Set me free!

Please help me go wireless microphone, ear monitor and guitar at one time through small portable PA system.

I think this is a challenging question and if you would be so kind as to reply I really need your
help and appreciate it very much.

What would be a good equipment list to accomplish this set up?

I play an acoustic/electric. sing and run around the stage with backing tracks,samples and guitar
loops at times.

my goal is to be free to roam around and play while listening to my perfect vocal mix.

none of the local music shops have the expertise to help me design a system that achieves this goal
cost options are a factor to take into account.

Many thanks for the helpful reply,

Will

Welcome to the forum.

Do you have a budget for this? Are you in the UK or somewhere else?

It's good that you realise that there's more involved than might first be thought - that way when the lists of "... and you need to think about this..." start to appear you won't be downhearted!

It can be done, but there's a lot to take into account... so first off:
* How much can you spend?
* Where are you based?

Stay tuned!

One of the guitarists in my band has a wireless guitar job. It picks up the mobile phone "dit-dit-dit-dah-dit-dit" really well. And periodically it'll either produce no sound at all or give off massive squeals, which is usually related to battery woes.

Since we're never likely to be playing on big stages, and he doesn't move around much anyway, I really wish he'd chuck the damn thing in the bin and go back to a cable. YMMV if you run around a lot. But if you do go wireless, don't ever leave a mobile phone turned on anywhere near the receiver unit(s).

+1 on wires - they're not perfect but they work. In your situation I think I'd get it all working with cables then replace them with radios. That way, if you find yourself in a situation where you can't use the radios, you've got the wired version to fall back on. guitar cable length would be an issue of course, but you could certainly do a reasonable length to start with before you need DIs and stuff. Unless you want to go right into the audience you'd probably be OK. Then when you find the right wireless kit you just swap it in. Sorry I can't help with that but being a bass/keys player I don't do all that running around bit.

Thanks much for the replys

USA and can spend perhaps 3 or 4 thousand usd but I still would like to know what you think in terms of specific gear and makes and models even if its Rolling Stones money involed. just a combo ear monitor mic set up would get me started just fine. I can deal with a long guitar chord.

I know this is a challenging question thanks again

Well, if you're talking that kind of money, then you should look at the Sennheiser EW300 series, or even the EW500 series. You should be able to get IEM, wireless mic, and wireless guitar for that kinda cash. The Sennheiser units are rock solid and can be frequency tuned so you don't get interference between the signals, or interference from any other radio signals that might be around where you are performing. Look for the G3 (newest) or the G2 models.

I'd also look into getting custom molded in ear headphones as that will vastly improve the experience.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Edited by Exavior Music (29/06/10 07:40 PM)

Quote Exavior Music:

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Well, if you're talking that kind of money, then you should look at the Sennheiser EW300 series, or even the EW500 series. You should be able to get IEM, wireless mic, and wireless guitar for that kinda cash. The Sennheiser units are rock solid and can be frequency tuned so you don't get interference between the signals, or interference from any other radio signals that might be around where you are performing. Look for the G3 (newest) or the G2 models.

I'd also look into getting custom molded in ear headphones as that will vastly improve the experience.

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Agreed!

Also be sure that you're buying gear that is compatible with the new licensing regs in the States and not being palmed-off with incompatible sets.

Quote Willy B. Good:

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Set me free!

Please help me go wireless microphone, ear monitor and guitar at one time through small portable PA system.

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Firstly, I don't believe the concept that wires are ALWAYS better than wireless. I've used wireless guitar/mic/in-ear in 100's of gigs, other than having to make sure you have charged batteries, I've never, ever had a problem. Infact, I'd say that being totally wireless gives me more room to perform on stage, and I don't have to worry about treading on leads.

AKG do a guitar/mic set, WMS40, around about £150 here in the UK. Both the guitar bug and headset mic are compressed, but don't confuse compressed with inferior. In reality, the audience aren't bothered and can't hear the difference, so don't think that spec sheets are the most important consideration. If you spend more, you'll get a better quality wireless mic, like the AKG400 that I use: that's considerably better sounding than the SM58's we also use, so the notion that wired is better is simply nonsense.

As for in-ear, the Shure PSM200 set is every good, but, it's all about which buds you use and whether or not you use canal moulds. I use a relatively cheap in-ear system, but I have expensive buds and proper canal moulds, and the results are very good indeed.

Hope this helps.

Presumably a big reason for running around the stage is because your interacting with, or feeding off, the audience.

In which case you will need to ensure you have a means of getting that audience "noise" into your IEM system. Some have an ambient mic for this purpose, or you may need to add a mic to the PA (but not routed to the main speakers, and be mindful of feedback).

