Quote The Bunk:

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Quote narcoman:

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Quote SecretSam:

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That's a bit hard on punk ! If you can bear it, have a careful listen to Anarchy in the UK: perhaps unbelievably, it has a perfectly-played Motown-like bassline under it. Yes, I was surprised as well. Timing and execution far more precise than anything you would find in Led Zepp or Deep Purple, for example (I put it into Ableton for a good poke around). I suspect the uncredited insertion of a very good session player !

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Matlock was a very very good player - simple style but bang on. As was Paul Cook.

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...gotta say the same about Steve Jones as well I'd say...

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I was under the impression that the guitar work was supplemented by a session player until I saw a video knocking round the 'net of Steve Jones looking like an '80s LA A&R man going through some of the songs to camera. At one point he muses that he shouldn't be giving the secrets away for free but should be doing a DVD for sale. I'd have bought it. I loved the Pistols despite my suspicion that all may not be as it seemed. Having seen that video I was mightily chuffed.

I lived through PT, JP and TB and all were different characters. I think it's safe to say that all Dr Whos since Baker have been tribute acts, good but nil points for originality.

Representing the 00's - By The Way (RHCP) Fab!

Apart from that I remember that was a time of fragmentation of the industry resulting in much more eclectic interests. Great folk music being judged as successful despite sales that would previously have failed to cause much of a splash.

Maybe not altogether a bad thing.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote Sam Inglis:

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Funnily enough I'm a big fan of the original Loretta Lynn stuff, but I wasn't that keen on the comeback. Maybe I should go back to it and give it another whirl, but I just didn't think the Jack White shambolic lo-fi thing really suited her. Can't imagine choosing the Strokes over Television either, but hey.

In my mind the Noughties was better than the Nineties, but I suppose it depends what you're into. I just had a quick look in my iTunes and found lots of favourites from that decade:

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With Loretta it's the songs - some of the finest things she's produced in her entire career. Love the sound too - but I like Whites aesthetic.

Strokes over Television? Well it's all opinion but I only remember Television as being a band liked by journo's......

Tom Baker.

90's - (well 88 - 98) for the explosion of acid house and all the ramifications / evolutions / and sub genres ..

Although this current decade so far has been absolutely outstanding - and I think will continue to be so. The diversity of outstanding music & genre pushing music is very very exciting.

Overall, with the exception of the eventual emergence of Dubstep - the 00's was the worst decade both culturally & musically since the 40's.
The 00's in many ways was the hangover of the Dance Music centric 90s - by the time the 00's began (or shortly before) - the various dance strains had seem to run their course - and no one knew where to turn next - that's when labels started cranking up the 4 pretty boys with guitars thing again. - and the kids just accepted it - and generated very little themselves.
A very poor period until Dubstep bubbled up - and began to break the rutt in dance/electronic music - of course now there is so much going on .. which can thank Dubstep for jolting us out of that rutt.

So anyway - for me personally the 90's
- but this current decade I recon is gonna top it all.
Teh kidz iz doin it right again.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

That looks like Jabba the Hut with a detachable pacman head.

Slightly changing the subject, more and more I have started thinking rock'n'roll, blues, jazz etc. was all a 20th century event which is slowly dying. I really hope I'm wrong, but I'm yet to be convinced by what the new acts offer. Sometimes it's just that the audience and the old "buzz" where music mattered has gone. Music has become the background, not the main thing in young peoples lifestyles.

Like I said I hope to be proved wrong.

However it also means that the old legends are getting to the age now where they are leaving this world for the next. I think the last 10 years saw more music legends die than any other decade simply because rock and roll started in the 50's.

So the noughties were also the sad decade we lost Bo Diddley, Buddy Miles, Mitch Mitchell, Issac Hayes, Ike Turner, Johnny Cash, Wilson Pickett - and that's just off the top of my head with a coffee and trying to wake up. I'm sure there are many more.

So come on kids, us older guys need some signs the rock and roll attitude isn't dead - down but not out? The best thing that came out in the noughties was "The School of Rock" film.

