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Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: beatmunga]
      #789270 - 20/11/09 08:05 PM
the difference??

your posted "opinion" was, as usual, a direct "personal attack" on Hugh and his method of trying to get additional non verbal communication cues into his posting. to help people read between the lines... in place of vocal inflection and body language in a "conversation"


so , as such, got the response it deserved.



there are few people I have little or no time for.

welcome to that club.


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beatmunga



Joined: 25/02/06
Posts: 138
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #789272 - 20/11/09 08:15 PM
Quote idris y draig:

there are few people I have little or no time for.

welcome to that club.




Enough time to flatter me with a response...

Again!


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Kubi



Joined: 08/06/07
Posts: 2
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: qwertyqwerty]
      #789299 - 20/11/09 11:35 PM
I for one am happy to hear that the initial information (DP column being dropped entirely) was wrong and that we're looking merely at fewer instances of it. Thanks, Hugh, for your responses, and looking forward to many more useful articles on DP. Keep up the good work at SOS!



PS: DP7 in Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac is unbelievably good... the best DP yet!


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 20803
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: beatmunga]
      #789307 - 21/11/09 12:35 AM
Quote beatmunga:

Don't you like me or something..?




I imagine you already know the answer to that.

The difference, as if you didn't know, is that the former was expressing a constructive opinion about the magazine which is what this site is all about, while the latter was expressing an irrelevant opinion about me.

here's a litle set of appropriate graemlin because I know you like them so much



Hugh


--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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MOTUNATION.COM



Joined: 09/01/09
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
Re: SOS statement: - not ending Digital Performer Notes new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #789322 - 21/11/09 02:40 AM
Quote Forum Admin:

Sound On Sound would like to make it clear, in response to recent questions and speculation in this forum and others, that it has NOT discontinued its coverage of MOTU's Digital Performer software.




Right. We were talking specifically about the monthly column "Performer Notes." What about that? "Coverage" is different than the column.


Quote Forum Admin:

The DP technique column will therefore appear in future as one of the rotation columns and we are delighted to be able to confirm that it will continue to be written by Robin Bigwood.




By "DP technique column" do you mean Performer Notes? So you intended all along to keep it, just in less frequent rotation?

If this is true, I don't think you can fault DP user's for thinking otherwise when the only somewhat "official" information we had came from Robin himself. First on November 14th, from Robin's post at MOTU-MAC. [Emphasis mine]:

Quote:

Some of you have said very nice things over the years about Performer Notes, the DP tips and techniques column I've written in Sound on Sound magazine since 2001. So I'm sorry to pass on the sad news that it has now come to an end - the [u]last[/u] Performer Notes is published in the
current December 2009 edition
of Sound on Sound





Then Robin made a post to MOTUNATION at November 15. Here's part of that post [Emphasis mine]:

Quote:

However, let me say now that I can't participate in any efforts to re-instate the column. I respect SOS's decision (even if I didn't agree with it) and I know they didn't take it lightly. The editorial team, and my sub-editor in particular, have great integrity, and they went out of their way to lessen the impact on me personally (not that that's much consolation to everyone else, I know), and to not put the boot in by drawing attention to the fact that this month's [December] was the [u]last[/u] DP column. For my own part, I did try to [u]save[/u] PN, and mooted ideas of, say, a bi-monthly or quarterly column. As a freelance writer, though, I have zero leverage in editorial decisions, and I'm sure you'll all understand that I'm not going to do anything that will upset my ongoing working relationship with the magazine. It's my bread and butter after all.




I think it's clear from the above public statements from Robin himself, that SOS was cancelling Performer Notes. After all, you don't need to "re-instate" what is only be reduced to a less frequent schedule.

What I also don't understand is if SOS intended all along to simply publish Performer Notes less frequently, why does Robin say that he tried to "save" Performer Note by suggesting publishing Performer Notes bi-monthly or quarterly. Perhaps it was still under consideration and SOS only recently decided that, but it seems unambiguous that Performer Notes was cancelled.

If SOS's post now constitutes a recent incremental reversal, then that's welcome, but it seems clear that the claim that SOS never intended to eliminate Performer Notes conflicts with Robin's account of things. I think it's obvious now why DP users reached the conclusion SOS was canceling Performer Notes when its author states that it "has come to and end" and the "last" (not "last for now", but LAST as in Mohican!) Performer Notes will appear in the December issue.


Quote:

We intend to continue to give it appropriate coverage as we are sure that the barrage of vitriolic and abusive emails that the SOS editorial staff have received over the last few days is in no way representative of the views of the vast majority of Digital Performer users.




