Ive used Cubase for many years (SX3) but never really got on too well - After the Reaper Article in SOS (A good few issues back) I tried it - bought a licence and absolutely adore it today, everything works like a dream! Unlike Cubase!. My point is this, A couple of weeks back a band came to me to ask about my services etc. they asked if i use Pro Tools? i said no I use a little Gem of a Sequencer called Reaper -Immediately their face lost all expression! I tried to educate him with the reasons i choose Reaper over other Sequencers but to be honest i sensed he realy didnt know what i was talking about and as far as he was concerned if you dont use Cubase or Pro Tools your not really that serious about recording. This was a band looking for their first Demo CD to secure a few more gigs. I have a friend who uses Cubase and no matter how many times i try to show him how Brilliant Reaper is he wont even consider it, He's still on Cubase SX3!!)

What is it that PRo-Tools or Cubase can do that Reaper Cant

Reaper:

a. Cheap as chips (€60 for non cemmercial licence)
b. Great GUI
c. So easy to use
d. Bug free
e. Most of the features of the more expensive Sequencers (that ill ever require)
f. A helpfull Forum
g. Completely MOD firendly.


Etc etc.

--------------------
Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

its human nature, i think, to be wary of things that don't cost alot of money..

its sad, really, because, REAPER, is, bar none, the best, most worth the money piece of software, i've ever spent money on.

i was guilty of it myself, concerning the secondary schools i had to choose from. the provincial community college was 1/3 the price i paid to go to a privately owned college, and, hindsight being 20/20, was by far the better deal, with better job prospects and everything.

the 21st century and its economy, is a wild one, thats for sure..

does an apple taste better because it cost 1 dollar more then the other apples?

i dont think so..but, i will always wonder..

pacem

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music is my girlfriend

sequencers are just tools. there's nothing wrong with using REAPER if that's what you like, nor Cubase if that's what you prefer.

there is such a thing as inverse snobbery. Pro Tools and Cubase have areas where they are better than REAPER. as do all other DAWs. they each have their strengths and weaknesses - that's why there's more than one on the market.

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

If anyone's really that ignorant maybe you don't need them mucking about in your studio. These days even guys in the darkest dungeons know what software does what.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Don't tell them what you use in future. Let the work you have done previously speak for itself.

Arrange with Mike Senior that the next band you record using Cubase can get a profile-raising Mix Rescue in SoS (That's not a slight on your abilities). I suggest it only because you can say, with as straight a face as possible:

"Yes, this really skilled guy will add that extra 10% of magic...using Reaper"

Reaper is a marvellous piece of kit. The only realistic issue to be raised is the dominance of PT in the pro studio world, where a DAW session may one day end up. These guys do not sound like they appreciate that point.

Quote onesecondglance:

---

sequencers are just tools. there's nothing wrong with using REAPER if that's what you like, nor Cubase if that's what you prefer.

there is such a thing as inverse snobbery. Pro Tools and Cubase have areas where they are better than REAPER. as do all other DAWs. they each have their strengths and weaknesses - that's why there's more than one on the market.

---

OK, Reaper doesnt have a Wave Editor. But in what other areas is it Stronger? Genuinley interested!

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Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote Jfin:

---

Quote onesecondglance:

---

sequencers are just tools. there's nothing wrong with using REAPER if that's what you like, nor Cubase if that's what you prefer.

there is such a thing as inverse snobbery. Pro Tools and Cubase have areas where they are better than REAPER. as do all other DAWs. they each have their strengths and weaknesses - that's why there's more than one on the market.

---

OK, Reaper doesnt have a Wave Editor. But in what other areas is it Stronger? Genuinley interested!

---

Sorry i Meant to say what are Reapers weak points

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Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote Darren Lynch:

---

Arrange with Mike Senior that the next band you record using Cubase can get a profile-raising Mix Rescue in SoS (That's not a slight on your abilities). I suggest it only because you can say, with as straight a face as possible:

"Yes, this really skilled guy will add that extra 10% of magic...using Reaper"

Reaper is a marvellous piece of kit. The only realistic issue to be raised is the dominance of PT in the pro studio world, where a DAW session may one day end up. These guys do not sound like they appreciate that point.

---

I like it!! I was delighted to see Mike Senior using Reaper, Couldnt wait to show my mate the front cover with Reaper plastered across!!

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Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote Mowens800:

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Don't tell them what you use in future. Let the work you have done previously speak for itself.

---

Thats the thing - i offered to give him a CD of my recordings....Never heard from him again!