But isn't the rock and roll attitude in many ways a product of it's time - the 50's as the kids started to rebel against the earlier generations for the first time, the 70's punk thing, the rise of youth culture, along with the various political upheavals of the times...

We're all too attached to our iPhones and Playstations to rebel these days, aren't we...?

You post suggests the rock and roll "attitude" is the *correct* one, based on the times you've grown up through and what you feel is important. It's not the only one, and however you feel about the Pop Star SuperFabulous or HipHopBling cultures, there are at least as infuential in their own way to current generations as "our" music was to us.

It's only the older people who keep looking back. The kids are too busy trying to find their own lives and meaning to worry about what ours was like... until they grow up, and start complaining the music today isn't like it was in *their* day and they start losing touch with what the then current kids generation is connecting with...

oh James Brown as well. Rip.

From my experience with my students under 18 most of them like the old stuff more than me!

And what has the rock and roll attitude been replaced with? Maybe iphones for the middle class, knife and gun crime, gangs and apathy for many. I welcome the students protesting £9k a term, education should be for all. Now we need the music to give them a voice. Fight the man! That's what music of the last decades was about.

Rock and roll attitude is about the young challenging the old, so yes I think that's the way it should be. For the record I'm more of a soul man:)

Fight the Power

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So come on kids, us older guys need some signs the rock and roll attitude isn't dead - down but not out? The best thing that came out in the noughties was "The School of Rock" film.

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Er ... righhttt ....

That's the thing - sort of Baby Boomer generation and a couple down .. are generally not part of 'youth' (or perhaps underground) culture - and so make these assumptions.

There is so much against the grain music creation and sonic subversion going on right now.

Now is a VERY exciting time .. the last few years have been very very rich .. but

a) the 'old' as you put it - will never hear it
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b) if they did, they wouldn't get it - because it doesn't sound like Bo Diddly or Iggy Pop or whatevr ..

er wrong

that's the thing with 20 somethings - your already old.

"Young people" don't get your music at all! They are far more likely to go back to the 60's stuff than the last 20 years for inspiration, I know because I teach them. Each generation has it's own moves it's true, but the best stuff stands the test of time and reaches across the generations. I was too young for Jimi, Miles, Coltrane, James Brown, Led Zepp - they are not my generation - but I love them. If you think there is nothing from the last decade for me your wrong, I love some things from recent times. However it doesn't get the sales or audience of the old stuff and is all to often forgotten. So a 14 year old will discover Jimi Hendrix in 2011, just like I did in 1979. Unlikely they will get to hear a poor selling record from 2001, whether it deserves to be remembered or not.

If I'm wrong I'm glad, but your not convincing me. I may be too old to enjoy the latest rave/dance music in Ibiza - but how many of the "young" people who do attend such hip places give a damm about the music once they've left? Give me the benefit of the doubt and name some of these artists I'm too old to know about, let me check them out - most of us older guys are quite open minded. However if it sucks (imo) I will let you know:)

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the latest rave/dance music in Ibiza

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hehe.


http://www.alphapuprecords.net/podcast/episode19_gaslampkiller_jonhopkins. mp3
Njoi

Edited by blue manga (15/05/11 05:35 PM)

nah

Rocks not dead. Far from it - just stop looking at the charts for a reflection of what's happening. Biggest gigs in the world are rock or indie rock based. Biggest festivals are too. It's just not chart fodder (which, remember, is the FASTEST selling music, not the biggest).

AS many of you know - my company makes half its income from contracting licenses for sync - I can tell you, rock or blues or jazz - makes alot of money in those zones.

Also - go into any city and you'll find the "kids" are very much heavy rocking it up (although not so metal) - bands like Desert Storm - and they reference Kyuss or Monster Magnet and Clutch as well as Sabbath. RnB and Hip Hop are what white middle class 30 something execs THINK the kids want.

PS @fletcher - I absolutely do not disagree with u on great music always being revered.

