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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Loc: Geordieland
Human League article in SOS July 2010
      #869385 - 20/10/10 08:57 AM
Been meaning to write this for sometime.

Just like to thank SOS for the article of the Human Leagues Don't you want me.
(Mind it had as much to do with the entire Dare release as opposed Don't you want which is good as its probs the weakest song on there but I understand it being advertised as such as it is still a Karaoke fav to this day and so a bigger selling point.)

It was great to hear exactly what went on etc beck then. Mind I don't believe the flair up between the highly stressed Martin due to the extreme pressure he was under and Susan who would have been very immature back then was as smooth as made out.

Was great to hear how vocals were recorded in toilets and how Martin rose to fame by setting up a small garage studio then advancing from there.

I would have appreciated far more on the love and Dancing LP. I mean this was to my knowledge the very first remix LP ever. A huge step in electronic music. In its day it was both groundbreaking and innovating and still stands up well in the production area even by todays over produced everything standards.

Martin was the godfather or remixing and whilst he may be herald as a top producer on the Dare LP (not to mention altered images etc) he wore a different hat for this project and excelled equally well and if not better.

To me Martin Rushent was the Messi of the record producing pop world back in the 80s.

Thanks SOS for covering this. I really enjoyed the article, and thanks to it a friend of mine who borrowed my mag now buys SOS every now and again.

Thanks guys.


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Adam Inglis



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869554 - 21/10/10 04:33 AM
A little while ago I finally found the Love And Dancing album (on vinyl) not having heard the tracks for many years, and was completely gobsmacked at how good it sounds. It blows away 95% of recent dance/pop productions.

--------------------
Adam Inglis
Funboys


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869557 - 21/10/10 06:45 AM
I totally and utterly agree Adam!

When you think it would take yonks to do on Ableton Live yet Martin done it on spliced tape and hardware and back in 1982, a time when remixes just didn't exist. I don't think the younger generation appreciate how exceptional this was back then with the over supply of remixes done on laptops these days.

Hence how I thought the article, great although it was should have included this innovating piece. It was like doing a Jarre article and not including Oxygene.

In addition to my original post im starting to think Martin tells a few pork pies much like Aphex Twin. He claims she uses 30 analogue synths all going out of tune to make one sound.
Hmmmm, my Jupiter 4 can make nearly every sound used on Dare by itself. I think it more likely he just multi tracked Human Leagues J4 to make the entire album along with thr Linn druma machine.

Of course I am not knocking Martins expertise or disputing it for a second, its down to him alone my musical tastes to this day and im 37 now. But 30 synths layered???? Come on mate your having a laugh!


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The Elf
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869560 - 21/10/10 07:17 AM
Having spent the odd occasion in HL's studio it may not be such an idle boast. They had more synths propping open doors than I've ever owned!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869564 - 21/10/10 07:31 AM
Lets not forget the HL were pretty pants before (and after) Martin Rushent.

I never get how producers take such a back row of fame.
I mean, as much as Cheryl Coles music drives me mad does anyone honestly think she would know where to start with anything more than karaoke like she does if she were an island? She's what I call a Karaoke star, IE someone comes and writes the words and music and dresses her etc etc. Pretty good looking and pretty talentless really and thats it.

I honestly feel 75% of the HL's dare was Martin. I back this up by listening to Pete Shelly and ALtered images and here the exact same stuff as Dare. Shows how much Martins skills were used and how little HL.

Id never consider myself a fan of the HL. More a fan, nay disciple of Martin. To me one of the biggest shame's of music was he never lasted very long due to health reasons.

Honestly, my Jupiter 4 can make every sound of the dare LP. An its not doing an imitation either. It sounds exact. Id honestly be surprised how you would need another 29 synths to layer. It seems like extra work for the sake of it.

As much as the recording equipment used was quoted to have been £250,000 and thats back in the early 80s, I think 90% of the musical instrument side of it was nothing more than a J4 and a LinnDrum machine. This to me makes it even more special.


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fay spook



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869566 - 21/10/10 07:34 AM
You wont hear to much from Martin Rushent about the Love and Dancing LP because he didnt do much on it. It was mainly the other studio techs and he was initially against the idea. Still, both are favourites of mine for what its worth. I saw them on the Dare tour and very enjoyable it was too!!


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869568 - 21/10/10 07:39 AM
Fay from all the reports of the time and what I understand that is totally the wrong way around.