As I said at MOTUNATION, this last little bit is an accusation and a backhanded attack on DP users. I certainly don't condone "vitriolic and abusive" emails. I doubt DP users are any more or less abusive than users of other platforms in the population at large. Canceling a regular column pertaining one's DAW of choice is liable to provoke strong reaction of course. The abusiveness itself is in "no way representative" of the vast majority of Digital Performers. However, I am sure that the underlying sentiments, however (regretfully) crudely expressed by what I am sure is a minority of the users who wrote in, are INDEED representative.

Finally, I would like to say that I do not mean to quote Robin to cause him any problems with SOS. I am merely quoted what was stated in public. Robin has been quite careful not to take sides and been more than charitable toward SOS. Thanks.


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MOTUNATION.COM



Joined: 09/01/09
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Kubi]
      #789323 - 21/11/09 02:44 AM
Quote Kubi:

I for one am happy to hear that the initial information (DP column being dropped entirely) was wrong and that we're looking merely at fewer instances of it. Thanks, Hugh, for your responses, and looking forward to many more useful articles on DP. Keep up the good work at SOS!




See my latest post.

I too am glad that Performer Notes looks like it will not be dropped entirely. I need to catch up with the rest of the thread. I think the problem is that for some reason, Robin's initial public statements contradicts SOS's account that Performer Notes was never completely cancelled. Perhaps Robin got it wrong, but generally if something affects my paycheck (even as a freelancer) I tend to pay careful attention.

Either way, we'll see if there's actual follow through. To be on the safe side, I still intend not to renew in a couple of months. I will consider re-instating once I see one of these promised "less frequent" Performer Notes appear on SOS's pages.


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TBTS



Joined: 08/01/09
Posts: 546
Loc: London
Re: SOS statement: - not ending Digital Performer Notes new [Re: MOTUNATION.COM]
      #789478 - 21/11/09 11:48 AM
If you read Hugh's reply, he explained that Robin was somehow misinformed, and this has now been corrected.

--------------------
Apple Certified Technician + songwriter ** Shiny New Website with new music, videos etc... **
http://www.turnbacktospring.com


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qwertyqwerty



Joined: 14/11/09
Posts: 6
Re: SOS statement: - not ending Digital Performer Notes new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #789926 - 23/11/09 06:42 AM
Thank you ! I'd like to reiterate that I feel their is a similarity between Digital Performer, Macintosh and Sound on Sound. The three share high quality, eloquence , high price, and low market share. They are all well worth it to their users and they ought to support each other as much as possible. ~ Thanks. The new Digital Performer 7 Snow Leopard combination bodes well for the platform and the user. Please give it a good look and in doing so, most likely a good chance.





Quote Forum Admin:

Sound On Sound would like to make it clear, in response to recent questions and speculation in this forum and others, that it has NOT discontinued its coverage of MOTU's Digital Performer software.

We made no statement to that effect and that was never our intention.

For several years now we have run a series of monthly software workshops for Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer and Sonar, alongside bi-monthly or quarterly coverage for several of the other leading software recorders/sequencers. Recently, after a review of the relative user numbers for these packages, we decided that Propellerhead Software's Reason/Record programs now warranted monthly coverage, and reluctantly took the decision that Digital Performer should no longer be guaranteed a monthly slot. In an ideal world, we would have been able to keep both as monthly columns, but unfortunately we inhabit a world in which magazine pagination and editorial budgets cannot be infinitely large.

The DP technique column will therefore appear in future as one of the rotation columns and we are delighted to be able to confirm that it will continue to be written by Robin Bigwood. We will also continue to give full reviews to new versions of DP, MOTU hardware, and other MOTU instruments and plug-ins. Full details of this adjustment were communicated to MOTU themselves well in advance.

Digital Performer remains a significant DAW with an influential professional user-base and Sound On Sound has, we believe, served it well, with over eight years worth of dedicated monthly technique columns (see <a href="/articles/DigitalPerformer.php" target="_blank">http://www.soundonsound.com/articles/DigitalPerformer.php</a> ).</a> We intend to continue to give it appropriate coverage as we are sure that the barrage of vitriolic and abusive emails that the SOS editorial staff have received over the last few days is in no way representative of the views of the vast majority of Digital Performer users.




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jayzed
member


Joined: 19/03/04
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Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: qwertyqwerty]
      #789932 - 23/11/09 08:14 AM
I'd always assumed SOS had high market share.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 20803
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: jayzed]
      #789992 - 23/11/09 11:35 AM
It does. It is by far the best selling english language music technology magazine in the world.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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qwertyqwerty



Joined: 14/11/09
Posts: 6
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #790119 - 23/11/09 04:30 PM
Ooop sorry. Around here, I don't know many who buy it and it usually languishes on the shelves. It just goes to show that what we think is clearly true everywhere, "ain't necessarily so"



Quote Hugh Robjohns:

It does. It is by far the best selling english language music technology magazine in the world.

