See here.

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do the anecdote, do it now...

yeah - but it looks like you have to solder it all together yourself.

It looks interesting, but there are so many other midi recieving clones around, why bother? I would snap this up if they had modelled the 303's sequencer as well, which I believe is the key to getting twenty year old stereotypical sounds, which frankly I want to!

While I am ranting, does a stand alone, 16 step sequencer, in the X0X stylee exist?

Still, if did I have this, with sequencer, I would mount the PCB in a bread bin to confuse the gear spotting kids in the front.

PB

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happy emoticon

I believe FutureRetro do a stand-alone hardware sequencer a la TB 303. Made in the US, though, so I wouldn't buy it myself.

Maybe worth looking in more detail at the Korg MS2000B - it has a 16 step sequencer built-in and is cheap, especially in rack form. Not sure whether it will output the sequencer signal - download manual and check ! If it does, then there is your hardware sequencer with a good synth thrown in for free.

If you want to go very bargain-basement, the DR202 rhythm box has a genuine Roland step sequencer and definitely does output sequencing to MIDI.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

The korg electribes have a TR style sequencer which can be set to drive an external unit via MIDI. There's only one MIDI track though so you cant sequence the internal engine as well as external stuff, which is a shame.

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www.myspace.com/benjunctionbox

I really cannot see the point.

The TB303 was pretty crap anyway and there are many boxes which sound a many times better and can do million more things. That's where I'd be looking.
There is a perception that the TB303 is some sort of classic. It is not in my opinion and should be consigned to the retro-skip.
At the time there wasn't much competition and as for the dance revolution, it falls into a similar catagory to the DX7 in the 1980s - that is the same sounds over and over again. The DX7 wasn't a bad product and is very flexible is used in a creative way.

Rant over.

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Jack of all trades, master of some.

Hmmm... I can see where your coming from Al, but you cant get those sounds from any other synth because the architecture of the 303 is so wierd - mainly the filter and the way the portamento works.

But the sequencer is a pain in the a%$e - once you know how it's making the sound you can get the same results with a MIDI sequencer for about 90% less hassle.

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www.myspace.com/benjunctionbox

This should try avoid being yet another 303 pro's and con's thread, but I tend to disagree on the sequencer business, the 303 sequencer is only difficult if you actually know what you want it to play before you use it, then it's limitations are exposed, if you are happy to input some random notes, add glide / accent etc. magic happens. (Unlike the MC202, which is a pain on both counts.

I believe this forum is read by professional muscians, whose musical integrity questions such an approach, but its dead easy to do, a lot easier and more fun than farting around in a matrix edit window, which I detest!

PB

At work and bitter.

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happy emoticon

Al,

You've obviously never used a 303 then? They're great fun!

You're not correct in saying there are "many boxes which sound many times better". The 303 sound (was) completely unique, and it defined a generation of music, whether you like it or not.

Of course it's a classic.

- Mark

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent."

Quote Marky:

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Al,

You've obviously never used a 303 then? They're great fun!

You're not correct in saying there are "many boxes which sound many times better". The 303 sound (was) completely unique, and it defined a generation of music, whether you like it or not.

Of course it's a classic.

- Mark

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I agree.

Electric guitars aren't terribly exciting either, when you think about it... They only do one sound...

-Paws

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Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use UBBCode in your signature

Edited by Paws (09/02/05 09:11 PM)

I think what it really comes down to is simple.....

Does it actually sound and function like a TB303, (Without the sequencer)? and, Is it much cheaper than a 2nd hand TB303, (remember to also account for a 16 step MIDI sequencer)?

Realistically, if it retails at about £150-£250 & sounds just like a modded 303 then there'll be a market for it, (I might even be interested myself), otherwise forget it!

Marky,
I had one many years ago although it didn't belong to me. Good fun, but not a good flexible product. At the same time I borrowed a Wasp which I did like.

On guitars, you can make a guitar sound many different ways and I find a guitar more flexible than a 303.

As for defining a generation, what generation are we talking?
It certainly didn't define mine and when I had one to play with it was around 1983.
So maybe it was unique, but so are my f*rts.

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Jack of all trades, master of some.

