Due to some unforeseen events I must be rebuild my entires church system from scratch.. I was wondering if anyone can give me some good tips on how to keep things clean,organized and open enough so more work can be done easier down the road?

We are running this;

Mackie SR.24.4
Tascam CD-A630
two Furman power conditioners Model M-8
two Peavey 500 Professional stereo amplifiers 250 watts x2.
Mackie full symmetry dual differtional high current design power amplifier. M.1400100i
Two community MVP-12m Monitors (Unpowered)
one drummer monitor.

Quote JordanE:

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Due to some unforeseen events I must be rebuild my entires church system from scratch.. I was wondering if anyone can give me some good tips on how to keep things clean,organized and open enough so more work can be done easier down the road?

We are running this;

Mackie SR.24.4
Tascam CD-A630
two Furman power conditioners Model M-8
two Peavey 500 Professional stereo amplifiers 250 watts x2.
Mackie full symmetry dual differtional high current design power amplifier. M.1400100i
Two community MVP-12m Monitors (Unpowered)
one drummer monitor.

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See my last post in your other thread on how to handle monitors. You don't have any FOH listed here, I assumed it was just left out of the other thread since we were discussing monitors, but I could be wrong... do you in fact have FOH speakers and Amps?

The Furmans are to plug things into for power(AC). They also aren't really power conditioners, they are little more than power distribution units(Power Strips) for the record.

Seablade

Yes I apologize. We do have two FOH speakers. Which are being run on

"Mackie full symmetry dual differtional high current design power amplifier. M.1400100i"

I did see your other topic based on monitors. I have pretty much rebuilt the system from scratch my way. I made some tweaks and improvements so later down the road I can do it again with ease or access certain parts without having to do a complete disassemble.


One problem I am having is with the snake. For the life of me I cannot get any signal from the guitars which run through the snake to the board. I know the snake works I just have the channels mixed up for which one to plugin to the board and what not. Any ideas?


Also what would you recommend as a power amplifier for the monitors?

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For the life of me I cannot get any signal from the guitars which run through the snake to the board.

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How are you connecting the guitars to the snake?

Quote JordanE:

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Also what would you recommend as a power amplifier for the monitors?

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Community's website:
Recommended Power Amplifier: For maximum SPL: 300W to 450W @ 8 Ohms


There are lots of amps out there that can do that.
What is your budget?

QSC, Crown, Yamaha and even Behringer do amps in that power range.
Prices vary considerably.

I would recommend that you get a 2 x 31 band graphic EQ to sit inline between your mixer and monitor amps. Handy for feedback control.

HTH.

Stu.

Quote mpostor:

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For the life of me I cannot get any signal from the guitars which run through the snake to the board.

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How are you connecting the guitars to the snake?

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+1. Sounds like there aren't DI boxes there - something to add straight away.

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How are you connecting the guitars to the snake?

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Guitars are being run through a DI box. Which leads me to another question. Their are 4 buttons on the DI box what should I have them set to?

I plug the guitars via the DI box to the snake and at the other end grab the cable matching the channel on the snake. However I plug it in and you can obviously here feedback coming via the monitors. Yet when I plug it in still nothing as far as the guitars go.

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There are lots of amps out there that can do that.
What is your budget?

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Budget is no idea to be honest. I would imagine 200ish range. Since I need to run everything via the pastor and give an arm/leg to get anything I can't really say. I was unable to find a link to the amp you mentioned on their website. Would you mind providing me with a link?

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I would recommend that you get a 2 x 31 band graphic EQ to sit inline between your mixer and monitor amps. Handy for feedback control.

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Actually think I have one of these..Will need to check and give you guys the make/model.

Hi Jordan

What's the make and model of your DI box(es)?

Your budget for an amp is $200 - yes?

M

I am unsure of the actual make/model. I will need to get those when I go out their this week.


As far as the budget I am unsure. All I can say is if you guys find me the right one I will be sure to buy it. The pastor is a musician so he understands the unimportance of good equipment and so on...

