techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
#873752 - 09/11/10 06:30 PM
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This will be my first post on the SOS forums. I figured this would be a good story to
tell. I’m sure someone can relate to this. I could also use some advice from those that
have more experience than me.
So I got a gig as a sound guy for a local act.
They have only played out one time before as a 5 piece and ran there own sound. Small bars
150 people max. They needed a guy to help out so I figured this would be a great learning
experience as I wanted to advance my skills. I am not super experienced but I am not a
total newb either. You have start somewhere and what better way to do it than with a
inexperienced band. The best part is they have all there own PA gear. They just wanted
someone to set it up and run it. So I get to meet the guys at a rehearsal at least to go
over some of the gear. Try and get as familiar with it as possible. The rehearsal goes
well so we pack up for the gig the next day. Knowing full well that they don’t have a
snake but just purchased one used from this guy and never tested it. I have no idea what
connectors are on this thing etc. Great! I go home that night and pack up all the odd
adapters I can scrounge up knowing something is going to not be right.
So I
suggested we show up to the gig as early as possible to get ready. For me and for them,
but mostly for me. They all agree and supposedly the club owner says we can start setting
up at 6 for a show starting at 9. “3 hours” I say to myself, plenty of time to set up
and get this right. The joy ends right there. I am sure people reading this know this
story before they read it but this was my first time setting up an entire rig that I never
set up before. So this is gonna be great!
We get there at 6pm. The owner says
you can’t load our gear in! What! Well hold on a second. The trailer is double parked
while we wait patiently. “OK” he says, “You can load all you gear in the
basement”. At least we can get the gear in there. We load all our gear in the basement
and head to the stage to scope it out. The manager says they have placed a party on the
stage and we can’t set up till they leave. So we just sit down to eat dinner thinking
that we could at least get on the stage at 8 for 9. It is now 6:30pm.
9:30 We
are finally allowed to take our gear from the basement to place near the stage. Great! So
now we have our stuff at least close to the stage.
10:30 OK, the management
starts to shuffle the guests off the stage and move all the tables off the stage. Remember
we are supposed to START at 9pm and have been there since 6! Meanwhile we have to lug our
stuff through the crowd and put all of it on the stage. So we end up moving things two or
three times to maneuver the gear around. I am grabbing cables and connecting things as
fast as I can. I am thinking to myself “This is going to be awesome!”
11:30 Everything is finally plugged in. The snake that did show up by the way has all
the wrong connectors on the returns and we don’t have enough adapters. The two I brought
is just not enough. It’s all I had. So we condense the monitor feeds and run some super
long single cables to the stage. It looks like total spaghetti. I should have taken a
picture. Then, since the board is plugged in basically the same as practice, which
doesn’t use the monitor feeds, they decide to just start. Sound check consists of
everyone just making noise and they can hear it. While our 2 seconds of sound check goes
on the manager says since WE started late there are no set breaks. People will leave.
Perfect! The talkback mic channel doesn’t work at all. So I am just pointing and
shouting.
11:32 The band just starts. I am fighting with feedback and trying
to make things sound the best I can. Half way through the first song I get both managers
and a crowd member telling me they can’t hear something in my left ear and my right ear
is 4’ from the main PA speaker. Shocking really, I mean we had ample time to set up!
This is going as smoothly as a fart in church. The vocal processor for the lead singer is
on full wet and I can’t figure out why. I received and plugged in a dry and wet feed. I
am looking at cable markings on my end and still I don’t understand why. I knew I
plugged this into that channel? I figure out that the cables are labeled wrong on both
ends. So one end there is double tape and the other end is nothing. Meanwhile the end I
have has double tape on it. So the first few songs sound like crap till I realized what
was going on. Rookie mistake I trusted a labeled cable and didn’t check both ends. I
would assume if you label something on one end you would do it on another. Silly me.
11:45 Things start to get leveled out and to me 4’ from the PA I think it is OK.
