Hi Everyone

My G4 (433Mhz/Logic4.7/Audiophile s'card) is on it's last legs.

I want to go the whole hog with a dual G5 1.8/Logic Pro7/MOTU 828 NOW!!

My only worry regards stability.
I never had a days grief from my old OS 9 G4, but a colleague is strongly recommending holding off until the "problems" are ironed out.

He says a new product (G5 based??) is being launched in July-ish and to wait.

Anyone know what he's talking about problem wise. I am very aware of the argument that the day after you buy your computer/car whatever a new one comes out to better it and that you sometimes have to just do it, but is the G5 still a bit unreliable??


Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Cheers

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Logic 7 still needs some bugs sorting, but is ok!
G5's rock! MOTU interfaces are some of the best, I'm using a 896 MK1 and it does the job!
If you are worried about stability then use version 6 of Logic until Logic 7.1 is released.

Thanks mate, do you know where can I get a copy of Logic 6??!

I'm reading about Logic 7 at the moment on this forum so I guess it's a common problem...

Obviously if you buy the software at the same time you get a much better deal. Would 7.1 be a free upgrade??

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

hi, could i ask what soundcard you're using for yer ole mac?

thanks

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tiny tunes by implosion quintet

sure, it's an M-Audio audiophile 2496

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

I'd strongly recommend trying to get hold of v6 .. it's rock solid and will be smoking on a G5.

Logic more than any other DAW really makes the most out of the G5's capabilities.

I've mentioned this on this forum recently, but I saw a local ad here in Boston for v6 for $280, a great deal. And you can ugrade to v7 when it's matured a bit.

One other thing worth mentioning is that the G5 range is due a bit of an upgrade. If you wait till Spring you should see new models which means you'll likely get more MHz for your money.

- Mark

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent."

Just curious if your friend is actually using Logic 7 and is having problems first hand ?

I've had no problems from 7.00 or 7.01 and its been very stable. More stable than 6.4.3

Many stability issues are being caused by cheap RAM, bad power conditioning, audio drivers and 3rd party plugins.

There are bugs in 7, but you will find many of them are the same bugs you currently work with in v4

If you are unsure buy the complete system from a reputable hi-tech retailer who will configure and support it.

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"Computer games dont affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running round in dark rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music"

No he's not using it first hand which is why I'm trawling the forums...

If it's just some minor niggles then what the hell that happens, but if it's a totally unreliable set-up then I wanna know

Thanks guys so far, it's a £2-3 grand splash so, I want to know if it works well!!

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

From reading the forums, it seems that Logic is trying to monopolise the plug-ins to the point where they have a version of all the old favourites.

Is this true? I hear VST is now AU??!

Sorry if I'm being slow on the uptake, but I try to avoid reading too much on gear after I've made a big purchase so I can actually get on with some music

Last time I looked it was all about Native Instruments and Auto-tune WTF!!??

What do you guys use for pitch correction?

Thanks again, you're being a big help

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

I think there's a pitch correction plug built into Logic7, along with other new features - they'll all be listed on

http://www.apple.com/logic/neweffects.html

I'm very interested in Logic7 too, but I'm trying to hold off in the hope that 7.1 will be not too far away. Although I understand some users have a very fluid set up, I can't risk unstability in my next upgrade. Logic6.x does sound tempting, though...

Take a look over at

http://www.osxaudio.com/

for OSX & Logic7 related topics...

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"There's only 45 degrees between the Hitler and the Zombie" - me, Saturday night, in front of the speakers

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who will configure and support it.

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There's nothing any dealer can do to fix a recognised bug, and if that bug stops your workflow then you're stuck - of course, if it just a problem you have transitioning to the new version they will, I'm sure, do whatever they can to help

But be aware that some people who've had severe problems with L7Pro have been left without any support from dealers as they claim 'its nothing to do with us'...

If the question is "should I upgrade my home/project system to a more powerful set up where a POSSIBLE lack of stability isn't critical?" then the answer for me would be "yes" and I'd do it.

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"There's only 45 degrees between the Hitler and the Zombie" - me, Saturday night, in front of the speakers

thanks markoos.

I know that Logic has pitch correction, but I've heard it's pretty basic.

Do you guys ALL use it or is there an auto-tune alternative?

