare!

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https://soundcloud.com/mrk_music


Edited by mrMRKelly (24/06/08 10:31 AM)

The other thing to note is that unless you are a drummer (you dont say), you arent neccassarily going to be able to get a good sound anyway. There is a huge amount of variation in sound and dynamics from real drums (I guess which is what makes them sound real!) which takes years of practice to develop.

Quote mrMRKelly:

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I would recommend that you go to a drum shop and try some hi hats and snares out, If you find some that you like the sound of (better to not look at really expensive/ltd edition ones) then go on ebay and see if you can buy them cheaply

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At the risk of sounding like Kant, if we all do this all the time, then there go the local drum shops, and we will no longer have anywhere to try out snares. But maybe that's a debate best left for some other thread.

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Anto mo Ninja, Watashi mo Ninja

Not quite sure of your reasoning for even considering a flats kit. If you're after some good drum sounds, you'll need a really good kit, and a really good player behind it.

Can you play, and if so can you play very well? If not, you'll have issues getting a good solid rimshot, buzzy snare rolls and accented stuff on the snare. As far as the hihats, you'll be wanting to be able to play fast ticking stuff using the moeller technique or similar. Its not just as simple as hitting a drum!

On that note: I've recorded a lot of kits. Hundreds probably and I can tune drums better than most drummers. BUT I can't get a good sound out of a snare drum. I cant hit it right. It just sounds pants when I do it. It's a very important point.

J

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www.jackruston.com