orangefunk
new member
Joined: 18/09/01
Posts: 137
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What mic for a sax?
#67691 - 29/12/04 10:34 PM
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My sax player is looking for a new mic for live use. We tried my SM58 today and it
sounded very bright and all top end with no bass..
Any suggestions for a good live
mic under £100 (high limit)
Cheers
O
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Ultimate Fish
posting's fun
Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 1910
Loc: York, UK
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#67778 - 30/12/04 10:22 AM
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Get one of these: http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT831b.htmland an AT8418 to go with it: http://www.audiotechnica.com/guide/other/misc/mounts/index.html(it's a bit down the page) I've used this combination on sax and trumpet and it
sounds good. It's a bit above your budget, but it'll do the job well.
-------------------- need to get rid of this stupid sig...
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Hugh Robjohns
SOS Technical Editor
Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 18348
Loc: Worcestershire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#67799 - 30/12/04 11:35 AM
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Quote orangefunk:
My sax player
is looking for a new mic for live use. We tried my SM58 today and it sounded very bright
and all top end with no bass.
The SM58 is designed to be as a vocal mic very close to the vocalist's mouth. It has a
deliberately rolled off bottom end which only sounds right when used very close to the
source so that the proximity effect bolsters the LF.
So, if you placed the SM58
more than a few inches away from the sax, it would tend to sound very thin.
Secondly, the sax is a complex instrument in terms of where the different harmonic
components are emitted fromthe instrument. Placing a mic in the bell (as most stage
applications do) will tend to produce a very 'sqawky' bright sound. If you want a mellow
sound, you have to place the mic further back and angled so it can 'see' the rest of the
instrument body... but to do that you'll need a mic which provides a much flatter basic
response.
I can't recommend any specific models in your price range, but look
for a general purpose instrument mic, rather than a vocalist mic, and something with a
flat response without too much proximity effect. A dynamic mic would probably give you a
fuller sound than a condenser, although there are a lot of very affordable condensers
around these days that sound excellent.
Hope that helps
hugh
--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#67941 - 30/12/04 06:11 PM
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I use a TGX 45 vocal mike, and rolloff Tons of top. It has a good bass response, and
so can get you body . . . G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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orangefunk
new member
Joined: 18/09/01
Posts: 137
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#67979 - 30/12/04 09:32 PM
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thanks all... I think we're tending to favour a traditional mic over a clip on mic as you
can do more with regard to getting different sounds by moving close and further away..
What about a Shure SM57?
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Ultimate Fish
posting's fun
Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 1910
Loc: York, UK
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#68115 - 31/12/04 12:31 PM
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The 57 is a good instrument mic. It really depends on how much noise is around and how
much gain you want to achieve. A clip on mic is a good compromise in a noisy situation,
but if things are a bit more mellow then a 57 would work well. You'll probably still find
that you have to get quite close to it though.
--------------------
need to get rid of this stupid sig...
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Mr C
Joined: 31/12/04
Posts: 8
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Ultimate Fish]
#68185 - 31/12/04 05:02 PM
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I would say your best bet is to use a Beta 57a. An SM58 is a good all round mic, it has a
fairly flat response but as already stated it does have its bottom end rolled off around
200hz to provide more detail to vocals and speech, which as you know wont provide much
weight to your sax. The Sm57 is very similar spec to the Sm58 its just designed more for
pointing at drum skins and guitars etc. The Beta57a however will provide much more warmth
in the places you need it. I will also add that positioning is just as crucial as using
the right type of mic, this mic will work best around an inch or two from the source, i
too would not recommend placing the mic into the bell after all the sax is an instrument
that really projects its sound and this is where the most rounded sounds can be found.
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Hugh Robjohns
SOS Technical Editor
Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 18348
Loc: Worcestershire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Mr C]
#68353 - 01/01/05 10:26 AM
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Quote Mr C:
An SM58 is a good all
round mic, it has a fairly flat response but as already stated it does have its bottom end
rolled off around 200hz to provide more detail to vocals and speech...
Sorry to be picky, but this isn't actually
the case. The low frequency roll off is there to help reduce the chances of acoustic
feedback in live stage applications. It certainly doesn't provide more detail to vocals or
speech -- that is the role of the whopping +5dB presence peak that spans roughly 2 to
10kHz.
When used very close (ie under a couple of inches) to the source (ie
mouth) the inherent proximity effect restores the LF response for the source, thus
providing the required full bodied sound.
However, distant sources (such as the
foldback monitors) are still heavily attenuated at low frequencies which is very handy
since the mic's nominally cardioid polar response inherently opens out towards omni at low
frequencies, thus providing far less rejection to the rear.
hugh
--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound
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adrian_k
Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1741
Loc: Gloucestershire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#68824 - 03/01/05 11:18 AM
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Based on your budget, how about an AKG C419? I can't see any standard dynamic mic being
satisfactory unless you can nail the player's feet to the floor, those I've played with
say they can't play unless they can move... cheers
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#69090 - 03/01/05 11:18 PM
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I have found that saxes with 'on board' mics never are as dynamic. With a fixed mic on a
stand, the player can move in and out, and make a much more involving performance. G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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Michael Harrison
active member
Joined: 10/09/02
Posts: 1865
Loc: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: adrian_k]
#69128 - 04/01/05 01:53 AM
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Quote dunch:
Based on your
budget, how about an AKG
C419?