I have 3 other kinds but I also have this;

http://uploads.fender.com/news/fender/599/30-dollar-DI-box.jpg.

I am running two DI boxes for the acoustic guitar mostly because I need an extension. Would that create a problem?

$200 budget for amps suggests that you are looking more at the Behringer end of things than Crown or QSC...

Put Community MVP12M into Google and the second listed result goes to:
MVP12M spec PDF
4th item down on the left of the screen.

I didn't know that Fender made DI boxes; your link gives a 404.
Without knowing the exact make and model (your link didn't give that info), here's a few things to try.
1. turn the monitors off. Let's concentrate with just getting the guitar into the desk first and we can worry about where it's sent later.
2. plug the output from the acoustic guitar into the jack input on the DI box, using a guitar cable that you know works.
3. Using a known working mic lead, plug one end into the DI box output and the other into the snake.
4. disengage any pad switches on the DI box.
5. go to the other end of the snake and plug the corresponding output connector into the mixing desk.
6. have someone play the guitar.
7. PFL the guitar channel and gradually bring up the gain until it registers nicely on the desk (gain structure is another ball game).

That should get you working.
If that doesn't work, you will need to work through the signal path replacing cables. Do you have a cable tester? Best $35 I ever spent. Saves a lot of time.
Have you tried a different guiar? Do you know that it works?
You will need to be methodical. Replace the guitar lead, replace the mic lead, try a diffent DI box, try a different snake channel, try running a long mic lead to bypass the snake (for diagnostic purposes; not recommended as a long term solution), try a different desk channel, and so on.
Something in the signal chain isn't right. Once you find that, you can work on the solution.

HTH.

Stu.

Sorry, just read the 'using two DI boxes bit'.
How are you connecting them?
You aren't using adapters to convert the mic XLR connector to a jack so that it will go into the DI box, are you?

Once a signal has left the DI box in a mic cable, you shouldn't need any other devices in the signal chain to the desk. If your mic cable isn't long enough, simply plug in another one. You can connect mic cables together almost ad infinitum (in this context).
Try using one DI box and several mic cables daisy chained together.
That should improve things.

Stu.

Good stuff from Stu (mpostor)

... and something I thought of overnight (!)... if it's an 'active' box, check that the battery is good OR that you have phantom-power engaged for that particular mic input (or both... won't do any harm if both power-sources are "on").

Jordan: did you find anyone from another church locally that could give any help/advice? I think you need someone 'on the spot' rather than us trying to give advice on a forum from thousands of miles away!

UPDATE: Just had a rummage around on Fender.com and I THINK the DI box pic that Jordan was trying to show us is of a generic, basic passive DI box. (Couldn't see four switches though...)

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Put Community MVP12M into Google and the second listed result goes to:
MVP12M spec PDF
4th item down on the left of the screen.

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SO from that PDF is looks like that that power amplifier is only good enough to power one of those monitors?

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I didn't know that Fender made DI boxes; your link gives a 404.
Without knowing the exact make and model (your link didn't give that info), here's a few things to try.
1. turn the monitors off. Let's concentrate with just getting the guitar into the desk first and we can worry about where it's sent later.
2. plug the output from the acoustic guitar into the jack input on the DI box, using a guitar cable that you know works.
3. Using a known working mic lead, plug one end into the DI box output and the other into the snake.
4. disengage any pad switches on the DI box.
5. go to the other end of the snake and plug the corresponding output connector into the mixing desk.
6. have someone play the guitar.
7. PFL the guitar channel and gradually bring up the gain until it registers nicely on the desk (gain structure is another ball game).

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As far as the DI boxes go their are four switches on them. on the top next to the HI-z out their is one that says "Ground" and "Lift" Near the bottom where their are the input output jacks it says "Instr" Spkr" which I assume means instrument and speaker? The guitar works for sure. Like I said when the guitar is unplugged and the channel is hot you can here the static that comes through the monitors. As soon as you plug it in you have nothing. I am going back out their tomorrow and I will do some more testing.