Phil Oakley entered the room whilst Martin had 100 splices of tape all over the place and said im not having anything to do with this.

It was Martin himself that made the entire Love and Dancing LP

What references do you back your post up with to say otherwise?

For a kick off heres yet another interview with SOS back in 2007 that directly explains his involvement.

<a href="/sos/feb07/articles/martinrushent.htm" target="_blank">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb07/articles/martinrushent.htm</a& gt;

Quote:

A year after the release of the Human League's Dare, Martin Rushent released one of the very first remix albums, Love And Dancing, using Dare as the raw material. The project was arguably even more influential than Dare itself, but would not have existed if it weren't for the practical need to produce material for release. "The dub mixes started because we didn't have time to do 'B' sides," admits Martin. "We'd send Virgin a track and they'd want to rush-release it. I'd been listening to Grandmaster Flash and played it to Phil. He liked it so I suggested doing a remix of 'Love Action' by chopping it up and adding effects, then we could get Virgin off our backs!
"When it was all finished I had four or five remixes. Phil wasn't sure about releasing them on an album and left me to make Love And Dancing on my own. It was mixed on a board, so I had the multitrack of Dare feeding in, a Harmonizer on send one, delay lines and phasers everywhere and I'd flick it about. I'd do a section and if I liked it I'd make a tape cut and splice it in. There were thousands of edits on the master and it took forever to do."





To re quote

Quote:

Phil wasn't sure about releasing them on an album and left me to make Love And Dancing on my own.






What your proposing is blasphemous and I will not here it unless you back it up from somewhere official. Like an interview from back in the day by someone contesting Martins involvement.

Also you can hear Martins sound all over Love and Dancing. Just listen to Pete Shelly or Altered Images leaving little to suggest he had zero input.


Would have loved to have seen the Dare tour live. Hopefully they will do another for the 30th anniversary.
(PS Never understood why the 25 year tour was done on 2007 and not 2006 as Dare was released in 1981??)


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869586 - 21/10/10 08:55 AM
Quote kolakube:

What your proposing is blasphemous and I will not here it unless you back it up from somewhere official. Like an interview from back in the day by someone contesting Martins involvement.




Behave yourself.


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869600 - 21/10/10 09:35 AM
Please elaborate


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fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869676 - 21/10/10 01:40 PM
Oh jeez. If I am wrong I will cut off my lop-sided fringe and send it to you in the post. I will look around tonight but if I cant find anything can I use the excuse of "tidying"?

It was the Dare tour in 1981 I was talking about, I saw the recent anniversary Dare tour too. I am also going to their next dates over Christmas where they are due to play "new" material!!!!


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electrohed
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869700 - 21/10/10 03:36 PM
I took over a studio project in Reading from Martin Rushent about 10 years ago. He had been ill and never properly finished building it. After they moved out we found an old and broken Yamaha CS-40m on the roof of one of the studios. I have always wondered if it was used for the bass line on Don't You Want Me...?


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869711 - 21/10/10 04:25 PM
Fay - The original tour would have been superb. I sadly missed the anniversary one as I was saying to you, I didn't even know it was on or would have went - Pah!

But why did they have it on the wrong year? Answers on a post card.

New material. hmmmm, I did like 'Tell me When' a lot but other than that im no so sure anything Rushent didn't touch was any cop. 'Human' was bloody terrible or so i though.

I think im just a fan of Rushent to be honest. Still id gladly see HL live.


Electrohed

Thats some claim to fame. I would reopen your house as an historic museum :]

Seriously, if It were not for Love and Dancing I dont think Id ever have gotten into music the way I did. My jaw hit the floor and stopped there for a week back in 82 when I was just 9 years old. Before then music never meant much to me. Since then it has been a fundamental part of each day.

Mind sadly after his breakdown Im not sure poor Martin ever recovered to what he was in the way of music. Im confident he recovered all other aspects of his life though. Why would he want too also after what happened to him.

But I can still worship the old one and give thanks to this day. Hey Christians worship Jesus and he died 2000 years ago!


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fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869757 - 21/10/10 07:23 PM
Try "Tell me when" off the Octopus album and there were some good tracks on Secrets.

The 81 gig had Huang Chung supporting....

Pete Shelley "Homosapien", best tracks are the title track and Keats' Song.

BTW if you like Dare era HL have you listened to any of the John Carpenter soundtracks? Try Assault on Precinct 13 for starters. Zombie Zombie have just put out an ep of John Carpenter covers.


