http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roland-TB-303-Bass-Line-W-case-FIX-PARTS-REPAIR-/130 484515639

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

£2?

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Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!

He says: "It will light up. Has led sequence. No sound. no parts are missing. "

So not all bad news. That suggests the MCU is ok, which is lucky as you just can't get those any more. Otherwise the thing would be nigh on scrap.
The Roland VCA chips are about impossible to get now too, which might be a problem if that is bust. But everything else in there is still possible to find.
If thats an honest description then I think it's quite fixable.
As for what it would go for.. I don't have a bloody clue!? If it were me, I wouldn't part with more than £150-£200 myself. But we know there are nutters out there that will likely pay at least double that, so it's anyones guess!

Paul

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Paul

... and when I was working for Argents during the 80s when they first came out, we couldn't shift them. Everyone thought they were shite...

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote tomafd:

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... and when I was working for Argents during the 80s when they first came out, we couldn't shift them. Everyone thought they were shite...

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That's cause they are.

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I'm All Ears.

Quote ken long:

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Quote tomafd:

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... and when I was working for Argents during the 80s when they first came out, we couldn't shift them. Everyone thought they were shite...

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That's cause they are.

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One trick pony I'll grant you but it's a helluva trick!

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote jellyjim:

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Quote ken long:

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Quote tomafd:

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... and when I was working for Argents during the 80s when they first came out, we couldn't shift them. Everyone thought they were shite...

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That's cause they are.

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One trick pony I'll grant you but it's a helluva trick!

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...that any half-decent synth can equal, if not better.

Paid 15 quid for mine, used it for a while, then gave it away. I always say I got a fair price for it.

The 303 is the darling of the over-hyped hardware market; if you can talk it up you can protect and increase its value.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I'd like one to accompany my 606.

I think I'd rather get an X0X box though for actual use as it has MIDI and a larger control surface, but I still can't justify the price. Especially when you can get a certain other Roland for around the same price.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote The Elf:

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...that any half-decent synth can equal, if not better.

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Really?
So you could match or better the 303 sound with a Yamaha Bland-o-tron or whatever it is they are churning out this month?
Not just a tad bitter that you gave yours away when you could have got over a grand for it then?

Sure, they go for more money than I would pay for one. But still, they do fetch that money for a reason beyond hype alone. Tons of classic tracks have used them. No other synths could quite nail that sound, bar some limited production/DIY clones..

Paul

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Paul

Acid House Stradivarius

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I'm All Ears.

Quote ~Paul:

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Quote The Elf:

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...that any half-decent synth can equal, if not better.

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Really?

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Really.

Quote ~Paul:

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So you could match or better the 303 sound with a Yamaha Bland-o-tron or whatever it is they are churning out this month?

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Yep. Show me a synth with a single sawtooth/square waveform and a filter and I’ll give you a TB303 impression that will fool 80% of the people 80% of the time. Hand me an SH-09, an MC-202, an SH-101, a Pro-1, a JP-8080 (add a lot of other examples to taste)… and I’ll ‘better’ it.

The TB-303 was nothing special, but has been hyped up to be so by people who have a vested interest in its market value.

Quote ~Paul:

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Not just a tad bitter that you gave yours away when you could have got over a grand for it then?

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Nah. I was hired to program the damned thing as a substitute for a real bassist. Good riddance! I think 'free' was a fair price to save my blood pressure and fingers!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

^ Hmm..
I've got heaps of other synths I can get something pretty similar with. Especially if distortion is used. And yes, maybe it's 80% of the way there. But for many folk, 80% isn't even nearly good enough. I mean Behringer gear is good enough for most people right? But I wouldn't bloody touch it.

The problem with using other synths to make the sound, is that it's very difficult to match how the slide and accent on the 303 behaves. The slide particularly is unusual to the 303. As is the filter come to think of it.
Plus that x0x haphazard programming has it's appeals for many people that you just can't get from cubase or Logic etc etc..

Again though. Im not into them so much that i'd pay over a grand for one! I could build 3 x0xb0xes for that (and still have some change left over) If built properly, they got the sound totally nailed. But then they have exactly the same innards.. Plus x0xb0xes don't have knackered pots & buttons, and don't come pre stuffed with 25 years and 7 previous owners worth of fag ash and pubes. Brilliant!

Paul

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Paul

And the price for moronic stupidity?..



£784.62

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

More than I thought it would go for.
Still, thats likely a cheap fix for someone. And if they sell it on again, they'll make quite some profit.
So perhaps not that stupid after all..

Paul

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Paul

Quote ~Paul:

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More than I thought it would go for.
Still, thats likely a cheap fix for someone. And if they sell it on again, they'll make quite some profit.
So perhaps not that stupid after all..

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It's broken.

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I'm All Ears.

I got 2 303's an 808 and a 909 for £4...... on iphone

Got to love Rebirth, lol.

Dan

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Two interesting facts about me: 1)My Knob is the length of two Argos pens 2)I'm banned from Argos

Quote Dan Bo:

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I got 2 303's an 808 and a 909 for £4...... on iphone

Got to love Rebirth, lol.