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Do you have a cable tester?

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I do have a cable tester and I should be using it..

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Sorry, just read the 'using two DI boxes bit'.
How are you connecting them?
You aren't using adapters to convert the mic XLR connector to a jack so that it will go into the DI box, are you?

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I am running the main guitar cable in to the input channel of the jack. Then another guitar cable to the input of the other DI box jack and then running a HI-Z out mic cable to the snake.

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... and something I thought of overnight (!)... if it's an 'active' box, check that the battery is good OR that you have phantom-power engaged for that particular mic input (or both... won't do any harm if both power-sources are "on").

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I got really messy when I was re wiring things..their is a extremely good chance the phantom power on the board was off. Since the DI boxes are not powered then selves..

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Jordan: did you find anyone from another church locally that could give any help/advice? I think you need someone 'on the spot' rather than us trying to give advice on a forum from thousands of miles away!

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I sure did! The guy who originally trained me is coming out tomorrow to help me get everything working and ready for Sunday. Even though giving advice over the forums is hard I enjoy it and consider it a good learning experience. Allow me to get hands on and make my own mistakes.

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UPDATE: Just had a rummage around on Fender.com and I THINK the DI box pic that Jordan was trying to show us is of a generic, basic passive DI box. (Couldn't see four switches though...)

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The first DI box shown here is one type of DI box we have;
http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=599

This one however only has the ground and lift to it. Not sure why or what the difference is for that fact..


Got another question for you guys. The mains or FOH seem to control one another. What I mean by that is if I turn up the right the left also goes up. Same thing with the left. I followed the wires and their on two different input outputs on the board and in the power amplifier then selves. Which is what confuses me. Also the balance on the board is set to default. So their now sending signal to each others speaker.

Also when the system was set up they ran the mains through DI boxes. I tested with out them and didn't hear any difference but I am curious as to why they are like that in the first place and is it needed?

Make sure your amp is set to stereo rather than parralell operation. If its not that, check your wiring again

Amp - That PV500 amp is only 120w per channel at 8ohms.
PV500 Manual
Yes, it's underpowered for those speakers, although it looks like you can get 400w out of it in bridge mode. Personally, I'd look to get an amp that's the right spec (two channels, 350w-400w per channel, etc).

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I am running the main guitar cable in to the input channel of the jack. Then another guitar cable to the input of the other DI box jack and then running a HI-Z out mic cable to the snake.

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IIRC, the instrument and speaker jacks on a DI box are connected directly so that you can tap the output of an amp (the DI box sits between the amp and the speaker).
It sounds as if what you are doing is using that as a way to extend the guitar cable. Lose that DI box. Plug the guitar into one DI box only and then use daisy chained mic cables to get to FOH.

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I got really messy when I was re wiring things..their is a extremely good chance the phantom power on the board was off. Since the DI boxes are not powered then selves..

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Ding, ding, there's the winner. It sounds as if you might have cross-wired something. Use your cable tester and check every line in the snake. Make sure that everything works and is in phase. Phase inversion isn't the problem but it never hurts to double check it while you're there.

The mains problem sounds like the amps are in Parallel mode, not stereo, as mentioned above. Parallel sends the signal received at the L input (for instance) to both sides of the amp. It effectively turns the amp into a mono amp.

HTH.

Stu.

Ok; the DI box you show a picture of is a passive one and doesn't require any form of power - battery or phantom.

I'm still not clear how you're connecting the guitars. Your reference to a High-Z mic cable intrigues me.

So to reinforce what Stu's already said, this is how it should be going...

* Guitar connected using standard jack-cable to jack input of DI box - switch set to "Instr".
* XLR output of DI box connected to snake using standard 3-connector XLR lead - length is immaterial.
* Relevant snake connector connected to XLR mic input of mixer.

Any deviation from that - we have "issues"!

Hope that helps. M

Sorry for the delay everyone on getting back to you.

As for the DI boxes we are running square blue Pro Performance DI boxes. Was unable to get the model number.

