Hmmm, did a gig last weekend, used my Yamaha MG24/4fx desk and ran out of channels lol

Ran absolutely everything through the PA, sounded amazing.

Now I need a bigger desk. Any suggestions ? Can't go crazy on the ££'s as i'm also going to get another HK Actor DX system.

Will probably just go for the Yamaha MG32/14fx (bigger version of the one I have, an therefore very familliar with it), but would be interested in your suggestions.

I can get the Yamaha MG32/14fx for £629, but am willing to go upto £1k if the alternative for that money is worth the extra.

I really quite like my Yammmy, cheap as chips, great for live work.

But floors open to you lot .....

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

Chain 2 * 01v's together; 48 channel, 16 ADAT.

I've been a live engineer for many years now and been doing recording also and I can tell you that unless you can afford a midas or something in that range I'd say that Yamaha is the way to go.

Like you said, they're cheap, reliable, easy to use and sound good. What else do you need?

Assuming you want to stay analog and not go digital.

If you do want digital I'd seriously stay away from the mackies, rolands and such.
I've worked with all of the above and more and I would go with yamaha. Crest also make nice mixers but the price is also higher. Maybe Allen & heath but I would still go with a Yammy over that.

Just my 2 cents...

Hope that helps.

Quote Parker Fly:

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Chain 2 * 01v's together; 48 channel, 16 ADAT.

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...and spend about 3 x the intended budget...

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Chain 2 * 01v's together; 48 channel, 16 ADAT.

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Good grief NO!

Stick with analog in that range of the market, you will be much better off for running a show off of. My personal reccomendation would be to see what you can get a second hand GL-2400/32 for and whether that might be in your budget.

Seablade

EDIT: Added quote since there were several replaies before mine.

Edited by seablade (06/08/08 06:29 PM)

Quote Tommyhell:

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Quote Parker Fly:

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Chain 2 * 01v's together; 48 channel, 16 ADAT.

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...and spend about 3 x the intended budget...

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He has upto £1k to spend, and 01v's regularly go for £300.

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I've been a live engineer for many years now and been doing recording also and I can tell you that unless you can afford a midas or something in that range I'd say that Yamaha is the way to go.

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Would severely disagree with this statement. Personally I will go with Allen and Heath over Yamaha for all but possibly the very high end of the yammie analog boards, which to be honest I haven't seen updates to them in a while and are in the Midas price range anyways last I checked.

I would also look at APB-Dynasonics as well though they are up there in price depending onw hich of their boards you are looking at. The team responsible for the Crest HP8 that most people are so familiar with is the team behind APB-Dynasonics and I have heard nothing but good things about those consoles.

Seablade

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Would severely disagree with this statement.

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Look at his web-site.

Having a desk that has compression/gate/duck on every channel, as well as 2 effects processors, SPDIF/TDIF/ADAT, and full automation is going to be of far more use to a small PA hire company than a traditional analogue desk.

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Would severely disagree with this statement.

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Look at his web-site.

Having a desk that has compression/gate/duck on every channel, as well as 2 effects processors, SPDIF/TDIF/ADAT, and full automation is going to be of far more use to a small PA hire company than a traditional analogue desk.

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Actually I will strongly disagree for several reasons. As an engineer that has run live shows off both live consoles in that price range as well as O1Vs and other digital consoles, I would take a live console and external compression/gating/etc. any day of the weak. Especially since as he is replacing an analog desk it is a good bet he arleady has external processing. Give me a Live console and a couple of ACP88s and I will be a happy engineer.

Secondly as a rental company, if you are renting out gear to other engineers, that may or may not be familiar with digital, having analog is always a safer bet IMO, especially in the low end of the market, as you are more likely to come across less skilled clients that can't pick up a digital to quick, and haven't run a digital before, when dealing with low budget productions.

In general I haven't seen any digital console I would, as a skilled engineer, even LIKE to use for live work until you get in the range of the LS9 consoles. If the StudioLive console from Presonus had flying faders I would be looking long and hard at it, but the lack of them turns me off to it as I have mixed on similar consoles in the past as well when digital was first picking up. Under the several thousand dollars required for a LS9, I will take an analog any day of the week, and usually in that price range I will be looking at Allen and Heath or similar.

And as bad as the O1V is for running live sound, the concept of chaining two together and using that blows my mind to be honest.

Seablade

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Secondly as a rental company, if you are renting out gear to other engineers, that may or may not be familiar with digital, having analog is always a safer bet IMO, especially in the low end of the market, as you are more likely to come across less skilled clients that can't pick up a digital to quick, and haven't run a digital before, when dealing with low budget productions.