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Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote jammy jamz:

---

does an apple taste better because it cost 1 dollar more then the other apples?

i dont think so..but, i will always wonder..

pacem

---

Yep 100% Agree and guilty myself! In the hardware world definately in most cases pay more = Get more and lasts longer, Software world seems to be less and less the case these days (VST's are good example)

--------------------
Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote Jfin:

---

Ive used Cubase for many years (SX3) but never really got on too well - After the Reaper Article in SOS (A good few issues back) I tried it - bought a licence and absolutely adore it today, everything works like a dream! Unlike Cubase!. My point is this, A couple of weeks back a band came to me to ask about my services etc. they asked if i use Pro Tools? i said no I use a little Gem of a Sequencer called Reaper -Immediately their face lost all expression! I tried to educate him with the reasons i choose Reaper over other Sequencers but to be honest i sensed he realy didnt know what i was talking about and as far as he was concerned if you dont use Cubase or Pro Tools your not really that serious about recording. This was a band looking for their first Demo CD to secure a few more gigs. I have a friend who uses Cubase and no matter how many times i try to show him how Brilliant Reaper is he wont even consider it, He's still on Cubase SX3!!)

What is it that PRo-Tools or Cubase can do that Reaper Cant

Reaper:

a. Cheap as chips (€60 for non cemmercial licence)
b. Great GUI
c. So easy to use
d. Bug free
e. Most of the features of the more expensive Sequencers (that ill ever require)
f. A helpfull Forum
g. Completely MOD firendly.


Etc etc.

---

Yeah but the preachy tone of reaper fans is a bit off-putting. I don't care whether other people use the sequencers I use or not, really.

Give them two quotes, one if they want you to use pro tools and one for Reaper. If they want to know why the Reaper quote is cheaper then you can start to explain.

For me offline render speed is a life saver. Pro Tools may well do this these days, but even so, factor in the cost of a Pro Tools Rig (and by that I mean the real thing, not the LE version) and then see if they have a serious budget.

Frankly I suspect you may well have had a lucky escape. I lose track of the amount of times people say something sounds better, or worse, when I've not actually done anything to affect a mix or track.

- Joe -
Rockrooms Studio

hi Jfin, perhaps you should not have called it a 'sequencer'.

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.. is this thing on?

Edited by Stan (25/05/10 04:20 PM)

Quote Jfin:

---

My point is this, A couple of weeks back a band came to me to ask about my services etc. they asked if i use Pro Tools? i said no I use a little Gem of a Sequencer called Reaper -Immediately their face lost all expression!

---

Seriously there's no need to validate why you use Reaper to us here or anyone else that knows their DAW software including a 'band' of some kind because we know how bloody good Reaper is.

Personally I wouldn't be that bothered cause this "band" walked away due to the software you use, nothing else.

It makes the said "'band'" either wet behind the ears, arrogant or plain ignorant.

Cheers.

Quote Jfin:

---

A couple of weeks back a band came to me to ask about my services etc. they asked if i use Pro Tools?

---

You should have said "yeah of course mate, all my tools are professional, like init"

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PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

haahaha some gems of replys in this thread..

but, my favorite is when i explain to people how to download REAPER.

"go to cockos.com.... etc..." thats when i like to watch thier faces..

so great.

but, i have to agree, if they're put off with what DAW you use, or dont use, i imagine, they might be a little hard to work with.. like it doesnt occur to them how much money you have invested in cables alone, let alone microphones, and etc etc etc..

some guy balked at my price of SIXTY DOLLARS for four hours the other day...to track two folk songs with just 1 accoustic gtr, and 1 or 2 voices..with a quick mix to send him on his way with....

sixty bucks is too much, he said.. i told him to go somewhere else, or learn to track it himself..



--------------------
music is my girlfriend

Of course Reaper has such good skinning features that you could probably make it look rather like Pro Tools if needed


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

Quote Jfin:

---

OK, Reaper doesnt have a Wave Editor. But in what other areas is it Stronger / weaker? Genuinley interested!

---

well, for a start it doesn't have a score editor for MIDI. that's a definite gap for me. and that's the thing. for you that's probably not important. for thousands others too. but for me and a fair few others, it's enough to make Cubase or Logic or something else the right choice other than REAPER. you could probably find a thousand other little things like that which are the reasons other people don't use it.

i do use REAPER and have done for about two years now. i used to follow the development quite closely, but in the end i just find i have better workflow in Cubase. i've been using that for around 14 years now so that's not surprising. nor is it REAPER's "fault".

