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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
what i need new
      #785129 - 06/11/09 01:52 AM
hello i have started having out door bush party's got no idea were to start on sound gear got 2 amps bunch of speakers ppl have been telling me about things like crossovers and compressors ect what do i really need to get they are big party's and we are playing all types of techno


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DMAudio



Joined: 05/11/09
Posts: 42
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #785157 - 06/11/09 09:35 AM
Well its hard to tell you exactly what you need without a more accurate idea of what you already have. For example, are the speakers all unpowered (passive)? How many speakers are we talking about?

Generally, for a DJ style party you'll have at very least a small mixer feeding into an EQ, then crossover, which will split the frequencies between your low, mids and highs. The outs from the crossover connect to your amps...one for lows, one for mid-tops, and from there it really depends on the rest of your gear.

You could be using compressors on the DJs vocal, as they like shouting at times, and some kind of limiter to prevent them redlining all your gear til the cones fire out the cabs like a 16th century cannon.

Hope that helps a bit.

DM


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: DMAudio]
      #785239 - 06/11/09 01:34 PM
well atm i have a 1500wa and a 2000wa amp with a cheap crossover that dont seem to help much with 2x 18inch-1000wa 2x 15inch-800wa and 2x 12inch-600wa subs and 4x 15inch 2way PA-600wa yet to find what i am looking for in the high end any idea on that would be a help to and a mate has the decks and mixer but would be looking to get my own at some point

what would a good way to wire all that + more amps to run it still looking for what i wont at the price i got on amps


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Sheriton



Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 1555
Loc: Leicester, UK
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #785259 - 06/11/09 02:26 PM
Are you looking for volume or quality?
Piling up lots of random speakers will give you volume, but not quality. To get quality, you'd need to look at designing the system as a whole, rather than adding on more little bits without considering the bigger picture in detail.

You've got 18", 15" and 12" subs. Each of these will produce sound optimally in one particular frequency range; that range will be different for each speaker. Hooking them all up to the same amp driven by the same signal will just produce a mess.

This is where the crossover comes in - you'd likely want a four or five way crossover if you really wanted to use all those speakers properly. Probably feeding the very lowest frequencies to the 18s via one amp, a slightly higher band to the 15s via another amp, a higher band again to the 12s via another amp, and the mid / highs via one or two more amps to the top speakers.

Bear in mind that all other things being equal, doubling the number of speakers producing the same signal will only give you a theoretical 3dB increase in volume - hardly worth it.

Also remember that the number of watts of electrical power that a speaker can tolerate before going up in smoke has nothing to do with the sound volume it can produce. Cheap speakers are often very inefficient and will produce a woefully small amount of noise for a given input power. I could sell you a 2000W heater in a box and call it a 2000W speaker (or even an 8000W pmpo speaker) - it would happily handle 2000W all night long but wouldn't make much noise...

--------------------
There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: Sheriton]
      #785406 - 07/11/09 12:12 AM
i am not running them all out 1 amp just got new speakers and are yet to get amps for them all my speakers are jbl a mates said its the way to go anyway EQ and crossover what are some good brands/ models to look into

and the plan what to test each off the speakers to see what range it putts out best still got no real idea what to do with my mid and high range there are so many tweeters out there dont no were to start

and with the type of music i am playing need real good sound quality and loud because of the area it is on like 50acers in the forest

Edited by WTA (07/11/09 12:35 AM)


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #785425 - 07/11/09 07:57 AM
read above first

so + getting more amps and mid and high range speakers i need a mixer that runs into a EQ then into the crossover goiing out to all the amps and that will give me the best sound that i can get?

i have had had a hard time working out mid range speakers i no all about the low and high but mid i just dont no were to start what type of speakers do i need for it ?


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Sheriton



Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 1555
Loc: Leicester, UK
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #785577 - 08/11/09 01:02 AM
Whilst it's sometimes possible to mix & match models from different ranges and even different manufacturers, it's generally easier to stick to cabs from the same family. They'll have the same sound and be designed to work well together.
JBL make a huge range of cabs from the very budget (e.g. JRX) to the very good (e.g Vertec). Which of their ranges are your subs from, and have you considered / already discounted the mid/highs from that same range?