The board sums Mon 1 and 2 together so you can’t listen to the individual monitor feeds
in a pair of headphones. So I have no idea what the bands monitors sound like. I am trying
to listen to individual channels but being this close to the PA nothing is working for me.
Half of the PFL switches don’t work! I can’t hear a damn thing except loudness. I also
set up the groups in a way that I could not monitor the main outputs properly in my
headphones. So I screwed the pooch on that one. The band wasn’t stopping between songs
at all so I didn’t want to make any drastic changes on the fly and really risk screwing
something things up even worse.
12am Things are running and at least it
doesn’t sound atrocious in the crowd. I walked out a few times to the back of the room
and to me at the time it sounded OK. I made the terrible mistake of recording my feeds
from the speaker processors. I told the band I would so they could hear each other
afterwards. Looking back I should have told them I didn’t catch a recording and forgot.
I know that the board feed isn’t exactly what the crowd hears. I don’t think they
seemed to get that.
2am We shut down and pack up. I am exhausted and my ears
are killing me even when trying to use ear plugs. I don’t get home till 4am. One more
thing, I didn’t get paid either! Then everyone lets me know they couldn’t hear
themselves. WTF! So I am just chalking it up as a learning experience.
So this
is my experience the first time I ran sound solo. I learned a whole lot of what not to do
and what to remember for the next time. You don’t start out on top you have to start at
the bottom. Any comments, laughter, criticism is welcome. I figure someone will get a
laugh out of this. I did the next day. I realize this is low end bar sound not anything
special. But, I always want to make things sound there best in whatever I do. So I am sure
someone can relate to this. I will never forget this experience as long as I live.
If you made it to the end of this story thank you.
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OneWorld
Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1566
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873754 - 09/11/10 06:39 PM
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That's Rock & Roll!
By the way Junkie - did that cure your addiction!
By the sounds of that, it can only get better from here on in
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turbodave
Joined: 25/04/08
Posts: 2104
Loc: derbyshire uk
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873756 - 09/11/10 06:43 PM
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Hi, Poor you! For a start, having to wait all that time and then getting complaints of
tardiness would have got me going home with my gear with Vs flashing out of my car window.
I would have done a side of stage mix also, as in keep the band happy with
monitors, reduce the cabling (not use snake) and work from vocals up.
If you can
get the monitors passable in the first 2 numbers , then do a walk around, that is
preferable.
Don't forget quiet and intelligible is better than loud with feedback,
as most people don't notice a bad sound until feedback appears, then you get stared at by
numpties.
Better luck next time.. Dave
-------------------- My head hurts!
Edited by turbodave (09/11/10 06:44 PM)
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: OneWorld]
#873759 - 09/11/10 06:54 PM
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It cured my addiction until the following day. Then I just wanted to get better at it. So
I actually feel more inclined to do it again so I can get it right. So I guess I will
never be cured.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: turbodave]
#873765 - 09/11/10 07:08 PM
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Thanks for the reply. The complaints from the management were a little ridiculous. Next
time I run into this situation I am gonna take your advice. Run sound from the side of the
stage. It would have made the band happier if there monitor mix was correct first. Lesson
learned!
The best part is it can only get better. It sure can't get
any worse. I hope?
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Scramble
active member
Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 1665
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873766 - 09/11/10 07:12 PM
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Sounds like a dream gig to me!
Seriously, that sort of crap happens all too
often at the lower end of the scale. It's one reason why you want to get moving up to
better gigs.
But at least it's the sort of thing that gives you "experience". A
few such gigs can be a good thing, as long as they don't just make you give up. They teach
you to think on your feet, they teach you to be prepared, they teach you what can go
wrong, they teach you to be wary of promising too much (eg. offering a recording from the
desk), etc. But you don't want too many of them!
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Scramble]
#873770 - 09/11/10 07:31 PM
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It was a dream alright! If I have more dreams like this please smack me in the face!