Quote Remeniz:

---

Seriously there's no need to validate why you use Reaper to us here or anyone else that knows their DAW software including a 'band' of some kind because we know how bloody good Reaper is.

---

precisely. REAPER's great. but it's not for everyone. and the fervent hype that gets spread around doesn't actually endear either the app or the REAPER community to a fair number of people.

as for the band themselves... they're probably only asking for "Pro Tools" because the trademark has almost become genericised. "Pro Tools" is digital recording to a great deal of people outside engineers. just tell them that you do have Pro Tools next time and they'd most likely be none the wiser.

--------------------
hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote:

---

just tell them that you do have Pro Tools next time and they'd most likely be none the wiser.

---

Nice idea but in all probability it wouldn't work because the guy that asked for PT has probably tried PT LE and wants to tell the "engineer" how to use it...

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Not being able quite yet to afford Logic, I've been messing with Reaper, and I gotta say, I love it. Only one problem, at some point I project using it to work with Orthodox Jewish musicians, and well,,, it's called reaper,,, with a big sickle icon... LOL I actually worry about these things, though not too much.

BTW Tex your signature has me LOL. So perfect for this forum

--------------------
Gear list: If you can't find it, grind it

Quote Jfin:

---

OK, Reaper doesnt have a Wave Editor. But in what other areas is it Stronger? Genuinley interested!

---

Last time I looked it didn't have anything as powerful as the logical editor for editing midi. Which wouldn't bother me if I didn't use Cubase for writing tunes.

--------------------
"To upgrade a computer, physically hardwarewise, is easier than making a lego dog kennel." Tex

Quote tex:

---

Quote:

---

just tell them that you do have Pro Tools next time and they'd most likely be none the wiser.

---

Nice idea but in all probability it wouldn't work because the guy that asked for PT has probably tried PT LE and wants to tell the "engineer" how to use it...

---

--------------------
hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote robinv:

---

Quote Jfin:

---

A couple of weeks back a band came to me to ask about my services etc. they asked if i use Pro Tools?

---

You should have said "yeah of course mate, all my tools are professional, like init"

---

Haha.... i love it!

--------------------
Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Quote jammy jamz:

---

some guy balked at my price of SIXTY DOLLARS for four hours the other day...to track two folk songs with just 1 accoustic gtr, and 1 or 2 voices..with a quick mix to send him on his way with....

sixty bucks is too much, he said.. i told him to go somewhere else, or learn to track it himself..

---

I had a similar experiance €100 for 8 hours full band recording 4 tracks. A brickies labourer wouldnt get out of bed for that kind of money - and they didnt need to spend thousands on recording gear!!

A studio close to me is offering a full days recording + guaranteed gigs in most pubs and clubs (they have most of the contracts) for €300 - how can i compete with that?

--------------------
Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Your preference for Reaper is fine. Your inability to "get on" with Cubase is a bit of a worry. Anything you can do in Reaper, you can do in Cubase. If it impresses a client, WTF, use Cubase.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

---

Your preference for Reaper is fine. Your inability to "get on" with Cubase is a bit of a worry. Anything you can do in Reaper, you can do in Cubase. If it impresses a client, WTF, use Cubase.

---

each time i went to use cubase my controllers would need to be re- configured for some reason and my sound card would sometimes forget it had another 14 tracks, - tried Reaper one day spent about 20 mins seting up everything, Reaper recognises both BCF2000 each time i open my template everything works as it should without the grey hair, it was love at first sight!!

--------------------
Behringer BCF2000 x2, Echo LAYLA 3G,Behringer ADA8000, BEHRINGER U-Control UMX 25, Shure SM58 LC SM57 Beta, RODE M3,Behringer Amp 800, SAMSON 7KIT DRUMSET mic,

Wish Reaper would work for me - first time out it crashed (Cubase SX1/2 and am now on 3 didn't) and for the love of Mary I simply cannot figure out the MIDI in Reaper, in theory it is there, simple enough to set up.

I select the inputs and outputs, looks pretty - but it don't work!!! Cubase does - end of! and I have tried several times to get the Reaper MIDI working as easily as it does with Cubase and my control surface, which a Tascam DM24 mixer which had a HUI emulation for Cubase, copied the file across and easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy I press the transport buttons on the DM24 and it sure enough works a treat, it doesn't in Reaper. The templates in Cubase work fine for me - I must be lucky with Cubase and unlucky with Reaper. I have given up on it and it has to be admitted, the Reaperites get quite 'precious' about it zzzzzzzzzz! Where do yo see Cubasers continually making disparaging remarks about Reaper so frequently as you do the Reapers make comparisons with Cubase - think the snobbery is on the other boot!