This is the exact same one. Different brand and color but same everything.
http://www.strutmanelectronics.com/images/dib443.jpg

I am also curious on how I should use this this piece of equipment I have laying around;

DBXi Project expander gate 274
http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/274%20Owners%20Manua l.pdf

One last questions. On one of my DI box channels I get feedback. It is not a lot and can only be heard when the volume is up. Also only happens nothing is plugged in. I have two other channels with the exact same configuration/settings and they do not have the problem. Little confused as to why this one has feedback.

I think it might be helpful to do a full test. Assume that nothing works, and go back to the beginning.

To test fully you should:
1) Plug a mic that you know works, using an XLR that you know works, directly into the mixing desk (no multicore) and make sure your channel on the mixing desk works.
2) Plug the DI box directly into the same channel and cable on the mixing desk, plug a jack cable into the DI and then tap the end of the jack plug with your finger. If you get hum/buzzing noise on the channel when your finger is on the jack plug then the DI is working. If you get no noise, then change the jack cable. Obviously if you still get no noise, then the DI is broken.
3) Assuming everything is working at the mixing desk, next, head to the end of the multicore. Plug everything into the channel you know is working with the DI, and try again. If it isn't working then you've got a fault on the multicore.

That should give you a clear picture as to what the problem actually is.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

I am going to be getting several more DI boxes soon. Does it matter on the brand or type?

Quote JordanE:

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I am going to be getting several more DI boxes soon. Does it matter on the brand or type?

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Are you planning on upgrading anything else or are you just getting more DIs?

If there's more than DIs in the pipeline you need a properly planned and estimated budget which has input from a knowledgable friend/associate - NOT a salesman. Reason is, you need to apportion your budget so that money gets spent appropriately and not disproportionately.

But assuming it's just DIs... I'd treat them as an investment and spend as much (or almost) as you would on a good qulaity stage vocal mic.

My favourites are Radial and BSS at the top of the tree, with Palmer and MTR at the next level. If money is tight then Samson do some good stuff for the money.

As for type, then for versatility I'd go for actives - but remember that ideally you should run these from phantom power rather than batteries. Cost and battery failure mid-service being the issues.

DIs are like everything else in life... you get what you pay for... so don't think they're all the same and be seduced by the $25 jobs.

Quote JordanE:

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I am going to be getting several more DI boxes soon. Does it matter on the brand or type?

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Yes.
There are some cheap and nasty ones out there.
The Behringer DI20 is one of those.

There are other makes and models out there, but you need to think about what you need them for and whether you need active or passive ones (that's dependant on what you intend to use them with).

Personally, I use Radial for my DIs. The ProD2 is a good passive stereo unit, but it's not cheap. You could get 6 Behringer DI20s for the cost of one ProD2. Then again you get what you pay for. What you put in to a ProD2 is what comes out of it. The DI20 definately changes the sound of the device plugged in to it, and not in a good way.
Radials J48 series are also very good, but again, not cheap.

It all comes down to requirements and budget.

Stu.

I will definitely go passive. I will be using them for guitars. I plan on having another band come in which will require a lot of guitar hook ups and need to be prepared.

As for the feedback I was talking about earlier, it seems that is has disappeared. I am thinking maybe a bad cable/short.

Also anyone know how or what I can use this for?

DBXi Project expander gate 274
http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/274%20Owners%20Manua l.pdf

Today is the day I get to go buy a new power amplifier for the stage monitors. Can you guys recommend one that will work? My budget will top out at $400. I plan on running two monitors and a drummer monitor. I need each channel to out out

"300W to 450W @ 8 Ohm"

This is what my current monitors require. I am also looking for a little room to grow. Any help would be amazing.

Quote JordanE:

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Today is the day I get to go buy a new power amplifier for the stage monitors. Can you guys recommend one that will work? My budget will top out at $400. I plan on running two monitors and a drummer monitor. I need each channel to out out

"300W to 450W @ 8 Ohm"

This is what my current monitors require. I am also looking for a little room to grow. Any help would be amazing.