Dan

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To be fair Rebirth doesn't sound the same. At all.

I mean it sounds 'good enough' for the average rubbish composition that nobody is going to listen to anyway.

But if you actually want to release a track with an acid line on, you need it to sound amazing. Its all been done before in proper studios with real 303s.

Ok jonny calm down mate, just a bit of fun.

Consider wrists slapped.

Dan

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Two interesting facts about me: 1)My Knob is the length of two Argos pens 2)I'm banned from Argos

Hmm. I had two of these in the mid-1980s, but rarely used the internal synth at all, one of them drove a Korg MS50 (via a home-made trigger inverter) and the other a Roland SH101.

I sold them both in 1987 when I started using MIDI sequencing on computer (C-Lab Supertrack on a Commodore 64).

Of course a year or two later they became the darlings of the acid set; but I needed the money to pay for the C64 and I don't have a crystal ball. Having said that, even if I was still active musically and had a fortune to draw on I'd never bother getting another one.

Before I got the second one I had a Firstman SQ01, which was a similar concept (synth and sequencer in one package), but a lot bulkier. However the sound on that was much better (ie usable) and I often used to mix it in with the MS50, tuned an octave below.

Ah, happy days. I was prompted to think abouth this the other day as an old mate and musical collaborator has just put a video of us playing live in 1984 on YouTube . . .

Land of Yrx 1984

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Gear List: reverse only.

Edited by Dave Gate (16/02/11 11:24 AM)

Quote ken long:

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Quote ~Paul:

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More than I thought it would go for.
Still, thats likely a cheap fix for someone. And if they sell it on again, they'll make quite some profit.
So perhaps not that stupid after all..

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It's broken.

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Read post, then reply.

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Paul

Quote Dan Bo:

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Ok jonny calm down mate, just a bit of fun.

Consider wrists slapped.

Dan

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I shouldn't post so early in the morning

I'm trying to recreate a decent 303 sound at the moment. None of the 303 emulation software really works at all, which is quite frustrating and makes me angry..

Rebirth is supposed to be quite good for that...





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I'm All Ears.

Quote ken long:

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Rebirth is supposed to be quite good for that...

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This is a pretty badly laid out site but it does prove software 303s can't touch the real thing.

http://www.acidvoice.com/tb_303_vst_plugin_software.htm

Quote The Elf:

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Quote ~Paul:

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Quote The Elf:

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...that any half-decent synth can equal, if not better.

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Really?

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Really.

Quote ~Paul:

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So you could match or better the 303 sound with a Yamaha Bland-o-tron or whatever it is they are churning out this month?

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Yep. Show me a synth with a single sawtooth/square waveform and a filter and I’ll give you a TB303 impression that will fool 80% of the people 80% of the time. Hand me an SH-09, an MC-202, an SH-101, a Pro-1, a JP-8080 (add a lot of other examples to taste)… and I’ll ‘better’ it.

The TB-303 was nothing special, but has been hyped up to be so by people who have a vested interest in its market value.

Quote ~Paul:

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Not just a tad bitter that you gave yours away when you could have got over a grand for it then?

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Nah. I was hired to program the damned thing as a substitute for a real bassist. Good riddance! I think 'free' was a fair price to save my blood pressure and fingers!

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Yawn!!

The 303's square wave is not a true square, it's a sawtooth wave flipped upside down every other cycle, that's why it sounds unique to the 303 only.

And the 303's time-mode function is what makes the sequencer on it unique as well, no other sequencer can behave like the 303's does.

Plus you can enter accent and slide while inputting pitch data, no need to go over everything 3 times to just enter a sequence.

And there is a little trick that lets you copy sequences on the 303 so you don't have to write them over again.

And oh! that slide is constant no matter what, not your average portamento.

Now ELF, can you show me a synth that uses a saw wave to create a square wave by flipping it ?

I went through a few 303 plugin demos before finding one I agreed with. I didn't rate Muon Tau at all, I found my weak attempts with ES-1 and ES-2 were just as good. D16 Phoscyon was a bit better, but still not what I was after. Only AudioRealism BassLine had the liquid rubberyness that I was after, it sounded loads better. Which is a shame, as it costs loads more. I had to get it though.

I wrote a program to convert the pattern I programmed into midi data to be sure they all had the same note data, I got the note-on lengths from the web but I had to guess the normal/accent velocity. I'm not normally as fussy when it comes to soft synths, I doubt I could tell a Minimoog from a Minimonsta, but I grew up listening to acid house when I was a kid so I suppose my ears are more attuned to the sound.

Five 303-ish sounds. One is the real deal, recorded a few years ago. Three of the others are presets quickly dialled up on other synths, which I've made no attempt at all to tweak. One represents 2 minutes of tweakery on one of my favourite synths. Which is the real one?...

TB-303 01
TB-303 02
TB-303 03
TB-303 04
TB-303 05

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I would say 1 but as I don't own a 303, what do I know?!