--------------------
There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need [Re: WTA]
      #785586 - 08/11/09 02:49 AM
jrx dont got the cash atm to go all outin the jrx what would be the best mid range


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Sheriton



Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 1555
Loc: Leicester, UK
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #785657 - 08/11/09 05:02 PM
The JRX112 would be the best choice out of that range. Pretty much the only choice actually. No point going for anything with 15" drivers as you'll tend to lose some vocal clarity that 12"s are better at producing and your subs will handle the low end that 15" are more useful for in any case.

It's worth bearing in mind however that this particular range of speakers isn't going to give you earth shattering volume or quality. It's aimed very much at the lower end of the market and is built to a budget. You'd be looking to spend several tens of thousands of pounds to get a system that would go really loud and sound really good outdoors. It's amazing how much quieter speakers sound outside when there are no walls to bounce the sound back at you. I suspect any JRX speaker will struggle a bit when faced with techno. Funktion One would be a much better bet but you'd want to sell several kidneys before looking at their prices!

--------------------
There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #786092 - 09/11/09 09:19 PM
the jrx is just the start yes cash is the prob my plan is to bild the system up over time as the party's go more gear will come now about a good eq and crossover were should i start looking


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StuartBallingall



Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 320
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #786214 - 10/11/09 08:40 AM
In my experience BSS and Klark Technic make 'Good' graphic eqs

DBX, Yamaha and peavey are 'ok'

crossover wise i'm not too sure. i have a dbx driverack which has crossover, compression, limiting and eq built in. i still use a graphic eq tho as the drive racks one is a little fiddly

--------------------
Ready Eddie?
Bingo Gringo!


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Sheriton



Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 1555
Loc: Leicester, UK
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #786229 - 10/11/09 09:43 AM
On the crossover front, Behringer's DCX2496 can't be beaten for the price. It's one of about two products that they make that are actually rather good and see significant use in the field.

--------------------
There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #787236 - 14/11/09 08:13 AM
ok i had been looking at the Behringer's DCX2496 think i mite go get that just for the price but lots of places had a big prob with Behringer so this is a good one you say the other one i had been looking at is the xta DP426 much more in price would i be getting any more out of it

and i still got no idea about eq
this band stuff whats it mean. for what i am doing what would a good one be


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StuartBallingall



Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 320
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #787279 - 14/11/09 01:46 PM
ok, bands mean different frequencies on a graphic eq.

At its simplest, a 2 band eq is just bass and treble.

a three band will have bass mid and treble......

Generally with graphic eqs you will have a minimum of 15 bands (15 faders set at fixed frequencies)

Which means the whole frequency range is split into 15 bands from 20/30hz up to 16/20khz. (so 5 bands for your bass, 5 for the mids and 5 for the highs)

better graphic eq's have 31 bands, with twice as many bands, each band occupies a smaller range, which gives you more precise control over your signal.

I dont know the xta x-over. but you'll find that a lot with behringer. people turn their noses up at it because they're not the best company in the world. However, they do make work horse like bits of kit, not flashy but gets the job done, if your amps and speakers are not top notch i dont know if you'll hear much difference between behringer and others.

That XTA thing is slightly more than a x-over. it has graphic eq and compressors/limiters built in. that would be why its a lot more expensive. personally i'd still have a separate graphic eq as setting them up on those little lcd display is a PITA

--------------------
Ready Eddie?
Bingo Gringo!


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StuartBallingall



Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 320
Re: what i need new [Re: StuartBallingall]
      #787281 - 14/11/09 01:48 PM
This may be worth a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRKzWFmZyE

--------------------
Ready Eddie?
Bingo Gringo!


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WTA



Joined: 06/11/09
Posts: 9
Re: what i need new [Re: WTA]
      #787424 - 15/11/09 02:49 AM
ok so i hav my mixer running into the crossover / graphic EQ out into the amps and that should do it

going to get the DBX 131 Single Channel 31-Band Graphic Equalizer anyone got a better one to go for round that price

and the Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 Dynamic Processor

and then i just need to get the cash for the better speakers


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