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869773 - 21/10/10 08:21 PM
Fay

Yes I was saying I like Tell me When i my reply to you.

Reason you like Homosapian is because good old Martin made it for Pete. Same instruments (especially LM1 drum machine) and everything. It was made around the same time as Dare/Love and Dancing

Ill look into the other you mention, thanks :]

You should look up Altered Images if you havent. Martin at his best again banging out dance track when no one else in the UK was


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fay spook



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #869781 - 21/10/10 08:39 PM
Sorry again. My brain isnt working too well. I had it in my head you mentioned another track. You've got my fringe, what more do you want? My copy of Travelogue with the alternative Canadian sleeve?

I was just following up your mention of Pete Shelley to show MY appreciation of Mr Rushent. You are not alone.

I am of an age where Altered Images where in the charts during my teenage years and I didnt like them then. I can still be snobby enough not to like them now if that is ok?


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Dave_Bee



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870104 - 23/10/10 02:11 PM
Just a few things, Love and Dancing 12" is excellent, it's a great example of how to do that type of music, it rocks. I think anyone into HL's type of music needs to get an earfull of this record.

On a serious note, I would guess there would have been all sorts of goings on at the time between HL (Phil etc.), Martin, Virgin etc. all of which we the public would never get a single story. All I can say is, I hope they reconcile their differences (where needed) and thank them for giving us great tunes to which we aspire. Thanks guys if you're reading this.
It would seem Martin was under a great deal of pressure at the time, which folks is a horrible thing. But then I wasn't there so can't comment. Except to say.. peace and let's enjoy what they did.


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870125 - 23/10/10 05:40 PM
I was busy being a different sort of musician in the 70s and 80s and this style rather passed me by (well actually, COMPLETELY passed me by - while I'd heard of Human League, I recognized none of the titles and after half-an-hour on Spotify find I recognize none of the tunes either :-)

I don't think it's ever going to say much to me musically. But the skill involved in getting that sort of stuff onto tape is indisputable. Can someone quote me a couple of specific tracks from the album you reckon was badly produced, and from their best work?


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870137 - 23/10/10 06:32 PM
Quote:

Can someone quote me a couple of specific tracks from the album you reckon was badly produced




Nope. Not one track was produced badly on Dare at all even by modern day standards. As said Love and Dancing was 20 years ahead of its time. As one poster put above it blows most modern day remix pieces out of the water still.

Dare / Love and Dancing was the best period of the HL by a land slide. I dont think even the HL would disagree with this.
Which is why im a Martin Rushent fan and not an HL fan as such. Anything before and after Dare was nowhere near as good, but one or two were ok if viewed as in a different league.


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Exalted Wombat



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870161 - 23/10/10 08:37 PM
Quote kolakube:

Anything before and after Dare was nowhere near as good, but one or two were ok if viewed as in a different league.




A non-human league presumably? :-)


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870200 - 24/10/10 01:59 AM
Quote kolakube:




Honestly, my Jupiter 4 can make every sound of the dare LP. An its not doing an imitation either. It sounds exact. Id honestly be surprised how you would need another 29 synths to layer. It seems like extra work for the sake of it.




I agree that the "30 layers of synths to make one sound" sounds like nonsense,
but there is more on Dare than just JP4 - for example, the Roland System 700 modular synth does a lot of important stuff, such as all those things where Jo Callis' guitar is used to trigger its envelope shaper thingie

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870201 - 24/10/10 02:01 AM
I wouldn't say Martin Rushent's Human League stuff is the *only* good league - there's some *fantastic* stuff on the first two albums too.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870214 - 24/10/10 08:14 AM
@ Feline

Let me rephrase then. Every lead and bass is from the J4 and Dare is quite a sparse album really. Apart from great drum programming and vocals there is not much else bar leads and basses.

Yeah they may be a smattering of other stuff but the bread butter and backbone and I'd say at least 75% of synth sounds is all J4 multitracked. The J4 unlike most other analogues is a very unique instrument not easily emulated on other synths like a Juno or whatever. Its got one of those instantly recognisable sounds and its 75% of Dare. (Partly because its always sounds slightly out of tune but somehow isn't which I think is great in a great character type of way)

Over time I have recreated a lot of Dare on my J4 when messing about. One of the criticisms of the J4 must be it can't do very much so its not exactly a difficult instrument to master. I can make most Dare sounds within 10 minutes of turning the thing on and they sound exact in the J4's unique way.