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"Who were Wings? Only the band the Beatles could have been.."

2 and 4 sound interesting..can't really tell though
Imo where you can really tell a real 303 apart from a emulation is at high resonance whit the filter close to being fully open, plenty of filter env mod and a long is sustain while the sequencer is playing a part making use of slide and accent...saying that..in a mix I doubt most people could tell including my self.

I love it for the stuff people did with it when it was fresh or even the 90's early 00's but I'm so fed up of ACID or anything to do with boring bleepy tracks that do noting. If I won the lottery I would buy one and make a video of me burning it on youtube...something new would be nice or even a 303 pattern that you can actually remember and is catchy.
Every one and his dog now makes some stupid bleep song and calls it acid..ohh so cool, even guys with expensive modulars...what do they do? Simple lame 303 pattern..my granny could make acid
ohh dear what a rant hahah that is what you get when you are subjected to hours of intensive listening of people playing with a x0x box and a 707 for 4 hours...then making you watch clips on youtube of other people doing the same thing

Edited by vinyl_junkie (19/02/11 04:20 PM)

Well I'm relieved that I can tell then apart at least, but I can't place the 303. The slide on the last couple of notes just doesn't seem how would expect it to sound on any of them

I'm the opposite of Vinyl Junkie, I love spending hours watching people playing with their X0Xes on YouTube, overdone or not.

I'm kinda with VJ on this one..
I know the 303 has a unique sound, but why do people pay such ridiculous sums for it?.. the sound has been done.. move on and spend your money on creating the new sound.. for the price 303s go for now, you can get a reasonable starter modular system which is WAY more powerful and capable of new and interesting sounds..
..But no.. we must have "that" sound", mustn't we?

The whole original ethos of the "acid sound" was using cheap and cheerful bits of kit as mainstream instruments were too expensive.. and so the "acid scene" has become nothing more than a hypocritical parody of itself as it has failed to grow and develop.
It's time for a new generation of electronic punks to make something special with discarded technology..

My money is on the the circuit benders..



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Plus, lets say 88 as a start. Thats 23 years ago. Nearly twice the creative time of the Beatles. Thats like making a film of yourself twanging a srat like the Ventures , thinking that's still cool- in the 1980's.

Odd though it seams House and Techno is nearly older than the period between Beatle mania and its first proto appearence.

Love it, but its a dead art.

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Amazing! Given how incredibly 'unique' the 303 is I thought there's be a raft of folks reliably telling me exactly which one the real 303 is.

Maybe it's not so uniquely recognisable after all then?...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Amazing! Given how incredibly 'unique' the 303 is I thought there's be a raft of folks reliably telling me exactly which one the real 303 is.

Maybe it's not so uniquely recognisable after all then?...

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On my laptop speakers they all sound absolutely terrible and unusable. The character of the 303 comes through with the changes in the filter, the slides / accent etc. I know its perfectly possible to make the best of synths sound terrible. It doesn't mean they are necessarily bad synths, it just reflects the operating them.

Yeah, I've no idea how we made that record chart with such unusable sounds...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I vote #2!

But then I had 303 for all of a week, on loan, a long time ago. Didn't like the interface, but thought it sounded just fine.

Go #2!

Certainly didn't like it enough to pay even the lowly prices of the time. It would only have been investment material.

Yes Elf, It's amazing! Amazing that is, that people like yourself feel inclined to repeatedly stick their oar into a thread that by their own admission, they have no interest in.

Your 5 demo's: Well done for showing 5 reasons why you don't get the 303. No filter action? Thats one of the key things that makes the 303 stand out above many other synths. Same goes for resonance, slide and accent. All the files sound static and bland.
It's not that you made other synths sound like a 303. Far from it. You made a 303 sound much like some other synth. Im not surprised there hasn't been a stampede of forum goers shouting "It's THAT one!"
Given that it isn't difficult to make a 303 sound good, you surely deserve a special award for making one sound that bad.

Paul

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Paul

Ouch!

I didn't realise this was a thread for 'believers' only. I thought it was a discussion.

BTW, the example was based on a part produced by a 303 afficiando - and a successful one at that - not by me.

I'm gone...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I think Paul's being a bit harsh there, but I do agree with his general point that the loop wasn't the typical squelching acid that people normal go to the 303 for.

(Slightly skew here - is it true that the solo on Another brick in the Wall part 2 was a di'd Gibson ? Always thought i could hear a strat!)


(p.s. check out TRAX - RE-EDITED acid fans...)

Do you think that the other players in the strings say to Strad owners "nobody will hear that in the ensemble anyhow ?"

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Quote Voodoo Raymond:

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I think Paul's being a bit harsh there, but I do agree with his general point that the loop wasn't the typical squelching acid that people normal go to the 303 for.

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Its an extremely basic, bland sound which is easily created by any synth, 303 or whatever. Check out the website link earlier in the thread - its extremely easy to distinguish between the real 303 and vst 303 samples.