Hi,

I'm looking to buy a batch of genuine Taiyo Yuden's and have been looking for the best place to buy in the UK.

Could anyone comment on these? Are they genuine TY retailers?
http://www.cvbmedia.co.uk/taiyo-yuden-shop/100-stack-taiyo-yuden-cd-r-48x- white-full-face-inkjet-printable.html

Thanks in advance!

They look pretty genuine to me.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote John Willett:

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They look pretty genuine to me.

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Used them a couple of times now for watershield discs - they're fine.

I have bought them from here:

cd-writer.com

Arrived quickly.

Make sure you have a suitable spindle or case, as my packaging of 100 CDs split open and there is no central spindle, so the disks went everywhere!

i have recently bought from this supplier and have turned out to be genuine, quick service too!

Excellent! Thanks for all the replies!

Hi

Rather than start a new thread.....

I need a new batch of CD-Rs. Have used Verbatim in the past but thought it might be time to give these TY's a go.

So, on the CVB website I noticed these, which are a fair bit cheaper than the others they do:

http://www.cvbmedia.co.uk/printable-cd-r-discs/100-stack-taiyo-yuden-shiny -silver-cd-r-48x.html

Not quite sure what warrants the saving of £8 - £13, so if anyone here knows then please let me know as I'm not sure whether to get these of the more expensive ones....?

Cheers

Max

They don't have the inkjet printable coating but are otherwise identical. I use them for discs that I don't need to print on.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Thanks James.

One other related question of interest to me.....

What makes these discs better? Are they better from an error point of view only, and if so how are these errors made apparent? In other words......the hundred of Verbatims I've used in the past have never given more problems with skipping, jumping, interference or anything like that. They play absolutely fine. But are they not as good as the Taiyos in other less noticeable ways? Or does it all come down to reliability?

This is something I've thought about for a while but never got around to finding out about, so any thoughts would be great.

Cheers

Max

I'm hardly an expert, so this is really just setting someone up to correct me, but, as I understand it, errors are not always just noticeable as skipping/jumping, but as non-linerarities in recording, i.e., dropped samples/bits, and degradation similar to mp3 encoding. What I was told is that higher quality media helps to eliminate these errors, though, as I said, I welcome someone refuting me.

Thanks Andrew.

Will be very interesting to see whether others agree....

Cheers mate.

There are actually two layers of error correction on a CD thanks to the fairly complex encoding scheme used. Minor errors such as single unreadable bits are fully corrected by the first layer. These are known as C1 errors (or E11 or E21). If an error is too serious to be corrected at the first level it is passed to the second level of error correction. Errors that are fully corrected at this level are called C2 errors (or E12 or E22). Errors that are too serious to be corrected at the first or second level are called uncorrectable errors, CU's or E32's.

An audio CD player will then attempt to conceal these CU's by interpolating from the last good data to the next. If the error is too serious for interpolation the player will mute.

A CD data drive will attempt to apply a further level of error correction to the CU's - this is why audio files on a data CD are considered more secure than a plain audio CD.

Taiyo Yuden discs are consistently good, usually giving less than 1 C1 error per second and no C2's at all. Verbatim discs are of variable quality. The plain Datalife discs have much higher error rates than T-Y's although the Datalife Plus discs seem similar in quality to T-Y's. Discs will only deteriorate with age so it is important to keep the error rates as low as possible on newly burned discs.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Edited by James Perrett (31/08/10 09:15 AM)

Huge thanks for the helpful reply James.

Would you agree with Andrew that errors are noticeable in a more subtle way as well (perhaps similar to Mp3 encoding)? Or would you say errors are only apparent as jumps, skipping etc.?

If I were to try burning a CD to a standard Verbatim disc and then ABing it with the original CD, would I be likely to hear differences if there were errors on the burnt disc?

BTW, I always burn at x4 as I thought this meant less likelihood of errors. Is that good practise?

Thanks again

Max

Hi Max - C1 and C2 errors should make absolutely no difference to the sound with a decent CD player. If you look after your discs you are unlikely to encounter uncorrectable errors unless the disc is faulty. If you don't look after your discs you may hear slight 'wobbles' in the sound when the CD player tries to interpolate over any uncorrectable errors but these won't be particularly subtle to a careful listener.

If you have a poorly designed CD player you may well hear differences between discs but these differences aren't necessarily down to errors. They could simply be down to the different pit geometry on a disc or different reflectivities. In a good CD player these differences wouldn't have any impact on the audio as the audio section and digital section would be well isolated. However, poorly designed CD players have digital sections which interfere with the audio sections and therefore some discs will sound different.

The best way to check for errors is to use a CD drive that will output low level error information like some Plextors or some LiteOn drives together with software like Plextools, KProbe, Nero Drivespeed or Opti Drive Control to give you a proper error report. Alternatively, you could extract the audio from the burned CD and compare it with the original by lining it up with the original in a DAW and then inverting it.

The best burn speed depends on the combination of drive and media. I find that 16X is best with T-Y media in my Plextor Premium2 drive but error rates seem to stay fairly low right up to full speed. Ironically, speeds lower than 16X give higher error rates.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

That is ironic about the 4x v 16x. But I'm sure you weren't complaining when you could burn so many more discs in a lot less time!!!

I should have added what I use....

I have Pioneer drives in my PC, a DVR-215 and a DVR-216. I use them for burning and also use them for listening to music most of the time. I have a Lavry DA10 in my set up and at some point will be buying an inexpensive CD player with optical out. Would not get much use as I use my PC when it is on. But it would be there for when the PC is off and I want to listen to music.

So in terms of what you said, will the quality of the CDP make much difference seeing as the conversion (and therefore audio?????) is being done by the Lavry.

And with regard to the DVD Drives I have, do you know if I can use them as you suggest to check for error?


Thanks a million once again for all the help and advice.

Max

PS - and will the difference in quality and "pit geometry" between TYs and the standard Verbatims be an issue?

The Lavry is a good converter that is insensitive to jitter on the input and so the quality of CD player won't make much of a difference with most discs. You may find that marginal discs can be played more easily with some players but that's about it.

I don't think that the Pioneers use the right chipsets to be compatible with the error checking programs that I mentioned. They have a good reputation and you may be able to use them to at least check C2 errors (as this functionality is built in to a much wider range of players than the C1 error checking) but I've never used a Pioneer drive so I can't say for sure.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Li-rocchi:

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PS - and will the difference in quality and "pit geometry" between TYs and the standard Verbatims be an issue?

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Not with a decent D/A convertor.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net