I realize that local low end stuff is going to suck. I didn't realize or fathom
that is would ever suck that bad. But I didn't walk out. I did the best I can with what I
had. I would rather completely botch a small gig and work my way up that mess up a gig
that really matters.
The experience I learned from this is going to stick
with me for a long,long,long time! Being a tech guy looking back I was unprepared. I know
better now. I have another gig with these guys this weekend and will be much more prepared
for this one. Same kind of bar but again, "We can set up at 6". So we will see how it
goes. Not getting paid for the last one stinks but I need the experience and you just have
to start somewhere.
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Folderol
Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 2545
Loc: Rochester, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873797 - 09/11/10 10:11 PM
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You have my sympathies!
Do let us know how you get on next week.
-------------------- It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)
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Nathan
Joined: 13/09/04
Posts: 1872
Loc: lincolnshire government experi...
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Folderol]
#873830 - 10/11/10 06:38 AM
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why didn't you get paid?
>
-------------------- planet nine
lincoln, uk.
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Big Kev
Joined: 24/02/06
Posts: 183
Loc: Sunny Shropshire
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873836 - 10/11/10 08:24 AM
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Everyone around you will always try to convince you that everything will run smoothly.
Don't listen to them. There are limitations to what you can do and even experienced people
would either struggle at what you where dealt with or walk away when things started going
pear shaped.
You have to be prepared to stand your ground and tell people the
way it is. If it takes an hour to set up and you've been offered half an hour then
obviously something is going to go wrong. You find out who has the weight and tell them.
Either get the stage emptied or your pulling the gig. You'd be amazed how things like that
get things moving. You don't have to abusive but just firm (otherwise you'll probably get
the opposite reaction!). You'd do the same in any other line of business.
The
biggest wake up call I got was when playing in a band many years ago at a festival. We
were playing one of the smaller stages and needed to set-up and do a quick sound check.
All the engineers etc were nowhere to be seen. By the time I managed to find a member of
staff I was quite wound up to say the least, as we thought we were going to miss our slot.
So I basically lost my rag and said we were going to pack up and head off home. He got on
the radio and within minutes there were people everywhere sorting stuff out.
Obviously it is always best to work through a problem and try your best to get it sorted
but there are times when you need to point out that either you get help or there are going
to be certain compromises! (i.e. shite sound, feedback, bad monitor mixes etc).
-------------------- I met a strange lady, she made me nervous; she took me in and gave me breakfast
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grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2626
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873857 - 10/11/10 10:17 AM
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No money?! As the soundman for something like this, you should *always* be getting an
equal band-member's share. That's the standard rate for small gigs. Larger gigs you can
do a fixed fee instead, but generally a band-member's share for a small gig comes out at
less than minimum wage anyway. And if the band were doing this for nothing, I
suspect most people would have walked if the event organiser/manager had treated them like
that. It's not about being prima donnas, it's about refusing to be doormats. Or at the
very least, say "we're booked to play until 12, and it's up to you when we start". Hell,
even for money it's not worth being treated like that, especially at pub-gig rates. As regards the recording, the standard line has to be "if I have time". The gig
comes first, and if everything goes to worms then the recording is the *very* last thing
you look at. Anyway, sounds like you did a decent job in a really crappy
situation. And "that which does not kill us..."
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shufflebeat
Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 2272
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873863 - 10/11/10 10:28 AM
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Hi, TJ and welcome.
Mucho sympathy for your experience. There are some
positives you can take from it though. The next time someone dangles a nice shiny piece of
kit in front of you you'll know not to rely on it (snake) without having used it in a
combat situation. Once everybody's smiling you can experiment with the new toys to your
heart's content. In the case of the snake I suppose half an hour with a cheap cable tester
(Behringer, etc.) in would have been the one, but we live and learn.
Also, the
bonus of working for peanuts/free is that you always have the nuclear option of "you've
had your money's worth, now f*@# off".
Unprofessional I know but sometimes
knowing you could if you wanted keeps you positive.
