Andrew Hudson
Joined: 11/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: United Kingdom
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Authenticity in Production
#848517 - 24/07/10 09:50 AM
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Have been doing some reading recently, some of the more academic music production as well
as SOund on SOund articles etc.. and got me thinking about authenticity and production a
bit more, and have thought of a few questions which I would love to have the opinions of
some of you guys about, some are quite broad!
What is authenticity with regards
to record production?
Do you strive for authenticity when recording and
creating a record? Is it something you consciously think about? If so, why is that?
Is it more of an ideological thing, or a sound thing?
Is authenticity
genre based? For example, would a more authentic rock record be played live, using
predominantly outboard gear, rather than using plugins and in the box?
cheers!
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Jonnypopisical
Joined: 16/07/05
Posts: 1075
Loc: London
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848523 - 24/07/10 10:29 AM
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music is also illusion - period
--------------------
Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!
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Daniel Davis
Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 728
Loc: Edinburgh
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848531 - 24/07/10 11:33 AM
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Authenticity in it's place. If you are recording a great orchestra in a beautiful room I
suppose that you would want the recording to sound like being there. On the other hand, if
you are recording a set of dustbin lids calling itself a drumkit, or a singer who
occasionally sings near a note it's a different matter. Besides which, there is no
authentic sound for most electronic or electrically amplified instruments. Additionally,
if you want authenticity, then I suppose every recording would have to be first take and
allow no overdubs. I prefer to think in terms of trying to stay true to the artist's
vision of their music.
-------------------- Daniel Davis
Edinburgh Recording Studio Windmill Sound
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jayzed
member
Joined: 19/03/04
Posts: 846
Loc: North London
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848540 - 24/07/10 12:27 PM
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Authenticity is what you define it as.
Did we move away from it the first time
someone plugged in a mic? Did we move away from it when an instrument was first plugged
into an amp? Or did we move away from it when the first person deliberately modified the
hollow bit of bamboo he was blowing into to improve the sound? Do we have it if we use
certain bits of equipment, or if we have the right attitude?
Pointless really,
most of this thinking about authenticity. Maybe it may help you define certain limitations
(this is where it's all at, IMO) which enable one to hew something out of the amorphous,
infinitely modifiable blob that consistutes your possible options.
Otherwise,
it's just one conceptual part of the pathetic, culture destroying thing that is
post-modernism.
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Mixedup
active member
Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4254
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: jayzed]
#848561 - 24/07/10 02:39 PM
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I remember this coming up years ago as a college essay assignment... I don't suppose
that's what this is perchance?
The question's meaningless without defining
'authenticity'. The term has to apply to something to make it meaningful. Might be about
tools, techniques, lyrical content or anything. Anything that isn't pretending to be
something it isn't is authentic!
Maybe think about that a bit more and then
come back and ask the question again with a bit more detail...
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mjfe2
Joined: 11/10/09
Posts: 503
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848666 - 25/07/10 02:35 PM
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I remembered you posting these same questions last time! I would agree with everyone who
says you need to define authenticity. Which is why in your last thread I recommended a
chapter from a book I used a lot for my final year at uni, which goes someway towards
defining authenticity as a trope in popular music. Did you check it out?
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mjfe2
Joined: 11/10/09
Posts: 503
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848668 - 25/07/10 02:46 PM
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Quote Andrew Hudson:
Is it more of an ideological thing, or a sound thing?
cheers!
See post above! I would argue it is
very much an ideological thing.
You might say that recording a classical
orchestra to sound as if you were there, is an example of something 'authentic'. But
aside from the psychoacoustic considerations of mic configurations and whether anything
other than a binaural recording is really authentic, think about where a pair of mics
might be placed. In the centre, raised up above the conductor's head? The 'ideal' seat
in the 'concert' hall, which doesn't even exist? With all the extraneous sounds of a live
concert removed (e.g. audience members coughing, shuffling around you)? All human
mistakes erased by the splicing of the best takes? Is this really authentic to the
concert hall experience?
