Indeed they are looking really good, but I think you should keep an eye on them. They seem to be getting very friendly

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Cured that, took the necks off again

It's fretting time !!!! OOOOOOH!!!!!

First up, I took my nice StewMac fret press over to Mark's.



I bought it a while ago, but this is it's first outing in anger so looking forward to pressing those little frets in

And here's everything lined up ready to start cutting the frets. There are loads of ways of going about it, but I still work the way I was taught by Norman Reed.



I use the same jeweller's saw that I use for cutting pearl, but with a thicker blade. Yes, you can cut the fret wire with side cutters, but that deforms the fretwire a little. You need to allow a little extra overlap for that, and later on you need to stone/file away the excess. So a little extra time spent cutting accurately saves a lot of time and effort later.

I use the callipers to measure the width of the fret slot, but with a sneaky trick. For the first fret, I measure the width at the second fret. That gives a little extra to allow for slight errors and gives a little flexibility when fitting them too.



Then I transfer the measurement to the fretwire held in a vice. Not too easy to see here, but there is a mark on the wire, honest!!



Here it is cut and placed on the neck to check size.



And then stored in that piece of wood I drilled and labelled a week ago See, there was a reason for it



Then it was 18 more done the same way. Measure, mark, cut, and check. Once you get going it's pretty quick and very straightforward. And once you have all the frets cut, it's time to fit them into the slots. First of all I eyeballed the slots and had concerns about the depth of some of the slots, remember that I cut them before I radiused the fretboards so was prepared to double check. A few minutes with the neck in the vice and the saw soon made sure all the slots were a suitable depth and I could get on with fitting them.

Again, there are several options for fitting frets and to be honest all are as good as each other. Some people just press/hammer them in (and the slots were tight enough for me to do this if I wanted), others like to cut the slots a little wider and glue them in with superglue or epoxy, but I am in the camp that presses them in but lines the slot with wood glue to act as a gap filler. So, here's the first slot loaded with glue and ready for fretting.



And a few minutes later, here's the fret neatly pressed into place and the excess glue cleaned up.



And the other frets went reasonably smoothly after that. A few needed some gentle taps with the hammer to seat the edges first, but then they pressed in easily. And I found it easier to tap the edges in first on all the frets on the fretboard tongue. But I managed to get the whole neck finished.



All looking good. Nice and neat, and only a small amount to be stoned/filed of the edges ready for final levelling and finishing

All in all, a very good day

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

I'm already beginning to hear refrains of 'while my uke gently weeps'... That was a very informative post! Thank you Andy.

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Strictly project and just for fun

Sure you don't mean 'While my luthier gently weeps'?

Remember, too much of A Good Thing is never enough....



A full set of frets cut and ready to shoehorn into another neck, which I just happen to have lying around.



Looks good, but I can think of something that looks even better...



They'll both get stoned tomorrow

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

They'll both get stoned tomorrow

Andy

---

This is an essential part of the luthiery process I had hitherto been unaware of? So what are we talking here? A pourus sand stone, An unforgiving granite? Or perhaps, being ukes, a rare, flaky Maui Wowie?

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

---

Quote zenguitar:

---

They'll both get stoned tomorrow

Andy

---

This is an essential part of the luthiery process I had hitherto been unaware of? So what are we talking here? A pourus sand stone, An unforgiving granite? Or perhaps, being ukes, a rare, flaky Maui Wowie?

---

Or maybe just skunk

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

---

Quote Frisonic:

---

Quote zenguitar:

---

They'll both get stoned tomorrow

Andy

---

This is an essential part of the luthiery process I had hitherto been unaware of? So what are we talking here? A pourus sand stone, An unforgiving granite? Or perhaps, being ukes, a rare, flaky Maui Wowie?

---

Or maybe just skunk

---

That would be far too crude for a fret job of this caliber Federol, surely? Anyway that's not a stone. That's getting clubbed on the back of the neck with the butt of an AK47!



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Strictly project and just for fun

Norton sharpening stones!!!

The herbal stuff is reserved for luthiers!!! I've been aching all over for 2 days now. A result of the bench height and the chair height.

And getting back to stoning the necks...



Here;s the first all secure in the vice ready for me to run the sharpening stones along the edges of the new frets. The edges of the frets have to be flush with the edge of the fretboard, and the ends have to have a 30 degreeish bevel on them too.



After stoning the first edge.



Then the second edge.



Sighting down the 2nd edge.

And then the same with the other neck. And just for the fun of it, here are a couple of pics of the necks placed with the bodies.