Each to their own isn't it, I don't and wouldn't have a studio, but have been in more than I care to think of and can never recall a single time when someone got huffy about what software was used except from passing curiosity. Almost everyone went by what their ears told them and almost every musician I came across couldn't give hoot what was being used as long as it worked and represented their music well to expectations or better still exceeding them. After all, which 'sound's better, Reaper, Cubase, Record, Logic, Prootols? I think it is more down to the operator/mixer/producer irrespective of the software.

heya OneWorld..

not to be all "reaperite", , but, did you disable the MSwavetable or wahtever the generic microsoft midi device is, in the control panel, in preferences? only enable the in and outs of your device..thats what i have to manually do sometimes.. specially if i've installed a new software synth, or something like that.

because, for some reason, sometimes mine mysteriously becomes re-enabled, and that can reek havoc on my controller. and crash out my system..

but, cubase, before my HDD crash, was working splendidly. i was (actually had to, because of time constraints) converted to REAPER, when i was sent on the syncrosoft re-register circle..i couldnt put up with the "this copy is already registered" circle..

but, admittedly it was the LE version..so..yeah..

i do love my REAPER tho..

--------------------
music is my girlfriend

I'm afraid I am a snob in a way. I still see PTHD as a badge of honour (providing you can use it properly), showing you are serious enough to spend big bucks for those small plusses that other DAWs lack. I have used the rest and to me operationally there is one big difference:

*Cubase/Reaper/Logic are sequencers with tape machines attached.

*ProTools is a tape machine with a sequencer attached.



I would however argue with anyone who says you can't get professional results with the other DAWs and I should hope that it's known to all that "it's not what you use, it's how you use it".

(But maybe the Mrs. just says that to make me feel better...)



In summary: I am in two minds.



--------------------
11011110110010101111 - 110000001111111111101110 - 101110101101
Hexadecimal binary coding anyone?

Quote jammy jamz:

---

heya OneWorld..

not to be all "reaperite", , but, did you disable the MSwavetable or wahtever the generic microsoft midi device is, in the control panel, in preferences? only enable the in and outs of your device..thats what i have to manually do sometimes.. specially if i've installed a new software synth, or something like that.

because, for some reason, sometimes mine mysteriously becomes re-enabled, and that can reek havoc on my controller. and crash out my system..

but, cubase, before my HDD crash, was working splendidly. i was (actually had to, because of time constraints) converted to REAPER, when i was sent on the syncrosoft re-register circle..i couldnt put up with the "this copy is already registered" circle..

but, admittedly it was the LE version..so..yeah..

i do love my REAPER tho..

---

Thanks Jimmy,

Am sure I did disable the Microsft thingy, in fact I do that in the basic Windows Sound Applet anyway.

But whether or not, I always disable it in Cubase, and the MIDI setup in Reaper while not as apparent as in Cubase but is easy enough, as regards enabling or disabling MIDI i/o.

And if I remember rightly there is a MIDI activity light like there is in Cubase which shows activity when I press a key on my synth - but simply cannot get any sound out.

It is as if....hmmmm.....just thought......where is the MIDI Thru/Echo on Reaper? It might be that.

As it seems I am getting a MIDI massage getting into Reaper as the Activity light shows, but maybe there is a logical connection needs to be made inside of Reaper.

Now in Cubase it is so easy, the MIDI device is installed in Device Manager manager, then all MIDI devices show in the track inspector and that's that - it works, and of course there are also the MIDI Instrument Patch names which show the actual patches for the synth.

I seem to remember I had similar problems way back when Logic was on the PC. I did finally get it working but could only ever get the GM Soundset, which depending on which synth I use is even naffer than my own pathces!

I never had any problem with the syncrosoft dongle, though it is the full version of Cubase I have. In fact I have Gigastudio GVI, Hypersonic, Virtual Guitar as well and no matter how many machine changes, hard drives I have made, I plug the dongle in and off it goes am up and running in minutes. And I've learnt to copy the Steinberg settings from Documents & Settings to the new hard drive.

When Syncrosoft has asked for an internet connection it is to update the license. In fact when I bought Hypersonic, it came with it's own dongle. I installed the software and a message popped up asking if I want the license transferring to the existing dongle and it did it no problem at all. Seems it's different with the LE version

I'll have a go with the Microsfot disabling in Reaper and have another go - just out of curiosity. And of course one redeeming feature about Reaper is that it will run from a USB key! So I would be glad to get it going as I have a laptop with an inbuilt firewire interface and I have a Profire 2626, so with Reaper installed on that laptop, I have a portable recording setup!