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Hi Marky,

Thanks for your reply

Would you have a link to that Logic6 deal or was it in a local shop?

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Cheers mate, any chance for a link?

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

"Is it a bad time to go G5/Logic Pro7??"

Yes.


I'm in the market for a new Mac - and I'm holding off a G5, because of these oddities: 1) Slow disks 2) Dubious Firewire 3) Having to delve, and switch the processer to Fast!

I'm holding off Logic. Bugs.

So I'm getting an iBook, Non-Apple RAM, and a Mackie 1640/Firewire, and I'll use the bundled sequencer.

G

Crikey, my brains frazzled..

This happened last time with me dithering about PC/Mac & Logic/Cubase

In 2001 I got the Mac and never looked back. Now I'm worried that Logic is going to end up as a "home" user novelty experiment.

Would Logic 4.7 work ok on a G5??

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

I'm afraid Logic 4.7 won't run on a G5, as G5s don't run OS9. You need at least Logic 5 to run under OSX.

since i updated to 7.1 (and upadted rmx to 1.2) it's been loads more stable; not one crash since.

Thanks chaps, I had a feeling it might not work, mmm....

So from what I can gather so far: Logic 7.1 seems to be more stable than Logic 7....

G5: Some good and some bad reports, I get the feeling that a major upgrade seems to be coming in the summer, but that leaves me in limbo land for 6 months...

MOTU/Amt8 seems to be a goer.

Can anyone tell me if updates are free within the Logic number (ie Logic 6.1-6.2, Logic 7.1-7.2 etc)

Has anyone here changed to another sequencer as a result of instability??

I get uneasy when the whole thing is in the hands of one company, as they have you over a barrel...

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Regarding pitch correction - yes Logic 7 now has pitch correction. Its certainly usable, not as fully featured as Autotune, and the biggest omission is the lack of the graphical editing mode. Antares have been promising an AU version for about 18months now, and most people don't expect to see it anytime soon. AFAIK Autotune VST doesn't work with VSTwrapper in Logic 7.

An huge number of problems reported with Logic are due to stability problems with 3rd party plugins. There are few users complaining of genuine problems running Logic 7 or 7.01 in a vanilla setup using built in audio and without 3rd party plugins. I believe the biggest issues at the moment are OMF import, Waveburner and SMPTE Lock/Unlock


I would condider how much of a hard time the bugs in version 4 bother you ?

Have a look at:
http://www.osxaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=141657


Its also more likely that those with problems post all over the web. Those without problems get on with making music. So opinion does look very one sided. The general mood on the Logic User Group mailing list is pretty positive now as most people have been running stable systems having found the plugins/drivers/settings that seem to cause most problems.

Most Logic 'point' upgrades have been free - the exception was 6.4 when it changed from Gold/Platinum to Pro and bundled the plugins. Version upgrades have always been chargeable. Apple have already stated that when Plugin Delay Compensation is added this will be a paid upgrade. I suspect this will come with Logic 8, rather than a point upgrade to 7. Best way to predict what will happen is to look at how Apple deliver updates to Final Cut, DVD Studio etc.

Personally I'm more interested in what 10.4 will bring rather than Logic 7.02 - big improvements to Core Audio and the ability to run multiple audio interfaces.

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"Computer games dont affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running round in dark rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music"

Quote 44deluxe:

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So from what I can gather so far: Logic 7.1 seems to be more stable than Logic 7....
...

Can anyone tell me if updates are free within the Logic number (ie Logic 6.1-6.2, Logic 7.1-7.2 etc)

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Pedantry moment.

The current version is 7.0.1, not 7.1 - there is a big difference. A change from 7.0.0 to 7.0.1 is minor, and only involves bug fixes.

Version numbers are pure hype and marketing. The number (7.1, 7.2) is unimportant. It's the type of upgrade, of which you can think of 3 levels:

Bug fixes
Often a "0.0.1" increment and often free.

Minor functionality enhancements
Think of this as a "0.1" update. This adds functionality but it's minor - maybe improved support for a make of interface, more tracks, etc. More and better of the same is the theme.

Under Emagic, these were often free, but Apple has a more aggresive pricing policy on some of its software, and they've already said that PDC is going to be a paid update, which some might see as falling into this catagory. So we'll wait and see ... and hope ...