And after that I trimmed out the headstock veneers from over the truss rod adjusters. And that means the next step is to glue the necks to the bodies. And to drill the machine head holes for the bushings. You can guess what I'm up to tomorrow

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Well they look nice and relaxed Andy. I should allow yourself a luthier moment on the back of that session mate!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

---

Well they look nice and relaxed Andy. I should allow yourself a luthier moment on the back of that session mate!

---

Agree 110%

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

So, I've decided to award myself saturday and sunday off this week

Partly because I'm worth it, but largely because I didn't glue any necks today. And if I glued them on saturday I would want to remove the clamps on sunday, which is a definite no-no.

But what I did do was get out the pillar drill and drill both headstocks to take the tuner bushings. Ruth's was pretty straightforward. But mine needed a little extra effort because one of the original holes was slightly out of place. So to tidy it up, I re-drilled two of the holes all of the way through at the larger diameter for the bushings. Then I improvised with the fret press to partially insert the bushings in those holes before locating the tuners and drilling the pilot holes to mount them.



And then I removed the temporarily fitted bushings without damaging the headstock veneer. So all should be OK when it comes to finishing the headstocks later.

And on monday I will be fitting necks. Then it's time to make some bridges, fit nuts and saddles, and then get started on final finishing. Almost there !!

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

In all that amusement about stoning them, did we all forget to mention how good the frets look Andy? Have a peaceful and well earned weekend



Or fireworks if you prefer!



KABOOM!!!!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Ahhh!! Fireworks I've always wanted to get a Class A Fireworks licence

Instead, I got back to work this afternoon. Started with a final test fitting of a neck while the hide glue was soaking. Then once all was ready I started slowly heating the glue while I removed the neck again.

The neck bolts do the main work of attaching the neck to the body but the tongue of the fretboard is glued to the soundboard. If the neck needs to be reset in the future it can be removed quite easily. Just take the bolts out and then heat the tongue of the fretboard to break the glue join cleanly.

And now the glue has melted, all it needs is a few moments with a paintbrush, some nifty work with an allen key through the soundhole, and some clamps.





A few seconds with a damp cloth to clean the join. And then wait until tomorrow.

And after that I test fitted the second neck. This time it wasn't quite so straightforward, the curve on the front left a gap close to the edge that wouldn't close even with a heavy clamp. So, the solution is to glue a couple of strips of bloodwood (matching the veneer strip under the ebony) to the tongue.



Tomorrow I'll carve/sand them back into a curve that matches the front. Then I'll glue the second neck as well.

Next task is to clean up the shelf where the nut fits on both ukes, rough size the bone nuts, and mark and cut the string slots. Closely followed by levelling the tops of the frets and re-profiling them.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And so, after a little fine tuning, it was time to heat up the glue pot and fit neck number two.





And as a special bonus you can see the first neck in the background. Ruth is very chuffed with it

Two scary things come to mind...

The first is that the soundholes are too small to get enough clamps in to glue the bridges, which means one thing... The b!oody Go-Bar Deck of Doom once more!!

Second, I'm getting very close to the point where I have to learn to play the d@mned thing!!

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

I'm getting very close to the point where I have to learn to play the [Email]d@mned[/Email] thing!!

Andy

---

I was wondering when this would come up... I've never played one myself, except in the occasional guitar shop. I know that's not cool but it's the truth. I don't even know what the tuning is... I'm guessing not violin tuning (haven't bothered looking it up on line yet)?

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote zenguitar:

---

Second, I'm getting very close to the point where I have to learn to play the [Email]d@mned[/Email] thing!!

Andy

---

i know a bloke could Jake who could help with that....

Quote Frisonic:

---

Quote zenguitar:

---

I'm getting very close to the point where I have to learn to play the [Email]d@mned[/Email] thing!!

Andy

---

I was wondering when this would come up... I've never played one myself, except in the occasional guitar shop. I know that's not cool but it's the truth. I don't even know what the tuning is... I'm guessing not violin tuning (haven't bothered looking it up on line yet)?

---

Oh dear. I somehow got the idea you already knew how to play them

Well, I've a suspicion that that playing might turn out to be more difficult than making

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

I shouldn't have any problem learning, as you all know I'm a long term fan of non-standard guitar tunings. You just put your fingers where it sounds, kinda, OK. Innit?

Meanwhile, at Ukulele Central... nuts.

Or should I say, NUTS.

That's right, nuts

Tidied up both nut ledges and then set about working on the over-sized blanks we purchased. Trimmed the excess width and then sanded the bone blank to the right thickness for the shelf.



Here's the first one finished, with the second as a reference.



And here are both finished and sitting pretty.

