Hi

I took the advise of many a SOS forum user and went with Music Ventures to produce my bands CD. Initially they were very helpful when creating the quote. But now we have now been waiting over a month for delivery (for only 1000 units) and they have gone to ground. They don't pick up the phone, they don't respond to emails. Just wondering whether anyone else is experiencing the same problems and if so how did oyu get around it?

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Quad Core Mac Pro, Logic Studio 9, MOTU 828MK3, Alesis M1 Active, EZDrummer, IK Guitar Suite (Ampeg, Fender, Amplitube 2, Hendix), iZotope Ozone 3, SE Electronics 2200A

Yes! I am. Just can't get through. Not on the phone, not in email. What's happening? I have an urgent repeat order to place and there's no response. This of course means having to go to another company, sending CD masters and artwork again, waiting for the art work proofs. Not good...

Why did they change name from Media Sourcing Ltd. to Music Ventures ?
My website account has gone as well.

There should be some info on the website and customers should have received emails informing of the name change and disappearing accounts.

But I suppose it doesn't matter to me now, as I need to go with plan B today and produce my stuff with another company.

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

double post

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Edited by himalaya (18/03/10 11:24 AM)

I just googled this :

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:7Tx_E_NvpKIJ:drownedinsound.com/commu nity/boards/music/4176796+"media+sourcing"+sound+on+sound&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&a mp;gl=uk&client=opera

However, it appears that orders can still be placed.

So what's happening ? Media Sourcing has gone bust, then resurfaced as Music Ventures and the story is repeating ?
BE WARNED !

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Edited by himalaya (18/03/10 11:18 AM)

It appears as though the old Ltd co went into liquidation and the management set up a new Ltd company operating from the same premises . A classic double glazing company trick, but by no means illegal.

Been using them Mediasourcing for a while, had no idea about the new company. I put an order with Music Ventures at the end of Nov last year...a few hiccups and slower than before but we got them in the end.

That should have put me off, however we've got an order in with them at the moment. Last got an email on Friday....everything is verrrryyyyy sloooowwwwww. I'm worried meself.

I'm always a little suspicious of a company that buys up domain names very similar to their competitors (as Media Sourcing did in the past).

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Sheeeeeeet!

Is there any way of getting my money back? We have been waiting well over a month and a half for only 1000 CDs and they have all but disappeared. One guy gave me his mobile number but this is helpfully linked to the same answering service that no one picks up on the main number.

I paid by CC so could i get in contact with the card company for a refund?

Pain in the @ss

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Quad Core Mac Pro, Logic Studio 9, MOTU 828MK3, Alesis M1 Active, EZDrummer, IK Guitar Suite (Ampeg, Fender, Amplitube 2, Hendix), iZotope Ozone 3, SE Electronics 2200A

Quote DanB:

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I paid by CC so could i get in contact with the card company for a refund?

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Do so ! That's how you will get your money back.

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Hello,

I have the same problem. We made payment on 01.03.2010 by VISA Debit Card. The proofs were approved on 12.03.2010, since then - silence.

There's nobody to answer the phone there and they do not respond to emails at all. The managing director is out of reach.

I will try to claim a chargeback from my bank, we'll see how this goes.

In other words: avoid Musicventures.com - they are a fraudulent company.

Cheers,

Mac

The drowned in sound thread has been updated in the past day or so with this little nugget which seemsd to clarify what they're doing

Please, any labels reading this, be warned that the wanker behind Media Sourcing Andy Smales is now operating as Media Ventures.

There have been reports of 2 month delivery times on 1000 CDs, blaming printer, then poor quality etc etc. Basically he has no credit anywhere, waits til he gets money in from bands and then pays for previous orders at the cheapest plants he can find (that will still deal with him). It's shocking that the law allows someone to go under twice and then set up again using same website but with slight name change, doing exactly same thing

I ordered on 28/2/10...Mr Smales still replies to my emails, however every time he does its ANOTHER excuse. I've told him to give me my money back, it wont happen but you can but I can but try.

Can I suggest everyone affected Mr Smales and his laudable business practices contact his local trading standards. Lets see if we cant just get him shut down or at least his way of doing business given the oxygen of publicity. I just happen to be seeing my accountant tomorrow, I'll see how I can try and get a CCJ against him.