Major updates
A "1.0" update. Lots of new features, interfaces, lots of money and sadly, lots of bugs. Apple is not alone in having lots of bugs in a major update, BTW.


As an aside, note that when we talk about MacOS X version 10.3 and 10.4, these are actually major updates as the version numbers mean "MacOS ten version 3" and "MacOS ten version 4" (though most people refer to it as "mac oh ess ex", which is actually wrong, IIRC).


Last ireelevency. Version numbers are decided by marketing types. To be cynical for a moment, I imagine with conversations that go something like:

- What have we added?
- Some bug fixes.
- How much can we charge?
- Oh not a lot - we should have got it right the first time.
- You didn't understand me. The answer to the next question affects your job prospects. How much can we charge?
- Well I did change the font size anbd add a new splash screen. Maybe £50.
- Good. Currently we're at version 1.0. We'll call it version 1.3 and charge £79.99.

Anyway, pedantry moment is over.

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Andrew

Hi Compuphonic

Thanks for the info.

So Auto-tune is old news. What took it's place?

Also, by vanilla do you mean "pure" as in only apple software?

Thanks for the link-great site

re the online whingers: Absolutely, what a bummer for companies to only hear the bad stuff! do I post when I'm happy? Nope! Maybe I'll change my ways: Rode K2 mics are ACE!

Plug in compensation: To ask a dumb question, does this mean my soft synths/fx lag behind the rest of the mix??

Very sorry if this is the most FAQ but hopefully the title of the post will help other people unfamiliar with Logic7.

Thanks again, it's a HUUGE help!

Mark

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Hi Grim Audiere,

Pedantry is good, especially with mind numbing tedium like computers and software.....

I don't know about you guys, but I like to get the new program, swat for a month or two and then completely forget about renewing for as long as possible.

The drawback with this approach is much like my tax return: 11 and a half months of ignorant bliss followed by 2 weeks of receipt hell!!!

Well after all some music ought to get written sometime

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

A big thanks to everyone who helped out here.

You guys have saved me a LOT of grief...

No way am I going to invest £700 on something that MAY work if I spend all day downloading fixes and then buy some new OS. Oh and don't use anyone else's cool plug-ins.

I'm a PRO, I need to rely on my gear to MAKE MONEY.
Apple are a massive business, they want to TAKE MONEY.

I used to think Apple were the good guys, but now I'm sick to the CORE


Anyone switched to dp wanna add their thoughts??

Anyone switched to..... a PC

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Quote 44deluxe:

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So Auto-tune is old news. What took it's place?

Also, by vanilla do you mean "pure" as in only apple software?

Plug in compensation: To ask a dumb question, does this mean my soft synths/fx lag behind the rest of the mix??

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I've been using the pitch correction plugin in Logic 7 for a few months now and find it ok. I appreciate that for some folks the graphical editing in Autotune is a necessity, so depends how you work. I believe Melodyne and Yamaha Pitch Fix are worth investigation. I don't use these, so can't advise on if they run ok in Logic 7.

Vanilla - yes I meant using the plugins/fx build into Logic 7 only.

The lack of Plugin Delay Compensation mainly rears its head when routing through buses with effects. There are ways around it and again depends how you work and what plugins you use. Apple recently promised that they are working on this (no timescale given) and the upgrade will incurr a charge

Although this relates more to Logic 6, worth looking here:
http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/

Hope this helps..

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"Computer games dont affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running round in dark rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music"

Thanks again Compuphonic.

I'm seriously thinking of changing over to DP.

I understand there will be a learning curve, but IMHO it sounds like there is no real urgency within apple to deliver a pro sequencer.

It seems like an experiment and it's obviously not really their CORE(!) business.

I love Logic, I can really fly with the key commands etc, but I don't want all the hassle

If anyone thinks I'm being REALLY stupid, then I'll happily listen, but I've got to be realistic about how likely it is that it will ever get stable.

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

You seem to have convinced yourself that Logic is a no-goer for you at all.Most of the posts in this thread weren't with any specific opinion.

I think if you have a good understanding of Logic 4.x, you'll get a lot out of a used copy of Logic 6, it's solid. LP7 also works for many people (though you tend to hear more from those having problems, such is the nature of forums). Don't rely on heresay for expensive purchases like DAWs. If you have time and energy invested in one sequencer, stick with it unless you are literally stopped in your tracks, or need to support multiple platforms.