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But they'll find a giant analogue desk, with 16 busses an absolute breeze. The comment is pointless and without merit as with an 01v all they need understand is louder means up, quieter means down.

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And as bad as the O1V is for running live sound, the concept of chaining two together and using that blows my mind to be honest.

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You're in minority, given the number of 01v's that were sold and are still in regular use. To suggest it's "bad for running live sound" is just a silly comment.

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But they'll find a giant analogue desk, with 16 busses an absolute breeze. The comment is pointless and without merit as with an 01v all they need understand is louder means up, quieter means down.

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Wow talk about pointless comments. First off you won't find a 16 buss desk anywhere close to that price range, in general you won't find an 8 bus desk for that, just a 4 bus. Two just because oyu have groups doesn't mean they need to be used. Three the O1V also has 4 busses. 4 Up and Down meaning louder or quieter is true of any desk. 5, if you are dealing with someone that can't handle basic routing you certainly don't want them on a digital desk, and chances are you don't want them running your gear at all unattended.

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You're in minority, given the number of 01v's that were sold and are still in regular use. To suggest it's "bad for running live sound" is just a silly comment.

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You are kidding right? Seriously, there are digital desks that are layed out and well set up for running live sound when you know what you are doing, and there are those that are not. The O1V was originally intended as a home studio desk to be honest, and it shows in its layout.

Yes I am well aware of how many O1Vs were sold, not only for live mixed sound, but also other purposes. You'd be amazed how many you run across in theme parks especially, but that doesn't change it being a poor choice for live sound. At the time it was a great value for people that wanted/needed 16 channels with all processing, and possibly scene recall automation, in a tiny package. But it doesn't change the fact that it is a poor layout for live sound mixing.

Seablade

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Wow talk about pointless comments. First off you won't find a 16 buss desk anywhere close to that price range, in general you won't find an 8 bus desk for that, just a 4 bus.

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Wrong again - DDX3216, 16 bus, £400.

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You are kidding right? Seriously, there are digital desks that are layed out and well set up for running live sound when you know what you are doing, and there are those that are not. The O1V was originally intended as a home studio desk to be honest, and it shows in its layout.

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First of all you say he's better off with external effects/compression, then you say he shouldn't have a desk that's too complicated as the on-site engineer might not understand it, then you say he should go for something as big as the Allen & Heath???

It's like being on the waltzer of opinion

By the way, if I had to guess I would say the sale of O1V desks for live sound has declined in recent years compared to 10-15 years ago. I see many less new consoles of that sort in circulation for live use than I used to. In fact I just checked some of the rental places I have gone through in the past, and the ones i looked at no longer list O1Vs for rental(Or the newer O1V 96). In fact most of them now list analogs only for that range of the market, and don't start listing digitals until they get in the price range of the LS9 etc. Even the ones that deal with recording equipment as well don't list the O1V, they started with the O2R.

Seablade

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Wrong again - DDX3216, 16 bus, £400.

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I hope you realize how silly it is to pull out a behringer board for this discussion right?

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First of all you say he's better off with external effects/compression, then you say he shouldn't have a desk that's too complicated as the on-site engineer might not understand it, then you say he should go for something as big as the Allen & Heath???

It's like being on the waltzer of opinion

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Have you seen the GL2400 series that I mentioned? They really aren't anything like the size and complexity of the large format consoles by Allen and Heath(Or others).

In case you missed it, I specifically listed two different use cases. One was as myself as an engineer looking for a rental. The other was as providing a full package and an engineer for an event. In both cases I personally come to the same conclusion.

There is a LARGE difference between various digital consoles from different manufacturers(And even some from the same), and unless you have run on a specific or very similar one before there is a much larger learning curve between different digital consoles compared to a relatively small learning curve between analog consoles which all tend to operate pretty similarly in their price brackets. I can walk up to almost any analog console in the world and pull off a sound check and show without much problem. I can't say the same about digital desks. Even ones I have run on I have to recall how different things are laid out. For instance, how effect routing is handled. This gets even worse on the high end digital consoles, but Ill leave that alone for the moment. Thus why it doesn't tend to work to well for short term (Single day or similar) rentals at all.

If you are dealing with the same console every day and are pretty comfortable with it, then yes a digital console makes more sense for a nice portable package. But this typically does not apply when, A, you likely already have the processing, and B, you are dealing with rentals or touring houses.