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http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GX3/

Based off the numbers you posted at any rate.

CALL them and get a representative and ask how much they charge, don't go off the website. If you can find a Crown XTi amp for in your price range, I would say that route would be even better, but I suspect you will find them slightly out of your price range, sorry.

Your price range is certainly not a lot for the record, but either of those options should at least treat you well.

Seablade

Something like this?

http://www.proaudiostar.com/crown-xti-2000-stereo-power-amp.html?gclid=CIy A4v7O1akCFQVLgwodPlZqNQ

I think I can swing that..

According to their website the XTI 200 will give me 475 watts at 8ohms per channel. that is more then needed. I am assuming this is only two channels?

I have asked this question several times but didn't get an answer. Does anyone know how I should use this;

DBXi Project expander gate 274
http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/274%20Owners%20Manua l.pdf

I know it's for the guitars, I have a feeling it's will help will feedback from the mains?

Also I need a new CD player for the system. We want to start recording sermons but the current CD player will not do that. I am looking for a three disk but two will do CD player/recorder. Nothing fancy but I would like it to be some what modern if possible.

Edited by JordanE (27/06/11 08:10 AM)

Quote JordanE:

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Also I need a new CD player for the system. We want to start recording sermons but the current CD player will not do that. I am looking for a three disk but two will do CD player/recorder. Nothing fancy but I would like it to be some what modern if possible.

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Do you REALLY want to go the CD route?

These days very many churches are using various forms of digital recorder. That way you can upload to computer, do a quick start and end tidy-up, smooth dynamic range - and edit if necessary - then post to the web and/or burn CDs as required. In my experience, very quick and easy. Uploaded to web within 30 minutes of getting home.

... and if you need editing software I find Goldwave is very good and relatively inexpensive...

Doing it that way will be cheaper too!

Well I do plan on putting it on our website. However problem is the laptop we could use is so old it can barely start up and it is used for multimedia. So it is in use by another person when needing to be recording. Church has no internet well DSL 100kb down and like 30KB up. So I would need to take it home and tweak, upload anyways. Plus I need a new CD player. this one from the dam 90's wont play any burned CD's and it constantly skips tracks/freezes. Figured I would kill two birds with one stone.

Think what Mike means is a recorder like the Zoom H1. You don't need the mics from the recorder, bcos you only need a line-in from the desk, so no point spending extra for a fancy recorder with better mics.

Then you've got a recording where you only need to plug USB in and copy files off, instead of having to go the painful route of ripping the CD-R recording. And it won't cost you a CD-R a week either.

Quote JordanE:

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Something like this?

http://www.proaudiostar.com/crown-xti-2000-stereo-power-amp.html?gclid=CIy A4v7O1akCFQVLgwodPlZqNQ

I think I can swing that..

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Yes but several things turn me off about that site. One the XTi-2000 you linked to has actually been replaced in Crown's lineup by the XTi-2002. Second they have the XTi-2000 in the product description, but have it labeled in as the XTi-1000 in the specs.

Again I would strongly recommend calling Sweetwater and seeing how much they will sell an XTi for to you. They are a good group and if you get the right rep there can be very supporting and make good suggestions when you have questions like this.

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According to their website the XTI 200 will give me 475 watts at 8ohms per channel. that is more then needed. I am assuming this is only two channels?

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Well the thing is without going back to look at the entire thread, I am not exactly certain how much you need. You mentioned two monitors and a drum monitor, this means one channel will be running at a 4Ohm load most likely, and will have different needs than you posted. Sadly I am on vacation at the moment and connected via a cell connection so going back and looking at both threads would take some time for me right now.

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I have asked this question several times but didn't get an answer. Does anyone know how I should use this;

DBXi Project expander gate 274
http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/274%20Owners%20Manua l.pdf

I know it's for the guitars, I have a feeling it's will help will feedback from the mains?