Of course when I mess around and make these dare type sounds, (sometimes by accident) none of them ares layered at all.
So if back in the day Martin really did feel the need to multitrack, or use 30 different synths per patch he seriously wasted hit time as my single J4 does most of Dare by itself with ease. Half the time without unison also I should add.
Its amazing how thin the sound he chose were but then would fatten them up no doubt by overdriving analogue tape. I make this assumption because without plugs like the Vintage Warmer a certain raspyness to most leads is missing.
Many times he used the old trick of actually doubling up notes too. IE pressing two C notes from different octaves. Very rarely did he use the sub oscillator or as said the Unison mode.
He has said in many interview that he was trying to emulate real instruments. I guess this is why no unison or sub etc.

And definatly not with 30 other synths which is a serious exaggeration. I mean who the hell layers VST instruments 30 times that would be easy these days but what the hell would be the point??

Surely you get to a certain amount say 4 or lets be wild and say 8 sounds layered and then the next 22 are going to mask the original 8? Don't know, ive never tried it, couldn't see a point in doing this at all even in my piss simple to do DAW.
Sounds like Martin thinks the world hasn't a clue about synthesis like in the 80s so he can say any old crap and it will be believed. If this is the case for me its pointless as he already has my maximum musical respect and silly claims like this are pointless.

I mean, if each sound had 30 synths on it, where the hell would you get al of the electricity sockets

Suppose the good and bad Human League thing is subjective. How comes they didnt make a thing of note bar Tell me When since though?


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870225 - 24/10/10 10:01 AM
I saw a program on them a few weeks ago.
I believe they have reformed and are supporting, wait for it, Culture Club.

They weren't happy about that but said they needed the money.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Zukan]
      #870227 - 24/10/10 10:12 AM
Quote Zukan:

I saw a program on them a few weeks ago.
I believe they have reformed and are supporting, wait for it, Culture Club.

They weren't happy about that but said they needed the money.




I share an agent with some of what where massive bands in the 80's, it's amazing:

A. How they've frittered away such gigantic fortunes.
B. How little they can be booked for.
C. How disappointing it is when you meet then and then subsequently hear them too.

When there's biscuits in the tin, where's the fun in biscuits.....


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870232 - 24/10/10 10:58 AM
Actually, I'm not sure I agree with all of that. I have worked with a number of the bands from the 80s and most of them were really nice people and sounded great live.

Additionally, some never really spent their 'fortunes' but were ripped off or naive when signing contracts etc.
Remember, it was only when we had the Frankie/Horn legal wranglings that certain laws were put in force. Until then a lot of artistes got well screwed: Gilbert O'Sullivan being one prime example.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870239 - 24/10/10 11:16 AM
I honestly dont think any band/artist that has to rely on a producer to do three quarters of the work is ever going to get paid that much, even back when the music industry was lucrative. I mean all they have to do is look good and dance and perhaps be able to scrape an odd musical riff together for it to be made into 'their' work

Id imagine being a top producer would be where the wonga is at. I often wonder exactly how much Depeche Mode put into another of my all time great albums Violator. Guess ill never know. I do know Flood had a huge impact on it though.

Bands and Artists are nothing more than PR reps for a firm to me. It is how I have always seen it. Im not a fan of anything visual when it comes to music.

What I care about and what I become a huge fan of is the music put out under these bands names. Hence how I tend to be a fan of producers as opposed bands

X Factor and other types of such visual crap are lost on me. As is to how so many can worship a Karaoke competition where there is zero emphasis on being anything other than being able to sing others music???

Stick Cheryl Cole into a studio by her self and isolate both it and her from the outside world. Give her three months and lets see what she can do, THEN ill respect her as a musical artist.

I dont understand how/why so many people are fans of bands?
.


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Adam Inglis



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870240 - 24/10/10 11:30 AM
Quote kolakube:

I dont understand how/why so many people are fans of bands?




You're just saying this to stand back and watch the entertainment aren't you!!

--------------------
Adam Inglis
Funboys


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870244 - 24/10/10 11:55 AM
Quote kolakube:

@ Feline

Let me rephrase then. Every lead and bass is from the J4 and Dare is quite a sparse album really. Apart from great drum programming and vocals there is not much else bar leads and basses.

...

Suppose the good and bad Human League thing is subjective. How comes they didnt make a thing of note bar Tell me When since though?