All the things u list are great and revered.

A lot of that LA Beat Scene stuff - is all about destruction of genre .. There's a great diversity being thrown into the mix .. & all great things are revered sho nuf.

- But the main celebration is very much in the forging of the present and the future, whilst revering the greats of the past.

U'll see what I mean if u listen to the 1st half of that mp3 ..

There's lots of this kind if thing goin on .. if u know where 2 listen - but of course, even though - destruction of genre is part of the goal .. in the process the musical culture becomes genre-erized .. The point is there is much progress & change - and that is what rock and roll is about ..

Edited by blue manga (15/05/11 07:04 PM)

I hear you - I'm all for the new - time will sort out the good from the bad as always. What I worry more about is that it isn't heard, at least not by enough people. The industry doesn't invest in new talent any more, and gives it no time to develop. It's not about what my generation thinks, we might hate it - sometimes that's the point, but it has to get heard by all to matter.

On another point, where's the protest music? Someone said to me recently nobody's angry enough to care these days. What?! Think what we've had in the last 10 years - climate change, terrorism, wars over oil disguised as war on terrorism, banks wreaking the economy whilst we repair the damage and they keep getting bonuses, no work for many, £9k per annum to go to university...... I could go on. So what are we doing with the music? Where's the new Bob Dylan? What are the rappers saying - look at my gold chain/car/girl - I remember when hip hop was VERY political. Sorry to whoever didn't like punk (not for me either) but I would love to see a new punk type kick up the arse for the music industry.

Not seeing it happen yet but I hope it does. I still think music matters to young people but they need to reclaim it for themselves. That means they need to learn to PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS. If you want to play music that's the bottom line. Anything else is just fantasy. It's not real. If you can play, you can play live and take the record companies out of the loop. Once something happens they come running. For that though it's got to be good and it has to relate to the audiences lives and speak for and to them. Right now there's a lot of music "talking load and saying nuthin'" - to quote James Brown.

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I hear you - I'm all for the new - time will sort out the good from the bad as always. What I worry more about is that it isn't heard, at least not by enough people. The industry doesn't invest in new talent any more, and gives it no time to develop. It's not about what my generation thinks, we might hate it - sometimes that's the point, but it has to get heard by all to matter.

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It does invest in new talent - just not as much as it used to. Every band I've developed and moved onto a label has been funded, prior to that deal, by various label elements. From Little Fish to Warpaint - lots of dev work going on - just not in the charts. But all music isn't chart music (in fact I'd argue that very little of it is).

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On another point, where's the protest music? Someone said to me recently nobody's angry enough to care these days.

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Well

1. There are plenty of acts out there doing just that
2. Many acts - as always - aren't intellectual or intelligent enough to sing about such things
3. Actually check out what some pop songs are about - listen to Eminem for example. A pop musician who absolutely DOES comment on modern social and political situations.
It's a combo of all three - but again, you don't generally find it in the charts because the charts no longer reflect what's "going on".

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What?! Think what we've had in the last 10 years - climate change, terrorism, wars over oil disguised as war on terrorism, banks wreaking the economy whilst we repair the damage and they keep getting bonuses, no work for many, £9k per annum to go to university...... I could go on.

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I had a moderate hit record in 2003 (top 40 but sadly not top 30) on two of those subjects. You wouldn't know it though Ive worked with acts since then who are very much in touch with their political side. The other side of that problem is "the youth" is pretty apathetic when it comes to politics - but that's been by design. Bit of a catch 22 no?

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So what are we doing with the music? Where's the new Bob Dylan? What are the rappers saying - look at my gold chain/car/girl - I remember when hip hop was VERY political.

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Some of it still is. But again, you won't find it, generally, in the charts.

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Sorry to whoever didn't like punk (not for me either) but I would love to see a new punk type kick up the arse for the music industry.

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Punk is pretty much anything anti-establishment. The new punk was, unfortunately, piracy. The "kids" doing it for themselves. Musically? - I'd argue there is a new punk every few years - Drum n Bass back in the late 90s, maybe Grime or similar a couple of years ago.