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The question is, SHOULD you use it. Without looking at the manual, I am guessing it is a gate(Rather than a true expander which IMO is slightly more useful) both of which will lower levels when a signal is below a certain threshold. This CAN be useful on buzzing guitar amps to lower levels when they are not being played, it can also be useful on drums to lessen the issues of blled in close mic'd drum kits, and can be useful in other circumstances. But using it just because you have it is the wrong answer. Identify a problem, then see if it is the right answer, don't look for a problem to solve with it.

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Also I need a new CD player for the system. We want to start recording sermons but the current CD player will not do that. I am looking for a three disk but two will do CD player/recorder. Nothing fancy but I would like it to be some what modern if possible.

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I would say the previous suggestions of going off of CD at this point do make sense, though I do still spec a CD recorder in systems I design for houses of worship in most cases. Thing is they use the Solid State recorders far more than they do the CD recorders, and use the CD recorder only to transfer onto CD when they need to.

That being said, you won't find a decent recorder of any type cheap, and chances are you won't find a CD recorder that is a multi disc tray mechanism at all. Are you looking for a rackmountable unit? What inputs does it need? Does it need to always start recording at a set time, or will you be starting it manually each time? These are all questions that need to be answered in order to give you a proper suggestion.

Seablade

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The question is, SHOULD you use it. Without looking at the manual, I am guessing it is a gate(Rather than a true expander which IMO is slightly more useful) both of which will lower levels when a signal is below a certain threshold. This CAN be useful on buzzing guitar amps to lower levels when they are not being played, it can also be useful on drums to lessen the issues of blled in close mic'd drum kits, and can be useful in other circumstances. But using it just because you have it is the wrong answer. Identify a problem, then see if it is the right answer, don't look for a problem to solve with it.

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Besides a little buzz from the guitars I do not think I need it.

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I would say the previous suggestions of going off of CD at this point do make sense, though I do still spec a CD recorder in systems I design for houses of worship in most cases. Thing is they use the Solid State recorders far more than they do the CD recorders, and use the CD recorder only to transfer onto CD when they need to.

That being said, you won't find a decent recorder of any type cheap, and chances are you won't find a CD recorder that is a multi disc tray mechanism at all. Are you looking for a rackmountable unit? What inputs does it need? Does it need to always start recording at a set time, or will you be starting it manually each time? These are all questions that need to be answered in order to give you a proper suggestion.

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Yes,

I would prefer a rack mountable unit. I will manually start the recording when it is time. It needs to have an output/input audio jacks, because we play a lot of CD's before and after the service.

Is their another easier way to record sermons? As I wont have access to a computer to record. All I need is to be able to make one master copy then take it home and upload to the internet. I would do all burning and what not from my home computer.

The cheapest rackmount recorder I would suggest these days would probably be this....

http://tascam.com/product/ss-r05/

If you can afford the price I would suggest that the locking and balanced connectors of the next step up are worth it...

http://tascam.com/product/ss-r1/

Although if you absolutely need to have CD recorder capabilities you could look at this...

http://tascam.com/product/ss-cdr1/

None of these are particularly cheap, they start at about $400 (Call Sweetwater for pricing) and go up from there quickly to about $1000. Marantz does make some alternative units, but they are similar in price or even more expensive in some cases and I find the gain structure of the Tascams much better myself, so I tend to spec them instead of Marantz units.

You can go cheaper by getting a small handheld recorder as suggested above, which you can get for as cheap as $80 or so, so if you are looking for something short term this can be an option. You will want to look for one with line inputs of course. This will obviously not be rackmountable, but it gives an option for the time being if money is an issue, and it sounds like it is. The Zoom recommended above is perfectly fine to use, there are also plenty of alternatives out there, again I would tend to look towards Tascam myself, but I have no issue with Zoom's units.

All of these units record directly to a file(And you want to ensure you are recording at 24 bit these days if at all possible, it makes doing basic editing MUCH easier and better), and you can even have them record direct to MP3. I don't typically recommend this, as compressing to a lossy format such as MP3 should be the last step before uploading for podcasts. I am not sure exactly how much editing you are planning on doing, but chances are at the minimum you will decide a program such as Levelator and/or Audacity will be quite beneficial. Both are free, and you can decide how much effort you wish to put into it really.

