Good day!

I'm a newbie to the whole recording thing and wanted to buy a decent PC for it. I hope to run an MBox2 Pro and Pro Tools 8 LE on it.

I don't really want to build my own so I looked at a dell offer that seemed pretty good. It seems like a beast but people keep writing about all sorts of scary things like 'bottlenecks' that seem to affect 'good' PCs as well. Basically, I want to ask if this spec seems okay and won't be a waste of money and time:

It's a dell XPS 730:

Motherboard - they wouldn't say
Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz)
RAM - 4GB (2x2Gb) Dual Channel DDR3 SDRam @ 1067Mhz (they wouldn't say what company makes it)
Sound Card - an integrated sound blaster x-Hifi
Graphics - 2x512Mb GeForce 9800GTs
Running Vista Ultimate 32 bit
And it comes with some sort of hybrid cooling system

I don't need such a powerful grphics card to be honest and I don't need to worry about how much background noise it's going to make because it'll be in another room to my studio.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Martin Walker (12/01/09 03:11 PM)

Hi Harbz!

And Welcome to the SOS Forums!

I moved your post from the 'Survey Of Working Multi-Core PC Music Systems' thread, since it doesn't really fit there, and you're more likely to get responses from a separate thread of your own.

You've already found the significant problems of buying a PC like a Dell, since you're unlikely to find out the make and model of motherboard, the firewire controller chip, and so on. The integrated SoundBlaster soundchip might be more of a hindrance than a help as well.

Hopefully with my carefully re-written thread title someone who has one of these machines will spot it and let you know how thye got on.

Fingers crossed anyway!


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

Hi Harbz,

The DDR2 SDRAM in my XPS is from PQI CORP. The only real problems I've ever had have been due to the Audigy soundcard being locked at 48 or 96 KHz which makes revisiting old projects a bit tricky, but if you're running an MBox2 Pro it won't be an issue.

The only other issue with Dell is they tend to come with Norton preinstalled & Norton don't really make it easy for people to navigate to the uninstaller on their website!

Surely it's much to pretty to hide away though

Mike

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

G'day Harbz

I dont have this xps 730 Dell, cause i dont do gaming

Its got an nvidia 790i chipset sli mobo ... for gaming. Best avoided for audio.
That dual graphics card is way overkill for audio and will take up too much physical address space which would be better off being reserved for memory sticks.
The whole system will be noisy with all them fans... psu, heatsink, graphics card ...
Dell arent known getting the quietest components.

The cpu is good, the memory FSB is slow.
How much are they charging.


What kind of audio, midi work will you do Harbz, how heavy.
The mbox2 may not work so well with vista, likewise maybe with protols le 8, a google search may give user opinions.

If you are in the UK,
Directresoultion, PaQ, Scan all post here, theyd do a specialist audio pc with winxp, Q9550 anyday
and a darn site better for audio than any off the shelf.
Well worth a look.

Quote Harbz:

---

I don't really want to build my own so I looked at a dell offer that seemed pretty good. It seems like a beast but people keep writing about all sorts of scary things like 'bottlenecks' that seem to affect 'good' PCs as well. Basically, I want to ask if this spec seems okay and won't be a waste of money and time

---

The things is you can't tell how well it will work for audio performance just by looking at the specs. The DPC latency thread has many examples of PCs that look great on paper, but are awful for low latency reliable (glitch free) audio performance. Many are Dells.

Dell (and other large manufacturers) really don't care about niche users like us - so it's a bit of a hit and miss affair. Many Dells work fine, some don't. Dell laptops are particularly bad.

Most importantly that's a hell of a price to pay - and most of that price is for a few extra % performance and ridiculously fast graphics. You'll easily get something much cheaper, less over-spec'd for your needs and have some guarantees it will work well for audio.

p.s. Even a Mac Pro works out cheaper than those Dells! Much better choice assuming you're not a gamer. Actually this price comparison may be wrong - but the only XPS 730 on the Dell website has an i7 processor for >£2.5K not a Q9550 so not sure where you found that one?

Edited by HugoL (12/01/09 11:10 PM)

Dell laptop ?
I'd rather take up smoking again.

Built to a price, with bodged windows drivers, knocked together quickly and flooged off cheap.
Possibly the worst of all the known manufacturers, I have repaired many.
If you gave me one for free, I'd sell it.

if you want to run Protools on windows, I would recommend you visit the Digidesign website and take a good look at their compatibility list.

Dell + Vista + PT = Many hours spent, but NOT making any music !

Quote Scope:

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Dell laptop ?
I'd rather take up smoking again.