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Not seeing it happen yet but I hope it does. I still think music matters to young people but they need to reclaim it for themselves. That means they need to learn to PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS. If you want to play music that's the bottom line.

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That's a bit subjective though isnt it? Ones mans cool playing is another mans progressive over the top tripe. It also goes against the grain of your previous "punk" statement. Playing is important, though, from my personal aesthetic, but it's no guarantee of musical "necessity". Look at Adele's band when she performs live. She's an awesome singer - but man, they're so [ ****** ] session it's a disgrace. No soul.

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Anything else is just fantasy. It's not real. If you can play, you can play live and take the record companies out of the loop.

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Got to massively disagree with that one. That would have been a light folly five years ago - but to think that a band can do ANYTHING without a label (admittedly you need a team that thinks out of the box but a label none the less) is thinking small, even a little naive (sorry - not trying to insult, but I work in the forward thinking sector of the biz, and we all looked at "doing it on our own" 8 or so years ago - reality checks hit hard). You just need a better label - not a backward thinking major.

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Once something happens they come running. For that though it's got to be good and it has to relate to the audiences lives and speak for and to them. Right now there's a lot of music "talking load and saying nuthin'" - to quote James Brown.

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Possibly true. the thing is - there is no unified audience any more. You'll find that if you stop trying to attract the masses you do much better. Of course, every now and then you get something that crosses over and it becomes a broadband hit - but that sort of music is usually saying "nuthin'".... Again though - look outside of the charts (and as I keep saying - the charts are the FASTEST selling tunes, not the biggest or most relevant). Go back to last year - Crooked Vultures didn't really have an huge hits did they? Strangely they sold more albums and made more money than Katy Perry. Keep out of the charts and look around.... there are a lot more people into music than 17 year old girls..... mind you , what did the Beatles ever say apart from trite bollox....

Drum 'n bass?.....that was less a movement by kids and more a quest by record companies to find summat new!..too many of those IMO.

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My head hurts!

When I said play their instruments I meant just that, to be able to play their instruments - rather than stand on stage with a laptop. I wasn't demanding them to be amazingly good, just able to play live. As for the punk thing, I was referring to the attitude rather than the playing. The Blockheads played jazz/funk and were "punk", The Police also were very good musicians who came out of punk. Punk really changed things, no way did "drum and bass" compare.

As for my record company comments, yes I was referring to the majors. I'm not advocating doing it alone, just hoping something will happen outside of the control of the big boys who will then have to get on board. I can't see that happening unless it's live. Like you said though, if the audience isn't there it can't happen. Still I can dream.

What I dream for is that my favorite decade of music will be the next ten years!

Who said "fat chance!"?

." Look at Adele's band when she performs live. She's an awesome singer - but man, they're so [ ****** ] session it's a disgrace. No soul. "

Ha ha - yeah - there is a lot of that around! To many have people studied 'Contemporary Music' now for any real claims of doing the deal at the crossroads. Talking of which , If I see Hugh Laurie again.....


I had a right laugh the other night watching a '76 TOTP. Anyone who holds the 70's in high esteem should watch these.

I KNOW its not about the charts - but really. Well funny. Lots of cabaret and working mans club acts made good. Mud doing disco! Very sobering reminder that it was never about the charts and nostagia can warp all kinds of things. I hope they keep going, I would love to watch the influence of punk and new wave come along.

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What I dream for is that my favorite decade of music will be the next ten years!

Who said "fat chance!"?

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Fat chance for you, apparently.

Quite likely for me, happily.

Edited by blue manga (16/05/11 08:51 AM)

Quote turbodave:

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Drum 'n bass?.....that was less a movement by kids and more a quest by record companies to find summat new!..too many of those IMO.

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Nottingham Clubs ol' bean - Nottingham clubs. Labels didn't "get it" until it had already happened. Ah slow old men that they were - oops, suddenly I am one....

