Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
#779262 - 15/10/09 02:06 PM
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Hi guys, im new posting at this forum so i hope you help me anyways.
Im
Portuguese and im constructing a studio at a backyard house, all the walls and ceiling
inside are well acoustic treated i just need that someone help me with a tip for the kind
of room sound control kit should i buy to putt over the walls and ceiling at the
mixing/mastering room (dar red area in the studio design image)
i saw 2 interesting
options at thomman ill putt here the 2 links and under ill putt the image of my studio
design (the measures are in centimeters)
i hope someone can help me =)
thank you very much
2 sound kit options:
1- http://www.thomann.de/pt/auralex_acoustics_roominators_d108l_dst_charcoal.
htm
2- http://www.thomann.de/pt/primacoustic_broadway_london_12a_kit_beige.htm
my studio design:
Edited by Xizini (15/10/09 02:16 PM)
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779275 - 15/10/09 03:38 PM
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anyone? please? =)
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Hugh Robjohns
SOS Technical Editor
Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 18383
Loc: Worcestershire
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779286 - 15/10/09 04:18 PM
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Either kit will provide sufficient materials to treat the mirror points and make a small
stab at dealing with the bass modes. But you'll probably need to do further work on the
bass modes in addition.
I'm concerned with the corner booth -- is that supposed
to be a voice booth? It's awfully small and boxy.
hugh
--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Hugh Robjohns]
#779291 - 15/10/09 04:27 PM
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thank you very much for your tip =)
yes its a vocal booth with no window and
with 120x110 meters...its small but i was studying in a well known portuguese university
and i saw smaller booths with a very bad isolation and it worked well (ive droped out from
that university....bad teachers fault =/)
i guess ill choose the london kit
to the control room....but what is the problem with a small voice booth? i want a dry no
bouncy voice quality, and with a good foam i guess it will be ok, don you think?
thanks again for answering =)
ps: dont worry with the corner booth i
will keep the door open to make the wall continues and the door will have a bass
strap.....ive thought on all...but now you are making me worry about the booth hehee
Edited by Xizini (15/10/09 04:33 PM)
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 16387
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779295 - 15/10/09 04:39 PM
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Welcome to the SOS Forums Xizini! 
I'm afraid you're likely to have stereo imaging problems with an L-shaped room like that
- symmetry is important, particularly at the front end (which you've got) but your back
end will have very lop-sided reflections.
I also suspect neither of those two
acoustic kits will be sufficient to deal with your low frequency issues, since you need
rally big acoustic foam bass traps to be as effective as DIY rockwool ones.
Martin
EDIT - I see Hugh agrees with me about the low frequency room
modes 
-------------------- YewTreeMagic
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Weasel9992
Joined: 13/05/08
Posts: 693
Loc: Savannah, GA
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779297 - 15/10/09 04:42 PM
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Quote Xizini:
i guess ill choose
the london kit to the control room....
That's what Hugh is saying...it'll help some, especially up
higher, but it's not going to do much to solve the low end issues in a room like that,
which are going to be the biggest problems BY FAR. You'd be better off building some
60x120x10cm (or 15cm) panels made from rigid fiberglass or mineral wool. The density of
either should be 48kg/m3 to 60kg/m3...Owens Corning 703 or Roxul are very commonly used.
I don't know how available that stuff is where you are though.
Quote Xizini:
...but what is
the problem with a small voice booth? i want a dry no bouncy voice quality, and with a
good foam i guess it will be ok, don you think?
A tiny space like that will not sound tight and dry...it'll sound
muddy and boxy, and foam products will only improve it marginally if they don't make it
worse by drying up all the high end and leaving everything else out of control.
Frank
--------------------
Frank Oesterheld - GIK Acoustics
www.GIKAcoustics.com
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Martin Walker]
#779299 - 15/10/09 04:46 PM
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thanks martin =)
the london kt got big 5 centimeters bass trap pieces i guess
if i cover the front corners with bass traps and 2 more in the center and the rest for the
side walls i guess it will be ok, at my back i was thinking on a thick curtain along the
back wall....
what you think?
the control room will have a floating
wood floor with a special acoustic foam under it...
thanks again martin =)
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779301 - 15/10/09 04:52 PM
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thanks frank hehehe
so whats your idea to the voice booth? no foam at all?
i was thinking that the sound would be dry and warm...i was at a 80cm by 120 cm booth
with foam all around and the sound was great...mine will be bigger
any idea to
improve it?
thanks
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Hugh Robjohns
SOS Technical Editor
Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 18383
Loc: Worcestershire
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779309 - 15/10/09 05:33 PM
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Quote Xizini:
the london kt got
big 5 centimeters bass trap pieces
5cm depth won't make an effective bass trap. Go and research the wavelength
ranges of the bottom three octaves (20-40, 40-80, 80-160Hz) and then relate a quarter of
those dimensions to the alleged bass traps... You'll soon see why we're all suggesting
that you'll require considerably deeper traps to have any chance of providing effective
bass control.
