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ROLO46



Joined: 29/11/07
Posts: 1204
Loc: Cotswolds
Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music
      #830979 - 03/05/10 09:56 AM
Have a gig upcoming, recording tabla and slide gtr 'in concert'
Sound reinforcement needed
Its a lively domed room
The suggestion is to use a Bose line array L1 compact
I was thinking of a central site behind the performers, feeding via my mixer 2 Senn MKH 40's to my recorder (a Sound Devices 702) and the Bose.
This would give a good central image but might howl quickly ,though the Bose prob has lots of DSP.
We have a nice pair of Active PMC TB2A's ,I was thinking of using these as side fillS,again low level.
Any thoughts
Im PA illiterate.
Budget, none.
Audience 100+


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I am the Walrus.


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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3068
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #830985 - 03/05/10 10:15 AM
Unless the spec says otherwise, and if the room is live, which it appears to be, then I'd say you only require very minimal sound amplification. In addition I would doubt the musicians need any monitoring, and would question why they would if they ask for it!

I guess you only have one Bose L1 (which I haven't used myself), which is why you're proposing to put this behind the musicians, but that will lead to 'speaker' bleed into the MKH40s, which is probably not what you want for the recording, as well as the potential for feedback.

My inclination, would be to use the TB2A's as low level FOH amplification, either side and a little in front of the performers, should be a nice sound.

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz


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ROLO46



Joined: 29/11/07
Posts: 1204
Loc: Cotswolds
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #831018 - 03/05/10 01:44 PM
Just played with the Bose L1 II with sep bass module and mixer/dsp
There must be plenty of processing going on cos it wasn't howling with a SM 58 up close to the line array.
Quite impressed
The idea of a central position is to reinforce the real acoustic image.The dispersion is good ,so I may place it back to the wall and put the performers well in front,angled to look at one another to enable the MKH40's to be backed off to the array ,limit bleed and howl.
There is comprehensive eq on dsp mixer, haven't tried this yet.

All this will change on the night, Im sure
Unsure wether to send channel outs/ aux outs/or monitor outs to Bose
Might want to use my aux outs.
Mixer is Sonosax SX6


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I am the Walrus.


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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3068
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #831081 - 03/05/10 08:38 PM
OK, I'm just not familiar with the L1. Feedback sounds like it won't be an issue, so the main thing to look out for is how the L1 will effect the recorded sound. Is it using out of phase trickery? How would this effect the recorded sound? All conjecture I'm sorry.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10652
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #831194 - 04/05/10 11:58 AM
I used an L1 (as a performer and listener rather than engineer) this weekend. The L1 was behind the performers so that we didn't need monitors. It sounded good although the top end was rather harsh. There were a few hints of feedback but nothing serious.

Is the slide guitar acoustic? How well do the performers balance themselves acoustically?

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
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ROLO46



Joined: 29/11/07
Posts: 1204
Loc: Cotswolds
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #831200 - 04/05/10 12:18 PM
Its all acoustic

Normally I would have MS'd it (OMNI AND 8)
But 'cos of PA will cardioid it to reduce howl chances, either Senn Or Schoepps.
But not coincident or ORTF
Close capture
Haven't seen the venue yet,has curious dome ,which gives great ambiance, they say.



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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3068
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #831350 - 05/05/10 04:46 AM
Just a thought. I did sound for a concert recently that included tabla (as well as many other instruments). We also recorded it, supposedly for archival use, but the performers were very pleased with the result and it looks like we'll release it commercially. Had I known this I'd have placed a little more emphasis on optimum mics and positioning for the recorded sound. One option I would have liked would have been to have a little stereo imaging on the tabla. As it turned out I had sufficient ambient sound to provide an interesting sound stage but it's nice to have the option at mix-down!

The moral of the story is to treat every recording as though it will be released commercially!

Cheers

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz


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ROLO46



Joined: 29/11/07
Posts: 1204
Loc: Cotswolds
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #835112 - 22/05/10 09:25 AM
Have recced the venue

A 80' square room with a domed window light in the middle,10' ceiling

A clattery artificial wood floor

Horrible confused acoustic under dome

Ping pong flutter from the walls, horrible.

Now the artist has been refused an entry visa, perhaps a blessing in disguise.

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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3068
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #835118 - 22/05/10 10:15 AM
Eeeeh lad, that's nothing. When I were young, we used to have to record whole symphony orchestras in a shoe box, and had to engrave the CDs by hand, using a blunt pencil, on a jam jar lid.

Recording non-existent musicians in a live venue, well that's easy

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 3988
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: Bob Bickerton]
      #835143 - 22/05/10 03:29 PM
Quote Bob Bickerton:

....and had to engrave the CDs by hand, using a blunt pencil, on a jam jar lid.





Vinyl?

Seablade


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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3068
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: seablade]
      #835183 - 22/05/10 09:21 PM
Quote seablade:

Quote Bob Bickerton:

....and had to engrave the CDs by hand, using a blunt pencil, on a jam jar lid.





Vinyl?

Seablade




Wax-cylinder?

Bob

(joking of course, I'm not that old!)

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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 3988
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: Bob Bickerton]
      #835204 - 23/05/10 02:34 AM
Quote Bob Bickerton:

Quote seablade:

Quote Bob Bickerton:

....and had to engrave the CDs by hand, using a blunt pencil, on a jam jar lid.





Vinyl?

Seablade




Wax-cylinder?

Bob

(joking of course, I'm not that old!)




Hey I was going for the shape;)

Seablade


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4339
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: Sound Reinforcement ,Indian Classical music new [Re: ROLO46]
      #835220 - 23/05/10 09:24 AM
A room like that with tabla ... Yuk! Maybe best bet is to use the Bose just for the guitar (has it a pickup?) to reduce recycled reflections from the tabla.
Close mic the tabla and guitar, and use a stereo mic array (fig 8s?) as well, for the recording.

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Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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