The ideology that prevails here is an honouring of
the music score itself, which is also note perfect, studied in silence, offering perfect
vantage for the analyst. At least this is how 'Music' (formal musicology) used to be
taught! Nowadays we would realise that all representations/recordings of music, from
commercial pop singles to classical albums, are marketed in their own way as 'authentic'.
But really that means they are ideologically wielded to someone's advantage (whose?)....
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* User requested
...
Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848675 - 25/07/10 04:12 PM
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Whenever folk starting bandying the word 'authentic' around more than a couple of times in
a post, it's hard not to think they're trying to tie creating music to some fuzzy
generalisation they learned on a Neuro Linguistic Programming seminar.
Andrew,
can you put everyone's (well, my) mind at rest and assure us that your post isn't anything
to do with NLP?
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grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2626
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848716 - 25/07/10 08:55 PM
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It's authentic if (a) the person (or people) doing it believe in what they're doing, and
(b) if they can make me believe in it. It doesn't have to be "authentically rock" or
"authentically hip-hop" so long as it's "authentically you".
Despite their
utter lack of musical ability, the Sex Pistols were authentic - they knew what they wanted
to convey, and they made the songs do it. Despite their enormous musical ability, the
Darkness wouldn't know authentic if it shat on their heads - their schtick is entirely
pastiche with nothing new to say.
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mjfe2
Joined: 11/10/09
Posts: 503
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: grab]
#848725 - 25/07/10 09:43 PM
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Quote grab:
Despite their utter
lack of musical ability, the Sex Pistols were authentic - they knew what they wanted to
convey, and they made the songs do it. Despite their enormous musical ability, the
Darkness wouldn't know authentic if it shat on their heads - their schtick is entirely
pastiche with nothing new to say.
Yet I wonder how many people realise just how much splicing was done on Never
Mind the Bollocks! And there's the question of whether Sid Vicious actually played on the
album at all! Is that authentically Sex Pistols? Perhaps you could argue for a sort of
'anti-authenticity' (which would tie in with the whole punk attitude)...
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JamesSimpson
Joined: 24/12/05
Posts: 1064
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848740 - 26/07/10 12:19 AM
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But the Darkness believed in what they were doing and they made many hundreds of thousands
of others believe too, so by your own rules they are authentic too.
-------------------- Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar
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grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2626
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: JamesSimpson]
#848787 - 26/07/10 09:37 AM
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They believed they were going to pastiche stadium-rock for a decent profit. The best that
makes them is authentic piss-takers. I believe I'll have another beer... 
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Richie Royale
Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 3369
Loc: Bristol, England.
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#848808 - 26/07/10 10:37 AM
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JamesSimpson
Joined: 24/12/05
Posts: 1064
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: grab]
#849249 - 26/07/10 11:21 PM
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Quote grab:
They believed they
were going to pastiche stadium-rock for a decent profit. The best that makes them is
authentic piss-takers.
I believe I'll have another beer...
They also wrote really smashingly good
pop songs, but i suppose that everybody forgets that when you wear spandex, unless your
Van Halen, or Queen, or Aerosmith, or Guns N Roses.
Wait a second....
--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar
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Andrew Hudson
Joined: 11/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Richie Royale]
#849290 - 27/07/10 09:41 AM
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Thanks for the feedback guys, and sorry for the "Deja Vu"!
Edited by Andrew Hudson (27/07/10 09:44 AM)
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TheChorltonWheelie
Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 867
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: Andrew Hudson]
#849351 - 27/07/10 11:43 AM
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Quote Andrew Hudson:
What is
authenticity with regards to record production?
Listen to untreated recorded drums, they sound like slightly damp
cereal boxes. I'm not suggesting we go back to ludicrous gated reverb, but a nicely
EQ'd/treated drum kit is, in my opinion, nicer to listen to than a dry and authentically
recorded drum kit.
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Andrew Hudson
Joined: 11/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Authenticity in Production
[Re: mjfe2]
#850943 - 03/08/10 08:50 AM
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hey there, yea i have been using that book, "faking it" its been useful, thanks for the
tip
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