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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio?
      #818437 - 12/03/10 11:14 AM
Hi all. I wonder if anyone running Cubase 5.1 might care to try a quick experiment? I recorded middle C from a Yamaha Clavinova piano into Cubase 5, opened the recording in Sample Editor, opened Variaudio - and the C note was identified as being C3. I then recorded middle C on a guitar (real mid C - not written Mid C) - C3. I then sang the note - C3. I then set-up the Cubase signal generator to produce a sine wave at 261Hz - C3. Interestingly the Cubase Multiscope of the sine wave showed much more signal at double and quarter frequencies which I would not have expected from a Sine Wave? The Cubase 5 manual states that Cubase correctly sees C=261Hz as C4. I'm now wondering if there is a Cubase bug or if my piano, guitar, voice and signal generator are such wonderfully (sub)harmonically rich sources that the signal is ambiguous? Other than this the Variaudio works wonderfully by the way.

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9174
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818447 - 12/03/10 11:40 AM
Quote Andi:

or if my piano, guitar, voice and signal generator are such wonderfully (sub)harmonically rich sources that the signal is ambiguous?



That would be my guess.

I’m finding VariAudio a bit of a hit and miss affair. I’ve only used it on vocals to date. It’s pitch identification isn’t brilliant and I find I’m having to do a lot of work to tidy up the segmentation.

I’m also frequently seeing single notes that are split into 8 or more tiny, high-pitched segments, accompanied by rapid clicks at the segment transitions, where no amount of gluing or tidying will remove the clicks. So far my only recourse has been to delete the segments and leave the note un-tuned - far from ideal.

As it is I’ll persevere so far, for the sake of the integration it offers, but VariAudio is currently no Melodyne.

Maybe V5.2, or Cubase 6 will improve matters, but for now, where possible I’ll just get the vocalist to record another take!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818535 - 12/03/10 05:24 PM
I agree that it's probably the harmonics in the sources, or possibly the recording environment. Try generating a sine wave ITB with a soft synth and see what it does with that.

In general it is great although the segmentation doesn't always deliver smooth results. It's only gone nuts on me once, producing a spacy flanged and glitched effect. It sounded cool and totally unique so I used it.


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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: steve355]
      #818664 - 13/03/10 05:46 PM
Hi

I generated the sine wave ITB using the Cubase signal generator - I'll give it a go with a synth for interest. Granting that segments do need to be tidied I find that it works great - my 9 year old daughter has wonderful pitch and I can totally destroy her singing almost effortlessly in mere moments.

A.

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818684 - 13/03/10 08:08 PM
Well Well. I recorded a couple of bars of C4 from HalionOne bounced to audio. VariAudio recognises it as C4, but it plays as C5. I also recorded the A4 signal from my Seiko metronome - detected as C3. At least it's consistent but it's a bit odd. Just off to try it in C5 64 bit just in case I've managed to turn-on the "transpose all by 1 octave" setting without noticing.

Sinisterer and sinisterer.

A.

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818685 - 13/03/10 08:12 PM
Same in Cubase 5 64 Bit.

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818692 - 13/03/10 09:00 PM
Well, I've taken a handful of preventative anti-depressants and wandered over to the Steinberg C5 Forum - apparently Steinberg treats C3 as being Middle C - even though the Cubase 5 manual states on P252 that C4 is at 261.63 Hz which seems to be pretty middle C ish to me. Ah well, odd bizarre but not broken.

A.

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: Andi]
      #818742 - 14/03/10 09:05 AM
Sorry, I didnt read your original post carefully enough before posting above.

Interesting result, thanks for posting this. I wonder why. Wasn't the variaudio technology imported from Japan, from Yamaha, or something? I seem to remember reading that.


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Andi



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 1194
Loc: Berkshire, UK
Re: Wrong octave in Cubase 5 Variaudio? new [Re: steve355]
      #819688 - 18/03/10 10:12 AM
....and Yamaha treats Mid C as being C3. That said, there is as much discussion and argument on muso threads about how to define octaves as on music tech threads: and I've just had the pleasure of explaining to my 9 year old why middle C on his guitar (as written) isn't the same as on the piano. I think we should abandon this old-fashioned stuff and just use MIDI note numbers and tab

Cubase manual still scores -1 though!

--------------------
Andi, www.thedustbowl.net Mixing, Mastering, Audio Editing at The Dustbowl Audio


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