As for wireless systems, the Sennheiser stuff is very well regarded, but for the guitar personally I'd look into the Line6 relay range. This is digital, and has the facility to emulate guitar cables so you dial it in to exactly match your cable sound. Some very good reviews from pro/club players.

If your keeping mobile then budget for racking your wireless kit, unless you have space in your current PA rack?

Hewesy

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Firstly, I don't believe the concept that wires are ALWAYS better than wireless. I've used wireless guitar/mic/in-ear in 100's of gigs, other than having to make sure you have charged batteries, I've never, ever had a problem. Infact, I'd say that being totally wireless gives me more room to perform on stage, and I don't have to worry about treading on leads.

AKG do a guitar/mic set, WMS40, around about £150 here in the UK. Both the guitar bug and headset mic are compressed, but don't confuse compressed with inferior. In reality, the audience aren't bothered and can't hear the difference, so don't think that spec sheets are the most important consideration. If you spend more, you'll get a better quality wireless mic, like the AKG400 that I use: that's considerably better sounding than the SM58's we also use, so the notion that wired is better is simply nonsense.

As for in-ear, the Shure PSM200 set is every good, but, it's all about which buds you use and whether or not you use canal moulds. I use a relatively cheap in-ear system, but I have expensive buds and proper canal moulds, and the results are very good indeed.

Hope this helps.

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Okay, I know that the cheaper units are ok to use, but the OP has said he's got a significant amount of money to spend. I've used cheaper wireless sets and the Sennheiser ones both in anger in touring live gig situations and I know which ones I'd rather use given the budget to do so.

There's nothing wrong with the AKG or the Shure ones mentioned above, however if there's interference on the frequencies used by these units there's only so many that you can switch to. I had this exact problem on a gig, and we had to abandon the Shures and use a wedge again because we couldn't find a clear channel. We could however find a clear enough channel using the Sennheisers as we could dial the frequency to whatever we wanted, instead of being restricted to limited bands.

Now I accept it's a rare occasion that this is a problem, however if you're touring around with ONLY IEM and no wedges it's a problem you can't afford to have, and we were lucky that only a couple of the guys were using IEM so we had a full compliment of wedges.

There is also a significant sound difference between the cheaper units and the more expensive units. When switching between the Sennheisers and the cheap Shures on this tour while line checking, the Sennheisers were significantly clearer.

For reasons of balance I have to say that the more costly Shure packs are also pretty good, but I haven't had first hand experience of them!

At the end of the day, he's got the money to spend, so why not get the good stuff

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Firstly, I don't believe the concept that wires are ALWAYS better than wireless. I've used wireless guitar/mic/in-ear in 100's of gigs, other than having to make sure you have charged batteries, I've never, ever had a problem. Infact, I'd say that being totally wireless gives me more room to perform on stage, and I don't have to worry about treading on leads.

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While convienience is always a factor, in truth if you compare a side by side of a wired connection and a wireless, especially a cheap wireless, you WILL hear a difference.

Wired is always more reliable in my experience, wireless only adds more points of failure. That isn't to be confused with it can't be used reliably, just that wired is MORE reliable. Wireless also has its own set of issues, frequency coordination etc. In the US we don't have license free frequencies in the same way the UK does, which I will of course touch on in a moment....

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AKG do a guitar/mic set, WMS40, around about £150 here in the UK. Both the guitar bug and headset mic are compressed, but don't confuse compressed with inferior. In reality, the audience aren't bothered and can't hear the difference, so don't think that spec sheets are the most important consideration. If you spend more, you'll get a better quality wireless mic, like the AKG400 that I use: that's considerably better sounding than the SM58's we also use, so the notion that wired is better is simply nonsense.

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Wow... your premise is just nonsense there. You openly admit that the mic sounds compressed, but it obviously sounds better? You say that just because you can use a wired SM58, a wireless with a better mic is better? Most people will not be using a wired SM58 if they are looking to invest money in their setup and not depend on venue provided equipment, as is the case here apparently, and even wireless many people aren't using them except on the VERY cheap end of things.

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As for in-ear, the Shure PSM200 set is every good, but, it's all about which buds you use and whether or not you use canal moulds. I use a relatively cheap in-ear system, but I have expensive buds and proper canal moulds, and the results are very good indeed.

Hope this helps.

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Hey there is something in here I agree with the premise of. The in-ears you are using make a huge difference, however I will strongly disagree with it being all about the in-ears you use.

Ok all that said, I will state flat out, as an engineer I MUCH prefer using wired when I can. The sound is cleaner, it is more reliable, less work for me, less expense due to batteries etc., and in general a wise move. I will use wireless if I NEED to. It is up to the OP to determine when that point is. Continuing on...

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Also be sure that you're buying gear that is compatible with the new licensing regs in the States and not being palmed-off with incompatible sets.