Seablade

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Especially since as he is replacing an analog desk it is a good bet he arleady has external processing. Give me a Live console and a couple of ACP88s and I will be a happy engineer.

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Correct, the Yammy has onboard SPX effects .... they're crap imho, so i've started to add outboard. Have 4 channels of compression/gates (another 2 channels on the way), a cheap Alesis Midiverb (another on the way), which is way better than the onboard, again, imho.

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Secondly as a rental company, if you are renting out gear to other engineers, that may or may not be familiar with digital, having analog is always a safer bet IMO, especially in the low end of the market, as you are more likely to come across less skilled clients that can't pick up a digital to quick, and haven't run a digital before, when dealing with low budget productions.

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I am a less than skilled enginneer (hehe, proved that in my HK thread), so this is very valid. I don't want to go digital for various reasons, a) I'm new, want to stick to analogue, learn to do it the old way. b) Starting to get festival work, will be a major part of my work next year, therefore multiple engineers, so as has been said, no problems with someone never having used a digi desk before.

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I will take an analog any day of the week, and usually in that price range I will be looking at Allen and Heath or similar.

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I'm thinking A&H is the logical step for me to take, if I don't just get the bigger Yammy. The mic pre-amps on the Yammy are very passable though, plus its got 4 grps, inserts on each, which is do-able and enough aux to run 4 stage monitors plus 2 external effects, inserts on every channel, so what extra would I be getting with an A&H ?

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Wrong again - DDX3216, 16 bus, £400.

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I won't be going Behringer. End of. Di's, fine, everything else, crap IMHO

I also don't want to go second hand, mainly for reliabillity issues (I can't afford to be hired and have the desk let me and the band and the whole gig down by failing. Ok, new is no gaurantee, but at least you know its history.

Thanks for everyones input so far, i'm gonna do some research tonight and tomorrow on some of the possibillities (not the Behringer though ) you have all mentioned.

Thanks people .....

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

Just thought i'd add, the Yammy's 14 outs are ideal.

4 x Aux for monitors
2 x Aux for outboard FX
4 x grps (use em all, but don't really need more)

The only gripe I have at present with the Yammy, other than being about 3 or 4 channels short is not being able to send the grps to the the aux sends (i.e monitors) without having to patch em to an empty channel (which i obivously don't have lol) Would also be nice to be able to send the main mix to the 4 Aux sends (mon mixes). I scored some major points with a couple of bands this past weekend (The Egg and The Mad Cows) by giving them 4 individual monitor mixes, they were amazed, said they rarely get more than 1 or 2 and have to fight for who gets 'more me' !!

Edited by Boston Green (06/08/08 07:56 PM)

might want to check out the soundcraft LX7ii
its a nice desk, 4 band eq, 6 auxes and 4 busses.

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Live Sound and Studio Engineer

Quote Paul Supersonix Studios:

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might want to check out the soundcraft LX7ii
its a nice desk, 4 band eq, 6 auxes and 4 busses.

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Has to be at least 32 channels.

EDIT: my mistake, they do a 32 channel one, sorry.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

Edited by Boston Green (06/08/08 08:00 PM)

you can get a 32 channel frame:)

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Live Sound and Studio Engineer

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I hope you realize how silly it is to pull out a behringer board for this discussion right?

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http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Apr02/articles/behringerddx3216.asp

Which would make Paul White, 'silly'........?

Yeah sorry Paul, my edit was done as you replied, I realise they do a 32 channel.

Judging so far by what you've all said, in the price range, i'm kinda looking at:

Yamaha MG32/14fx £629
Soundcraft LX7II 32 £1185
Allen & Heath ZED-436 £1299

The last two prices are just DV prices, so i'm sure I can do better.

Will take a look at the bottome two tonight/tomorrow and see if I the double price tag is worth it over the Yamaha MG32/14

Thanks everyone.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

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I'm thinking A&H is the logical step for me to take, if I don't just get the bigger Yammy. The mic pre-amps on the Yammy are very passable though, plus its got 4 grps, inserts on each, which is do-able and enough aux to run 4 stage monitors plus 2 external effects, inserts on every channel, so what extra would I be getting with an A&H ?

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Well for the moment I will stick with the GL2400 series, which, going off memory, has the following things a bit better than the MG series....

L/R Mixing with an Aux Fed Mono. (Useful in L/C/R situations at the sacrifice of one Aux, though it can also be a L/R sum if memory serves)

The addition of 4 matrixes. They certainly don't need to be used at all, but they can be VERY useful for larger systems when dealing with fills, or doing a 2 track recording, cry rooms, or whatever. Picture it as a aux submix of your groups.