Tomorrow I'll trim them both to width and rough height, and then cut guide string slots so I can run some threads to the bridge and start marking those out too.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

That was quite a hair cut! I had a good guitar day myself today, in a trading sort of way, so I'm far too blissed out to ask what cutting tool you used to trim the bones...

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Strictly project and just for fun

Andy, before you finish your project, just wanted you to know I've been among the congregated throng peering in your window admiringly. Great work! You've got the patience of Job.

And thanks for sharing.

Best,

Rick

I used the saw from my StewMac nut slotting set to trim to length. Other options include the good old X-Acto style razor saw and the jeweller's saw with the heavier blade that I used to cut the frets.

Thicknessed the traditional way... sandpaper

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Many Thanks Rick,

Glad you are enjoying it, I wanted to show what could be done with pretty basic tools and just a few hours a day. And hopefully a few people will get the confidence to have a go themselves.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Having grabbed my half pencil secret weapon, I marked both nut blanks. The main markings are the edges of the fretboard so I can cut to width, and the level of the top of the frets as a guide to the height.



On this occasion I marked the top of the frets, the top of the frets plus the thickness of a Stanley Knife blade, and the top of the frets plus the thickness of 2 Stanley Knife blades. Remember, at this pont the markings are there for guidance only, the final fitting will come later.



With the top shaped close to the line it was time to file the sides back to width.

And then it was time to dig out some more tools and mark out the location of the string slots. Now, that's pretty subjective, you have to decide how close to the edge of the fretboard the strings go, and you have to decide how to space the strings across the nut. Because the strings are different thicknesses you have a couple of options, you can give them equi-distant centres and unequal gaps between the strings, you can have unequal centres but equal gaps between the strings, or something between the two. Personally, I use the StewMac tool for marking out the string spacing which tends to even out the gaps between the strings. Most luthier's sweeten the string spacing like that, it tends to look and feel better.



And with shallow nut slots cut as a guide, it was time to start marking out for the bridge.





I marked a centre line, and then the notional scale length (2x the distance from nut to 12th fret). I need to allow for the intonation which I'll calculate tomorrow. I also marked a couple of lines following the edges of the fretboard because I plan to use them to design the bridges.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

I did some more research last night, and with some help from Left Brain Luthierie I came up with some practical numbers to give me a good idea how much to allow for intonation so I can come up with some realistic dimensions for the bridges.

The approach is that I will be making the bridge blanks without saddle slots. Once they are fitted and I have applied the finishes I will fit the strings, finally finish the nuts, and then work out the exact saddle positions for each string. With that done I'll cut the saddle slots and then finally cut and shape the saddles to ensure proper intonation.

So with that in mind, after doing some numbers and marking out on paper, I measured up and started cutting down the first saddle blank.



Masking tape comes in very useful with ebony. A pencil line on masking tape is a lot easier to follow than a scalpel cut on the ebony itself. So after rough trimming to length I sanded one edge flat and put a layer of masking tape over the top. Then I drew out the cutting lines on the tape. Then I used saws to trim close to the cutting lines and a fresh sanding disk on the bench belt and disk sander to sand back to the lines.

At this point I was joined by my new apprentice.



And this is what I was trying to take a picture of. The first blank ready for final shaping and fitting.



Tomorrow I intend to plane it to 9 or 10mm thick, sand a radius on the bottom to match the uke, and start shaping.

Usefully, I bought a pair of classical guitar bridge blanks and they are big enough to get two uke bridges from each. So I have a couple of spares for stock

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

This is fascinating stuff. A question about mass produced bridges and intonation, if I may, Andy: Given their machining etc. throughout the manufacturing process is all consistent/sound, can mass producers of stringed, fretted acoustic instruments reasonably expect mass produced, pre intoned bridges to meet acceptable standards of intonation? Or for acceptably accurate intonation does every individual instrument need to be given individual bridge adjustment? And if the latter then at what price point would you consider the guitar industry stops producing acceptable instruments for, say, school aged guitar lessons? I realise there is the whole set up to be considered as well but surely without decent intonation no set up is going to deliver much playability above the basic major and minor chords? No point in wondering much beyond the third fret anyway.

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Strictly project and just for fun

Hmmm... I've just had a think about that.

Of course, a lot depends on how accurate is acceptable especially in the current climate where most commercial recordings are tuned to death. The standard slanted saddle is a compromise, and split saddles aren't a lot better. So all acoustics are inherantly compromised to a greater or lesser extent.

In the past a lot of tuning and intonation problems were as much to do with the accuracy of the fretting as they were with the accuracy of the bridge.