I know a lot of foam manufacturers offer what they call 'bass
traps' but very few are worthy of the name.
Quote:
i guess if i cover the front corners with bass
traps and 2 more in the center and the rest for the side walls i guess it will be ok
I doubt it. Bass traps are
most effective when used across the tri-corners (where the two walls neet the celing) and
along any other corner -- such as wall-wall or wall-ceiling. Placing them in the middle of
a wall isn't usually as much help.
The problem with the voice booth is that
it is virtually square, so the bass modes will align at similar frequencies to give very
pronounced peaks and dips in the response, and the dimensions are so small such those bass
anomalies will actually start at a relatively high frequency, making the room sound boomy
and boxy.
Adding foam to the walls will soak up the HF and mid range
frequencies, but do nothing for the lower mid and bass, making the room sound even more
boxy and boomy. There are some professional compact voice booths around, but the good ones
have very clever (and expensive) bass trapping built in to the structure of the walls. it
might not be visible, but it is essential if you want to maintain a balanced sound.
If it was my room, I'd take that DIY booth out, which would allow a more
symmetrical arrangement of the equipment and listening position, while leaving space to
set up a vocal recording area in one corner of the open room.
With a decent
amount of trapping behind the vocalist singing out into the room, broad band absorbers
onthe walls and perhaps something like a sE Reflexion filter in front of the mic, you
should be able to get very usable, dry, clean recordings that sound open and airy rather
than dull and boxy.
Okay, so it means monitoring each take on headphones,
and perhaps a little experimentation recording and playing back to optimise a set up
initially, but I think the sound quality benefits would outweigh the practical
inconvenience.
hugh
--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Hugh Robjohns]
#779311 - 15/10/09 05:47 PM
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hmmmm sweeet =D
but i cant take the booth out......usually what i saw in small
booths was "if the recorded voice cant reach enough HF we use to gain them digitally" and
by what you were saying i guess its the only solution right?
really thanks =)
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 16387
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Hugh Robjohns]
#779476 - 16/10/09 01:24 PM
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Quote Hugh Robjohns:
Bass traps
are most effective when used across the tri-corners (where the two walls neet the celing)
and along any other corner -- such as wall-wall or wall-ceiling. Placing them in the
middle of a wall isn't usually as much help.
Agreed, but once you've got traps in the corners then the middle
of the front and back walls are nevertheless good places to deal with remaining width mode
issues.
I cured one 0,2,0 mode problem this way in my own small studio very
effectively by dropping a big trap down on the floor behind my desk between the
loudspeakers and slightly away from the front wall.
Martin
--------------------
YewTreeMagic
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#779773 - 17/10/09 03:27 PM
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what you mean by trap? ill buy this kit  ill follow Hugh tip. =)
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 16387
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#780225 - 19/10/09 03:57 PM
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All seven of those black objects in that illustration are traps - basically anything that
absorbs incoming audio, thus trapping it within its bulk. Martin
-------------------- YewTreeMagic
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Weasel9992
Joined: 13/05/08
Posts: 693
Loc: Savannah, GA
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Martin Walker]
#780256 - 19/10/09 04:59 PM
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Quote Martin Walker:
All seven of
those black objects in that illustration are traps - basically anything that absorbs
incoming audio, thus trapping it within its bulk.
Yep...the only qualifier we add is "low frequency" or "high
frequency".
Frank
--------------------
Frank Oesterheld - GIK Acoustics
www.GIKAcoustics.com
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Xizini
Joined: 14/10/09
Posts: 43
Loc: oporto, portugal
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Weasel9992]
#781501 - 23/10/09 06:47 PM
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thanks mates =D
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 16387
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Re: STUDIO ROOM SOUND CONTROL KIT
[Re: Xizini]
#781526 - 23/10/09 09:50 PM
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Our pleasure I'm sure  Martin
-------------------- YewTreeMagic
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