...because they
sound like sh*t??! 
Sorry, I'll try something more constructive. 
The C419 is a condenser, and as such requires phantom power. Being a small clip-on mic,
it has a very slim cable (about 2mm thick) which terminates in a phantom power adapter; a
kind of lengthy XLR barrel-type unit. This plugs into either your preamp, stagebox or
another XLR to extend length.
I used these mics as part of an AKG drum mic
kit a few years ago. Apart from not liking the sound (slightly hard & boxy; personal
opinion) I found them to be quite fragile/succeptible to damage, and the attached cable
seemed quite flimsy too.
The reason I state this is that if being used on
sax, I'd personally be concerned that the player might stand on the cable as he's moving
about (if so), and with the next movement damage the mic, cable or phantom power
attachment. Something to consider...
Note - I'm typing this from memory; if
any of this is wrong, I stand to be corrected!
Although I like AKG stuff, I
thought they were an odd product; a bit flimsy for live use, and there are many better
sounding mics which can be used in the studio. Still, each to their own. 
Mike
--------------------
www.ehsound.co.uk - Live Sound Hire & Services
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James Perrett
Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 9645
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
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The AKG sax mic comes with a belt pack that either contains batteries or uses phantom
power. To my ears an SM58 sounds better - the AKG needs major EQ to get a good sound. Some
sax players don't like clip on mics because they use the proximity effect as part of their
sound. Some sax players also like to quietly try things out off mic too. A Sennheiser 421
would be another suggestion. I've also used a Sennheiser 504 on sax with acceptable
results. Cheers. James.
-------------------- JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net
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morphsville
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Joined: 23/03/04
Posts: 516
Loc: Belfast
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#69379 - 04/01/05 05:44 PM
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I helped a live engineer friend at a jazz festival once and he tried an Audix OM7 on sax
and it sounded great, except it is a lot more directional than a 57 or 58 so the sound was
jumping about as the player moved off axis...
He said his usual "go to" mic on
Saxophones is the Audix D2 or D4
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Ultimate Fish
posting's fun
Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 1910
Loc: York, UK
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Guy Johnson]
#69558 - 05/01/05 08:34 AM
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Quote Guy Johnson:
I have found
that saxes with 'on board' mics never are as dynamic. With a fixed mic on a stand, the
player can move in and out, and make a much more involving performance.
G
That's true, but it does rely on
the player having a good mic technique.
--------------------
need to get rid of this stupid sig...
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#69895 - 05/01/05 07:38 PM
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Sure - buy the good players normally do have good mic technique, as do good singers . .
. Hmm . . . let's hope we don't get a repeat of a previous thread in the old
Forum! G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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Thomas Hobbes
Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 11
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#70034 - 06/01/05 01:07 AM
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Starting off, if you didn't like the SM58, you won't like the SM57, it is basically the
same response plot.
Moving right along. I ahve had great success with using
Sennheiser's e609-Silver for sax and horns. It is hyper-cardiod, so that will effect you
if you sway alot when playing. Great off axis rejection, and yes typically used for
electric guitar, short of an MD421, best mic I have heard for sax.
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#70406 - 06/01/05 06:23 PM
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The SM 57 has a better bass and treble-response, than the '58. G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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Zarf
member
Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 41
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Guy Johnson]
#71336 - 08/01/05 08:26 PM
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You could try the small MXL mic - MXL 603. They're pretty fair on sax, but I've never
tried one live so don't know about feedback rejection. Maybe scour ebay for a used
MD421?
Zarf
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#71451 - 09/01/05 10:52 AM
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I have 3 used 421's (no, I'm NOT selling them!) and they are brilliant mics - worth trying
on anyhting, and often overlooked on recordings, too. G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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Mr C
Joined: 31/12/04
Posts: 8
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Guy Johnson]
#72082 - 10/01/05 06:25 PM
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Yes the MD421 is a great mic but the brief was a microphone that costs no more than £100.
You are suggesting mics that cost £200 - £300! Thats why i suggested the Beta 57a and it
isn't exactly the same plot as an SM57. There are much better mics for the job but not for
less than 100 quid! http://164.109.27.207/microphones/models/beta57a.asp
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3954
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: orangefunk]
#72252 - 11/01/05 12:11 AM
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Phaaa! Briefs!! Panties!!! Someone wants a good sound, they will have to spend
some cash, and comparisons are also very useful. G
-------------------- PA stuff on FB
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LawrenceH
member
Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 485
Loc: Cambridge
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Re: What mic for a sax?
[Re: Guy Johnson]
#72941 - 12/01/05 10:05 PM
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Hi,
For under £100 I think the Rode NT3 is a very good choice, recommended to me in
turn by a sax player on this forum. It has a lot more detail and is much smoother than an
sm58 - however it depends what kind of music you play. They have a battery power option as
well as phantom, and seem pretty robust. However it has quite a strong output at +48 so an
older mixer might struggle with the gain range - I used mine into an old Spirit Live desk
and the clip light was coming on with the gain at minimum. Oh and Digital village are
doing them for £90 at the moment, an absolute bargain IMHO.
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