Kolakube, it lists the synths used on Dare on the album sleeve, they're not *all* JP4 (although I agree, many of the best sounds are - in particular, SECONDS is all about the JP4's unison mode, where you get 2VCOs per note when you press 2 keys, or 1 per note when you play 3 or 4 keys).

Another signature sound on it is the Casio VLtone calculator thingie, which does a lot of the piping lead sounds (Open Your Heart, Things That Dreams are Made of, and *all* of Get Carter!

There are usually a few good songs on most of the League albums after Dare, although the production is a bit meh .... I also love "Love Me Madly?" on the Secrets album, the sound of that was total kick ass synth meat and the bridge is fantastic and the lyrics and loltastic as any classic Oakey. It was a great shame that their record label went bust before it could be released as a single!

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870257 - 24/10/10 01:28 PM
Adam - No I really mean it. A band is nothing more than a PR section to me. WHat talent do they usually bring if a producer has to do the majority of the work? I honestly don't get it. Nor do I get a band saying that is there work when they hardly done a thing.

Feline - Yeah im aware of the suggested instruments. If you don't want to believe me thats fine. I have a Jupiter 4 here with me and it does most if not all of the sounds of dare by accident. And its such a distinct sounding instrument I am not mistaking its use on dare.


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870265 - 24/10/10 02:07 PM
I know the JP4 is lovely (I've used one many times myself) and I know it's all over Dare, and I know Rushent was spinning a yarn with this "30 layered synths for one sound" quip...
The other synths listed on the sleeve of Dare are, however, all used on the album, with the Linn drum, the System 700 modular and the Casio being particularly noticable too.

Also I'd challenge you to get the closing synth-sears of "Sound of the Crowd" sounding *quite* that good on the JP4 alone. The System 700 had 9 oscillators, which may have helped

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870292 - 24/10/10 06:10 PM
What sound re sound of the crowd mate? Link me to you tube and a time it comes in at.

I do believe other synths were used make up 25% of the album. Of course the only way I can proove this is to re create the whole thing with my J4. Give me 5 mins then

(Yeah Lynn drum is used as much as the J4but that isn't a synth.)


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870308 - 24/10/10 09:09 PM
Have a listen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAb1ErIF1M
at 2'33"

I'm talking about the big phat seething searing descending notes that come in behind the chorus.
Of course, you could make a fair stab at those by using a JP4 PWMming in 4VCO unison mode and slapping a bit of reverb on, but it does sound a bit "layered" to me - maybe 2 or 3 JP4s or other analogue layers (not 30 though, obviously .

The League sound pretty damn good live these days, but that bit always disappoints me when they do Sound of the Crowd, there's never enough massed oscillator seething, it always sounds a bit weedy.
I remember they did it on Jools Holland in about 1995 and it was awful! I think they used a Roland JD500 or sthg - naff!

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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feline1
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870310 - 24/10/10 09:10 PM
Btw way, the other main synth riff on Sound of the Crowd has a squelchy bandpass filter layered with a clunky woody bass sound,
neither of which you can do on a JP4

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870347 - 25/10/10 08:30 AM
Quote:


Have a listen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAb1ErIF1M
at 2'33"

I'm talking about the big phat seething searing descending notes that come in behind the chorus.
Of course, you could make a fair stab at those by using a JP4 PWMming in 4VCO unison mode and slapping a bit of reverb on, but it does sound a bit "layered" to me - maybe 2 or 3 JP4s or other analogue layers (not 30 though, obviously .







2.33?? The saw wave??

Feline, have you even heard a Jupiter 4 before??

I ask because this is nothing more than the bog standard J4 Saw sound. Sort of 'the' staple lead sound of the J4. Its hard to get the saw NOT to sound like that. Ill upload sound files if you like, if you tell me how.

It's not unison mode either, or mutitracked J4s at all or any other magic.
Its Poly mode and two octaves played at once like I told you earlier in this thread. A simple Saw wave with the J4s constantly out of tune but not out of tune charm and some FX on it and over driven tubes and analogue tape to give it the raspyness.

(Incidentally the bass sound is also the exact same as the searning saw wave you refer to, just lower down on the keyboard. )

Again, have you ever used or even seen a real life J4?

Im taken aback as you protested so confidently above with how little the J4 is used yet think it cannot make this, a sound my 3 year daughter could make. I stress, its hard not to make that type of saw.

Left scratching my head a little here.


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Steve A
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870443 - 25/10/10 01:26 PM
I have to say I am with Feline on this one. Like him, I have also used a JP4 in the past and I certainly recognise it on many of the tracks, but not to the extent that I can agree with your initial assertion that the album must have been pretty much all JP4 plus the drum machine.

