Has anyone experience of the SENNHEISER MK4 (which is a fairly new mic)?

It is a cardoid LDC and I understand a reasonable price - I don't know if one can get matched pairs - or if it would be suitable as a stringed instrument and also piano recording mic. It has low noise and good sensitivity as I understand it.

Has anyone used this mic yet? It apparently became available in January 2011.

Should have one here on appro by Tuesday, so I'll post up some thoughts.

It was reviewed in the latest Australian 'Audiotechnology' magazine very positively, described as smoother and airier than a U47FET on voices but not as magical sounding as a C12 - whatever all that means!

In comparison to Rode NT-1s, NT-2s and Octava M-319s they said they all shared similarities but none matched the MK4s ability to sound good on all sources.

So it would appear to be something of an all rounder, though restricted to cardioid with no pad or filter.

Max SPL is a worthy 140dB and it's quiet enough at 10dB A-weighted.

The only place I've found a polar patern and frequency response is in the mic's manual which you can find here. The polar pattern looks well behaved and the frequency response shows a smooth lift from 3kHz up to around +3.5dB at 10kHz.

They're made in Germany and appear to be Sennheiser's answer to the plethora of budget studio mics on the market. If the mic reflects true Sennheiser pedigree it would be worth considering.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Thanks Bob, and I look forward to your comments. If I got this mic I would be using it for strings and piano mostly i.e. chamber music - string quartets, piano quartets, quintets etc.

I wonder if it would be an advantage to have a matched pair, if they did such a thing? I would be using mainly as a spaced pair, at close to itermediate distances (1 metre to 4 metres).

The MK4 arrived today and I threw it up against a few mics in the studio.

You can listen to the samples here: This link should give you an index of files

Basically I've comped some tests of various voices on four mics:

AKG C414 TLII
Neumann TLM103
Neumann TLM193
Sennheiser MK4

All recorded 180cm from the capsule using DAV pre-amps and Focusrite ISA428 converters.

Then I've comped a couple of takes of acoustic guitar on two mics:

Microtech Gefell M300
Sennheiser MK4

Recorded concurrently around 180cm off the 12th fret on-axis pointed halfway between the 12th fret and the soundhole.

Files are 44.1Hz/16bit AIFF

I've been unable to do a blind test, so I'll reserve my comments. But just to have a bit of fun, I've labeled the files VocalMic1 etc, so I'd be interested in hearing other people's blind test comments first! Note guitar mic labeling does not relate to vocal mic labeling! And if you do comment please specify what you've auditioned them on - laptop speakers don't count!

Promise not to be too much of a tease

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

That's 180mm not 180cm from capsule!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Hi Bob, and thanks!!

Putting that into proper terms that's about just over 7 inches from the mic! That's quite close in terms of my use of mics, where I'm usually two - six feet away (i.e. 2/3 of a metre to 2 metres ...)

I put the files into Reaper and compared them on seperate tracks, both through a pair of Fostex speakers and a good pair of Beyerdynamic headphones (DT 250). I've yet to put the files through my very good hi-fi speakers (Quads). I might also try them with Pro-Tools.

I find these tests hard because I need to hear the mics on piano and stringed instruments to really judge. (For me, that is). I'm hopeless with guitars. But having said that, I marginally preffered the guitar01 example.

The other vocal samples were hard too. I like the AKG (as I usually do) the best, but the Sennheiser MK4 was pretty close, and just about as good as the Neumann mics, in my opinion. I think there is quite a difference in price as the AKG mic is well over £750 - more than twice the MK4, and the TLM 103 is about £859. I can't find TLM 193 prices.

I was wondering how you recorded. Was it live or a recording in some cases of a recording of a recording? I imagine and it felt like the voice recordings were live maybe except for the female voice.

Once you get into the price bracket of around £250 + it gets harder to find obvious differences with mics. Well, I find that anyway.

Thanks for the prompt and very detailed tests - not something some of us can easily undertake.

Edited by Ariosto (26/04/11 10:26 AM)

Ha! Ha! I've just released my suggested blind test was a complete waste of time given I announced the models of the microphones! Deeerrrr........

Anyway, to answer your questions. All the samples were recorded close miked in the studio - so very different to your required scenario Ariosto, and not really what you're looking for.

The first guitar sample is the M300.

For the application you mention, spaced pair (in a hopefully good acoustic) for piano and violin, I'd be looking at SDC omnis, which could be either Neumann KM183s or Rode NT55s. For coincident or near coincident pairs, I would use the TLM193 or M300s, but the Rode NT5 is not a bad budget compromise.

What do you use currently?

As to how the MK4s would behave in your proposed application, I'm not really sure (and don't have a pair). Generally, I wouldn't be looking to use a large diaphragm mic in that scenario (the 193s are mid-sized), but having said that, I was rather surprised at how well the MK4 sounded in comparison to the mics double or more its price and it seems to have a silky, rather than hard top end.

Be interesting to hear what other people have to say.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Hi Bob

Don't laugh, but I'm using Audio Technica 10a's - quite old omni mics. One has got slightly noisy - but generally they do reasonably well. I also use with a mixer for extra gain my two AKG D202 dynamic mics (cardiod), which are quite good. (40 years old ...)

In a studio situation I've used Neumann KM184's and U87 - but I don't own such mics.

I've considered the Rodes - but maybe its all back to square one.

Yes, I wondered about the blind tests!! I'm carrying out deaf tests at the moment ...

