Main Forums >> Live Sound & Performance
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
Forum AdminAdministrator



Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 2336
Loc: Cambridge
Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions
      #778850 - 14/10/09 07:50 AM
The Music Industries Association recently wrote to its members urging us to bring the following absurdity to a wider audience, to see if people power can help get things changed.

A web site has been set up to petition the Government to allow licensing concessions for small venues to put on live music. SOS and PM magazines ask all forum members to go sign up to
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/livemusicevents/


The petition already has over 10,000 signatories, and includes the signatures of Lord Clement-Jones, Fabian Hamilton MP, Chris Huhne MP, Jenny Willott MP, Don Foster MP and Feargal Sharkey. We do however need many more to make the Government aware of the strength of feeling among musicians and music lovers that the Licensing Act 2003 is damaging small scale music events.

The petition reads:
"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to stop criminalising live music with the Licensing Act, and to support amendments backed by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, and the music industry, which would exempt most small-scale performances in schools, hospitals, restaurants and licensed premises."

Under the Licensing Act, a performance by one musician in a bar, restaurant, school or hospital not licensed for live music could lead to a criminal prosecution of those organising the event. Even a piano may count as a licensible 'entertainment facility'. By contrast, amplified big screen broadcast entertainment is exempt.

The government says the Act is necessary to control noise nuisance, crime, disorder and public safety, even though other laws already deal with those risks. Musicians warned the Act would harm small events. About 50% of bars and 75% of restaurants have no live music permission. Obtaining permission for the mildest live music remains costly and time-consuming. In May, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee recommended exemptions for venues up to 200 capacity and for unamplified performance by one or two musicians.

The government said no.

But those exemptions would restore some fairness in the regulation of live music and encourage grassroots venues, which would benefit current and future musicians.

This is a worthy cause, so please register your voice on the Government site. The UK Election is still months away, and there is no guarantee that any incoming new administration will prioritise this important legislation without your protest vote indicating to the mandarins and policy-makers that sense needs to prevail.

cheers,
Ian Gilby

The MIA can be contacted via its web site: www.mia.org.uk

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Sheriton



Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 1555
Loc: Leicester, UK
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #778860 - 14/10/09 08:56 AM
I'm slightly confused by this - the premises licence that all bars, restaurants etc. have can cover the provision of regulated entertainment (live music amongst other things). It used to be the case that a separate public entertainments licence was required on top of the liquor licence but that's no longer the case as it's all bundled in to the one premises licence.

Schools, hospital and similar premises however, I agree we have a problem there. They can submit up to 12 Temporary event notices per year which will cover entertainment and supply of alcohol for specific events but it's still not an ideal situation.

--------------------
There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
grab



Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2912
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #778871 - 14/10/09 09:31 AM
Quote:

Obtaining permission for the mildest live music remains costly and time-consuming.




Not for bars and restaurants - it's literally a case of filling in the relevant boxes on your license to sell alcohol, and if you've already got a license, paying the admin fee to get music added. Any bar/restaurant owner who filled in these boxes when the Licensing Act first came around got this for free, and anyone applying for a new license for premises could also roll this into their admin for no extra charge. You may then have problems if your neighbours object, or if your venue isn't up to fire regs. But if your venue isn't adequately sound-insulated, or if your punters are thugs, or if your venue is a fire-trap, this isn't exactly unreasonable, is it?

It's also the landlord's choice not to license their pub or restaurant for music. Most restaurants will *never* put on live music because live music and a quiet dining experience are not compatible. Nor will a significant number of pubs due to lack of space in the pub or simply because it's not what the landlord wants. Ian Gilby's claim that all these pubs and restaurants aren't licensed for music because of cost and red tape is, to be polite, economical with the truth.

The biggest problem remains for places which aren't licensed premises but still want to put on music. This is definitely a balls-up, and something which needs sorting. The Licensing Act was designed for the kind of places where the licensing fee is a reasonable cost of doing business, and where places were already paying a licensing fee. Your average youth club or whatever could certainly get themselves a license to put on music, in the same way as any other place, but that fee is a significant chunk of money for most volunteer-run clubs. A significantly-reduced fee (or maybe no fee) for voluntary organisations and schools, possibly with a maximum limit on venue size to remove a potential loophole for volunteer-run festivals, would be a good way forward. If Fergal Sharkey wants to put up a petition for that, I'm in.

That exemption in their petition is totally mad though. In the days of the old Two-In-A-Bar legislation, folk clubs were shut down for having too many people playing at once, and musicians rightly complained bitterly about it. And now they're presenting a Two-In-A-Bar exemption as the best thing since sliced bread? They must be bl**dy stupid.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Matt Houghton
SOS Reviews Editor


Joined: 08/08/07
Posts: 596
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: grab]
      #778895 - 14/10/09 11:08 AM
A Downing St petition will probably get nowhere. They rarely do... and they certainly don't go anywhere in a hurry. If the present administration is to do anything, it needs raising in PMQs or Culture, Media & Sport questions, where the PM or Secretary Of State can be embarrassed into making a promise.