Switching from something like Logic to DP doesn't buy you much, especially if you're used to Logic 4.x.

I find craigslist.org a wonderful source of used gear and software, especially in the states. That's where I saw th3 $280 LP6.

- Mark

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent."

I think you switched very quick with your opinion on Logic. If you really like Logic, and since you are working with V4 currently, why not waiting 6 months more... You did the job so far, didn't you? When LogicPro (including 3th party) is more stable and a new G5 range is out this might be a good option. On the other hand, if you truly made up your mind and you want to switch -> Go straight to a PC with f.i. Nuendo or Cubase: stable, great performance, great audio engine and good midi and delay compensation etc.

Roger

I agree. I certainly don't think Logic Pro 7 is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but if you are not planning to use a Powercore or UAD1 the lack of PDC on busses means nothing (as it does to me). You do get an awful lot for the money. DP has until very recently been a bit unstable and inefficient processor-wise (though 4.5 is pretty good) and you'd have to go and buy a few decent softsynths and FX as there is not a lot with DP (hence the lower price I suppose). on my G5 dual 2Gig I can run up some monstrous projects in Logic. 7.01 seems to be more crash-prone for me than 7.0 (something to do with Amplitube or Atmosphere I think), but I have been getting more into the sounds and automation, and it really is a cinch to use. Keep your options open, especially if you can get a cheap Pro 6 copy, as it was probably more stable.

Hi evryone,

It seems my worries came mostly from people using UAD cards.

I was thinking that plug in compensation was more of an issue than it was...

If there is no delay with softsynths etc then I don't have a problem

I suppose I really put the paranoid DP post as a way of trying to coax those people who ARE happy to commit a bit more


Thanks so much for your help, I'll let you know how I get on.

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings

Quote:

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but if you are not planning to use a Powercore or UAD1 the lack of PDC on busses means nothing (as it does to me).

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It seems my worries came mostly from people using UAD cards.

I was thinking that plug in compensation was more of an issue than it was...

If there is no delay with softsynths etc then I don't have a problem

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Lack of full PDC isn't just an issue for DSP card users - whatever the Logic manual says.

If you place non-Logic AU plug-ins (and some Logic ones, such as the Multi-Processor) on a Bus you'll be affected by delay. It'll be more noticable with timing sensitive situations - such as using compressors on drum sub-mixes. If you just use reverb on a bus, the extra delay may not be noticble.

If you want to use third party Virtual instruments in their multi-output versions, you'll need to use Auxes and you'll have the same delay problems as with busses.

Apple have said that full PDC is coming - but we don't know exactly when of course.

Regards

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

I don't think its a bad time. I have a 1st generation Dual 2.0 G5 with 1.5gb cheapo PNY ram. I bought 7pro the day it came out and I've been using it daily with a Motu 828mk2, Native Instruments Komplete & Sampletank.
I hardly ever crash except for when I try to have multiple songs with NI plugs open at the same time. The NI problems seems to be partly solved with the 7.01 logic update though. Sampletank has also crashed me once or twice. The only other quirks I've noticed have been with the way Logic Control works now. I haven't done a proper analysis yet though. My typical session has a couple of instances of NI Battery, NI Kontakt, EVP, EVB3, Space Designer, Delays and less than 10 Audio tracks. I hardly drive any external MIDI gear I just record them live so its hard to determine if the timing is any better or worse than 6.4.

Just for those of you who helped out, here is an UPDATE:

I decided to go for it as I was sick of thinking about it...

I ended up getting a Dual 1.8 with 1GB ram and another 160Gb hard drive for audio.
Logic 7, MOTU 828 MkII and BATTERY2.

Well so far so good!


I was amazed how quickly the MOTU integrated, WOW what a cool bit of gear.

Sounds great and a piece of proverbial to use.

The Logic instruments seem pretty good so far and I'm AMAZED at how many EXS24 instruments come with it

One thing though, is Battery a resource hungry plugin??

I had 4 instances running with some audio tracks etc and the computer ran out of processing power- something I wasn't expecting.

Anyway thanks again, hopefully this thread will be of use to people going through the same uncertainty.

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My music: www.myspace.com/deluxerecordings