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It is important to note that this is nearly impossible to do at the moment. The US regulations are in a current state of flux. Obviously we cannot have any equipment in the 700MHz range now, but we have only been granted a temporary reprieve that allows for legal use by anyone besides broadcast/Hollywood/etc. (Who always had an ability to legally license the requencies as a secondary user). That reprieve may expire here in a few weeks for instance, we are currently waiting for the next report and order from the FCC to tell us what the actual process will be.

NOTE: There are no 'license free' frequencies to use in the US like there is in the EU/UK. Right now as of January we are legally allowed to operate under part 15 as secondary users due to being granted the reprieve, but I would not expect that to continue exactly as it was granted much longer. If you can, it is probably worth waiting till the next report and order before doing any purchasing to ensure you are in compliance not only now, but in the near future. In the not to distant future(Probably in the next 10 years) this will all change again, but we don't have to much information on that yet, so as long as you don't expect to use more than 10 years, you will be fine after the next report and order to purchase so long as you purchase in compliance with the rules in the near future as layed out by said report and order...

And as another side note to the above, do NOT depend on the clerk at guitar center/sam ash/etc. to know jack about any of this. The reps at place like Sweetwater and Full Compass will know more, but I wouldn't necessarily depend on them either, do your own research and reading, or get someone you trust that understands this.

Seablade

Quote Exavior Music:

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Okay, I know that the cheaper units are ok to use, but the OP has said he's got a significant amount of money to spend. I've used cheaper wireless sets and the Sennheiser ones both in anger in touring live gig situations and I know which ones I'd rather use given the budget to do so.

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Cheaper wireless, don't bother. Period. Many reasons to do so, not the least of which is sound quality. That being said...

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There's nothing wrong with the AKG or the Shure ones mentioned above, however if there's interference on the frequencies used by these units there's only so many that you can switch to. I had this exact problem on a gig, and we had to abandon the Shures and use a wedge again because we couldn't find a clear channel. We could however find a clear enough channel using the Sennheisers as we could dial the frequency to whatever we wanted, instead of being restricted to limited bands.

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I don't use AKG wireless for a reason, however with the Shure stuff and your experiences there you would have to be a bit more specific. I can pretty well guarantee that there is a wide variety of frequencies you can tune any decent Shure (SLX/ULX or better) to and you should have no problem finding an open frequency provided that you have the correct BLOCK for your area(And this applies just as much to Sennheiser and anyone else).

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There is also a significant sound difference between the cheaper units and the more expensive units. When switching between the Sennheisers and the cheap Shures on this tour while line checking, the Sennheisers were significantly clearer.

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Again, don't go cheap. I will state that there are definitly Shure models that sound quite nice and can beat out the evolution series performance handily. But these are NOT their cheap models.

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For reasons of balance I have to say that the more costly Shure packs are also pretty good, but I haven't had first hand experience of them!

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I have;) Along with a good numbers of other packs as well.

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At the end of the day, he's got the money to spend, so why not get the good stuff

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Agreed completely.

For the sake of completeness on my part, on the 'cheap' end I would go with Shure ULX/SLX series for mics and wouldn't bother with anything any cheaper. On the Sennheiser side of cheap, as has already been stated the Evolution Wireless series. I wouldn't use much else than this on the cheap end.

If I have the budget, my preferences are...

4. Above mentioned 'cheap' wireless
3. Shure UHF-R series
2. Sennheiser 3000/5000 Series
1. Lectrosonics

For IEMs I would go with at least the Shure PSM600, I haven't used Sennheiser's offerings in this area. I also have no problem going straight to Lectrosonics for this either, but really I would go with the PSM600 or better in any of those.

Of course this is all trumped if I can just use wired, and if I can I will always go wired.

Seablade

I knew seablade would step in eventually!

For clarification, the Shure pack I state as using was the PSM200 model. This was the performer's own pack so I didn't have much of a choice.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Quote Exavior Music:

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I knew seablade would step in eventually!

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I was honestly trying not to, especially since other people were hitting on the, do you need wired, aspect of it.

By the way, another part of this is, do you have the knowledge to keep your equipment, retune and recoordinate it either other stuff, as you tour?

To give an example, I just worked a gig last weekend that the singer came up to me and said 'I have a wireless unit I bought some time ago that we can't ever get to work I would like to use if we get time. It constantly squeals whenever we hook it up.' (Paraphrased).

I opened up the box, the unit is in the 700MHz range which is now illegal to use in the US for one thing. I didn't have time before this concert to hook it up for her because this was the first time I had worked with this group and this system, and because I had to incorporate my own tracking rig into it since they wanted a demo recording done of their live concert as well. No time, but the point I am trying to make is she had spent the money on a Sennheiser Evolution series(I think only 100 series but don't remember) but has gotten very little use out of it because she doesn't know how to operate it and frequencies shift dramatically in as far as what is usable as you travel the US. Another downside of the lack of license free frequencies that yall apparently have in the EU/UK is that you can't recommend any set of frequencies that is likely to work everywhere.