Thanks

www.myspace.com/mikespost

Quote MadManDan:

---

...Only one problem, at some point I project using it to work with Orthodox Jewish musicians, and well,,, it's called reaper,,, with a big sickle icon... LOL I actually worry about these things, though not too much.

---

But that's what you reap with, a sickle or a scythe. Do Orthodox Jewish musicians use kosher toothbrushes instead???

It bores me how people presume the grim bloke with the unpleasant job is the only one to know how to swing a blade. Come one, it's a bit stale and narrowly stereotyped.

I think it has great irony -in recording you reap what you sow, no fixing it in the mix

Yes I really DO know how to use one (well I am from Lincolnshire).

>

--------------------
planet nine
lincoln, uk.

Quote Freuman:

---

I'm afraid I am a snob in a way. I still see PTHD as a badge of honour (providing you can use it properly), showing you are serious enough to spend big bucks for those small plusses that other DAWs lack. I have used the rest and to me operationally there is one big difference:

*Cubase/Reaper/Logic are sequencers with tape machines attached.

*ProTools is a tape machine with a sequencer attached.

---

heh and an ignorant snob too LOL

REAPER was designed first as a multitrack recording application and did not have any MIDI sequencing in its first incarnations. MIDI came later, and is actually trying to play catch-up to the audio capabilities (much the same as PTHD some years ago, non?)

no offence intended

>

--------------------
planet nine
lincoln, uk.

Quote Nathan:

---

Do Orthodox Jewish musicians use kosher toothbrushes instead???

---

Actually, on the Sabbath, they do! I know what you mean, though, about reaping what you sow

--------------------
Gear list: If you can't find it, grind it

heh, bloody townies thinking only mythological creatures use a scythe...

I get bored with the tedious DAW debate sometimes, it's really such a small investment, relatively speaking, to the rest of any reasonable studio. Use whatever does the job and you get on with. And don't listen to sodding musos who think the logo on your bytes makes them sound better.

PS I use REAPER because I got annoyed with the limitations on PTLE (24 or 32 voices back then, no ADC, tied to specific hardware...) -and it does everything I need it to in a very stable manner (no crashes in several thousand hours now), with a very responsive online community to help out if needed. That's all that matters to me, I'm a professional -it does the job.

Maybe the band were more worried you were going to record a paid job on a non-comm license JFin!

>

ps Dan, they wouldn't be kosher if they were used for reaping, surely. What a world...

--------------------
planet nine
lincoln, uk.

Edited by Nathan (26/05/10 11:47 PM)

well, the light flahsing means shes getting the info so the device is recognized...

so, if i were to guess..

1. in options -> preferences -> Midi Devices.. here is where you disable the GS Wavetable synth in Reaper...and enable your device..

2. arm track, and be sure to pick midi in, in the drop down of the armed track to tell it to listen to the midi device coming in through the sound card.

3. insert your vst synth, or drum machine into the fx of the armed track.

4. click on the monitor button, so that you can -uhm- monitor it..


and badaboom...there should be the sounds at your fingertips..

i hope this helps...

im not much of a midi editor, i just track the sounds like a normal instrument, but, i guess the latest incantations of REAPER are getting very good at editing midi data as well..

ps. this was all from memory, so, i mighta flubbed a bit, but, the general just of the workflow is there...

pacem

--------------------
music is my girlfriend

Quote Nathan:

---

heh and an ignorant snob too LOL

REAPER was designed first as a multitrack recording application and did not have any MIDI sequencing in its first incarnations. MIDI came later, and is actually trying to play catch-up to the audio capabilities (much the same as PTHD some years ago, non?)

no offence intended

>

---

That's ok, I don't mind being mocked when I deserve it! I hadn't realised, having only used Reaper twice in my life (and never trying to learn it much) I shouldn't have speculated!

My point remains for the other sequencers though!

Personally, I find the name, "Reaper" pretty off putting. Clearly it is loved by many, but really not sure about that name!

Quote Aftertouch:

---

Personally, I find the name, "Reaper" pretty off putting. Clearly it is loved by many, but really not sure about that name!

---

Reaper is a bad name.

"Cockos" is an appalling name! Sounds like something a 1st year student would come up with. It makes you think, if they are totally unaware of what a truly terrible name that is, can you really put any faith in their decision making process?

But Cubase is for squares!