Early 90's hardcore.

Mid-late 90's big beat.

Everybody needs a 303...

-Paws

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Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use UBBCode in your signature

There's always this, which claims to include a 303-esque sequencer as well...

http://web.media.mit.edu/~ladyada/make/x0xb0x/

Quote BigAl:

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Marky,
I had one many years ago although it didn't belong to me. Good fun, but not a good flexible product. At the same time I borrowed a Wasp which I did like.

On guitars, you can make a guitar sound many different ways and I find a guitar more flexible than a 303.

As for defining a generation, what generation are we talking?
It certainly didn't define mine and when I had one to play with it was around 1983.
So maybe it was unique, but so are my f*rts.

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Hey Al, I didn't claim it defined your generation in particular.

Just about every early acid house was driven by an x0x machine, 1989 - 93. Many, many house, techno, acid tracks were driven by the 303's unique sound. It defined the early techno/acid sound.

As I said, you may not particularly like the music or the sound, but the 303 was responsible for a whole genre of music. It is as distinctive as a guitar in a rock track; it's a signature sound. Like a harpsichord in Baroque, and a piano in a Mozart sonata.

There's little point in debating the sonic qualities against an acoustic instrument like a guitar and an analog circuit like a 303. But both have a distinct sound and defined a genre.

303's still sell for well over a grand here in the States. you'd be lucky to sell a "classic" DX7 for $250.

Keep your hair on.
Maybe that proves how basic techo-acid was - not very flexible and all sounding the same.
Maybe that was down to the talent of the people making the music - who knows.
"Defining a generation" is a bit strong. A few mates were using one in the early 1980s for their music in not too different a way from techo, although they had far superior musical context. When I heard it all these years later, I wasn't hearing anything new, as was being used in a creative way many years before it "defined a generation".
Around the late 1980s when it was very popular, I heard a track which sounded just like all the tracks of the day, but it had been recorded in 1967.

At the end of the day, it was a wee silver farting box which could produce a few sounds and let the user sequence some notes very easily, which made it simple to produce techno/acid/dance tracks as they are based on simplicity and repetitiveness (hardly real music).
It allowed untalented musicians to make a type of music, which wasn't very musical but you could dance to. that's fair enough.
How many ways is there to skin a cat?

To my original point, you can make techno/acid music with many pieces of equipment which are far superior to a 303. The talent doesn't come from the silver box - that comes from you.

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Jack of all trades, master of some.

Al, you're misquoting me. I didn't say it "defined a generation". I said it "defined a generation of music". Two very different concepts. Since it was a signature sound in so many tracks of that genre, it defined that genre's sound. I'm not saying it defined a generation of people's music.

Your other point was that it's not "some kind of classic", I simply said that it is a classic, which it undoubtedly is, because of the above and this is reflected in the crazy prices people are still willing to pay for it.

Re: your opinions on the type of music : when the 303 was first being abused to make the music, it was a different, fresh sound. "not real music" is such a cliche, is it not? That Kraftwerk (I'm guessing here) track you heard from around 1970 would have some elements of acid and techno, but it by no means sounds the same, perhaps only to someone who doesn't listen to much of the music, to be honest.

Anyways, I understand basically where you're coming from, just giving you another perspective.

I've heard tons of "real musicians" (I myself am a pianist) claim for years that they could easily re-create many credible techno tracks simply because the melodies seem so simple and repetetive. But when you hear what they come up with, it's miles off; they don't see the point that the music is more about the arrangement and ultra-tight production than simply melodies alone.

Ramble ramble, etc. Re-reading my post it might sound a bit contentions, but it's really not meant to be, I'm just making a point. Hopefully you won't see it that way.

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent."

Not really Kraftwerk. This was stuff which was ahead of it's time.
My mates used it in a slightly folk context but not unlike the way it was used years later, which makes their stuff sound strange.
I know there is creative guys using 303s and I know what you mean about people trying to produce similar music which is way off the mark (like someone these days using Eejay or similar to make music because it is easy).
Most good pieces regardless of genre still have substance no matter what gear they use.
I still think it's a pretty crappy unit.

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Jack of all trades, master of some.