Modern manufacturing means that even the cheapest guitar can have accurate frets. And once you have repeatable, accurate, frets it is a matter of moments to put together a jig that accurately locates the bridge with the saddle slot in the right position relative to the twelth fret.

So provided the factory has reasonable quality control, I see no reason why even the most basic acoustic shouldn't have acceptable intonation given that guitars are intrinsically a bunch of compromises anyway. And more importantly, even if it isn't perfect, it should be close enough for a decent tech to make it even more accurate if that's what a player wants.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Thanks for giving it some thought Andy. So this is good news! I guess what you are saying is that there is no reason why any mass produced acoustic guitar shouldn't play there or there abouts, out of the box, after a basic set up (assuming the production line was properly set up in the first place and the manufacturer resisted the temptation to make the body from cardboard or something). And if you are prepared to invest in a seasoned luthiers skills then some bespoke fine adjustment to the bridge might improve things significantly and shouldn't take too much of his/her time.

The sub text being that intonation problems may often be due not so much to a dodgy bridge but poorly fitted frets or an unadjustable/unadjusted truss rod?

Cool kitty BTW!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Great inspiring thread
Seeing as we're at the bridge making stage I thought I would post a picture for comparison of a hand-made bridge I've just been given . It is a spare for the Dilruba I was given earlier ( http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=937480& page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1#937480 )
It is made of camel bone , since if it was made of ivory it would not be wise to tell everyone in the current climate ! It is just a coincidence that they are traditionally made in the loose shape of an elephant .

All those little holes were probably done by hand . Pity it is chipped at the top .

BTW My apprentice in my avatar plays piano , she tried bass once but got scared .

Fantastic work , Andy .

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Music is it's own reward .

Nice bridge Dave, a wonderful collection of drones and sympathetic strings

And as for the Apprentice, she climbs everywhere so it's often safer to have her in sight on the workbench than creating mayhem out of sight

And as for intonation... in my experience loose truss rods are top of the list, closely followed by unrealistic demands for perfect intonation. One of the great strengths of the guitar is that it's a 'both hands on the strings' instrument; whilst it is notionally an Equal Tempered instrument, in the hands of a skilled/talented player the tuning can be 'sweetened' according to how you play. The harder you press the strings down, the sharper they go. Or, in other words, tuning and intonation depends on the player as much as it does on the construction and set-up of the instrument.

Show me a perfectly intonated guitar and I'll find you a guitarist who would still insist on replacing the nut with an Earvana nut

Meanwhile, time to make a pile of ebony shavings...

First step is to mark a cutting line with a scalpel.



And here's the blank planed down to just under 9mm thick.



Then I marked out the 'wings' on the side, started the cuts with scalpel and razor saw, and worked away with the chisel. Didn't take too long to make an impression, and here it is in place on the uke so you can see how it's looking.



I decided to stop there and leave sanding the bottom of the bridge to match the curve of the top until Monday. But for a comparison, here's the rough shaped blank next to the other bridge blank.



Once the bottom of the bridge is shaped I'll finish shaping the wings, cut the groove to create the tie block, and inlay a bone strip along the back edge.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

And as for intonation... in the hands of a skilled/talented player the tuning can be 'sweetened' according to how you play. The harder you press the strings down, the sharper they go. Or, in other words, tuning and intonation depends on the player as much as it does on the construction and set-up of the instrument.

---

Can't argue with that! I of course have only been asking about this because I need all the help I can get, plus I do play a lot of open chords higher up the fret board...

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

---

I of course have only been asking about this because I need all the help I can get, plus I do play a lot of open chords higher up the fret board...

---

It's worth sitting down with a chromatic tuner and spending some time playing every string at every fret to see how accurate the tuning is. And also experimenting with pressing the string lightly to the fret, and pressing harder to see how much difference that makes. Try your favourite open chords up the neck and check the strings individually whilst holding the chord.

Then put a capo on, fine tune, and repeat. And do that for the capo at different frets too.

Generally, get to know the neck a lot better. Learn the areas of the neck/strings that are prone to going sharp or are very sensitive to how hard you fret the string. Just knowing that can be enough to get you adjusting the way you play subconsciously. If you find one string that tends to be sharp, experiment with tuning it a couple of cents flat. Effectively re-distributing the tuning errors across the neck.

It's certainly a worthwhile exercise.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

As an ex pedal-steel player I can tell you there are dozens of tuning charts out there where certain strings are tuned a bit sharp or flat to give proper resonances when played together. Pianos too.

Interestingly, now playing jazz on my Cordoba, and using an octave technique quite often, I must detune the G string a bit so that around the 12th fret it will sync to the E 1st string. So, as Andy says, tunings should always be varied depending on the acoustic guitar's native intonation and to accomodate the particular playing style.