Seablade

Quote JordanE:

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Is their another easier way to record sermons? As I wont have access to a computer to record. All I need is to be able to make one master copy then take it home and upload to the internet. I would do all burning and what not from my home computer.

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Well, as grab has already flagged, something like the Zoom H2 or Tascam DR05 would do fine for making the recording from a line-out on your board. Using one of those would mean either taking the unit home to transfer the recording via USB or removing the SD card and using a card-reader at home.

Tascam also do a range of rack-mountable digital recorders (The SS series), but these are a bit more expensive. Again, you'd need to remove the card to take home for file transfer.

At the cheaper end of the spectrum the iKEY Audio RM3 is rack-mountable and allows you to record to SD card or USB stick. Obvioulsy USB stick is much easier to move about. I've used this method myself in the past.

We currently have an Iphone which does recording. It is not the best but it does the job. I do not plan on doing much editing but will do some.

The ones you sent me besides the last one seem to do only recording. Which is fine but still leaves me out on the CD player. The route I will go is buy a CD player then a separate recorder. Might even go with the Zoom H2 or Tascam DR05. So that solves the CD recording part...


Now for the actual CD player. I need a new one. I have looked around and been unable to find ones I like. Can anyone recommend a decent CD player for me? Again nothing fancy just needs to play CD's. I would like to have two slot but one slot would be fine.

Quote Mike Stranks:

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At the cheaper end of the spectrum the iKEY Audio RM3 is rack-mountable and allows you to record to SD card or USB stick. Obvioulsy USB stick is much easier to move about. I've used this method myself in the past.

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Yes but they only record 16 bit IIRC, a major downside to me.

In as far as CD players, I don't have any specific playback units I look for off hand, though my suggestion is to find a unit that is capable of single track playback, meaning it will automatically pause and cue up the next track when the end of the last track is reached. This becomes exceedingly useful if your church does any sort of drama and will want to use sound effects.

Tascam obviously has several units that are rackmountable, but depending on what you are looking for you can probably find cheaper as well, especially from DJ manufacturers if needbe.

Seablade

As for the power amplifier that Seablade mentioned, this seems to be what they have in stock.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=xti&sb=low2high

Now I see some good amps their with enough power per channel but the OHMS are not correct. I do not know how vital that it for the operation of the stage mix. If it is not vital I will most likely go with this one since it is the cheapest and provides enough power per channel.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XTi1002/

OR

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GX5/ (with the correct OHMS)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS2500/ (with the correct OHMS)

As for CD players I have been looking at these;

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200i/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200iBal/

Another thing I need is an headphone amplifier so I can run the drummer on his own mix.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SAmp/

Will this do? or should I consider another brand?

Quote seablade:

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Quote Mike Stranks:

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At the cheaper end of the spectrum the iKEY Audio RM3 is rack-mountable and allows you to record to SD card or USB stick. Obvioulsy USB stick is much easier to move about. I've used this method myself in the past.

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Yes but they only record 16 bit IIRC, a major downside to me.

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I take the point Seablade, but as Jordan is only recording sermons for non-commercial purposes I think a 16-bit WAV is acceptable.

Quote:

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the OHMS are not correct

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If it'll do 4 ohms, it'll do 8 ohms happily. (The lower the ohms, the harder it is on the amp.) But you need to check what the power output is for 8 ohms, because it'll be lower than for 4 ohms. Some stores and/or manufacturers will quote the 4 ohm figure, because "look, it's a big number!", rather like boom-box makers quoting power in PMPO Watts.

This is a very standard bit of marketing flim-flam, so check the specs for what you actually get at 8 ohms. If the distributor doesn't say, hit the manufacturer's website. Usually a good first guess is that for 8 ohm speakers the amp will give you half the power it would for 4 ohm speakers, but some can do a bit better than that. It's a bit crap that Sweetwater are quoting these numbers but not the 8 ohm ones, but maybe that's the advertising blurb that Crown gave them. In which case it's a bit crap that Crown are doing that. Either way, both companies should know better.