Or, if anyone lives in Shrewsbury and has a friend called Enormous Derek, we can get our money back that way?

Hi everyone

I've just found this topic after searching for 'Music Ventures' on Google. I have now registered with the forum so that I can tell you about my experience with this company. If you are considering having a CD glass mastered then I suggest you read on and stay away from Music Ventures!

It all started very positively. Me and the guys in my band searched for CD duplication on the web and Music Ventures was one of the first companies on the list. They were very helpful and assisted us in putting our artwork onto templates etc, and they replied to emails very promptly. They charged us £654 for 500 units including an 8-page booklet.

A week or so after paying we hadn't heard back, so we gave them a quick courtesy call - no answer. The website has several different phone numbers all of which either ring off or don't work. Eventually we got in touch with the artwork guy, who promised us that we would hae the CDs by 9th April (we were originally meant to have them by the end of March)...he attributed this to a problem at the pressing plant...an annoying setback, but reasonable...

9th April came and went and we didn't have our CDs. Our emails were ignored and our phone calls were not answered. We were supposed to launch the album at a gig on 15th April but could not do so - all proceeds were going to charity but we couldn't do this as we had no CDs to sell! I would estimate that the charity lost out by around £200-300 because of this...

It gets worse. Having tried many different numbers, we eventually got through to Andrew on the phone. We told him that he could either refund us (we even offered to drive to Shrewsbury to collect the cash) or give us a genuine delivery date. He promised to call us back, but didn't. A few days passed, we rang, again - no answer.

So we emailed Andrew and gave him 7 days' notice to either refund us or we would begin legal procedings. Again, no response.

Yesterday we spoke to him again. He told us he would be able to offer us a refund or a delivery date next week. We told him we wanted the refund. And now...nothing.

We have now filed the papers for legal action against the company.

I would advise everyone to avoid Music Ventures and any other company associated with it. The reason we went with Music Ventures in the first place is because the quote seemed too good to be true - which it obviously is!

I hope this helps!

Cheers, Steve

Oh ****!

I have a CD ready to go to press and was about to use them as they have been good in the past (a couple of years ago).

So - pleas - can anyone recommend a good plant to get 1,000 CDs done - preferably one that also sorts the artwork.

Many thanks.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

I have just seen a recommendation on the "Drowned in Sound" link that someone recommends Xpress CDs - does anyone here know there or use them? Any good?

Thanks.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote John Willett:

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I have just seen a recommendation on the "Drowned in Sound" link that someone recommends Xpress CDs

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As an addendum - I asked for a quote on-line and got a phone call from them within an hour - and on a Saturday morning!

They will e-mail me the quote on Monday.

They are about £100 more for a 1,000 CDs (fully done with shrink-wrap) than Music Ventures, but the price still seems OK.

Unless anyone knows better?

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

John, I've routinely been using Testa Rossa for over 12 months now...I'm on a session (break ) at the minute so I can't compare the prices....

Quote Aural Reject:

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John, I've routinely been using Testa Rossa for over 12 months now...I'm on a session (break ) at the minute so I can't compare the prices....

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Thanks AR - I'll give them a call on Monday.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Nimbus are a trustworthy company

http://www.wyastone.co.uk/dod/index.html

They record and release Classical music and had one of the original CD pressing plants in the UK, though they are more small scale now on that side.

No idea how good their pricing is

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musics

Quote un_quantized:

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Nimbus are a trustworthy company

http://www.wyastone.co.uk/dod/index.html

No idea how good their pricing is

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Cheers - thanks - I'll ring them all on Monday.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Hi
I'm technical advisor for a school young enterprise company.
We have been waiting for three months for 500 cds from musicventures.
Got an email from their artwork guy assuring me that they are still operating,
but having problems with the production plant.

Quote gaelic:

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Hi
I'm technical advisor for a school young enterprise company.
We have been waiting for three months for 500 cds from musicventures.
Got an email from their artwork guy assuring me that they are still operating, but having problems with the production plant.

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For three months...tis BS, innit. What a nice was for the kids to learn about the world of commerce (i.e. it stinks). Collectively, we need to try and stop this man from taking anyone elses money. There's a difference between someone in genuine financial difficulties and a serial shyster.