The ability to swap the Auxes and groups onto faders to use for monitor mixing.

Basic input metering on every channel. While not as good as a meterbridge, I do find it very useful in troubleshooting quickly.

The ability to change metering and Direct Out points on each channel. This does require taking the board apart but it isn't difficult to do to be honest. Just make sure you have the right size Torx driver.

The ability to have a redundant power supply. Never underestimate this. Its an extra expense, but when a power supply goes out, it can ruin a show real quick. Personal experience there, and is what got one company I worked for to actually invest in one finally.

I don't remember off hand what the construction style on the MG series is, whether it is a single board construction or not. The A+H is not a single board construction, so you could, if you needed, swap out single channels if one goes bad, instead of having to replace an entire board(See Mackie or Behringer boards for examples of single board construction).

More flexible EQ. 4 Band, dual sweepable mid. Not quite a parametric but will be a step up from what you are used to.

Ability to use a stereo channel as a mic input in a pinch if you need to. Won't have as good EQ, and I think the aux routing may be different, can't remember off hand, but it fills in in a pinch for things like a god mic for theater.

Talkback Mic. Useful to save your voice on occasion;) Can route it into any aux or main out if memory serves.

I am sure there are things I am forgetting, but I don't remember it right off hand. You will obviously lose the built in effects of the MG series. Not that that is all that big a loss to me, but just keep it in mind;)

Seablade

Who honestly has no affiliation with A+H that he knows of.

Quote Boston Green:

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I won't be going Behringer. End of. Di's, fine, everything else, crap IMHO

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Yet some of your rig is cheap, bottom-end kit like the Midiverb (another on the way, but why when you can buy a TC M300 for £80) and Aphex????

Quote Parker Fly:

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I hope you realize how silly it is to pull out a behringer board for this discussion right?

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<a href="/sos/Apr02/articles/behringerddx3216.asp" target="_blank">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Apr02/articles/behringerddx3216.asp< /a>

Which would make Paul White, 'silly'........?

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When used in the context of this discussion, yes.

On a different note, my personal complaint about the LX7ii was, again going off memory, that the groups can't be routed in mono at all. That you HAVE to use them in stereo. This can be of varying importance depending on who you are though I suppose, but that makes a difference to me anyways.

Seablade

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Well for the moment I will stick with the GL2400 series,

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Yeah, but the 32 Channel is 50% more than what i'd prefer to pay.

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which, going off memory, has the following things a bit better than the MG series....

The addition of 4 matrixes. Picture it as a aux submix of your groups.

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That would be nice. The situation I had last weekend was not actually running out of channels, I had just enough for the inputs, but I didnt have any spare to route the grps to channels to do aux mixes of the subs. Matrixes, if I understand them right would do this for me.

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The ability to swap the Auxes and groups onto faders to use for monitor mixing.

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Again, that would be excellent, it was a real pain, and somewhat confusing 'dialling' in on every channel what got sent to the monitors via the little aux send knobs.

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Basic input metering on every channel. While not as good as a meterbridge, I do find it very useful in troubleshooting quickly.

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Useful, however the MG has pfl on every channel which has its own meter next to the master meter, I manage with this, lol, albeit with a lot of very quick finger stabbing , but instant, simultaneous visualisaition on every channel would be cool.

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The ability to have a redundant power supply. Never underestimate this. Its an extra expense, but when a power supply goes out, it can ruin a show real quick. Personal experience there, and is what got one company I worked for to actually invest in one finally.

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At the expence of showing my dumbness, but not sure what you're meaning. Do you mean that you can have two kettle leads running side by side (with there big black inline box, which i'm presuming is the PS) attached, so if one fails you can switch to the other ?

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I don't remember off hand what the construction style on the MG series is, whether it is a single board construction or not. The A+H is not a single board construction, so you could, if you needed, swap out single channels if one goes bad, instead of having to replace an entire board(See Mackie or Behringer boards for examples of single board construction).

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I'll certainly check the Yammy out on this, don't know if you can swap individual channels out on it. Stop mentioning Behringer, please

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Talkback Mic. Useful to save your voice on occasion;) Can route it into any aux or main out if memory serves.

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Yammy MG has this, very handy, especially when conducting a soundcheck whilst a DJ is in full swing

I think my choices have been narrowed, will have to digest all the info, download the manuals for each and see if its worth the jump up from the Yamaha ....