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Quote turbodave:

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Drum 'n bass?.....that was less a movement by kids and more a quest by record companies to find summat new!..too many of those IMO.

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Nottingham Clubs ol' bean - Nottingham clubs. Labels didn't "get it" until it had already happened. Ah slow old men that they were - oops, suddenly I am one....

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I still don't get it....double time pseudo jazz/soul/house nonsense..a blend that sounds good on paper but rarely made me sit up...and have you tried parking in Nottingham?

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My head hurts!

?

DnB evolved from Jungle - which evolved from hardcore/breaks which evolved from acid house.

Of course the main guys pushing the new forms (at the time) were Fab & Groove who were also pivotal players in the Acid House scene.

It wasn't a carefully designed 'record label' thing - it was musical, cultural movement.

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It wasn't a carefully designed 'record label' thing - it was musical, cultural movement.

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Or someone making hip-hop accidentally knocked the Tempo knob to max!!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Or someone making hip-hop accidentally knocked the Tempo knob to max!!

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+1
I always suspected that

It was a very slow or big knob, gentleman - as the tempo went from the 120's (from house - not hiphop) - up into the 130's then into the 140's and then into the 160's and then into the 170's over a number of years.

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Or someone making hip-hop accidentally knocked the Tempo knob to max!!

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I always thought trip-hop sounded like a jungle 45 played at 33 1/3...

PS. Blue Manga, I'm with you on this one — jungle was a massive thing at the time and it continues to influence today. Plus it's wicked.

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Or someone making hip-hop accidentally knocked the Tempo knob to max!!

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I always thought trip-hop sounded like a jungle 45 played at 33 1/3...

PS. Blue Manga, I'm with you on this one — jungle was a massive thing at the time and it continues to influence today. Plus it's wicked.

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Yeah - and there was defo a relationship between Jungle DnB & Triphop .. that's for sure .. - also culturally - and timing wize ..

But this was all so long ago now .. what .. 16,17 years ?

All you need to know about the various genres

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

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?

DnB evolved from Jungle - which evolved from hardcore/breaks which evolved from acid house.

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which evolved from all the genres I have mentioned...it is a style of music that has been an influence rather than creating anything worthy within the confines of the genre.

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My head hurts!

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...it is a style of music that has been an influence rather than creating anything worthy within the confines of the genre.

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Well if giving millions of people a lot of pleasure is nothing worthy ..

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...it is a style of music that has been an influence rather than creating anything worthy within the confines of the genre.

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Well if giving millions of people a lot of pleasure is nothing worthy ..

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No! No! its not...bloody double time busy nonsense bah!...walks to bathroom cupboard for laxative and goes for a lie down.

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My head hurts!

My favorite decade of music: hmmmwell, I can tell you which isn't. I always had a major dislike for 80's music. Lot's from that decade appears to me as very lifeless electronic music and poor usage of effects. It just seems they didn't know what to do with all these new effects, synths and samplers.


Other than that I like most of the 40's 50's 60's, 70's and 90's. The 00's mainstream releases are a bit consumerish and not really innovative, on the other hand I do like the developments in drum n' bass, breakbeat and dubstep of the last 15 years a lot.

Dr Who...unlike the English music (Beatles, John mclaughlin, Led Zepp, UK Ska/reggea/dubstep/dnb make up around 80% of my music collection) I don't consider UK's sci-fi scene to be world's greatest. In fact...I think it's horrible. One probably has to be English to appreciate that stuff, I'll stick to the Star Wars saga (although Reagan's version was quite boring).

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who is Kees and why is he so special?

Star Wars is cowboys in space. And I'd go along with the first one being a UK film as it was pretty much made by Gil Taylor.... ha!

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Quote blue manga:

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Quote turbodave:

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...it is a style of music that has been an influence rather than creating anything worthy within the confines of the genre.

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Well if giving millions of people a lot of pleasure is nothing worthy ..

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No! No! its not...bloody double time busy nonsense bah!...walks to bathroom cupboard for laxative and goes for a lie down.