Watchdog anyone? The kids angle is a good one to try and get some media interest!

And if you look at the history of Andrew Smales on Companies house records - it is a long line of dissolved companies and liquidations going back 17 years.

The payments to Music Ventures are made to a company called Online Music Ventures Limited. Interestingly - this company was formed 1 month before Media Sourcing Limited was first put into Liquidation. So I suspect the Director (Andrew Smales) knew this was coming and had a new company set up whilst the old company was being wound up. As it was a wind-up via a court order and not via a creditors meeting, the Director would have received plenty of notice.

My only advice to people is to ensure any company you request duplication from does not have any connection with Andrew Smales. This is a reasonable question. If they lie to you - you would then at least have the opportunity to attempt money from the Director himself.

Does anyone have any other limited company names this chap/company has used recently?

got mine today. I'm just glad I've got them, I pretty much feared I'd never see my money or CDs again.

Hopefully, people will google them before ordering and see threads like these

Hello,

Mine arrived today, too. After more than two months !!!

Music Ventures should be avoided at all cost, their total lack of responsiblity towards customers (who have paid their money in advance) is frightening, to say the least...

Cheers,

Mac

with that in mind you do wonder whether he buys a specific 'capacity' at a manufacturing plant, say 10,000 units, he waits until he gets orders that total that much and then, and only then, does he place the order.

They're also in the wrong type of box and have the wrong sort of barcode to go into Universal so thats delayed our release date even more, however, again, I'm just relieved I've got the swines.

Bother - I wish I'd seen this earlier

I placed an order last week (8th June 2010) for 500 units with MusicVentures, even drove down to their premises (basically a summer-house next to a swimming pool) to deliver the masters - a 300-mile round trip for me. I stressed we needed them fulfilled and delivered for 24th June.

Since then, their progress page has been stuck at 'in progress' and nobody's answering emails; phonecalls have simply yielded "I don't know the status, Andy isn't in the office but will call you back". I've been trying to get an update from them but it does sound like there's something fishy going on. Googling around I found this.

Based on the contents of this forum, we've taken a band decision to stay safe and get some ordered from elsewhere (Xpress, on recommendation) and hope either we get the order fulfilled at some point or get a refund.

I'll give it a week before we start talking LBA and small claims

Just to keep an update on this, finally got an email from Andy last Sunday saying he'd try and get me a fulfilment date. Nothing since and they're all AWOL again.

Have to put in a good word here for www.digitaldiscduplication.co.uk. Our bands first ever venture into glass-mastered cd - 500cds, good advice, good price, all delivered in 16 days after initial artwork/master submission. No problems at all.

Launch gig day. No CDs, and the company's gone AWOL again.

With a bit more expense we got a short run from http://www.xpresscds.co.uk/ who have been absolutely wonderful. Confirmation every step of the way, took 5 working days to get them from receipt of master/artwork to delivery on my doorstep (a day earlier than their own target date, too)

So I guess we'll see what happens with Musicventures...

Quote CapnB:

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With a bit more expense we got a short run from http://www.xpresscds.co.uk/ who have been absolutely wonderful.

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Yes, I have heard that XpressCDs are good.

I got my last lot from Downstream whom I found superb - and their prices were pretty close to my old Music Ventures quote, so I was even more happy.

In fact I was just about to place an order with Music Ventures and saw this thread just in time.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote John Willett:

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Quote CapnB:

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With a bit more expense we got a short run from http://www.xpresscds.co.uk/ who have been absolutely wonderful.

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Yes, I have heard that XpressCDs are good.

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Just to throw a spanner in - we ordered 1000 copies of a single with XpressCDs. They delivered boxes and boxes of organic farming DVDs to us instead (with a couple of correct boxes, just enough for the launch gig that afternoon!)

Some hullaballoo followed as they collected the DVD at our specified delivery address, then sent them to our invoice address 200 miles away before having to return to collect them again!

We also used them for a run of 2000 albums in digipacks. No such problems that time, but the digipacks themselves looked and felt rather cheap.

We've used Orbis Digital since, and they've been great. Lovely digipacks too!

Aled

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Bill Withers while Tom Waits, and Stan Getz

Just a few words based on my past life (as a liquidator!). It's actually a bit dangerous to go round using terms like fraud. Companies fail: there are about 300,000 insolvencies a year in the UK. Companies in dying industries - e.g. those in danger of being replaced by the internet - are more likely to fail than others. It does not mean the management are rogues.