I've just spoken on the phone to a fairly high end dealer who really though I needed much more expensive mics (which I can't justify) and better mic pramps ... because piano and violin are so hard to record. But as an ex-professional string player I think I can get a pretty good sound even with the mics I have.

It's hard because a friend who is a professional sound engineer and producer rubbishes most mics, especially the Neumanns, but I've found them quite good in the studio when I've hired them ...

Oh well ...

I'd have thought the Rode NT55s would be worth considering. The omni capsules are very good and the cardioids very workable, which would give you spaced pair plus coincident and near coincident options from one pair of reasonably priced mics.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Yes, I am seriously considering the Rode NT55's. But will wait a bit longer to be sure I will have a need for them.

No one else seems interested in listening and commenting on your tests, Bob.

Oh well, apathy I suppose!

Quote Ariosto:

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No one else seems interested in listening and commenting on your tests, Bob

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Yes, all those vocal acrobatics for nothing

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Don't bury the thread yet. I'm listening to the files at the moment.

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Rough-demos here, better in the making http://www.myspace.com/thesatellitedogs

Alright. I only listened to the AKG 414 and Mk 4 multiple times as I have a 414B-ULS, and I don't plan on buying any of the Neumanns, although the TLM193 was the one I liked most of the four. The Sennheiser has a surprisingly firce output level. I liked the Gefell much better on acoustic, but on voicover (and your voice of course) it was better than okay, and though I liked the highs and low end of the 414 somewhat better, it wasn't unpleasant as I feared it might be.
Thank you very much for the comparison!

SD

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Rough-demos here, better in the making http://www.myspace.com/thesatellitedogs

When testing/ comparing mikes, both near and far field should be explored imho
Most mikes are OK close up
At 2 feet and beyond it is a crucial test.
Fig 8s excel at this distance some good cards too.

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I am the Walrus.

Quote ROLO46:

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When testing/ comparing mikes, both near and far field should be explored imho
Most mikes are OK close up
At 2 feet and beyond it is a crucial test.
Fig 8s excel at this distance some good cards too.

---

That is a VERY interesting observation!!

Since I never work closer than two feet and often more likely 6 to 10 feet, I would be interested to know which mics would be suitable for chamber groups and solo instruments (strings and/or piano) in a classical music environment.

So far the Rode NT55's and the Neumann KM183 seem the most suitable, even if the Neumann's are rather expensive.

Quote ROLO46:

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When testing/ comparing mikes, both near and far field should be explored imho
Most mikes are OK close up
At 2 feet and beyond it is a crucial test.
Fig 8s excel at this distance some good cards too.

---

To test in the mid to far field I would have preferred a more open acoustic. The purpose of the posted tests was to compare the MK4 with reference mics (that I happen to own) in the near field as this will probably be the most commonly used application for this microphone.

I would probably be looking at nice omnis, SDCs or TLM193s (TLM170s if I had them) for mid/far field applications and have yet to try using nice figure of eights!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Ariosto:

---

Quote ROLO46:

---

When testing/ comparing mikes, both near and far field should be explored imho
Most mikes are OK close up
At 2 feet and beyond it is a crucial test.
Fig 8s excel at this distance some good cards too.

---

That is a VERY interesting observation!!

Since I never work closer than two feet and often more likely 6 to 10 feet, I would be interested to know which mics would be suitable for chamber groups and solo instruments (strings and/or piano) in a classical music environment.

---

Senny MKH omnis ,cards and fig 8's all excellent and v quiet.
The hypers are good too, but the basic patterns best, unless a specific requirement is desired.



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I am the Walrus.

Edited by Hugh Robjohns (16/06/11 08:56 AM)

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Yes, all those vocal acrobatics for nothing

---

Well, I'm not sure if it's worth giving my opinion, since I have zero confidence in my deteriorating hearing, but for the sake of providing further evidence that posting your comparisons here wasn't a waste of time here are my impressions:

1) Guitars: I was suspicious of my immediate preference for Mic2, and I suspected that I had been beguiled by its brightness. Mic1 certainly sounded smoother and more refined. However with repeated listening it still seemed that Mic2 was a touch more articulate and tuneful, especially in the bass.

2) Vocals: I least preferred the AKG, which sounded crudest, and I most preferred the Neumanns, which sounded more solid and real without needing the extra brightness of the Sennheiser. There seemed little in it, though.

I was going to write more but I'm very sleepy. If I remember I'll come back to this thread in a few months time, after having obtained a better DAC or audio interface, and see if I still have the same opinions. Thanks for making the files available.

Edited by Zebulon (15/06/11 11:57 PM)

Thanks for doing this Bob

Missed in when originally posted

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Matt
www.krcollective.org

I also missed this thread first time around and only noticed it when it was referenced recently. +1 thanks as well Bob.

Interestingly, I needed the female vocal to really compare and it was quite interesting. I've often heard mention of the 'brightness' of the TLM103 and I am getting that. The 193 is also a tad bright to me but less so than the 103. The 414 is a good, solid sound and the MK4 is ok, but lacks the definition that all the other three have - but then it's a fraction of the price and falls neatly into the 'excellent VFM' category.

I was concerned that the guitar test would be an 'apples and oranges' test - LDC vs SDC - and to me it was. The MK4 was a much 'bigger' sound as I expected it to be. Sounded fine, just too large but I suppose that that might be appropriate sometimes...

All in all, a great demo of the mics. Nice one Bob! Cheers.

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)