Hugh




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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 20803
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: qwertyqwerty]
      #790135 - 23/11/09 05:00 PM
Quote qwertyqwerty:

Around here




Am I right in thinking 'around here' is Canada?

Quote:

I don't know many who buy it and it usually languishes on the shelves.




That's surprising. Most people complain that it doesn't stay on the shelves long enough to buy it!

What do people temd to read for music technology information/advice where you are?

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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qwertyqwerty



Joined: 14/11/09
Posts: 6
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #790310 - 24/11/09 02:23 AM
Canada's right but its a big place. I see Recording, Keyboard, and Mix available and "moving" in more places than SOS although I find SOS to be the all around superior periodical. There are some fine in depth bits in MIX but in general, I learn more from SOS and enjoy the experience more. The other two feel a bit lightweight to me and perhaps that is why they are more common and seem to move faster. I might be totally wrong about all of this... just a perception. BUT I still stand by my perception that there is a great and good similarity between SOS and DP.


Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote qwertyqwerty:

Around here




Am I right in thinking 'around here' is Canada?




Hugh




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s_e_a_n
member


Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 128
Loc: Kerry
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: qwertyqwerty]
      #790419 - 24/11/09 11:48 AM
I would agree with qwertyqwerty, I see SOS as a serious magazine for serious engineers and musicians. In this day and age when everyone seems to have a bedroom studio it might seem that the target market should be dumbed down to hit a bigger audience but I would argue that the reason why SOS is such a successful magazine is that it still contains articles with real substance. I still use Digital Performer because of its 'real substance' as well. I have Logic and use it sometimes as a quick 'sketchbook' type app for song composition but if I need depth I will always go back to DP. Whatever happens to DP Notes, please don't just chase market share as this is only a short term strategy which I believe will lose us a GREAT magazine in the long term. By all means include 'bait' articles like the User CDs section to draw in new users but please don't drop too much of the bread and butter stuff. The SOS formula has worked extremely well for a couple of decades or more and I hope it continues for at least a couple of decades more.
Just my 2c worth.

--------------------
iMac 27", DP 7.2, Melodyne CRE8, Motu 828mk2


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


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Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: s_e_a_n]
      #790451 - 24/11/09 12:27 PM
Quote s_e_a_n:

I would agree with qwertyqwerty, I see SOS as a serious magazine for serious engineers and musicians.




It's an interesting perception, and one I'm sure we're glad to be associated with, but that was never the intention of SOS, nor the market it is actually aimed at.

SOS was always designed for the home studio/project studio market, and it continues to be focused primarily on that area -- as the bulk of the reviews and other content clearly indicates.

However, we know that a great many professional engineers, producers and musicians do read the magazine regularly and that's great too.

I think it comes down partly to the fact that we have always aimed not to 'dumb down' articles if we can avoid it. We try to make sure there is something in every article for people of all ability and experience levels. Plus the fact that today's project-studio equipment is often on a par with previous high-end studio equipment and so of interest to many professionals.

Quote:

I would argue that the reason why SOS is such a successful magazine is that it still contains articles with real substance.




Absolutely.

Quote:

... please don't just chase market share as this is only a short term strategy which I believe will lose us a GREAT magazine in the long term.




It's not a case of chasing market share -- SOS already dominates the competition (both project and pro market magazines) in the english-speaking world and has done for a considerable time. There's no room for complaceny, obviously -- it remains a very competitive industry -- and I'm sure we will continue in the same vein that has kept us at the top for the last 25 years.

Quote:

The SOS formula has worked extremely well for a couple of decades or more and I hope it continues for at least a couple of decades more.




And so say all of us!

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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qwertyqwerty



Joined: 14/11/09
Posts: 6
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #790517 - 24/11/09 02:29 PM
Cool !


Quote Hugh Robjohns:


I think it comes down partly to the fact that we have always aimed not to 'dumb down' articles if we can avoid it. We try to make sure there is something in every article for people of all ability and experience levels. Plus the fact that today's project-studio equipment is often on a par with previous high-end studio equipment and so of interest to many professionals.

----snip----
Quote:

The SOS formula has worked extremely well for a couple of decades or more and I hope it continues for at least a couple of decades more.




And so say all of us!

hugh




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Raphael DeGiorgio



Joined: 29/03/08
Posts: 2
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #792378 - 30/11/09 10:12 PM
Keep the DP notes coming!! Thanks!!


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Forum AdminAdministrator



Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 2311
Loc: Cambridge
Re: Nope... NOT Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Raphael DeGiorgio]
      #792751 - 01/12/09 10:24 PM
Quote Raphael DeGiorgio:

Keep the DP notes coming!! Thanks!!




