Hi there, sorry to be a pain and I apologise if this has already been covered elsewhere!

I play in a band and we are looking to do some recording of our rehearsals, nothing too fancy but we may be putting them onto our websites. The problem is we have a limited knowledge of this sort of stuff between us, besides some tweaking with an old fostex 4 track.

We do have a basic field recorder in the form of a Zoom H2 and the mix is always taken up by the acoustic drums and obviously we can't eq individual instruments. We are looking to record all live with mics on 3 guitar amps, 2 vocal mics, a kick drum mic and maybe 2 overheads for the drums and connect the bass direct.

At the minute we kind of have 2 options, one is to purchase a Firewire audio interface and utilise an (apparently) powerful laptop using Cubase to record all tracks live. Or purchase a mixer (ideally 2nd hand) and use that to mix the sound, recording to a computer in stereo. I have been offered an old Studiomaster 16-4-2 at around £50 and was thinking we could utilise that. We do all prefer the kind of vintage analogue sound but obviously we're all novices at this sort of thing!

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Al

The former rather than the latter. Much harder to get something listenable without really knowing what you're doing if recording straight to stereo.

I'd go for something simple - one mic' per instrument and three on the drums (maybe 4 if you really want). One over head, one on the kick and one on the snare. Stops you from messing about too much and keeps it simple.

I'm with narco - definitely avoid the mixer scenario in your situation.

I don't use Firewire myself, but have read many comments on this forum about Firewire issues. Does it have to be Firewire or would USB2 be OK for you?

Also, thinking a bit sideways... have you considered something like the Zoom R16? 8 tracks of simultaneous recording direct to an SD card, or used as an interface to a DAW. I have one that I use for location recording and it serves me well. Just a thought...

M

I'd follow Narcoman's advice. Although I've done plenty of rehearsal recordings through a mixer straight to stereo in the old days, modern multichannel interfaces are relatively cheap and make life much easier.

However, I would also suggest that you think about why your H2 recordings aren't working. If all you can hear is drums, does this say something about the drummer? I've used single mics or stereo mics to record rehearsals and they've often been well balanced enough to use for demos and bonus tracks.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

James makes a good point. You could look at where you put your amps (etc) in the rehearsal room and place your H2 such that they capture the amps in a more balanced way.

+1 to what's been said. Multitrack interface is the way to go, with close mics on cabs. Also, you could DI the guitars/bass if the drums are too loud in the room and you have no joy getting the drummer to turn things down, and treat them with amp sims later. Alternatively, if you stick with the stereo recorder (where placement is indeed your first thing to check) and drums are too loud, try getting the drummer to play with a set of hotrods instead of sticks - so he *can't* play that loud.

.... that should be a rehearsal mandate!

Hi there, thanks so much for your valued input its very much appreciated!

Looks like an interface is the future then so I shall scrap the mixer idea.

In regards to using the H2, I forgot that recently we've actually used a H4n which has only 2 mics, where as the H2 has the 4 mic surround with the 3d fader option after recording so we can try and postedit a good balance. I shall try the H2 next time and see what happens!

Our drummer doesn't seem to play that loud but I think the hotrods idea is a good one, definitely!!!

Thanks again for your help,

Cheers,

Al

P.s.

Is using Cubase difficult? None of us have any real experience of using computer recording software to be honest.

Also USB is another option that I shall look into!

Cheers

Al

nah - Cubase is easy but might be a little daunting as a newbie. Pretty simple once you understand what it's doing. You have any experience with recording at all?

Do you understand the basics of the workflow?

Keep it simple! I would mic everything up (or DI keys and bass if poss) with 1 mic.Put a dynamic mic close to and in between bass drum and snare then, unlike more sensitive mics you wont get so much ambient mess and the mic will still handle the SPLs.I have achieved quite good results putting an sm58 under the snare facing towards the bass drum skin. Dave

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My head hurts!

Quote Bloodbuzz:

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Is using Cubase difficult? None of us have any real experience of using computer recording software to be honest.

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When I tried learning an older version of Cubase I found it frustrating having to change the tool that you were using all the time. However, more recently I used its big brother, Nuendo, on a session and found it fairly logical so maybe they've improved Cubase.

I'd always recommend that you give Reaper a try - it costs much less than Cubase and, in my experience, seems very reliable for live multitrack recording.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Bloodbuzz:

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I forgot that recently we've actually used a H4n which has only 2 mics

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It has two on-board mics, but it also has two eternal mic inputs on XLR with phantom power and can act as an audio interface with a computer. So you could eg record drums/whole band with the onboard mics, and track a bass and guitar via the external inputs, and then overdub vocals... or somesuch, without having to invest in a new interface. In the long run, though, an 8+ IO interface will make life a lot easier. Or maybe something like the Zoom R16 which will allow you to track 8 signals without computer and then use it as a computer interface later for mixing.

Personally, I'd go for something like laptop + Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 or Zoom R16 if working on a budget; and Mixer or rack of preamps, plus hard disk recorder (HD24 + Fireport, or JoeCo Blackbox etc) if budget is less restricted - and then mix later on a computer. Or you could go for a Firewire mixer that doubles up as a recording interface and add a laptop, which should give you the familiarity/flexibility of a mixer. Just make sure you get one that allows multitrack recording eg Onyx 1640i or some such.

Hotrods are great because bringing the drums down in level means you can bring the guitars down in level... all of which means you stand a chance of hearing the signal you're recording on cans in the live room before you commit to recording it!

+1 Reaper.

Zoom R16 comes with Cubase LE and at under £300 gotta be the way to go and I agree with the hotrods!
Jed

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Professional Recording in the heart of the Fenlands

Hi narcoman,

we've all done some basic recording on analogue 4 tracks and used both the H2 and H4 but never used a computer based recorder. Both myself and the bassist have done some post production using Audacity on the H2 stereo recordings.

Not sure quite what you are referring to with workflow!!

Thanks for the help,

Cheers,

Al

P.s. thanks to you all for you help, its very much appreciated.

I shall update you with how it goes!!

Cheers,

Al

Quote Bloodbuzz:

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Hi narcoman,

we've all done some basic recording on analogue 4 tracks and used both the H2 and H4 but never used a computer based recorder. Both myself and the bassist have done some post production using Audacity on the H2 stereo recordings.

Not sure quite what you are referring to with workflow!!

Thanks for the help,

Cheers,

Al

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Nope - that's enough! You've got the fundamentals of "what's going on inside". That'll do you well enough to get a handle on Cubase. In other words: Setting up an input, installing and working with the interface, understanding what clipping is, setting a useful level with the interface preamps and mixing signals together to get a listenable result.

You'll do fine with Cubase or Reaper. My preference out of those two would actually be Cubase.

Quote Mixedup:

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Personally, I'd go for something like laptop + Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 or Zoom R16 if working on a budget; and Mixer or rack of preamps,

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A good point here that might be in danger of being overlooked! Don't forget that for every microphone you set up you are going to need a preamp for it somewhere.. so be sure to look at interfaces with enough preamps for your needs or a small mixer to go in between mics and interface line-ins.
Sorry if that's teaching you to suck eggs (!), but worth flagging up that simply getting an interface with only, say, 2 pres and trying to plug 6 or 8 mics into it won't work.