For example, have a listen to this and then tell me that you still think all the polyphonic strings sounds on Dare are definitely JP4.

It's also worth remembering that the JP4 didn't have CV gate inputs and so couldn't be sequenced. Now I know a lot of it was played by hand, but some of it certainly wasn't - if not, what was the MC8 doing?

As you said yourself earlier on, however well intentioned, you've got to be a little careful about presenting theories as unassailable facts unless the people involved can be directly quoted to back you up. Witness the number of times the Jupiter 8 is wrongly credited for the arpeggiator in 'Rio'.

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Kolakube



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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Steve A]
      #870448 - 25/10/10 02:00 PM
Mate the strings on that JP8000 are close but not right.

Lets take it one step at a time also. The 'phat' (as Feline termed) strings on the video of one of the crowd Feline linked to are most certainly Jupiter 4. This is without doubt.

The kit list used on Dare was published in an early 80s music magazine and since has been pasted onto the wikipedia Dare page.

If the poly strings are not Jupiter 4 then they must be one of a few other poly synths used and since my J4 does then all perfectly.

Of course the fact Phil Oakly is quoted saying the Jupiter 4 will be tattooed on his heart for ever sort of points too this also.

And lastly the fact the J4 doeesnt exaclty do a wide veritiy of sounds.

Has anyone here actually got a J4 in front of the right now? If not when was the last time you used one?

I switch my J4 on and am constantly reminded of Dare. As I keep saying it is a very unique sounding instrument. A Jupiter 6 and 8 sound nothing like it I believe down to its out of tune but in tune nature. Infact its sometimes very difficult go get away from that sort of sound which sits fine with me.

Im not doubting you could get close with a JP8000. But you can get bang on with the J4.

Anyhow, I grow tired of trying to get my point across. Why am I trying to get people to see the light especially when people like Feline obviously haven't even heard a J4 ever or at least this decade as that 'phat' saw sound is as soon as you switch it on and set it to Saw wave?

Ok, ill concede. And not to be an arse just this thread is taking up too much of my time arguing points that are irrelevant really. So your right, the J4 is seldom used and I was drastically in error . That 'phat' sound isnt J4 at all. My J4 is obviously totally unique.


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fatbenelton
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Joined: 22/08/02
Posts: 623
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870450 - 25/10/10 02:20 PM
Steady on chaps!

Kola, I don't think anybody is denying that the JP4 was used extensively on Dare, they are just challenging your assertion that it was used almost exclusively...

I think we can all agree that the JP4 was used a lot but that other instruments played a part as well. As an example, to use your own argument unless you have a System 700 in front of you you can't say for sure what it did/didn't do - maybe it's very Jupiter 4 ish in its organic nature! Let's not forget the Korg Delta as well....

all the best

Jon

Edited by fatbenelton (25/10/10 02:23 PM)


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Kolakube



Joined: 01/12/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: Geordieland
Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870451 - 25/10/10 02:24 PM
Yeah sorry reading that back its a bit snappy. Sorry under a lot of pressure at the mo. My apologies.


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Steve A
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Joined: 07/08/02
Posts: 344
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870458 - 25/10/10 02:57 PM
Quote kolakube:

Mate the strings on that JP8000 are close but not right.




For the record, the top end strings on that video are being played on an actual Korg Delta, which is listed on the sleeve notes of the album as one of the instruments used, and to my ears it is exactly the same sound, taking into account it's an off camera audio recording.

I do not currently own a JP4 (in fact, I'm jealous of you for having one!), but I wouldn't wade into a debate on a topic like this about a specific synth unless I had sufficient personal experience of the model in question to be able to make reasonably informed comment.

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Steve A
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Joined: 07/08/02
Posts: 344
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Re: Human League article in SOS July 2010 new [Re: Kolakube]
      #870474 - 25/10/10 03:26 PM
Sorry, just read your last post, immediately above mine. Fair play.

I'm actually with you on pretty much everything else you say, Dare is an all time favourite of mine and I have always been a great admirer of Martin's work on the album and very much regret that they parted company. I suspect yet greater things were to come.

I do feel that the rest of the latter day catalogue is not without merit though, although I will admit there have been times throughout their career where my loyalty has been, shall we say, 'tested'.

Word on the street is that the forthcoming new single is very good and bodes well for the album. Fingers crossed.

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