Seablade

you guys are good thanks again for all the helpful information

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I don't use AKG wireless for a reason

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I'll get straight onto AKG and tell them to stop manufacturing their wireless ranges, and I'll also sell all of my AKG kit as clearly it hasn't served me well at all.

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While convienience is always a factor, in truth if you compare a side by side of a wired connection and a wireless, especially a cheap wireless, you WILL hear a difference.

Wired is always more reliable in my experience, wireless only adds more points of failure.

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The simple facts are that this guy needs to move around, and be wireless, but your entire argument is based around being wired.

Pointless.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Quote seablade:

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I don't use AKG wireless for a reason

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I'll get straight onto AKG and tell them to stop manufacturing their wireless ranges, and I'll also sell all of my AKG kit as clearly it hasn't served me well at all.

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Hello Straw Man.

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The simple facts are that this guy needs to move around, and be wireless, but your entire argument is based around being wired.

Pointless.

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Hmm from that same post...

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Ok all that said, I will state flat out, as an engineer I MUCH prefer using wired when I can. The sound is cleaner, it is more reliable, less work for me, less expense due to batteries etc., and in general a wise move. I will use wireless if I NEED to. It is up to the OP to determine when that point is.

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I love when I don't even have to type out my responses because I already did.

Seablade

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I'd like to buy a van, as I need to move some heavy kit around, does anyone have any suggestions?

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Yes, buy a motorcycle, it's much quicker.

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Genius.

Well at this point I think it is obvious you don't have anything constructive to say, since not only did I address this(And even re-quoted where I did for you), I also gave examples specifically of wireless to look at earlier which is exactly what the OP posted, if the OP still decides they want to go wireless. So have fun, if the OP or others have more questions I will be more than happy to answer, but I am not going to waste my time on trolling.

Seablade

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Well at this point I think it is obvious you don't have anything constructive to say, since not only did I address this

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You're confused: you continually mentioned wired, inspite of the entire premise being the requirement to be wireless.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Quote seablade:

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Well at this point I think it is obvious you don't have anything constructive to say, since not only did I address this

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You're confused: you continually mentioned wired, inspite of the entire premise being the requirement to be wireless.

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You done yet?

A quick glance through my posts on the topic will point out that maybe 1/4 of my conversation has been on wired vs wireless, and all specifically in response to one of your posts and your premise that wired is not always better than wireless. The rest(Including at least half of that first post which is the only one that I dealt with wired on really) has all been on the topic of wireless specifically, quality, units I use, legal side of things, etc.

Please read my posts before you post a response to them. Every single one of your responses to me thus far I have been able to respond to easily by simply quoting what I have already typed.

Now all this being said, if you insist on having the last word, go ahead, I will most likely not bother replying to you again as refuting you now has nothing to do with the OP's original topic of discussion.

Seablade

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A quick glance through my posts on the topic will point out that maybe 1/4 of my conversation has been on wired vs wireless

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It shouldn't have been any as the main premise is that it has to be wireless: the clue was very much in the title.

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and all specifically in response to one of your posts and your premise that wired is not always better than wireless.

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Wireless is better than wired, when the premise is that someone needs to be wireless. Again, fairly obvious.

One of the things about this forum, along with most others as it happens, is that people ask for help with their own solution to their problem, rather than presenting the problem itself. I get this in my day job a lot; there's often a better solution than the one that the client has come up with themselves. After all, if they were the expert, they wouldn't be asking for help in the first place. Offering alternative options and ensuring that the client understands the full ramifications of any solution (including their own) should be part of the service.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

If it were me I would do this:
Bear in mind what I know about PA's you could write on a pin head With a MOP .

1. Change PA to a Bose L1 system, you don't need monitors as it goes behind you, so then you need no IEM's (it's also light and modular) . Easier to interract with the audience. Since I went this route I sold my IEM's which were a real pain especially in terms of communicating with bandmates and audience.

2. Guitar wise, Iv'e been using the New Line 6 digital system (G 30 I think it is), as much as I hate the rest of their products I have tried, this is really good, no interference, no companding, really clean signal (much better than my old Shure unit) . Battery life is not brilliant. It's also future proof in terms of licensing and spectrum.


3. Wireless, mic - I've no idea

Good luck

While the Sennheiser EW series are great (beware the Chinese are cloning them)an alternative is the JTS US1000D/A as reliable as Sennheiser and around 25% cheaper they also manufacture in ear monitors which a friend of mine swears by howerver I can't comment as I have no experience of their IEM