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lal. So they said about jazz, rock & roll, Funk, rock, fusion and the Beatles before. Perhaps more a sign of old-age-conservatism rather than the style itself being "worthy"? It can be very complex and not irregularly more challenging to properly produce than your average classic rocktune.

@narcoman,
better to have cowboys in space than big speaking fridges on wheels.

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who is Kees and why is he so special?

Edited by Vlaaing Peerd (25/05/11 11:33 AM)

full circle...

an excellent thread

but is their any point in focusing on one decade? i mean could you really make a dinstinction between one decade to the next? arent they all part of a bigger picture?

life - the universe - space - everything in fact is a cycle - this is what many religious organisations and sexts believe and rightly so

throughout the eyons man has moved from one technological stepping stone to another only to end up back at square one - you think of the development of the humble bike for instance - once an inocent penny farthing and plaything of tall northerners with a good sense of balance - but essentially a clumsy mode of transport used only by the working classes who couldnt of afforded cars - now in this day and age in 2011 our desired form and transprot is what? yes the bike - many surveys will endorse this view and their was a recent arcticle in the mail saying precisely this

so - where does that leave music?

well in fact musical trends have been no diffrent - to properly evaluate each musical decade just look at how the lirycal content changed and how - like the bike an allergy above - its gone full circle - let me explain further

in the 60 they were singing mainly about surfing (beach boys) - and who could of blamed them? that soulful earthy twangy sound of burt weedon doug dale and hank martin basically defined a generation - then it was up to the beatles to take the batton and run with it - which of course they did - but they didnt forget there surfing roots - just look at paperback wirter and day tripper - even octupussys garden (an ironic nod to the dangers of surfing if ever their was one)

and so here we are 60 years later in 2011 and what are we talking about? where is our lyrical content now? have we moved on?

no - because after singing about love - freedom - repressions - war - dancing etc throughout the 70ies up to the 2000's - the lyrical content of the here and now is...

...surfing!

a case in point -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmQf6rIB2w

and if you check out they're lyrics youll see they ironically and coincidentally talk about specific decades too!

and it has a real 60s surf doug dale sound!

full circle you see?

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www.colinskuttler.com

Interesting allergy Colin. How's Alan?

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...it is a style of music that has been an influence rather than creating anything worthy within the confines of the genre.

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Well if giving millions of people a lot of pleasure is nothing worthy ..

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No! No! its not...bloody double time busy nonsense bah!...walks to bathroom cupboard for laxative and goes for a lie down.

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lal. So they said about jazz, rock & roll, Funk, rock, fusion and the Beatles before. Perhaps more a sign of old-age-conservatism rather than the style itself being "worthy"? It can be very complex and not irregularly more challenging to properly produce than your average classic rocktune.

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I think you missed my point if you think "I" am "they". I have not said anything regarding , jazz or prog rock in this thread but will if you like.I like some prog and jazz, but much of it is self indulgent noodling...move on 20 + years "HELLO D'nB!!".. in my opinion the epitomy of self indulgent noodling, but I suppose cos its wiv computers and wears its baseball cap backwards that it must be me that has the problem...sorry!

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My head hurts!

Does anyone wear baseball caps backwards anymore?

Oh, while we're on that whole urban nonsense, can anyone tell me what happened to the 'eski-beat' thing? I'm sure it definitely happened, but I haven't heard sweet FA about it in years... Was it just a stop-gap between speed-garage and grime?

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Interesting allergy Colin. How's Alan?

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i'm reading this first thing in the morning and got a well-needed laugh from this. thanks, Korff!

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

to be quiet honest with you dubbelmen i don not see what is quite so funny about it yes i am fine but vecause it seemed niether colin nor i myself were that very welcome hear i have only been readin [posts not actualy posting as dar as our relationship i mean colin and myselfs relationshi[ as it our professional relationship not that kind of relationship is concerned as is well documented on all the forams and in the p[ress colin and i have now cone seperatew wayes due to server artistic differences i wont be posting here again
alam,