We will... it's in the February 2010 issue out at the end of January.

Ian G

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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Peddler
new member


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Re: SOS statement: - not ending Digital Performer Notes new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #796593 - 16/12/09 06:52 PM
I have read most if not all of the posts from disgruntled DP users who argue that SOS are wrong to reduce the number of Digital Performer Notes. I don't want to be involved in the politics behind the reasons/counter arguements/backbiting which seems to have gone on.

I just want to put my own point of view. It looks as though, as a DP user, I am in a minority group as far as SOS is concerned; so be it. However, I think it's safe to say that DP is generally regarded as a mainstream application, used predominantly by people who appreciate it's capabilities, depth and user friendliness, and it's ability to allow them to work and deliver at a professional level. That is how I personally see DP; and if SOS are giving it less coverage then I DO NOT LIKE IT and will be waiting to see whether it warrants cancelling my subscription. I believe that a reduction in DP Notes are SOS's and their readership's loss rather than mine; I don't rely on DP Notes although I enjoy them. I also wonder if this is the thin edge of the wedge.


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timv



Joined: 24/01/07
Posts: 2
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #798533 - 25/12/09 03:59 PM
Hi all and Hugh

I didn't read all this thread but I came to it to just post my vote of endorsement for DP notes.

I was very disappointed to hear at motu-mac that it had been dropped but really glad to see that it has been at least partially reinstated.

I love the mag and have subscribed for a number of years. The Dp notes have been pretty much always the first thing I go to when each new issue arrives. Robin's articles and great insights into my number one application have been really excellent and I'm stoked that he'll continue to write for SOS.

Thanks a lot ....


Is there no chance we can get back to every month?

Pretty pretty please

Merry Xmas and peace to all


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guitargaz
new member


Joined: 22/07/03
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Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #799508 - 30/12/09 04:11 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:



Quote:

My point is that any of these features could be dropped without harming the magazine




... in your opinion based on your personal perspective, reflecting your own interests and preferences. The view of others many vary somewhat! Well over 30,000 people read the magazine every month while we've heard from around 40 disgruntled DP users here and via emails. We don't get floods of letters from people demanding we drop the reader CD reviews, or any of the other sections you've highlighted... so there's a pretty good chance that a fair proportion of those 30k+ readers actually like them. Certainly that's the feedback I've received personally at trade shows and other events I attend over the year.

Hugh




A flaw here - you really don't know if people like or want these articles and yet you use a survey to say they don't want a regular DP notes column. So 40 or so people have complained - but because 30,000 have not, you justify your decision to remove DP notes and keep these sections of the magazine.

I think my point was that there is some complacency in your magazine - you need to look at the standard of the CD section including the actual reviews which help nobody, and some of the other regulars such as Notes from the Deadline which are pretty useless as a regular feature - it seems dashed off in a hurry in a "that will do" fashion to fill the space. And the Guitar section really is an anomaly and at times scrapes the barrel - by all means review new technology for studio use that may be aimed directly at guitarists - but a silly section like this looks half baked. You could drop any of these and make it a better magazine - room for DP notes to be re-instated. I don't use Cubase or Logic or Sonar but I rejoice that you have a regular column for them - so DP notes at the expense of Notes from the Deadline or readers CD's seems to this reader somewhat complacent. Do a survey on those items and see if people would rather keep them than their own software notes.

The Mix Rescue and Studio SOS are rightly popular and I enjoy reading them - but lets face it there is an element of turd polishing in all of this. Yes there is more mediocre music being made and it does prove that good music shines through even if the drum sound is not quite right. So in a sense the Mix Rescue section is valuable for reasons opposite of what was intended! My opinion of course.

Losing DP notes is not the end of the world but it is sad for your magazine - I will look at the Feb edition and decide whether to continue with my subscription (which was in question before the DP notes thing happened) - certainly my feeling has been that editorially you have lost your way in the last 2 years in terms of the balance of articles and the poor quality of some - the lack of competition has not helped you.

I just think your survey method was flawed and you have missed some aspects of the magazine which actually reduce its overall quality. I have been reading it since 1989 so I do know what I am talking about - in my opinion of course. Generally when I speak it is based on my personal perspective and reflecting my own interests and preferences - but thanks for pointing this out to me.

--------------------
Guitar Gaz


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MidiMonk



Joined: 22/07/06
Posts: 3
Re: What? Ending Digital Performer Notes? !!! [Re: qwertyqwerty]
      #828864 - 22/04/10 01:15 PM

Great to see the DP notes will stick around, with no demo its the only way to get a real overview of its features.

The Motunation crowd on the other hand are a bit much...


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