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

Quote Parker Fly:

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Quote Boston Green:

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I won't be going Behringer. End of. Di's, fine, everything else, crap IMHO

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Yet some of your rig is cheap, bottom-end kit like the Midiverb (another on the way, but why when you can buy a TC M300 for £80) and Aphex????

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Indeed, the DBX and midiverb are bottom line, but bottom line doesnt need to mean crap sounding, or noisy, which is the main problem with Behringer stuff. The midiverb is a major step up from the onboard fx the yamaha desk has on it, which is the SOLE reason I bought it, I needed outboard fx for last weekend so bought the midiverb, which served the purpose well.

The Aphex really just gets used at home when i'm mastering, or when just using the top boxes in pubs etc.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

i think the 3 desks you have shortlisted are all good for their price, its now how much can you afford,
obviously the A+H is much better but costs twice as much.
it may be worth stretching to this and then not need to feel you need to upgrade again
if you can try out the desks as well, i dont like the faders on the LXii they are flimsy

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Live Sound and Studio Engineer

Price does seem to be the major factor here.

With the Yammy its kinda like a 2 for 1 deal, considering its being used in hire situations, albeit 75% by me, if it gets bust, its less of a hassle.

BUT, you are right, the more I get into it, the better I want. Constantly upgrading is a bitch, at least with this upgrade I get to leave the MG24/14 plugged in at home, now that is a right royal pain in the butt disconnecting and reconnecting it at home after every gig.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

Edited by Boston Green (06/08/08 08:54 PM)

You might want to check out yamaha ga32/12 since you won't be using internal effects.

It's a bit older desk but also a lot more features than the mg-series.

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Yeah, but the 32 Channel is 50% more than what i'd prefer to pay.

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Yea its hard for me to judge prices sometimes due to being on the other side of the pond, and A+H gets taxed on Import over here, whereas yall get taxed on import of American products;) I also was typing that when you clarified which A+H you were looking at price wise. Not familiar with the Zed, sorry.

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That would be nice. The situation I had last weekend was not actually running out of channels, I had just enough for the inputs, but I didnt have any spare to route the grps to channels to do aux mixes of the subs. Matrixes, if I understand them right would do this for me.

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Yes, assuming I am understanding you correctly, matrices would do exactly this, and in many cases have an option to patch in an external line level input into them directly as well. I use this very often myself.

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Again, that would be excellent, it was a real pain, and somewhat confusing 'dialling' in on every channel what got sent to the monitors via the little aux send knobs.

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Keep in mind that flipping back and forth between them during a show isn't how you would use this, as the moment you switched back it would switch to those knobs again for their master levels.

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At the expence of showing my dumbness, but not sure what you're meaning. Do you mean that you can have two kettle leads running side by side (with there big black inline box, which i'm presuming is the PS) attached, so if one fails you can switch to the other ?

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Assuming my translation of kettle leads is correct(Your equivalent of our IEC cables I believe) you are close. In most cases what this means is that you have two external rackmounted power supplies, and a custom cable coming up from each of them to your board. Only one is plugged in at a time usually of course, but if a powersupply fails you literally just do a repatch of the cable and keep going. As opposed to things like the Mackie consoles, or that Yammie, where the power supply is internal with no option for an external, so if it dies you are SOL pretty much. The GL2400 has an internal power supply, but it has a hookup for an external as well for redundancy(And conceviably you could have multiple externals for several layers of redundancy if you want). It will still take your show down for a brief moment, but better a brief moment than the entire rest of the show. The one I mentioned above blew during an intermission with nothing going on on stage. Really made the second half of the show interesting as it was all acoustic.

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Stop mentioning Behringer, please

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Sorry just one of the first ones that came to mind that I KNEW used that;)

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I think my choices have been narrowed, will have to digest all the info, download the manuals for each and see if its worth the jump up from the Yamaha ....

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Yep have fun. Some of this, as you can probably guess, comes down to personal choice, but a lot of it is going to come down to deciding what features you need and what console fits that bill and fits it the best for the money you have.

Seablade

Going through the consoles you have listed I kinda like the Zed mixer at first glance. Though I would want to listen to it first, particularly the pres. Its matrices aren't quite as flexible as the GL2400's and it only has two, but for many people that may be worth it. The EQ section is ripped straight out of the GL2400 though and I had not complaints about it there. The USB audio I personally don't care about, but it could be useful for someone I suppose.

The direct outs and metering aren't configurable like the GL2400, for one thing there isn't the same metering as the GL2400 obviously, and I would bet that the default solder links will work fine for most people.

