Hi all -

My 13 yr-old son plays drums for a band of 12-14 yr-olds, and as his roadie and "drum tech" :-), I'd like to put together a simple monitor setup for him. The band is composed of a singer/keyboardist, guitar player, bassist and, of course, drummer. During gigs, only the singer/keyboardist has a PA (8-channel head with 2 mains) - the guitar player and bassist just play off their amps.

What's an economical way to put together a wedge monitor setup for my son? I've been doing some reading and here's what I _think_ would be needed (not having any prior experience with any of this stuff):

- a 12" wedge monitor (powered or not)
- an amp (if the wedge monitor is not powered)
- a 4-channel mixer
- mics to pick-up guitar and bass sound from their amps

Assuming the above is on the right track, a few questions:

- how do I get a signal from the singer's mic? Right now, her mic runs into her PA. Is there a way to split a mic's signal? Or is there a way to get a signal from her PA head that I can run into my son's mixer?
- do I need to worry about mic-ing the drums to feed into the mixer, or will they be loud enough by themselves? (this is getting expensive :-) )
- anything else I need to be thinking of?

Thanks!

Edited by joelq (07/07/10 03:51 PM)

Im assuming all the instruments are already mic'd or plugged directly into the PA system. Does each channel have an 'aux send' with a jack output or similar. If so, buy an active PA speakers, and a lead to connect the 'aux out' to 'line in' on the active PA speaker. Turn the aux dials up for each instrument and work out what level you want to independently send to the monitor, without affecting the main mix.

You shouldn't really need to be putting acoustic drums into the monitor mix as well, this would just be raising stage volume and increase likelihood of feedback. As long as the drummer can hear the instruments they need to, to be able to play, that should be enough? Once they start getting bigger gigs, sound would be done by a professional team and they may start to get more versatile foldback, giving the drummer a mix with some of themselves in there as well.

OP says the guitar and bass are not going through pa. So miking the bass and guitar may be an option, though I'd use a DI on the bass and split the signal (or take an output from the bass amp if there is one (look for a male XLR on the amp somewhere) and a splitter to take a feed from the vocal mic. Or you could take an aux out from the singer/keyboard PA: you'll probably only need bass and vocal in the monitor. I wouldn't add any mics I could avoid.

Strategic positioning of bass and guitar amps will let everyone hear them. Everyone, not just the drummer, needs to hear the keyboard and vocals. On a small gig I often use the "one for the audience, one for the band" technique - face one PA speeaker out at the audience, swing the other in facing the players. If you want to use a wedge speaker, pick a self-powered type and feed it from the PA amplifier. There is always a Line Out feed.

Micing the drums is more normally for the FOH sound. Although I do work with a group who like lots of kick, so they always want kick in the monitors. Most times though, the drumkit is loud enough for anyone near it without needing any extra.

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Micing the drums is more normally for the FOH sound. Although I do work with a group who like lots of kick, so they always want kick in the monitors. Most times though, the drumkit is loud enough for anyone near it without needing any extra.

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And, unless you're working on a 40ft wide stage, it had damn well BETTER be loud enough without any! If you want any hearing left in the second half of your life, that is.

If the drum fill has to handle keyboards and bass a monitor with a 15" low frequancy driver would be better than a 12" which is likley to break up with deep synth and organ sounds.

Is it worth trying out in ear moitoring, you could try running a cable from the headphone output of the mixer to some in ear phones if this works then a cable from the auxilliary output to a headphone amp or even a wireless system could give the mix the drummer needs and zero feedback. Don't buy a cheap wireless systems if you decide to go down this route you will regret it, spend as much on a wireless system as you would on a quality active wedge

Although as drummers don't run around very much, wired shouldn't be too much of a problem. And it's far cheaper & more reliable.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Your son will need hearing protection. On top of this most stages use a drummers side fill which is at head height for the drummer and is usually a full range speaker (not a floor wedge) capable of giving the instruments for song cues and what ever off the drum kit needs to be heard. I can usually hear snare and cymbals easily but on a gig where the sound just disappears into the venue the kick and the toms usually go. The option of some kick in the side fill would be nice for your son.

The trick for any band is to try and balance themselves naturally and starting in their rehearsal space. Hopefully this habit and skill will be carried through to their gigs. It will make the band sound balanced where ever they play and make them easier to be miked up by the sound person. It's called playing to the room so that everything is in balance and not overloading the space to the point where the SPL's cause the refections to muddy the direct sound or cause peoples ears to distort.

It might mean that your son plays with lighter sticks depending on the room. So open his mind to the possibility of it.

I recon a single Mackie or JBL all in one powered 1x15 PA speaker should suffice for rehearsals and small gigs and above that reasonable venues should be providing better monitoring at the venue.

Happy roadying joelq.

Peace,
Octopussy

Just had a band on Saturday in a not-too-big music pub (Haymakers in Cambridge). Not a bad band in their way, but the drummer had sprung for some big top-notch cymbals - and did he ever want you to know he'd got them! Hard to get the vocals audible, because there was too much "tssshhhh" occupying the entire upper spectrum for everyone in the pub. With a soundcheck I could have asked him to damp them or at least turn it down a bit, but they arrived too late for a soundcheck. Ho hum.

Quote grab:

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Just had a band on Saturday in a not-too-big music pub (Haymakers in Cambridge). Not a bad band in their way, but the drummer had sprung for some big top-notch cymbals - and did he ever want you to know he'd got them! Hard to get the vocals audible, because there was too much "tssshhhh" occupying the entire upper spectrum for everyone in the pub. With a soundcheck I could have asked him to damp them or at least turn it down a bit, but they arrived too late for a soundcheck. Ho hum.

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My drummer (a VERY experienced musician) speaks of the big Delfont summer shows 40 years ago when there was one microphone on stage, 16 in the orchestra pit and you just HAD to make an acoustic balance work. If the chorus were singing, of COURSE you kept off the top cymbals!