---

Sorry Scope, that was me mentioning Dell laptops as an example. I think the OP is after a desktop. Hope I haven't set you back too many weeks with your therapist - but I guess talking about it is the best long-term cure

Yep, you're right it is, I just have recurring nightmares of Dell laptops !!!

dam them and their cheap flimsy cases......

Hello again. Thanks for all your help! I was pleasantly surprised at all the useful posts to this forum.

I've decided to steer clear of Dell after this advice. I'm not a gamer (bar FIFA 09 because I'm a bit of a football nut - it only needs 256Mb graphics anyway) and I think the potential risks involved far outweigh Dell's 10% off offer. They wanted 3350NZD (incl 10% off) for this machine which is about 1900USD or 1300GBP. HugoL, I wish Mac Pros were this cheap :P.

In response to table for two, I plan to run 4 condensor mics and one MIDI keyboard but would like a machine that could run about 8 mics at the same time just in case. The mics would be for recording an upright piano and electric guitar.

I live at the bottom of the world in New Zealand so unfortunately companies that build niche audio PCs are hard to come by and importing such machines can be costly. If anyone knew of any in NZ that would be a great help but currently I think my best option might be to buy Mac or build my own.

I shall consult the many forums and surveys on these things. Thanks again!

Macs are great (at a premium for style and the OS), but obviously the rest of the range is a lot less powerful and expandable. Who knows when they're going to bring out the rumoured quad-core upgrades - maybe any week/month.

Mind you unless you're running a load of heavy virtual instruments a current iMac or MacBook will probably be fine. Recording a handful of audio channels isn't exactly going to tax a modern machine and external DSP can always be used if you need lots of plug-in processing later.

However you really should consider building your own PC. It's pretty easy and there will be a great deal of help on this forum. The other option is of course to go get a PC magazine and buy a standard pre-built system where you can validate each component in it in advance for suitability - in particular the motherboard. Again check the forum history or ask. Most people here would recommend Gigabyte, Intel or Asus motherboards. I use a Gigabyte P35 motherboard with an over-clocked Q6600 for example, which whilst not cutting edge is tried and tested, great bang-for-buck and will smoke all Macs bar the Pro.

Edited by HugoL (13/01/09 01:06 AM)

As Hugo says I'd suggest building your own. You can get the components that YOU want which is pretty important.

Pro Tools is pretty annoying hardware wise if I'm honest. Before you start sniffing around computers make sure you check out the digidesign forums over at http://duc.digidesign.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17 . Theres a lot of good information over there that helped me sort out my issues.

With regards to your mic set-ups.... Steer clear of any M-box if you want 8 ins and outs. The most you'll get from one is 6 from the Mbox2 Pro, 2 mics, 2 lines and 2 as S/PDIF. Have a look at the 003 series if you can stretch to that as you'll get more I/O and ADAT too.

Theres lots of other options available to you if you use M-Audio interfaces with Pro Tools M-Powered. Theres hardly any losses between M-Powered and LE so no worries there. You can also run it with any M-audio interface which will probably end up cheaper. In fact, want to buy my Mbox2 Pro and I'll switch to M-audio? hahaha I regret my choice a bit!

Pro Tools also needs a Firewire Controller made by Texas Instruments. It can run on other controllers (mines a VIA) but TI is the best you can get compatibility wise.

I know I havnt mentioned any specifics but if you want some feel free to ask or message me. Just thought I'd give you a few pointers with Pro Tools as it can be a really picky program! Definitely worth it in the end, I'm a total PT junkie!

In addition to what Akkatha said

Quote Harbz:

---

I plan to run 4 condensor mics and one MIDI keyboard but would like a machine that could run about 8 mics at the same time just in case.
The mics would be for recording an upright piano and electric guitar.

---

Aright H

A single core could cope with that, its what happens after recording, the processing with plugins that will tax the cpu.


If you dont want to roll your own

http://www.pricespy.co.nz/company.php is a list of pc retailers etc

http://www.acetech.co.nz/shop/index.php?cPath=1 even sell some audio gear
They have this quad pc http://www.acetech.co.nz/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=95 2
Comes with 22" lcd monitor, vista & antivirus : all three unnecessary. The asus p5k se mobo with intel p35 chipset is neat enough has esata which is useful.
Graphcs card has a fan on it, fanless preferable.
Best check check what psu & wattage (a 120mm or 140mm fan one by say akasa, coolermaster, corsair, seasonic, thermaltake would be nice), which memory manufacturer, which hd and if there are 2HDs.

http://www.elive.co.nz/elive-computer-system-vista-p1632.php Dual core but a 3GHz penryn. This one has more info.
Gigabyte mobo is neat has intel P45 chipset. Graphic card has a fan. Comes with vista.

