Just got a job with an arts group that do Presentations, ranging from one speaker to entire panels of speakers.
They want to invest in their own equipment and are interested in clip on wireless mics, which makes perfect sense, however i cant seam to find a system that supports more than one or two mics, does anyone have any idea if there are any systems that can support multiple mic sources and where i can look into getting one?
Much appreciated

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Gethyn S. Hunter

I've only seen integrated dual-mic systems at the cheap end of the market. Normally each mic has its own receiver, although they may be rack-mounted and share a distributed aerial system.

Try to persuade them to use head-mounted boom mics rather than lapels. There may be initial user-resistence, but they sound SO much better! The cheaper Sennheisers are IMO the lowest-price gear worth owning. If this is beyond the budget, I'd go REALLY cheap and pick up the sort of thing aimed at dance teachers. There's little point in buying anything in-between.

As a slight aside, have a look at the sticky thread in this forum about radio mics and the link therein to the "save our sound" campaign. Make sure you're well aware of the current situation before investing in hardware that you may not be able to use in less than two years from now.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Top and bottom of it, if we're talking more than 2 systems, you need a system per mic. Dual receivers that provide a mixed output are available, but imho, you need a simple mixer and a receiver per transmitter.
I'd be looking at the trantec s5.3 systems. Decent performance, cheaper than sennheiser, and only 1 AA battery for stupid lifespan.

But, i'd look to hire whenever i could.

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Chris
Radio Communications and Electronics Engineer within the Aviation Industry - plays in the theatre when he has the time!

Something like Sennheiser's G3 will probably be the best for what you do - 300G3 is the one for your application, but 100G3 will also be good (but you do not get the programmable mute switch and remote mure switch with 100 series).

You can get up to 6 frequencies working licence-free in the 863-865MHz band (this is in version E).

If you need more than this, wait about three months and get the new G3 version GB that covers the new Ch.38 band - you should be able to get a dozon or more frequencies working together here. But this band requires you to buy a licence.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

The trantec's are available now in channel 38. They allow 12 systems simultaneous within 38, but channel 70 (licence free) is still available (though not on the same kit as channel 38 at this end of the market - they won't tune over that range).

6 simultaneous in channel 70??? Please please tell me your frequencies. Best i've ever managed (or seen anybody else for that matter) is 4.

I was a staunch sennheiser fan, but Trantec are winning me over slowly. The more robust connectors, the battery life, usb connectivity on the entry level model receivers, infrared programming. They're also cheaper than the lowest spec G3 model, but have the feature set of the mid range G3's nearly.

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Chris
Radio Communications and Electronics Engineer within the Aviation Industry - plays in the theatre when he has the time!

I'd second what cedd said above about Trantec systems..i've run some good shows with them recently. Also they do some good value 'racked'n'ready' package deals:
http://www.trantec.co.uk/html/p_RackednReady.htm

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Cheers, Ben Gummery, Techie

Quote cedd:

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6 simultaneous in channel 70??? Please please tell me your frequencies. Best i've ever managed (or seen anybody else for that matter) is 4.

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Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Frequencies that will work together are entirely dependent on the manufacturer - the way they design the RF filter stages and the transmission bandwidths for example are all unique to each manufacturer so what works for one won't necessarily work for another. The RF performance of the G3 systems is better than the G2, hence being able to pack a greater number of channels in to the same space.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Yeah i'm aware of that. My bank of frequencies that i use with JTS kit is completely different to my sennheiser stuff, and would probably be different again if i went Trantec, were it not for the fact that my Trantec rack will be channel 38.
But.... six G3 frequencies that work intermod free in 70 would be useful to know about.What would also be interesting to know is if adjacent channel 69 systems caused, or were subject to, interference from the channel 70 systems. i.e. can you only run 6 in 70 if you don't run certain frequencies in 69?
The aim of the game here is as many channels simultaneous as possible. I can run 12 Trantecs in 38, if i can run 6 G3's in 70 and then my 4 VHF systems, that's 22 channels with only one license! Yes we accept the possibility of interference from other unlicensed users in 70 and VHF, but on the sites i work, it's highly unlikely. Then factor in the availability of channel 69 with a license for a few years yet, we could be looking at 30/32 channels of wireless (I've managed 10 systems in 69, with some (very minimal - kept to minor characters who aren't on stage at the same time) intermod).

The major problem with all that is having the 3 different aerial systems required! 69 and 70 will happily share, but i use quite narrow band Yagi aerials for the most part. They won't stretch down to 38 on the same aerials. VHF of course is completely different again.

I may be adding 6 G3 systems to my setup.....

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Chris
Radio Communications and Electronics Engineer within the Aviation Industry - plays in the theatre when he has the time!

In US frequency problems plague wireless use. The ability to distribute and steer the antenna is about the most important thing here so you don't all of a sudden start hearing the DJ a couple rooms over.

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Sacramento Sound & Audio Equipment Rental
Live Sound Audio

69 and 70 will quite happily generate intermod for each other, and even the 38/69-70 split is not really wide enough to guarantee that separate intermod calculations run for each block will be safe....

Good bandpass filtering helps, but ultimately sitting down with a spreadsheet is the only way to fly if you are running more then a small handful of channels.

Regards, Dan.

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Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!

Quote dmills:

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Good bandpass filtering helps, but ultimately sitting down with a spreadsheet is the only way to fly if you are running more then a small handful of channels.

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Normally I agree with Dan, but I will clarify something. Spreadsheet is good, hands on testing with the packs is MUCH better.

Seablade

Channel 38 is *not* fully available now. It will only be fully available after 2012.

A new Ch.69 licence will also cover Ch.38/39/40. If you are touring you have to have kit that can be tuned and you *must* check the JFMG website to see if you have to use Ch.38 or 39 or 40 - this is a legal requirement of the licence.

You must *not* use Ch.38 anywhere at the moment - the law is very strict on this.
After 2012, Ch.38 will be usable all over like Ch.69 is now and Ch.69 will be withdrawn - at the same time Ch.39 & 40 will revert to fixed-site only.

Regarding Ch.69 and the licence-free in Ch.70:- there are *not* intermodulation-free with each other and you normally lose as much as you gain. The only practical way to use both is to get a fixed-site (co-ordinated) licence for Ch.69 and have a special set of frequencies calculated using Ch.69 + 863-865MHz. I think you can squeeze 14 frequencies in here.

The 6 licence-free frequencies are *only* for Sennheiser G3 (not G2 nor G1) and are on the Sennheiser UK website.

I hope this helps.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

You can't skimp on radios!
Trantec do not cut the mustard.
Base level Sennys do.
If useing head mounts don't skimp either, cheap sounds cheap.
Radio is unreliable enough without £100 tx and nasty electrets.
Aim for the stars not the gutter.
There is NO "Rhode radio mic"

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I am the Walrus.