TASCAM SSR1 is also 16Bit.

Regards

Gary

Quote Gary M:

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TASCAM SSR1 is also 16Bit.

Regards

Gary

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And this is why double checking what I say isn't bad , you are absolutely correct, I was thinking of the HD-R1 which does 24 bit(And is a fair amount more expensive). So ignore what I said about my recommendations above.

In as far as 16 vs 24 bit, Mike, as someone that does exactly this on a weekly basis, I can't tell you how many times i have wished for 24 Bit recording as the system I work with is recording straight to CD and the noise floor is obvious due to the large dynamic range of the recordings involved. In fact I am in the middle of doing repairs to a machine to get exactly this as it bugs me that much, and I lose to much time every week trying to clean up noisy recordings when I would much rather get the recording right the first time.

If we had efficient processing in front of a 16 Bit deck, then I would have less issue about the 16 Bit recordings, and in fact that is one thing I am implementing in this system as well as 24 bit recordings, effective processing before the lower quality recorders so that immediate distribution of a decent quality is available as needed(And it is needed). However in this case it doesn't sound like that is a possibility due to finances. So I would probably recommend going with a non-rackmount unit for the time being as I stated above until finances are available to do it right.

In as far as Impedance (Ohms) you can always go higher than the rated impedance of an amp, but never go lower than what an amp is rated at(Meaning if you see numbers for 4 and 8 Ohms, don't lower your impedance to 2 Ohms, you risk damaging your equipment.) For a little more info you can read what I give to my students on the topic as notes to go along with my lectures here...

http://misc.leviathan-avc.com/temp/61.pdf

The smallest XTi amp you posted will be slightly to small, you will need to go with the XTi 2002 for proper power based off the numbers you posted.

In as far as headphone amps, the S-Amp will likely work fine, though you may find you want to spend the little extra money and go with a small mixer like the SoundCraft Notepad. This will be a benefit in case your drummer has a click track they want to play along with, etc. along with providing your headphone amp. The NotePads are now my default mixer for drummer monitors as I have replaced across all of my systems with them for that purpose.

Seablade

The next step up will provide plenty of power per channel for my monitors;

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XTi2002/

Out of these three CD players which one will do what I need it to do best?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200i/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200iBal/

Are their any good brands I should be looking for on headphone amplifiers?

Seems I didn't get to check the second page before posting. I think I am going to buy this CD player as it is the cheapest and will do what I need it to do.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD200/

As from the other post the headphone amp I picked out will do just fine. So I will buy this one.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SAmp/

For the power amplifier I will buy this one

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XTi2002/

Now one of the last things I need is a non rack mountable recorder. I have seen some suggestions in this topic, however after looking I cannot find one with a line in for recording. If someone can recommend a decent one that would be great.

I believe with all of this other equipment listed above I should be set for a long time. If their are any complaints or suggestions please let me know.

Quote JordanE:

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Now one of the last things I need is a non rack mountable recorder. I have seen some suggestions in this topic, however after looking I cannot find one with a line in for recording. If someone can recommend a decent one that would be great.

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Hi Jordan

I'm a bit puzzled by this statement as I don't know any of the non-rack recorders that DON'T take a line-in. For instance, both the Zoom H2 and Tascam DR05 which I mentioned earlier in the thread definitely do.

Are you looking for a particular type of line connector on the recorder?

M

Maybe I looked at them wrong. My bad.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong however looking at these pictures I do not see a line in. I see a line out..

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DR05/?utm_source=Google&utm_med ium=PPC&utm_campaign=recording&utm_term=tascam_dr05&gclid=CJnN4ajp2qkCFQM_bAod 1zRbZQ

Look for the 3.5mm connector marked MIC/EXT IN between the two inbuilt mics.

Chances are that's a stereo input.

Stu.

To quote from the specs: "1/8" stereo mic/line input". Sorted.

AH ok. Thanks for sorting that out.