Sounds like you could have
done with a simpler system, by the way. Maybe less is more.
-------------------- Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".
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shufflebeat
Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 2272
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: grab]
#873873 - 10/11/10 11:13 AM
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Quote grab:
No money?! As the
soundman for something like this, you should *always* be getting an equal band-member's
share. That's the standard rate for small gigs. Larger gigs you can do a fixed fee
instead, but generally a band-member's share for a small gig comes out at less than
minimum wage anyway.
And if the band were doing this for nothing, I suspect
most people would have walked if the event organiser/manager had treated them like that.
It's not about being prima donnas, it's about refusing to be doormats.
While I wouldn't disagree with any of this I
would qualify it by pointing out that every experience is a learning one and it's better
to be out doing something than sat at home talking about it. What you learn in these
situations is never forgotten. Sometimes it's just unrealistic to be demanding minimum pay
rates (these words are very difficult to write) so profit from the event in some other
way... ...and have some fun. Sounds like you've got that one covered anyway.
-------------------- Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Nathan]
#873884 - 10/11/10 12:10 PM
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Nathan
I suspect the band leader didn't like how I handled the stage sound or
whatever and decided to just bail at the end of the night. If it happens this week I can
surely tell them to F#$^ off.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Big Kev]
#873885 - 10/11/10 12:12 PM
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Big Kev
Good advice. If I see a situation forming like this again, I will
just need to be the proactive one with a set and get things movin.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: shufflebeat]
#873886 - 10/11/10 12:15 PM
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shufflebeat
Good advice as well. The Behringer cable tester is top on my to get
list. Defiantly going to simplify this weekend.
Thank you
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: grab]
#873889 - 10/11/10 12:21 PM
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Grad
This weekend my focus is just to get it right. If I only get 2-5min to
sound check I will be prepared much better this time. The recording is the last possible
thing I am going to do if at all.
At least now I can say I am experienced.
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tacitus
Joined: 04/02/08
Posts: 754
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873895 - 10/11/10 12:33 PM
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Experienced, yes. Very experienced, no. Just remember that what goes wrong on one gig
isn't what will go wrong on the next one - the moment you've kicked the dog away that's
biting your balls, another one bites your bum! After the first few dozen gigs you'll see.
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James Perrett
Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 9650
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873909 - 10/11/10 01:33 PM
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The very mention of a vocal processor makes me think that you are possibly more used to
studio sound. In a situation like this you want things as simple as possible. If you don't
have a digital desk, lose all the processing and effects until you get more experienced.
Effects and processing always seem to be the downfall of inexperienced engineers. You will
often get better results without them. James.
-------------------- JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: James Perrett]
#873925 - 10/11/10 02:44 PM
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James Perrett You are correct sir. I am way more used to studio sound. This is
one reason why I want to get out there and more familiar with live sound and live
situations. I agree a super simple rig would be much better but these guys insisted on the
effects. There were 5 effects processors in total. To me it's ridiculous for a small
bar/club. But it's there rig. They just want someone to run it. This doesn't mean the next
time I will actually use the effects.  If it was
my rig then I would have a little more say in what goes and what stays. Live and learn. I
lived and I certainly learned. Thanks for the advice.
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OneWorld
Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1566
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873929 - 10/11/10 03:10 PM
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Quote techjunkie:
It cured my
addiction until the following day. Then I just wanted to get better at it. So I actually
feel more inclined to do it again so I can get it right. So I guess I will never be cured.
Good on you - am sure as you
build up more experience you'll sort all the technical issues and learn to deal with the
unhelpful management etc
If you know you're right, then you are - all the best
and good luck.
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Steve Hill
member
Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13140
Loc: Oxfordshire
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873941 - 10/11/10 03:24 PM
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Did the band get paid?
If so, in the near-impossible circumstances you
describe, I see no reason why the band should be enriched by not paying you.
-------------------- Dynamite with a laser beam...