Then you really will enjoy playing more because she'll be singin' to you!

(My Gibson es175 has a floating bridge in addition to adjustable saddles which allows for perfect intonation settings and hence the sweetest sound!)


Rick

Now this is an interesting twist to the thread. As rather a novice guitarist, I often find myself with a death-grip on the guitar, resulting in me pressing far too hard on the strings. Mostly it's not much of a problem, but the A and especially the E(6) string go very sharp when I do that. I did try tuning them down a touch, but then I find that when I'm actually playing decently (for a change) they are now too flat.

{mutter}{mutter}Never have this trouble with my keyboard{mutter}

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

---

{mutter}{mutter}Never have this trouble with my keyboard{mutter}

---

I can fix that

Map after touch to pitch bend

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Quote Folderol:

---

{mutter}{mutter}Never have this trouble with my keyboard{mutter}

---

I can fix that

Map after touch to pitch bend

Andy

---

Funny you should say that... One of my soundfont players does exactly that. It doesn't have MIDI filtering

... but my sequencer does

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

So... what's scarier than a luthier who understands MIDI?

How about sticking sandpaper to the front of a uke to sand the bottom of the bridge blank?



The front itself is the perfect template for sanding the bridge to fit. But you have to take care to avoid pressing too hard, and you have to work slowly and patiently.



And this was where I had one of those Good News/Bad News moments. The bad news is that sanding like that made me feel my tendonitis. The good news is that it meant I had a real incentive to keep a loose grip and not press too hard.

And after a couple of changes of sandpaper it was a nice fit.





And time to mark out the channel that separates the saddle from the tie block.



Then I cut carefully along the marked lines with a scalpel and cleaned out the slot with a real router. Not one of those fancy powered ones, a real, old fashioned, manual one. You'll remember it from when I was cutting the channels for the inlayed rosettes for the soundholes. I was soon down to the level of the wings I cut last week. So I took the wings lower again and carried on cutting the channel. It's not quite finished, but here's the bridge in place to let you all see how it's getting on.



Tomorrow I'll get the groove to full depth, knock up a jig to drill the holes in the tie block for the strings, and maybe even inlay the bone and veneer strips along the back edge.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Phuque Me, that's scarier than watching one of those operating scenes from a House episode!

PS I know very well that all you luthiers are well into your MIDI sonic trips Andy! Why wouldn't you? Everybody else is

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Strictly project and just for fun

And (almost) live from the Operating Theatre at Hector's House...

More Ukelele based shannanigans.

After some relaxing work with the razor saw and chisel taking the bridge wings lower there were no more excuses. Time to drill the string holes in the tie block. You see, the problem is that the holes aren't parallel to the top of the block, they come in at an angle from the back to come out at the bottom of the slot. So I cut the slot a little deeper and decided to knock up a quick jig.

Plane the correct angle along a piece of scrap, and then pin a support to hold the bridge.





Then it's just a matter of marking out the centres at the right string spacing from the drawing...



Clamp the bridge to the jig and get ready to drill...



And here it is finished with 4 neat holes that appear right at the bottom edge of the slot. Perfect





And after a relaxing cigarette it was tme to rummage in the offcuts bin. A piece of thin bone (an extra thin saddle blank) used for a previous inlay and some pieces of blue and green purfling later, it was time to mark out the tie block ready for binding the back edge. The bone is nice and hard, doesn't show the string wear so much and is a nice decorative touch.



I've marked the lines with a scalpel and then chalk to highlight it. Tomorrow I'm cutting the binding ledge the old fashioned way, with a chisel and scalpel

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Very nicely done, and keeping to the minimalist technology I see

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

First job today was to cut a strip of bone ready for the tie block.



Then it was out with the scalpel and chisel to cut the channel. And once it was close I grabbed my nut and saddle files to shape the ledge neatly. Those files are great for this, one is course and medium, the other is fine and extra fine, but they all have the edges ground smooth so you can use them as a guide against one edge of the shelf while you sand the other surface.



And after a few test fittings and final filing, it was time to glue the bone and purflings.



And to make sure that it sat perfectly square, I clamped it in a vice once I had the tape securely in place.



Tomorrow I'll sand it neatly and generally finish off shaping the bridge. But until then I can make a start on the second bridge. Here's the blank ready for trimming down.



And like the first I trimmed to width and length before marking out for thicknessing.



And then grabbed the plane and got it to about 10mm thick. The blank wasn't quite as thick as the first, so less shavings this time



This is the West African Ebony, I chose it for mine as I love the orange grain which is more visible than that in Ruth's bridge.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.