Hi all - I've been so happy with my Omni i/O breakout box for a Delta 66 card since about 2001. I can see the writing on the wall though - even if that keeps on ticking for a while, one of these days I'll need to replace it for one reason or another.

What I don't really know about though is ... what happened to plain old "sound cards"? I haven't seen an advertisement for them in ages, it seems like it's virtually all "interfaces" nowadays. Checking the M-Audio site (for example), all the sound cards listed have been there for 5-10 years (Delta 44, 66, 1010, and Audiophile), leading me to believe that for some reason I don't understand the emphasis on development has moved away from plain old "sound cards" to "Firewire Interfaces" or "USB Interfaces". Are stand-alone "sound cards" sold much any more, or are they mainly sort of built into "interfaces"?

I try to figure out by the specs on the interface what kind of sound card is inside, but it seems like the emphasis is more on connectivity than the A/D interface interface.

Sorry this is kind of ignorant-sounding, but I'm afraid time has passed me by ... just trying to catch up a bit - are stand-alone "sound cards" a thing of the past? Do these "interfaces" have "built in" soundcards? Why isn't there much ink comparing the quality of the sound in these interfaces, like there used to be comparing the quality of the sound coming out of the sound cards way back when?

Thanks for even a few words of "re-orientation"!

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

Hi alexis!

There are still various ‘plain old soundcards’ out there, and some capable of superb quality as good as any audio interface can get. However, I suspect the move to Firewire/USB is largely because:

a) You don’t have to open up your PC to install them.

b) You can use them with a laptop as well as desktop computer, making them more versatile.

Indeed, with most audio interfaces today offering good quality sound, the connectivity does tend to become the most important factor for many musicians.

As for sound quality, there really isn’t anything between them - the low-jitter digital clocking and analogue circuitry can now produce similarly good results whether the interface is PCI/PCIe/USB 1.1/USB 2.0/Firewire 400/Firewire 800...

However, I still maintain that a well-designed PCI/PCIe soundcard can provide lower latency and potentially more simultaneous audio tracks than either Firewire 400 or USB 2.0, and avoid any of the intermittent connection problems that seem to plague a few Firewire interface in particular


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

That's great, thanks so much, Martin. As I don't have plans to do location/laptop recording, I guess I'll stick to the PCI card approach, as long as the next music computer I buy has a slot for it. The hard part, I think, may be actually finding advertising and reviews for these!

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

The cards tend to be used on high-end systems for getting huge channel counts in and out of a machine - eg RME, SSL and many more all use PCIe cards to link to their MADI boxes. Martin's right about the theoretical potential of cards, but they can be every bit as problematic as USB/FW devices if there are hardware clashes or poorly designed drivers. Really, if you buy a current market leader (eg Focusrite, RME, M-Audio) it's *likely* (never guarantee!) to work pretty well with most systems.

The Delta cards (particularly the ubiquitous Audiophile) are still very much current. They haven't changed because they got them right!

A "sound card" IS an "audio interface". Don't worry over the label.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

---

The Delta cards (particularly the ubiquitous Audiophile) are still very much current. They haven't changed because they got them right!

A "sound card" IS an "audio interface". Don't worry over the label.

---

Thanks Mixedup and Exalted Wombat. "Don't worry about the label" ... that really does clarify it for me.

I guess really all I need to do is see the specs of the "interface", whether it's a PCI card or in a "box" that connects externally to the computer. What Hz do I want to record in ... MIDI cable or USB ... how much connectivity ... etc. etc. I'm much more confident about researching now!

Thanks again -

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

That’s exactly the right approach alexis!

Have a read of my SOS feature entitled ‘Choosing An Audio Interface: The SOS Buying Guide’, since it may help you narrow down your choices:

www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/audiointerfaces.htm


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

The 'label' probably stems from the fact that there used to be soundcards which were PCI (or even older legacy formats... ISA etc) cards which both acted as an audio interface and an onboard synth, or MIDI sound module. Eg the cheaper old Yamaha XG cards which had onboard XG synths, the Korg cards with Triton-like sounds and so on). But as EW says, there's really no need to worry about any of that now.