There is a legal onus on company directors not to keep accepting cash up front for orders if they know failure is likely, which could result in them being disqualified from acting as a director of another company for a number of years: that's up to the joint decision of the liquidator, the government Insolvency Service and the courts.

Directors can legally acquire the assets of a failing or failed company, provided only that they pay the market price. Often, they are the only bidder. Often, they are best placed to assess the true value of the assets acquired.

The successor company has no obligation to honour the debts of the old one or to carry out orders or make refunds. If you paid cash to the old company and have not received the goods, you have probably lost your money. The new company might in its discretion choose to do something for you e.g. as a goodwill gesture, especially for a longstanding and regular customer, but it does not have to.

If you paid by credit card and if you are a consumer (not a business) you should be able to get a refund from the card issuer. It is far less likely in the case of a debit card - not covered by the Consumer Credit Act - although I have heard of one issuer making refunds in the past.

If you want to deal with the new company, that's your choice. Bear in mind that the purpose of limited liability companies is to allow the promoters of companies to take risks without putting their personal assets down to their last cufflink on the line. And if it goes wrong, they are encouraged to try again. Overall, this is good for society, good for the economy and good for employment. It serves no-one to keep directors of failed companies on benefits for life as some sort of "punishment" for risk-taking.

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Further news (or lack of it):

A month after ordering I sent an email to MusicVentures advising that if the CDs didn't show up in X days time properly fulfilled to order (or a refund in full given), we'd take the matter further. No response, which is a bit tedious.

That said I have two parcels waiting for me at courier depots at the moment - I'm vaguely optimistic one of them is our CDs.

S'pose the next step is to visit Moneyclaim - at least then it'd have to be disclosed to an administrator as a liability

Deadline day! No response...

Just checked Companies House as well:

ONLINE MUSIC VENTURES LIMITED
Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off

Sounds like deja vu for some of you guys

OK, more information.

The company 'ONLINE MUSIC VENTURES LTD' had a proposal to strike off on 6th June 2010. That means in 3 months time unless there is an objection the company will be struck off and (realistically speaking) none of us will get our money back.

Is it just me round here that's still owed CDs or cash by this lot, or is there anyone else? Please feel free to get in touch with me via this forum if so, a bit of team action is called for I think.

Just to bring this to a close...

About a fortnight ago I phoned my bank, explained the situation, and they put me in touch with their card services bit who advised me to do a chargeback. I wasn't expecting things to move so quickly but this morning I checked my account to find a refund for the CDs

We never even heard back from the company and a chargeback was a much easier and less costly route than going for a CCJ.

So it's all done and dusted as far as I'm concerned - I'd advise everyone though to stay as far as you can away from Online Music Ventures (musicventures.com)!

You're not the only one. Music Ventures has let me down too (data sent on 16 June and still nothing, plus very poor communication), and I have today requested a refund. I will let you know if I get anywhere, though I am not terribly hopeful. I paid by cheque, so am not sure how that leaves me ...

Sad, because they were good at the start and I used them several times.

Luckily I spotted this thread just as my latest project came up - although I had got a quote from Music Ventures I put the business elsewhere and won't use MV again after reading this thread.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Similar to everyone. Sent in data around the same time (2nd July) and after poor communication and delays, they assure me the CDs will be with me on Tuesday. I told them if they are not I expect a full refund. So here's to hoping. Never using them again.

It appears they only man the office on Monday and Tuesday.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Ive not heard anything from the company since the beginning of September and have emailed and rung most days to chase them up. Kevin the artwork guy has even said he isn't able to get into contact with them. Does anyone have any other contact details besides that on the website and if not how did those of you who have recieved responses manage to do so? Any help please!

I've gone the credit card company route and asked them to retrieve the money. Again, not heard from them since before September.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Me too, this company appear to be out to rip the unsuspecting punter off. What a pity this is their chosen route. It will not end well for them I fear.

You would have thought it easier for the credit card companies to block all further transactions and save the hassle of persuing them the hard way!!

Music Ventures is a Scam

Some one has created a Facebook page for them by the looks of it.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Music-Ventures-Scam/143711272331723?v=info


Online Music Ventures - Mr Andrew Smales
Occupation: Scumbag money grabber
Star Sign: Sagittarius
Appearances: Watchdog BBC


Old company name: cd sourcing / media sourcing
Liquidated

Link to Companies House Original company liquidated:
Media Sourcing
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f68d6aa60797edf9f7c0b7b941563cd7/company search?disp=1&frfsh=1282918512#result

Link to Current Companies House Notice to strike off in October 2010:
Online Music Ventures Ltd
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f68d6aa60797edf9f7c0b7b941563cd7/company search?disp=1&frfsh=1282918552#result

Link to Google Street View of operating address probably his house:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Link to Google Street View of where the company is registered to in Cardiff Wales,
Looks like some old Grannies house, probably his ma, poor woman.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Picture of Andrew Smales:
http://www.blogger.com/profile/05938065945895442832
http://bp2.blogger.com/_pwI8YabvVfM/R5Or11qmWxI/AAAAAAAAAA4/okidUemG9WQ/S2 20-h/L1020339.JPG
http://www.myspace.com/78931273


Electoral Roll 2002-03, 2005 Director Report
Andrew John Smales
Age: 43 - Shrewsbury, Shropshire, SY5


Addresses:

Name & Registered Office:
ONLINE MUSIC VENTURES LIMITED
11 GARTH OLWG
GWAELOD Y GARTH
CARDIFF
CF15 9HW
Company No. 06842075


Current Operating address in 2010:
musicventures.com
5-6 Vennington, Westbury,
Shrewsbury SY5 9RG. UK.
Tel: (01743) 884567
Fax: (01743) 885123

Possible older address:
01743 884 567
5 6 ACRES
Shrewsbury SY5 9RG

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Basically dont use MusicVentures, they are S**t.

They will Take your money and then you will hear nothing.

Contact your bank to get your money back, give them all the evidence and you will get your money back within 2 days.

Quote Dmudii:

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Music Ventures is a Scam

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Sad really, because when CD-Sourcing started they were excellent - both on price and service.

I had several CDs done with them and had no complaints at all.

However - After reading this thread earlier and all the current problems, I now use someone else.

Scam is probably too strong a word as I don't think AS set out to rip people off. It just looks like a company that has gone through bad times and is struggling.

Having said that, if you can't deliver you should not take the money. That's a no-no.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

I can't believe Music Ventures.

I have had a similar experience with them.

I am STILL waiting for 1000 CD's.

Order placed in July - Artwork finished 01-09-2010 then the artwork designer stopped returning my emails 3 weeks ago.

I have tried to contact andrew smales for 2 months with no luck at all.

Then yesterday I put in a new enquiry from one of my other email addresses and got a reply straight away from Andrew. I have emailed him back but I am not sure what else I can do. DEBIT card transaction!

Any advice?

Chris

doesn't always pay to go for the cheapest option i guess

Quote COhOLiC:

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DEBIT card transaction!

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If it is a Visa debit card then look at the chargeback procedure. There are certain limits but you could well be covered.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote COhOLiC:

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I have tried to contact andrew smales for 2 months with no luck at all.

Then yesterday I put in a new enquiry from one of my other email addresses and got a reply straight away from Andrew. I have emailed him back but I am not sure what else I can do.

---

I would take that particular nugget of information and approach your local Trading Standards office. They are there to help, and generally very good at what they do. But to do their job they need complaints and information.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Hi all, sadly I think they are still operating, or at least accepting money. I was involved in supplying packaged discs to this outfit and have not been paid. If anyone out there needs discs then feel free to contact me and come direct to the manufacturer. I am sorry for any one who has lost money to Music Ventures, CD Sourcing etc. I would be happy to quote for any business as I need to recover what I have lost and also help out any band, artist, record label etc who has lost out.

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creative solutions for all discs and packaging.

I have been pursuing Online Music Ventures for money owed for non-delivered discs for some months now. I have served a warrant of execution on Mr Smales at the address given on his website, but the bailiffs were told that "the debtor has ceased trading there". This may, or may not, be true, but I am amazed to see that the website is still up and running, especially as I (and presumably others) have complained to Trading Standards about the company continuing to take money. I will keep trying to get satisfaction.

Paul