Main Forums >> User Reviews
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new
      #886890 - 13/01/11 12:56 AM
After moaning like mad on here that I can't seem to audition the mics I want, I went to KMR this afternoon and they were super-helpful, loaning me 2 mics for the weekend without a thought. And that's a great way to test them, cos I can try them out in a mix, which is all that counts. What a great shop!

A really interesting match. At first the Gefell (in Cardioid mode) had me for it's smoothness, then the Brauner edged ahead, it just has a loveliness and clarity that is difficult to match. But once I started recording some vocals in a couple of mixes, suddenly the Brauner wouldn't settle down, seemed brittle in the upper mids and after a while it became clear that on my voice at least the Gefell is way superior. It has lots of mid range detail and does not have a harsh top end or inflated bottom. Dare I say it, it has an M7 capsule and it really seems to have that classic heritage tone (YMMV of course).

Only problem is it is slightly sibilant (which Is the problem I've been trying to solve.)

Any other suggestions welcome. I can't audition a Bock cos they are only in Liverpool. There are no TLM193s in the UK. Perhaps a TLM67....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3171
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S [Re: steve355]
      #886900 - 13/01/11 04:29 AM
Interesting stuff. I auditioned an M71s cardioid only version of the UMT 70S and really quite enjoyed it, and would be tempted to buy a UMT70S at some point in the future.

I would put the M71 closer to a TLM103 than a TLM193, which is really rather neutral and may well solve your sibilance issue. I also auditioned a TLM67 and would place it somewhere between the TLM193 and the TLM103, in frequency response, but somehow I didn't enjoy as much as either! Maybe a bit too much emphasis on the mids.

It's ridiculous that there are no TLM193s in the UK! A TLM170 would give you a very good idea of how the 193 would behave (in cardioid mode).

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4556
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #886901 - 13/01/11 04:51 AM
KMR are awesome guys. I've had amazing customer service there over the years. Now you have to suffer the agony of choice!

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
matt keen



Joined: 07/01/06
Posts: 1859
Loc: Northants, England
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #886934 - 13/01/11 10:06 AM
Quote steve355:

After moaning like mad on here that I can't seem to audition the mics I want, I went to KMR this afternoon and they were super-helpful, loaning me 2 mics for the weekend without a thought. And that's a great way to test them, cos I can try them out in a mix, which is all that counts. What a great shop!

A really interesting match. At first the Gefell (in Cardioid mode) had me for it's smoothness, then the Brauner edged ahead, it just has a loveliness and clarity that is difficult to match. But once I started recording some vocals in a couple of mixes, suddenly the Brauner wouldn't settle down, seemed brittle in the upper mids and after a while it became clear that on my voice at least the Gefell is way superior. It has lots of mid range detail and does not have a harsh top end or inflated bottom. Dare I say it, it has an M7 capsule and it really seems to have that classic heritage tone (YMMV of course).

Only problem is it is slightly sibilant (which Is the problem I've been trying to solve.)

Any other suggestions welcome. I can't audition a Bock cos they are only in Liverpool. There are no TLM193s in the UK. Perhaps a TLM67....




Not saying you re wrong - but I bought and use the UMT70 precisely cos of the lack of sibilance - what pre amps are you going through or could it be something else in the chain?

Interested to know either way.
Agree about KMR

--------------------
Matt
www.krcollective.org


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #886939 - 13/01/11 10:27 AM

You should hear me on a properly sibilant mic!!! Sorry, I should be clear, the mic is very smooth and not hyped, it is my voice that is sibilant.

The chain is straight into a fireface 800 via it's preamps. I have other pres but that seemed a decent way to test these two mics.

I expect only something like a TLM193 or a ribbon would cure it. And the answer will be a compromise, to some degree I'll just have to learn to sing differently.

I am pretty hooked on the Gefell though, a lovely mic. Will try omni mode with upright piano later.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5649
Loc: Buntingford, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #888441 - 19/01/11 10:27 AM
Quote steve355:


I'll just have to learn to sing differently.





This, Steve, can be an important point: often missed. The most critical part of any recording chain is the source!

Glad you are liking the UMT70S and as I have mentioned many times in the past, KMR are the place to go for proper customer service.

Nonetheless you should be completely satisfied that the UMT70S will work for you before buying it!

Reg


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #888448 - 19/01/11 11:06 AM
Quote RegressiveRock:

Quote steve355:


I'll just have to learn to sing differently.





This, Steve, can be an important point: often missed. The most critical part of any recording chain is the source!

Glad you are liking the UMT70S and as I have mentioned many times in the past, KMR are the place to go for proper customer service.

Nonetheless you should be completely satisfied that the UMT70S will work for you before buying it!

Reg




Reg

As I said I think that the Brauner vs the Gefell was an ideal comparison match - one of the best of the "hyped" mics vs a mic with a classic capsule. To my ears, the Brauner has a raised low end (which is easy to eq out) and a slightly crisper top end. But critically, it seems that just below the presence peak is a "dip" or slight lack of definition compared to the Gefell which means it somehow sits on top of the mix rather than in it. On other sources it will vary no doubt.

I don't think I am going to do better than the Gefell. It is possible a ribbon might deal with the sibilance/harshness issue slightly better but the really detailed mids of the Gefell mean that you are not relying so much on the top end for definition, which is exactly what I need.

And it has that classic sound, to my ears anyway. And it is extremely versatile.

The only weird thing was that the KMR guy said it is usually a broadcast microphone, not usually bought for singing vocals, and that it was a "boring" sound compared to the Brauner.

Well, I am pretty much sold, I'm going to KMR this afternoon to place an order. Wife will kill me!

Thanks for all your help Reg, in finding the right mic for me!!

Cheers

Steve


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5649
Loc: Buntingford, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #888458 - 19/01/11 11:42 AM
A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike. However, I'd not describe the UMT70S as 'boring', merely 'classic' and with your sibilance issues far less likely to exacerabte them.

Frankly, it's the passing on down the value chain of this ethic that 'hype is good' that leads to the kind of issues you were experiencing with your old M-Audio unit.

Good luck with your purchase.

Reg


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
steve355



Joined: 02/03/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Stevenage, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #888466 - 19/01/11 12:05 PM
Quote RegressiveRock:

A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike.





If I had auditioned them side to side in a shop I would have bought the Brauner. No question. I spent my first hours with these two being pretty certain that it was the one. It was only when I did some basic tracking and played with them in the mix that the strength of the Gefell became clear. An interesting learning experience.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5649
Loc: Buntingford, Herts
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #888476 - 19/01/11 12:34 PM
Quote steve355:

Quote RegressiveRock:

A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike.





If I had auditioned them side to side in a shop I would have bought the Brauner. No question. I spent my first hours with these two being pretty certain that it was the one. It was only when I did some basic tracking and played with them in the mix that the strength of the Gefell became clear. An interesting learning experience.




Again: an often missed point!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
narcoman
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8519
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #888833 - 21/01/11 12:09 AM
Absolutely. But you've highlighted the problem of comparing two mic's that are very different! Cuz I bet you want both really !!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Reiknir



Joined: 02/02/08
Posts: 222
Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S new [Re: steve355]
      #889142 - 22/01/11 02:25 PM
Quote steve355:

, to some degree I'll just have to learn to sing differently.




Not as difficult as you might think, sibilance is usually caused by your tongue lifting too much which causes the energy to fall on you front teeth and back, creating a standing wave

just lowering your tongue position a little might do wonders ..... of course if you have front teeth like a bunny nothing might be of help


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
0 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor 
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating: *****
Thread views: 9011

November 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for November 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media