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Nathan
Joined: 13/09/04
Posts: 1872
Loc: lincolnshire government experi...
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Steve Hill]
#873959 - 10/11/10 03:55 PM
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Find out where he lives, invoice him.
>
-------------------- planet nine
lincoln, uk.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Steve Hill]
#873963 - 10/11/10 04:03 PM
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I don't know for sure. I didn't see money exchange hands from the club manager to the band
leader. But I would assume, that since the band leader and the manager were chatting for
some time after the gig that this is when the money exchanged hands. He came back out of
the club and quickly bolted. It was clear before the gig that I would get paid X amount.
Granted it was pocket change but if you were told you would get paid X then you would
expect to at the end of the night. If it was understood that I would work for free, which
I would now since I am not very experienced, then it would be fine.
Another
lesson learned.
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Nathan
Joined: 13/09/04
Posts: 1872
Loc: lincolnshire government experi...
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873968 - 10/11/10 04:14 PM
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Stand your ground; don't emphasise your lack of live experience; explain that you did the
best possible with the equipment available and the situation and timeslot given. In short
you have been more professional than the bandleader in leaving without even explaining why
he hasn't paid you. I'm quite prepared to join you on you next gig with them so
I can point out how shite he is from a professional and very experienced context  >
-------------------- planet nine
lincoln, uk.
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marksound
Joined: 23/11/04
Posts: 28
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#873969 - 10/11/10 04:18 PM
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I have done loads of gigs similar to what you describe but with slightly better results
LOL. I once turned up to a function at 3pm by request and could not set up til 12pm
or make any noise and the band went on at 12:45 and i got paid less money than
agreed-nowadays i would not be quite as accomodating Wedding band gigs where there
is a noise limiter are probably the worst and the audience sing-a-long tripping the
limiter in every song so you have to completely turn off the FOH and just have monitors
,put a vinyl record matt on the snare , beg the band to turn down and stand on a chair all
night pushing noise limiter buttons and rushing to the kitchen and untripping fuses.Also
you get drunken audience members doing bizarre things like balancing a glass of wine on
the aperture of the HF horn on a wedge or mistaking the wedding video camera man's ambient
ceiling mics for the noise limiter mic and detaching them but in doing so pulling all the
overhead xlr leads down which get entangled in the decorations etc Once you have
done a few quick set up gigs like this ,you will learn that the trick is to pare down the
amount of kit you use -maybe daisy chaining the monitors,use all self powered speakers,
forget using a sub just run a bit of kick through the wedges[as long as they are fairly
decent] , do a vocals/kick/bass/keyboard/acc gt mono mix only and using a mix wiz or
similar with built in reverb and just use one stereo 31 band graphic and no comps
/gates Its best to forget multicores ,recording,complicated IEM's at this level of
gigging as you tend to take your eye off the main job of giving the audience a clear vocal
mix with no feedback. Prep the system before the performance eliminating any feedback
issues by talking into one mic and duplicating that eq/level on every vocal channel. You will find that these type of gigs throw up unexpected problems like bad electrical
power or shared low power generators with the ovens and lights .Last minute
furniture/dancefloor/stage removal is also a bugbear . Experience and reliable
quality equipment is everything in this business Always carry a cable tester/torch
/gaffa tape /screw drivers/plyers/spare DI boxes /mini jack to mono jack leads / spare 4
way plugboards / spare xlr leads and a hi-hat clutch
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: marksound]
#873978 - 10/11/10 04:43 PM
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Thanks Nathan. I appreciate the support.
Marksound
Thank you for the
advice and colorful stories. I will be sure too add your suggested tools to my must have
tool box. I made a pile of adapters this week already for these guys. I hate being
unprepared. Oh and I labeled my cables properly on both ends! But you can't have
everything off the bat. Your advice on the vocal channels is pure gold. Thank you! I will
be using this tip for sure.
Thank you everyone for your advice it is greatly
appreciated.
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grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2626
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: shufflebeat]
#873990 - 10/11/10 05:46 PM
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Quote:
While I wouldn't disagree
with any of this I would qualify it by pointing out that every experience is a learning
one and it's better to be out doing something than sat at home talking about it.
Sure - I've spent the last 2-3 years
doing free work regularly for a friend who runs a couple of live venues. Her finances are
enough on the edge that I wasn't going to crap on her, especially when I was enjoying it.
And the bands almost all weren't paid anyway.
But if you're hired by the band,
and it's an event, and the band's getting paid for it, then you really should be getting
cash in your hand at the end of the night. Unless you did sign up for a free trial, of
course, but even then they shouldn't expect more than one free gig out of you if you're
doing a reasonably OK job.
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shufflebeat
Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 2272
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: grab]
#874032 - 10/11/10 08:52 PM
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Quote grab:
Quote:
While I wouldn't
disagree with any of this I would qualify it by pointing out that every experience is a
learning one and it's better to be out doing something than sat at home talking about
it.
Sure - I've spent the
last 2-3 years doing free work regularly for a friend who runs a couple of live venues.
Her finances are enough on the edge that I wasn't going to crap on her, especially when I
was enjoying it. And the bands almost all weren't paid anyway.
But if you're
hired by the band, and it's an event, and the band's getting paid for it, then you really
should be getting cash in your hand at the end of the night. Unless you did sign up for a
free trial, of course, but even then they shouldn't expect more than one free gig out of
you if you're doing a reasonably OK job.
Quite right, too. A deal's a deal. Strictly speaking even if the
band didn't get paid that's not my problem. In the circumstances, though I'd not spend too
much time or headspace chasing peanuts.
I would, however:
Speak to
the band leader (calmly) as though the deal was still my understanding "with everything
going on we forgot to sort out my money".
If the guy is not forthcoming hint
that this is a bad way to start what might be an ongoing arrangement with his band being
so good and you being such a fan, etc.
Be very clear what were the shortcomings
of the gear and how difficult the management had made things for everyone, band and you
(Good chance to deflect negative attention).
Outline how good the gig could
have been. Include advice mentioned here, simpler system, etc.
All this is much
easier to argue however when you have robust confidence in your own skills and experience
to back it up.
-------------------- Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: shufflebeat]
#874062 - 11/11/10 12:14 AM
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Shufflebeat
You make some good points. I am going to hold my tongue till the
end of the gig this weekend. Then see what happens. If everything falls apart again then I
should be able to deal with it a little better. Half the crap that was connected last week
is just gonna look pretty this weekend. But if everything goes off well without any major
problems and I don't get paid. Then I shall approach him. It will give me a little more to
work with having a gig that went over smoothly. He will be in a better mood too.
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damoore
Joined: 05/07/09
Posts: 325
Loc: New Hampshire
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#874066 - 11/11/10 12:29 AM
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You survived - under some very difficult circs - that is an achievement all by itself.
Your first time out, you have to expect some screw ups. You were then given a raw
deal all ends up on top. The fact that you hung in there and kept working on it, and also
that you had sense to leave well enough alone, is laudible.
Not getting paid
really sucks though - as soon as you can, find better people to work for. If you blow that
off, remember that no good deed ever goes unpunished.
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Scramble
active member
Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 1665
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: damoore]
#874166 - 11/11/10 12:39 PM
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With my band I *always* pay the sound guy even if the band doesn't get paid, and even if
he's a mate and you're doing him a favour by giving him experience. And even if he does a
rubbish job (if he does a rubbish job, you just don't use him again). This applies no
matter how small and crappy the gig.
Firstly, it's a legal, or at least a
moral, issue -- you promised to pay them, so you should. Secondly, get a rep for not
paying your soundmen and you might find them hard to come by. Thirdly (unless you're very
small-scale), the soundman is a really important part of the band and should be looked
after (but they're not actually in the band, which is why you have to pay them).
I've even paid soundguys for helping out with "dress rehearsals" where we have gone to a
local club or hall and set up all the gear to rehearse in a more realistic environment and
to check that everything is working properly.
I also pay soundguys who do
nothing but turn up just before the gig, twiddle the knobs and go away, although they
don't get as much as the guys who help lug gear in and set up and break down
afterwards.
So if I was you I would blow these guys off right now, and tell
them to stick their 5 FX units up their behinds. But it's clear that you want to give them
another chance. Make sure that's their last chance.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Scramble]
#874185 - 11/11/10 01:40 PM
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Scramble
Thank you for the advice. Nice to hear someone is taking care of there
sound man even if they are not the best at it. I did help them lug everything in and out.
Setup, tear down and pack it back up. Everyone in the band did as well too. I did help
from the start to the very end. The town I live in isn't too large so to find work is
tough. Getting a bad rep isn't a good idea either. What goes around comes around. Just
starting out in live sound I don't want to make it seem like I flake out easily.
A dress rehearsal is a brilliant idea! I have a feeling if I mentioned it that it is not
going to happen. I would prefer it. It would show all the flaws in the system in a zero
pressure environment and they can all get worked out. Learning that you don't have
everything you need at a gig is pretty bad when it's your rig. Before a product gets sold
it's tested right? I am amazed at how many people are at the finish line without figuring
how to get there. E.g. connectors, cabling, DI's, routing etc. etc.
I am
giving this one more chance this weekend and if I don't get paid and it goes over well or
not, I will part ways. That way I can say and they will know.
1. I acted
professional and didn't loose my cool. 2. Stuck with a situation under crap cirs. 3. Did what I said I would do. This to me is the most important.
5 FX units
is a little ridiculous. Maybe they should sell all of them and get a board with everything
that works and has a built in reverb? Simple!
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#874676 - 13/11/10 03:43 PM
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This Weeks update. So I said I would update how this gig went. Overall this gig
went super smooth! We had ample time to set up. I had ample time to do what I needed to to
and connect everything properly. I was able to be out in the crowd area instead of right
by the PA. Most importantly, we had the time to do a proper sound check! I took some
advice form this thread and sound checked a vocal channel and duplicated the settings on
all the channels. Awesome by the way! Thank you. I brought the tools suggested in this
thread, extra DI's, cables etc. Needed all my DI's and all my extra cables to make things
work. We had a few cable problems but nothing that wasn't fixed in a short period of time.
The sound check for the most part was organized and I had a talk back mic working so it
went rather quickly. The band had a monitor mix that they were really happy with. I almost
fell of my chair when one guy told me he needed to be turned down. He is usually the me,
me, me guy. After about a 15min sound check we started and after a song or two
everything was dialed in and I really didn't have to do much. There we some effects
processors looking rather pretty that evening if you know what I mean.  Overall I
am much happier than last weekend. I had everything as simple as possible and got the
groups right. I could then monitor the main output in my headphones. The band could hear
themselves and there were multiple people saying they liked the sound. I wasn't pushing it
to ear piercing levels. Just enough so if your in the dance area you can feel it. 10' back
was about 95db. Yes, I do carry a db meter. At the bar people could talk. The managers at
this place were really happy with that. The best part. I finally got paid! So
I am chalking the first experience up as a learning experience. That experience taught me
to simply be more prepared. This week it paid off.  Thank you everyone for your advice. I really do appreciate it. I can't wait to do
the next gig!
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Cattytown
Joined: 13/11/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Bolton, England.
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#874691 - 13/11/10 04:56 PM
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Glad to hear your second gig went better. More experience and the situation of the first
gig would be easier to deal with.
I have done a fair bit of live sound in a
specialist music scene. The important bits I have learnt are. 1. Get to know the
gear. Set it up and tear it down a few times. The band rehearse their bit - why shouldn't
you? 2. The vocal channel is the money channel. That should be clear and audible. In
a stress situation like the first gig, the only thing though FOH for the first song with
me would have been the lead vocal. Other stuff can come as needed later. 3. It isn't
a recording. Like the band dropping the odd note you may make the odd slip. It has gone.
Live with it. Perfection is rarely possible. Feel matters more than polish. 3. Keep
monitors as low as you can get away with. This may mean asking the band to turn down a
little. It should be unusual at bar gig size venues that someone standing in front of
their own amp should need themselves in the monitors. Amp stands help with this - lift it
and aim it at their head. 4. Keep sounds in monitors as dry as possible - certainly
vocals in monitors should not have compressors on them. 5. Learn to coil cables. It
only takes a little while to get the hang, then takes no longer than any other method of
putting them away, but they come out so much easier. 5. Carry spare cables. I used to
just carry *lots* of 5M XLR leads. I had a few shorter coloured ones for round the drums
so I could put the mics in place then just pop green in the kick channel, blue for snare,
red for right OH and purple for left. While 5M may seem a little short to get across a
stage, just join two. you will also not have too much extra cable to tuck away.
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Folderol
Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 2545
Loc: Rochester, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#874694 - 13/11/10 05:27 PM
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Very pleased to hear this one went so much better  Just
remember you're still going to get bad ones occasionally - so don't get complacent
-------------------- It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Folderol]
#874707 - 13/11/10 06:52 PM
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I am sure the will be plenty of mistakes or tough gigs in the future but at least I know
now what a good gig feels like. From this gig I have a list of must haves and needs for
the next one. So each one will build on the next. Hopefully if the band stays together and
I can still get work in a year or two I will be much better at this with a more robust
engineers tool box.
I already mentioned that I would like to do a full gear
gig rehearsal. We will see how that goes. I fully agree I should practice as the sound guy
setting up. But, it's not my gear so I am at the mercy of when I can use it.
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techjunkie
Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 18
Loc: CA, USA
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: Cattytown]
#874708 - 13/11/10 06:55 PM
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Quote Cattytown:
Glad to hear
your second gig went better. More experience and the situation of the first gig would be
easier to deal with.
I have done a fair bit of live sound in a specialist music
scene. The important bits I have learnt are. 1. Get to know the gear. Set it up and
tear it down a few times. The band rehearse their bit - why shouldn't you? 2. The
vocal channel is the money channel. That should be clear and audible. In a stress
situation like the first gig, the only thing though FOH for the first song with me would
have been the lead vocal. Other stuff can come as needed later. 3. It isn't a
recording. Like the band dropping the odd note you may make the odd slip. It has gone.
Live with it. Perfection is rarely possible. Feel matters more than polish. 3. Keep
monitors as low as you can get away with. This may mean asking the band to turn down a
little. It should be unusual at bar gig size venues that someone standing in front of
their own amp should need themselves in the monitors. Amp stands help with this - lift it
and aim it at their head. 4. Keep sounds in monitors as dry as possible - certainly
vocals in monitors should not have compressors on them. 5. Learn to coil cables. It
only takes a little while to get the hang, then takes no longer than any other method of
putting them away, but they come out so much easier. 5. Carry spare cables. I used to
just carry *lots* of 5M XLR leads. I had a few shorter coloured ones for round the drums
so I could put the mics in place then just pop green in the kick channel, blue for snare,
red for right OH and purple for left. While 5M may seem a little short to get across a
stage, just join two. you will also not have too much extra cable to tuck away.
Thank you very much for the tips.
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Steve Hill
member
Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13140
Loc: Oxfordshire
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#874718 - 13/11/10 07:58 PM
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+1 for colour-coding cables by length or indeed by type e.g. for specials.
If
you start with say an all-black wardrobe, put some colour coded markers on each end (small
cable ties for instance)
-------------------- Dynamite with a laser beam...
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grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2626
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: My first experience running live sound solo. It's a horror story
[Re: techjunkie]
#875775 - 18/11/10 03:10 PM
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Nice one! It's gigs like that which make you forget all the lousy ones.
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