But even if that were done, I suspect there's little chance that the Government will add such a measure to a packed legislative programme: the election is *likely* to be 4 June; Election purder period of 6 weeks shrinks the available window to half way through April... 6 months from now. I don't rate the chances

I wonder if they're also petitioning the [I assume Tory] incoming administration. I'm sure this is exactly the red-tape-cutting, encourage-small-businesses-in-the-recession sort of issue that the Tories will be looking to highlight, apply pressure on and make political promises about. Particularly if they can quote a recommendation of a House Of Commons Select Committee... Even if they don't get in, the profile raising would be worth it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10749
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #778923 - 14/10/09 12:40 PM
This sounds like a bunch of moaning old karaoke singers or dodgy duos who have lost their livelihood because all the bars that put on live music want real bands. I would hate to go back to the old days. I can understand the problem with non licensed premises but is this really significant?

I've seen the licensing form and, as has already been said, there is absolutely no reason for a landlord not to fill in the live music section - it is really only another 5 minutes work.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
grab



Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2912
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: James Perrett]
      #778999 - 14/10/09 04:49 PM
I think it's significant if event organisers want to follow the rules to the letter. Most non-licensed events simply don't bother trying to follow the rules, and never have done. Your average panto will have plastic glasses of cheap wine available in the interval, but I've never heard of a panto organiser getting an alcohol license for that. A bit "don't ask, don't tell" really. Still and all, it'd be good to get this sorted out, instead of small events operating in some kind of illicit-but-tolerated twilight zone.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave Gate
active member


Joined: 02/02/04
Posts: 1353
Loc: M6/M61/M60/M62/M65
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #939274 - 07/09/11 06:56 PM
Looks like you might get your wish

But I don't see where the £1600 per annum figure comes from, given that the Entertainments License is free; unless they're planning on scrapping the PRS/PPL licensing for smaller venues.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1896
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #939293 - 07/09/11 08:33 PM
Quote Forum Admin:

The Music Industries Association recently wrote to its members urging us to bring the following absurdity to a wider audience, to see if people power can help get things changed.

A web site has been set up to petition the Government to allow licensing concessions for small venues to put on live music. SOS and PM magazines ask all forum members to go sign up to
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/livemusicevents/


The petition already has over 10,000 signatories, and includes the signatures of Lord Clement-Jones, Fabian Hamilton MP, Chris Huhne MP, Jenny Willott MP, Don Foster MP and Feargal Sharkey. We do however need many more to make the Government aware of the strength of feeling among musicians and music lovers that the Licensing Act 2003 is damaging small scale music events.

The petition reads:
"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to stop criminalising live music with the Licensing Act, and to support amendments backed by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, and the music industry, which would exempt most small-scale performances in schools, hospitals, restaurants and licensed premises."

Under the Licensing Act, a performance by one musician in a bar, restaurant, school or hospital not licensed for live music could lead to a criminal prosecution of those organising the event. Even a piano may count as a licensible 'entertainment facility'. By contrast, amplified big screen broadcast entertainment is exempt.

The government says the Act is necessary to control noise nuisance, crime, disorder and public safety, even though other laws already deal with those risks. Musicians warned the Act would harm small events. About 50% of bars and 75% of restaurants have no live music permission. Obtaining permission for the mildest live music remains costly and time-consuming. In May, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee recommended exemptions for venues up to 200 capacity and for unamplified performance by one or two musicians.

The government said no.

But those exemptions would restore some fairness in the regulation of live music and encourage grassroots venues, which would benefit current and future musicians.

This is a worthy cause, so please register your voice on the Government site. The UK Election is still months away, and there is no guarantee that any incoming new administration will prioritise this important legislation without your protest vote indicating to the mandarins and policy-makers that sense needs to prevail.

cheers,
Ian Gilby

The MIA can be contacted via its web site: www.mia.org.uk




Can't find it!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave Gate
active member


Joined: 02/02/04
Posts: 1353
Loc: M6/M61/M60/M62/M65
Re: Petitioning No.10 for Live Music concessions new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #939379 - 08/09/11 07:12 AM
Quote:

However, the ministerial proposals are understood to go further than that. Large venues with a capacity of more than 5,000 would continue to be subject to premises licensing as before, but small venues would save on average £1,600 a year and be freed of the requirement to register with the council.




Second paragraph from the end of the article that I linked to.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
0 registered and 14 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, Paul White, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 27452
Calendar Event: 14/10/09

September 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for September 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media