But in general it has some nice things about it. However I ahven't used the Ma series suggested from Yammie, so maybe that is worth looking at.

Hmm strange they say the EQ is right form the GL2400, as I don't recall the low mid on the GL2400 sweepable down to 35 Hz...

Also keep in mind that only two of the auxes are switchable between pre and post fade. Also the Mono isn't quite as nice, but still useful.

At any rate, between those three, I would be looking closest at the Zed for my own use I think.

Seablade

Quote Tommyhell:

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You might want to check out yamaha ga32/12 since you won't be using internal effects.

It's a bit older desk but also a lot more features than the mg-series.

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Does look quite usefull, just can't find anyone selling one to find out how much they go for

Seablade: Gonna do some proper reading up on the Matrix things, definately sounds like a feature that could be hugely useful.

I've now had the chance to have a quick spin through the manuals but think I might try hiring myself a Zed for the weekend, get a proper chance to play around with the extra features and check out how the pre's sound. The GL2400 looks on paper and sounds from everything you and others have said like it would be the perfect choice .......

I might end up putting the mixer upgrade off for a couple of months, get the extra PA cabinets sorted and then get the GL2400, lol, although I also have a pair of active HK XBA18's on my shopping list

Thanks again chaps.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

How about a Mackie 32/4 with 28 (I hate stereo channels masquerading as mic channels) mic inputs.

PS. I agree with Seablade

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PA stuff on FB


Edited by Guy Johnson (07/08/08 04:33 PM)

Just a quick response as I don't have much time

Seablade is (as usual) speaking truth, O1V is horrid horrid horrid to mix a gig on, I can use some digital desks for live sound but not this.

The Zed is a step sideways as much as upwards I feel... it's not really a live desk. I'd recommend a GL2200 second hand (or GL2400 if you can stretch to that), they are both 'proper' analogue mixers and are where you should be looking to upgrade.

I would always prefer A&H to Soundcraft in this price range, the GL series of desks are easy to navigate, not unnecessarily complex and will have the features you need.

my tuppence worth on this er comprehensive discussion is in the same vein. Having used a Zed, GL and Soundcraft i would steer clear of Zed and try and stretch to the GL series as suggested. Worth it in the long run.

Quote catag:

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my tuppence worth on this er comprehensive discussion is in the same vein. Having used a Zed, GL and Soundcraft i would steer clear of Zed and try and stretch to the GL series as suggested. Worth it in the long run.

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Hey catag

What was it about the ZED you specifically didn't like?

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

having worked with most of the A&H consoles in this price range (i live 20 minutes from the factory, have close ties etc ) i must agree the GL2400 is the best choice here. while the ZED is almost as good, it lacks a few key features that makes it a flexible live desk, such as being able to flip aux/group masters. i personally use a mixwizard 16:2 for live use, housed inside an SKB gigrig - ultimate portability! not so good if you want more channels though..

to whoever suggested ganging a couple of 01Vs together - what poor advice. live digital consoles in this price bracket just dont exist yet. the 01V is definitely not built for road use. i've even seen some allegedly 'rugged' top end consoles die a nasty death when various parts more suited to being installed in a home computer die. the industry is still ironing out this reliability problem. until then, i will not be buying a digital desk for live use.

Well, still havnt managed to get my hand on a Zed to play with ..... but I had soooooo much fun last night on a 24 ch gl2400 that I think i'll go with the 32 channel one.

Very intuitive to use, easy to find everthing (even for someone like me thats not been on that many desks). But didnt have time to investigate the matrix things.

Pre-amps sounded sweet, but as I said, can't compare them with the Zed. I would say that although there was a difference .... it wasnt as huge as I thought it would be between the quality of my yamaha pre's and the GL's, but having said that, the venues actual PA wasn't all that so maybe the better quality would of shone through more on a decent rig.

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www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.

there is a difference in the way the preamps work on the zed, in that they are taken from the PA series rather than the GL. there is no pad, but instead two gain stages. the XLR input goes through both stages, and the line input through one. i think the range is slightly greater too.

what also struck me at first was that the '4 bus' zeds have a mono bus, whereas the GL2400 instead uses aux6.

Hey Mervaka, any thoughts on how the ZED 4 buss and the GL2400 compare soundwise?

I read somewhere that it was an advantage in not having a pad on the XLR input, but presumably you'd need to patch into the line input with a hot signal, which would be a pain from an XLR snake.

Cheers

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz