We've been watching... just keeping quiet

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

OK, I know this will come as a major shock, but things are moving again.

I spent this afternoon at Mark's place clearing the decks, tidying up, and starting to get everything ready to get going again.

Some good progress made on that score. But there are 'developments' too. I'll take the camera along tomorrow and get some pics... lets just say that things aren't going to plan.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

hi andy,

just a quick heads up - on youtube there's a humble pie vid w/ steve marriot playing a uke. one of the last guys i'd have pegged as a uke player but then again he did do "ichikoo (sp?) park" so he wasn't all screaming guitars ;-) thought you'd like to know ...

cheers,

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

Good to hear the ukulele project is back on track. The world needs more of them. A friend turned me on to jake Shimabukuro on you tube last week. Perhaps the world's leading ukulele virtuoso, this is top drawer uke action! Nearly eight and a half million hits can't be all wrong. He does a jaw dropping Bohemian Rhapsody too. Too good not to share if you haven't discovered him already, and something for Andy to aspire to when he's finished building his own. Personally if I tried doing that on a ukulele it wouldn't be the uke that was gently weeping but the player...

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Strictly project and just for fun

i love this quote

Quote:

---

Justin Bieber: God sent me to make music


Rebecca Black: God sent me to make music


Jake Shimabukuro: I don't remember sending either of you...

---

Cheers guys, all gratefully received. But first I've got to finish building the b*ggers.

And the following isn't for the faint hearted.....

When we closed down for the winter Mark took the bodies indoors for safety. Although the workshop is an old stone built building, it only has a pull down garage door. And with all the rain and damp around he was concerned about their well being after all the work that had gone into them.

Unfortunately, they went on top of a wardrobe in a centrally heated bedroom. Terrible thing central heating. It sucks all the humidity out of the air....

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

And you can see the result.

A wonderful selection of splits in the back of the cutaway uke. And inside it has even managed to damage the braces, they were well enough glued that when the back split, it stayed attached to the braces and split them in places too.

But hey!! [ ****** ] happens sometimes and we have to deal with it. Whatever else, that back has to come off. It might need a replacement, but there's a reasonable chance that I can repair it so that's the first option. The binding will have to be sacrificed, then the back comes off and the braces too. Once that's done I should be able to glue the splits and reinforce them with cleats. Then it's time to look at the braces, it may be possible to re-profile them but if not I'll need to make some new ones. And then refit the back and re-bind it.

The afternoon was spent getting the planes back in shape. I stripped and cleaned one of Mark's (a very nice old Marples one that was his father in law's) yesterday and this morning. So this afternoon I finished cleaning that one up and then got on with stoning and sharpening the blade plus the blades for my three planes. Tomorrow I'll work on getting the chisels in shape.

And then... well, I'll have to remove all that lovely back binding and get the back off to repair.

It's all fun, so I'm told

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Hi Andy

Its fab to see this thread alive again!

The splits in the back is sad news especialy when it was all going so well before. I really hope it will repair easily.

I felt sick seeing those pics. No fair. Rooting for a successful repair though, rather than having to replace the backs. Maybe we should get more serious about using humidifiers in the UK if we are going to have colder winters like the last two? Everyone has had their windows tightly closed and the heating cranked up. Even those sponges on hooks are supposed to help and they don't cost much

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Strictly project and just for fun

Thanks Jumpy and Frisonic.

The good news is that it is only one of the backs that split. Just the one to fix, not both !! LOL

Interestingly, Mark's wife thought that she saw the big split when he took it into the house and mentioned it then. But there is no sign of any impact damage anywhere, so it has to be something in the wood itself, humidity changes, or both. But it will be fixed, that's for sure.

Meanwhile, this afternoon was spent with more tool sharpening. So now the chisels are as sharp as the planes

As for humidifiers in general, I still don't think they are required in the UK. But worth considering if you live in a modern house and love the central heating turned up in winter, especially with the wet summers we've had recently. The problem with the uke really is just 'one of those things' rather than a typical problem.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Vary sad to see these pix

Full marks to you for taking it on the chin and just getting on with it.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Cheers Will

And thanks. But this always was supposed to be a warts and all thread. Working in the sort of space that anyone might have available and using the minimum of specialist tools. But between you and me, I really can't wait to get a 'proper' workshop again and get it fully equipped.

Thinking time over. Time to stop thinking and to get on with it. The top priority was keeping the back, it's a beautiful piece of wood and a lot of work went into jointing it, thicknessing it, and inlaying the back strip. And with that in mind it was better to sacrifice the binding then the back. Overall a lot cheaper and a lot better.

So, whatever way we go, the binding has to go. If the worst comes to the worst, we'll have to get another back. But we have a good chance of saving this one, so it is important that I don't do any more damage getting it off. My first thought was to use the Dremel with the router base to trim off the bindings. But the router base wouldn't work over that big split. So I got out the razer saw to cut halfway down the maple binding, like this...

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

I cut until I reached the perflings. And then popped the flex-shaft on the Dremel and used a circular saw blade to slot the waist and cutaway to match. Then it was out with the freshly sharpened chisel to trim it back to the top and kerfings inside.

[image][/image]

And these two pics show how the back as split the brace as well.

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

Now I've got a clear view of the joint between the back and the kerfings it's time to separate them both. The idea is to do as little damage as possible and to prioritise the back so that it needs as little extra work as possible. So, it's time to get out the hot knife... or, in other words, the old butter knife and heat it on the bending iron

I did manage to use a scalpel and open up a crack by the big split. That's enough to get started with the hot knife. You can see the start split here..

[image][/image]

And I hate to say it, but the process of removing and repairing the back fills me with less trepidation than the thought of ordering replacement bindings/perflings from the States. Topping up the bank account, making the order, then the postage, waiting for the courier, paying the VAT and Duty.... so much hassle

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

It's great to see this thread active again.

I'm sad to see the damage to the back of that uke - it must be very frustrating! On the other hand it's great to see what goes into repairing an instrument that's damaged like this. I wish you the very best of luck!!

Dan

Many thanks Dan

It's been 'interesting' this week. In the past I've had to partially separate backs and fronts for repairs, but I've always managed to fix splits with the top or back in situ until now.

So until today I managed to avoid removing a front or back completely. But this time there was no alternative, so it was time to get out the bending iron and an old dinner knife.

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

Yes, it all looks a bit Heath Robinson. I wanted to get the knife sitting as flush as possible to the top of the iron so it heated quickly and evenly. The bowl of water isn't needed for the job, but there for safety reasons... that iron gets HOT. If I was foolish enough to touch it a supply of cold water close to hand was helpful. As always, taking sensible precautions proved to be the best way to ensure you didn't need them

And here I am going for the kill, a hot knife through a ukelele

[image][/image]

And here we are a few minutes later. Open Sesame !!!

[image][/image]

It took about 20 minutes to work patiently around the back joint with the hot knife. But the still left the braces attached to the back and sides. So I concentrated on the point where the braces joined the back. And conveniently, they split away quite nicely. Leaving the bulk of the braces still attached to the body but neatly splitting along the grain to leave part attached to the back. That being a good thing, it helps maintain the body integrity and keep the back in one piece until I am ready to remove the remnants and repair the splits.

[image][/image]

And here's the back held up to the light to show clearly how badly it has spilt.... and one of the splits doesn't show in the pic. You have to admit, it looks cool

[image][/image]

What I need to do now is come up with a suitable jig to help clamp the back together properly. It will be a variation of the jig that I used to joining the fronts and backs originally, but because I need to minimise any potential damage to the back now it is cut to shape and size it needs to be fitted specifically. I have a few ideas already, but need to work out the details.

But all in all, despite the problems it's great to be back to work.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Good job Andy, as they say in the US of A. Quite apart from finding your whole approach inspirational, and dare I say it, 'Zen' like, I'm learning an awful lot about luthierary from this project. You ought to post a PO Box to which we can all send cider, or whatever. You're spending the money, sweating the worry and we're enjoying the ride.

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Strictly project and just for fun

Cheers Frisonic,

A PO Box is tempting, but I can't be trusted with cider. I have to go to the pub every night to ration my intake!!

I've enjoyed the weekend off, but been thinking about knocking up the jig to clamp the back for glueing. I have a good idea what's needed now, and have the scrap MDF in the shed to achieve it. So that's the task to start on tomorrow.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

those cracks are nothing to do with central heating!

If you build a uke bigger than a car, of course its going to collapse under its own weight!

Quote Jumpeyspyder:

---

If you build a uke bigger than a car, of course its going to collapse under its own weight!

---

LOL, it's a Black Hole model Bass Ukulele, perfect for Dub Hula.

No pics today, but I spent a few hours with a jigsaw making a start on what I hope to be a suitable jig for clamping the back properly when I glue those cracks.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Andy, I googled 'Dub Hula' out of curiosity and I can confirm you have just invented a new genre of music. That certainly doesn't happen every day. Congratulations!

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Strictly project and just for fun

That means I need to get some construction kits and sketch up some examples now!! More work !!

Although I imagine Dub Hula evolved from the earlier Slack Ska Guitar

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Well no one here has you down as a slacker Andy so I expect you can park defining the finer points of Hula Dub for phase two. Meanwhile we are all waiting with baited breath for the next development in phase one. Careful with that axe, Eugene...!!! (or was that plane)?

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Strictly project and just for fun

So, you need more pics?



This is using the original body template to give an idea of what I have in mind. Using a variation on an alternative method for joining fronts and backs. Making some fitted cauls to protect the back as much as possible while clamping.



So I managed to use my pillar drill with some sanding drums to shape the cauls.





You can see I've allowed a gap between the cauls and the back, just enough to add cork strip to the edges of the cauls to protect the back from damage.

Tomorrow I should glue the cork on, and then make progress on the rest of the bits needed to make it work.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

As promised, the cork strips glued to the edges of the clamping caul and waiting to dry.

And I put some feet on the baseboard and then cut out some support plates for the back. Because the back is already at the right thickness I need to take care when glueing the cracks. Not only have I got to get them neatly glued, I need to ensure that the back is as near flat as possible. Hence the support plates.



And then I took some time to make these curious blocks....



... they will help press the support plates flat when I apply clamping pressure.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Looking good Zen!

Wow!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Cheers guys, the only problem is that I am getting closer and closer to having to bite the bullet and glue the d*mn thing!!

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

A relatively quiet day today, a short while with the saw and then getting out the sandpaper. And then some quality time spent cogitating. But that's OK, Kerry the Gardener is always around on Thursday afternoons



And as you can see, the blocks and edges are all now nicely radiused.

And after mucho cogitation I've decided that this is a job for hide glue. It will flow into the cracks a lot better than white wood glue.

There's a still a little more work to be done on the jig. But I think I have the right bits to hand now. And you lucky people get to see hide glue in action soon. Meanwhile, I have to wait until next Thursday to see Kerry the Gardener again..... Ho Hum.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Given that we can't see Kerry, yourself having the advantage Andy and I hope the garden looks lovely, there is surely some consolation for the rest of us in 'seeing' 'hide' glue... Which sounds like an oxymoron! But I'm really interested in having an insight into glue technology. It seems to be essential in luthiery and frankly I don't really know my bostick from my cow gum to my araldite. Actually I usually use duct tape (not attractive).

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Strictly project and just for fun

a slightly runny cacscamite mix?

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

I must admit I've never heard of hide glue either

However, a quick google revealed this very informative site:

http://www.frets.com/fretspages/luthier/Data/Materials/hideglue.html < br />

Hope I'm not stepping on your toes Andy.

Edited by Folderol (08/07/11 07:16 PM)

Don't worry Folderol, no toes stepped on

And the Frets site is a very good reference for anyone interested in luthiery. Frank Ford is very experienced, and has been a top American luthier for many years. And as you can see, he's spent a lot of time analysing the subject. Our American cousins are as fond of their charts and tables as they are of jigs, moulds, contraptions, and templates.

Check out the link on that page to his glue chart.

More on glue in a moment. But first here's the progress on the back.





I've used a couple of machine screws to make sure the cauls stay in place once they come under pressure. The close-up shows that I've put slots on the cauls so that they can still slide. They'll be done up loose when I put on the initial pressure, then tightened fully before final clamping pressure.

Then it was on with removing the remnants of the braces.







And here's how it looks now the braces are fully off.





Back to glue... all other things being equal hide glue would be my first choice for most glueing jobs when making or repairing a guitar. But it does need preparation, and it also needs heat. So that's either a hotplate/gas burner in the workshop, or an expensive electric glue pot. For most jobs white wood glue is almost as good and a lot more convenient.

But there is nothing better for filling cracks. When hide glue is hot and ready for use it has a very water like consistency, which is perfect for cracks. You only need to open them a little and capillary action draws it all the way into the split.

Cascamite is often mentioned because of it's strength. But it's other qualities make it unsuitable for luthiery. It is very brittle and can crystallise with age. I remember an interesting conversation when I was studying with Norman Reed, one of the other students suggested it, and Norman said it was fine for a building site, or boatbuilding, but has no place in a guitar workshop. And I have had a few guitars over the years where an old cascamite repair has broken down and caused a lot more damage.

So, I've decided to glue on Monday, but as hide glue needs preparation I've starting making it up already.



First of all, the jar is labelled Pearl Glue. That's just the name for the better grade of hide glue. You can see how much I'm using in the lid.



This is with water added. Within 10 minutes it was fully absorbed so I topped it up again. The final ratio is about 2 parts water to one part glue, about the same as Frank Ford recommends. I was taught to leave it over night to absorb the water before heating. The glue I have certainly needs longer than the hour mentioned on the Frets site. And there'll be no problem waiting until Monday as the lid is securely screwed on.

So, a weekend off, and then glue time on Monday

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

i'd not suggest cascamite for a normal structural joint, but when made runnier , it penetrates well, and holds well... and with a bit of help from appropriate compounds to reduce surface tension, gets right in to the inter-fibre bonds... so for a split like that, it can potentially be useful...

for structural glue, most of the time i tend to go with aliphatic resins (a yellow glue, as opposed to the PVA everyone is normally familiar with for wood glue) they exhibit good impact resilience, and are harder setting than PVA.

however, that in itself, in a panel under any stress , can lead to failure over time , not of the glue, but the wood either side of it..

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

I agree entirely with the distinction between normal white glues and Aliphatic resins Max, although it can get contentious when you get into the detail. I've often seen it argued that all PVA's are Aliphatic resins and the term is reserved for PVA's with fewer additional additives. But then again, I am no expert, I just use the stuff. Original Titebond is an Aliphatic resin, but hard to find in the UK. But Humbrol wood glue is an Aliphatic resin too. The main difference between Aliphatic resins and ordinary PVA is that PVA has more slippage.

But when it comes to cascamite... I have to put my hand up and admit being a student of my teacher, especially after my experiences fixing old repairs made with cascamite. You know I'm not going to write it off out of hand, but given the choice of using something I know well (hide glue) that has a long history of doing the job well and I can use for many other things, or using something I don't know well and won't use for anything else... it's the hide glue every time.

But I'm happy to to concede that it does have some benefits for someone who knows it well enough. And for anyone who uses it regularly it would be a reasonable option if the alternative was to learn something they hadn't used before. But even then I would be cautious. For every boat builder using cascamite knowledgeably, there are a few thousand site carpenters working to the nearest cm slapping it on blindly

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Big day today.. zen vs the hide glue

And once it's all glued and clamped I'll hit the scraps bin, find the remnants of the back, and cut some pretty cleats to apply across the repairs after.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Look forward to the photos. Hope the hide glue looses....

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Strictly project and just for fun

So, the afternoon started fine, added another drop of water to the glue in the jar as it had all been absorbed. Then we fired up the gas stove and brought the water close to boiling point.

That's when I put the jar of glue into the water.



Remembering first to remove the lid. You don't want it exploding when you heat it!! And when you finish, make sure to leave the lid off/loose until it cools. You don't want it imploding, or seizing the lid on with the vacuum. Here's a closer look, see how it's gone all liquid.



However, before getting on with the glueing I needed to take some precautions. So I put a sheet of greaseproof paper over the baseboard, and then glued some more greaseproof paper to the top boards I made.



And then left them all to dry.

But eventually I had to bite the bullet and start glueing. And I'm afraid there was no time to take pics as I went. I had one clean break and 4 splits to get glued. However, the method is straightforward enough... use small paintbrush and dip into the liquid glue, paint glue along split/wood to be joined. I applied glue from both sides, and worked the wood a little to draw as much as possible into the repair.

Then it was straight into the jig for clamping. And the clamping pressure comes from the loops of string you can see.





The secret is to tighten the loops like a Spanish Windlass. It's a very old woodworker's technique that can apply a LOT of pressure with remarkable control. I use a variation of the technique to glue broken headstocks and the only real problem is that it is incredibly easy to put too much pressure on the joint.

The wooden blocks are there to make sure that there is plenty of downward pressure to ensure that the back remains flat, as well as the cauls applying the sideways pressure to clamp the glue joints tight.

And now I am just waiting. Hide glue dries initially by gelling, and then by evaporation. With the baseboard and top plates, it will definitely need to be left for close to 24 hours to dry properly. And open, or rubbed, hide glue joints can dry fully in a few hours.

So, fingers crossed. Of the 5 joints required, 4 looked fine. But one was visibly gapping, although less than 1/2th a mm, and I couldn't tell how well it would close without giving it a go.

I'll have no idea whether or not I've been able to save the back until I remove it from the clamping jig tomorrow...



Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

This is great! I can't wait to see what happens. With a bit of luck you've saved it. I'd hate to see that back go to waste.

Dan

Fingers crossed here!

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Oooo!!!! Or, to quote Sir Alex, it's squeaky bum time here in Deepest Devonshireshire...



Those bits of string are slack now.



Now they are removed, and so are the clamping cauls... looking good so far. Now to remove the pressure plates and have a good look.



Still looking good. Lets see if I managed to keep it flat when I glued it...



OK, maybe a 10th of a mm, but that's a great result. Lets hold it up to the light and see if the gaps are properly closed...



A complete lack of daylight And trust me, I was seriously worried, one of those gaps was quite scary. It's official, a success so far

So, time to head for the scraps bin. I always keep offcuts, partly because they sometimes come in very useful and partly because good woods are precious and shouldn't be wasted. And what have we here...



Some of the pieces I trimmed off when making the braces are perfect for making new braces. That'll save a LOT of time.



And some of the offcuts from the back itself will be ideal to make cleats. You can see I've cut some nice strips to work with.



And it was a few minutes work to plane the edges true after cutting them. I treated myself to a new fretsaw blade especially

And for those of you wondering about the hide glue. The remainder set nicely in the jar.



When I need it again, I just have to pop it into the water bath again and it will be ready in minutes. Although I will add a little more of the dried glue for any other jobs, I made it slightly runnier to make sure it got fully into the cracks. And now I have some ready, I will probably use it to glue on the new back braces and then glue the back to the sides.

The back needs a little tidying, so I sharpened the cabinet scraper with some nice new edges and then cleaned up the inside of the back.



The repairs are near invisible. I could have made them totally invisible but wanted to retain as much thickness as possible as I need to clean the outside later too. I'll leave the outside unfinished until I rebrace the back and apply some cleats. I need to, it's the only way to see where the splits were now, and I need that guide so I can add some cleats.

All in all, a great result and a very successful day. So to capitalise on my luck, I went into the village to buy a ticket for the Euromillions draw. Haven't checked it yet

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

I've been holding my breath too long already to worry about your chances of wining the Euro Draw (best of luck BTW)! This latest post is tremendous news. Well done, its been a privilege having an insight into how you got yourself out of that set back. That back looks so good.

Looking forward to the next saga...

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Strictly project and just for fun

Excellent news!! That really is a great job you did there Zen!