The Delta cards/interfaces will still do fine. In that sense they are current (a bit like RME Hammerfall cards of the same time, which were much better and are still decent quality today). Though if I were buying now, I'd definitely be looking at other options. I certainly wouldn't care whether it was a PCIe, USB or FW based system, as long as it offered the feature set and sound quality I wanted, worked with my machine, and was within budget.

In fact, I'd *probably* opt for FW or USB on the grounds that whatever card format is supported by future desktop motherboards, it's likely that you'll have legacy support for FW or USB, or at least the ability to add a FW or USB card to future formats. ie. if I wanted to 'future proof' I wouldn't personally be going the PCI/PCIe route right now unless I really needed the benefits it theoretically offers. (which I think 99.9999 percent of people buying interfaces don't!).

Anyway, have a read of Martin's article...

Thanks again, Martin and Mixedup. Great article, by the way, Martin (and love the links)!

I'm thinking (based on this month's SOS PC Notes article) that if I don't have to buy anything too soon, I may be able to choose from some upcoming Thunderbolt"-compatible devices - and not be "legacy'd" the moment I buy.

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

I suspect you’ll be waiting for some time before Thunderbolt audio interfaces become available, and when they do, you might find they are relatively high end.


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

Quote Martin Walker:

---

I suspect you’ll be waiting for some time before Thunderbolt audio interfaces become available, and when they do, you might find they are relatively high end.

---

+1. Certainly the first ones. And as I said, the USB and FW performance is perfectly good for what you want to do. You don't *need* Thunderbolt, and you'll pay through the nose for it when it first comes out.

Hi Alexis.
I too am saddened by the lack of "progress" in PCIe cards (why BTW is there still a shedload of PCI/PCIe cards on the market that SoS has not reviewed please?). Nearly a year ago I bought a new HP W7/64 pc and found it only had one PCI slot so in went my trusty 2496 which worked slendidly. My plan was then to replace the 2496 in the future with two PCIe versions of the AP192 to give me 4 in 4out analogue.

M-Audio are NOT making any PCIe cards! I am flabbergasted, this seems such a shortsighted step since,..
1)M-A usb/FW kit has a slightly dodgy rep'
2)I would not buy any now on principle!
3)Focusrite look very tempting (I really want an RME UC but can't really justify something that costs more than my car!).

There are very few PCIe cards on the market at M-A sort of prices. ESI are one but beware! I bought an ESI ESP 1010e expecting it to work with W7(from the specs) it didn't very well. I now see that the unit has been withdrawn from many dealers' lists.
Be nice if SoS could do a roundup of modest PCIe cards and their W7 tolerance..Only need do this about once a decade Soz!

I get a whiff that PCIe is on its way out? What next if so?

While I am here.
Martin, would the newly emerging usb 3.0 memory sticks be a viable "running" memory for audio tracks?

Dave.

Quote alexis:

---

Hi all - I've been so happy with my Omni i/O breakout box for a Delta 66 card since about 2001. I can see the writing on the wall though - even if that keeps on ticking for a while, one of these days I'll need to replace it for one reason or another.

---

I moved to a imac and had to let my omni go, I would have it back like a shot if could, way preferred it to this little Focusrite pro14.

If you can hang on to it I would. I ran mine on a 64bit W7 system with no issues at all as long as there is a PCI slot you are good to go. if you are PC based then upgrade around that classic

--------------------
Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Ah!,
Now. You do see advertized PCI to PCIe converter boards.

I tried asking one of the vendors of same if they had tried them with soundcards.
"Hiss off, we just sell 'em" was the drift of the response. M-Audio were a little more polite but just as chocolate a teapot.

Would be good if someone could test these things for us???

Dave. (and yes, my 2496 works faultlessly on W7 64bits)

Some boffin should put together a PCI caddy with usb/FW interface
nowthersanidea!!

--------------------
Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,