If you need firewire, TI firewire cards can be had for about $68nz.

Hopefully these companies are reputable.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. I have looked at all of the links given and plan to use the advice given in all of them.
At the moment I might wait until February because it's rumoured that iMac updates usually come out around then. It would be interesting to see what Apple might be able to offer in the quad core realm if that is the case.

I also did a quick bit of research and found these components for a PC:

Intel i7 920 "Nehalem" QC 2.66GHz w/ 8Mb L3 Cache
ASUS P6T Deluxe 1600 motherboard
Patriot 6Gb(3x2Gb) DDR3 ram @ 1600MHz
1.5 Terabyte Seagate HD with NCQ 32Mb (possibly add another)
Radeon HD 4850 512Mb single card (Rain PCs use them, they should be decent)

If you factor in the OS, PSU and case costs it would probably be about 3300 NZD/1800USD/1200GBP.

I am yet to check compatibility issues etc. but just looking at these things brought up a few questions:

1) Is Windows 7 due sometime in 2009?
2) Is Patriot a reputable RAM company for audio solutions? They're fairly famous gaming wise (I know Alienware uses them)
3) I understand 32-bit windows (which I would run if I built this) can't take advantage of 6Gb Ram. Would it be possible to just plug two of the 2Gb sticks in instead of 3 and wait until an OS upgrade?
4) Is it good to keep your operating system hard drive and audio hard drive separate?
5) The motherboard has onboard, high definition audio. Is this a problem really as I plan to be getting in audio interface?
6) Is there a problem with SAS hard drives and audio (just out of interest?

Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Heya H

Quote Harbz:

---

brought up a few questions:

---

1) Is Windows 7 due sometime in 2009?

yep


2) Is Patriot a reputable RAM company for audio solutions? They're fairly famous gaming wise (I know Alienware uses them)

Dell owns alienware now, yes that memory is for gaming & overclocakbility.
Best check its voltage is supported by mobo.



3) I understand 32-bit windows (which I would run if I built this) can't take advantage of 6Gb Ram.

Correct


Would it be possible to just plug two of the 2Gb sticks in instead of 3 and wait until an OS upgrade?

Plug all 3 to ensure they work & OS is stable.



4) Is it good to keep your operating system hard drive and audio hard drive separate?

Yes



5) The motherboard has onboard, high definition audio. Is this a problem really as I plan to be getting in audio interface?

Disable it in BIOS



6) Is there a problem with SAS hard drives and audio (just out of interest?

Need a SAS controller card ... pricey. Possible hit on cpu. Bit more heat esp on 15K rpm drives. Noise of drive.
Price per GB is high eg 10K rpm fujitsu 73GB about £140, 15K rpm 36GB fujitsu £150.

The only thing I would add is that you've spec'd out all the very latest stuff - so it would be prudent to try to see if any DAW builders are using the same motherboard.

It's just risky otherwise as you might be exposed to issues relating to things like BIOS, drivers and compatibility with DSP and audio cards. The DAWs with the lowest latencies aren't always using the very latest chips.

Sweet. So I looked through the forums and found a newbie trying to do almost exactly the same thing and I've decided to copy his system after all the advice on that forum (most of it's by HugoL and table for two - you guys are machines!).

Anyway here it is:

CPU: Intel i7-920
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5
Ram: either a G.Skill or Corsair (3x2Gb) set at 1600 MHz (not sure about voltages yet)
HD (OS): WD Caviar 500GB (16MB cache)
HD (audio): WD Caviar 1TB (16MB cache)
Graphics: Sapphire Radeon HD 4650 or 4670
OS: XP pro or Ulitimate 32-bit until Windows 7 comes out.
PSU: Probably a seasonic S-12 430W supply

The only problems are the case and the sound card.
I truly have no idea about sound cards or cases. I'm not even sure I need a sound card since I hope to get a digidesign audio interface (Mbox or similar).

Any help in these two areas would be greatly appreciated.

Heya H


From that other thread

Quote table for two:

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Gigabyte UD5 is what i wouldhave chosen. Worth waiting for Peter's findings on the DS4.

---

The DS4 is basically the UD5 but without esata & 2 less sata ports.


Apart from that looks ok, i would've gone for 32mb cache hds, 256mb passively cooled graphics card, 500W modular psu.


OS : xp 32


Case ... if you were in the UK, no brainer the PaQ.

Rackmount, tower ?
Antec, Coolermaster, Thermalright, with USB & Firewire port & 120mm case fan.



With dididesign stuff best check everything (hw, sw) going to be compatible.