A collegue and friend of mine has been looking online for a Yamaha Tyros3 for about 6 months now, looking for a used or ex demo. having looking in the usual local music shops and on eBay, he has found ones that have been in and around the £1500-£2300 mark. On eBay, for example, he has found them at £1200, and then in the final dying minutes, they have shot up, but yesterday he found a UK site called Music Lot - www.musiclot.co.uk, which bills itself as a music trading site for equipment.

On it, it showed it started on 13th Nov 2010 and opening to public 28th February, allows users to register accounts and runs like eBay.

On it there were only a few registered memebers, not a huge amound of items, but the main seller we could find was Umbrella Music, a shop in London.

They had a review from a seller and so all seemed well. Looking at the site we put the lack of items down to the fact that it was still establishing itself. There were a number of items there with varying times left on their auctions.

Of the few items on there was an ex demo Tyros3 with a starting bid at £800, and at the time, 130-ish people had viewed the item. So my friend registered an account, and placed a bid of £800. It had run for a month nearly and there was an hour or so to go.

Watching patiently, the time ran down and he had won the bid.

We found the number online for Umbrella Music so ran up to see if legit, and was told that the main guy who was selling was out, but yeah, had won it and as soon as payment was received then it would be dispatched. So he paid via PayPal, got all the receipts, recevied all the auto-reply emails from the site. Result

Then I got a call off my friend later on, saying that the seller had contacted him stating that the site shouldn't have been up online, that it was being tested, how the hell did he find it and that he would now refund the money he had paid through PayPal.

Now, I am obviously writing this as a warning about the site and the dubious practices. Maybe I am cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me if the site, which seems to have been set up by Umbrella Music, or they have close ties etc... wasn't being watched and because they didn't help rack up the bid price, or they expected it to be much higher, given on their site a T3 ex demo seems ot be going for around £2k

Either way, we are both not happy and in addition to the warning, does anyone have any idea of recourse? I am a trusting soul really and think if it was a simple mistake, fair enough, but make some sort of compromise, but again, I think maybe they were caught out.

With the payment being made and accepted by PayPal, surely there is something there that can be done? Didnt the rules change with distance selling and online advertising recently and is now covered by UK Law? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thank you guys

Ritchie

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog

Hi, If you have communication with them proving the existence of the item and accepting your winning bid, then assuming they accept they have the item ( with the help of paypal/ebay) then at the very least you should get your money back and at best maybe pressurise them into sending the item. ....DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH THOUGH! Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

So DID he refund your payment? If so, what "recourse" are you looking for?

Yes, I know. Technically there was an offer and an acceptance, you should get it at that price.

Hi guys, yes, it was refunded, and Umbrella Music did have Tyros3's in stock, but they said that THAT item at THAT price now doesn't exist. They were never intending to sell it.

All my friend wants is the item he paid for. They did say they would try to source one, but neither of us are holding breaths!

Funny, the DO have ones on eBay, and are about £500 more expensive! And they rise in cost at the end of bidding

Not good practice

Ritchie

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog

Quote RitchieM:

---

Hi guys, yes, it was refunded, and Umbrella Music did have Tyros3's in stock, but they said that THAT item at THAT price now doesn't exist. They were never intending to sell it.

All my friend wants is the item he paid for. They did say they would try to source one, but neither of us are holding breaths!

Funny, the DO have ones on eBay, and are about £500 more expensive! And they rise in cost at the end of bidding

Not good practice

---

Just write it off to experience and be thankful the money came back! Mostly, when you go after a deal that is too good to be true, it doesn't. This sounds like an honest vendor who misunderstood the auction system.

I would like to believe it was genuine mistake with Musiclot, but surely if you are testing a site, you would put a huge banner saying it isn't live and only for testing, or even password protect access for those testing it

Either way, I and my friend would advise caution

Ritchie

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog

Is the site still being ahem "tested" ?

--------------------
My head hurts!

Click the link and see!

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog

Quote turbodave:

---

Is the site still being ahem "tested" ?

---

sorry should have added Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Me too!!!

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog

HI All,

My name is Matt Jonns - Founder of MusicLot.co.uk and Managing Director of Umbrella Music.

I think it's very important that I respond to this thread as what was just a simple mistake from my team here has obviously caused a big problem.

At the time the site was in test mode and we had no marketing going to the site. On reflection of course we should have had a banner up to say the site was in test mode, that is a mistake that should not have been made.

As soon as the mistake was realized we immediately cancelled the order and refunded the PayPal transaction. I personally made a call to apologize for the mistake and was on the phone for over half an hour explaining how the mistake was made and what we were going to do about it. The person who took the call from within Umbrella Music is not involved with MusicLot and should not have given the info that he did.

As a young businessman trying to made something of myself in this very tough industry I immediately realized that this mistake could reflect very badly on us as a company but thought if I swiftly sorted the issue with a personal phone call that this may appease the situation.

From the bottom of my heart I am very sorry again for the mistake and can promise everyone out there that MusicLot is a great platform to sell and buy and as it grows will become better and better. The site officially went live last week so over the next few weeks it will start to become more populated with products from retailers and single one off sellers.

I can assure everyone that the site is very much legit and is no way used to "bump up" the prices of other auctions. Umbrella Music use eBay very rarely and their main sales channel is though their site so this would not be in the interests of either company. Clearly MusicLot is only going to grow and be trusted if we offer an excellent service and platform for sellers and buyers alike.

I have been on the look out for a Tyros 3 and even said to the buyer that if it costs me £200 to find him one at the price he paid I would do it.

If anybody needs to contact me my email address is matt@music.co.uk and I would be more than happy to clarify anything and also offer any info on the site!

I really think that MusicLot will become something that this industry will be proud of.

Many thanks

Matt Jonns

Fair play, you have the balls to say you made a mistake and you will make good the customer good if you can. Good luck to you in your new business.

Nice one Matt, It doesn't smell anywhere near as wiffy as it did......good luck with your business and thanks for your communication. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Matt, I was with Phil when he made the bid, won it and called to confirm, and he has said that he spoke to someone that it was in test mode, and the promise of trying to find a Tyros 3.

Obviously, at the time we were both very unimpressed by what happened, and what was more frustrating was that we both searched before bidding to look for any problems, if Umbrella was legit etc... and found absolutely nothing that caused us concern. Hence the bid, the registering, and hence when Phil rang me late Friday evening to tell me what had happened.

As I have been a member on here for a while (lurker for longer!), as you can imagine, the fact that I posted this on here meant that I was concerned about what appeared to be slightly dodgy business practices, and the offer of finding one at the bid price seemed very like a good gesture, but thats all it could have been. Scruples and money do not always go hand in hand!


I think that for yourself to come onto the forum here and state your case and putting personal contact details shows a superb attitude towards your business and your reputation. If you feel so inclined to speak to a Moderator on this matter to get the post removed, then please do so, as I would not like to see your business harmed if it was a legitimate mistake.

All I would ask for is that if there is any additional testing being done, that you put protocols in place to avoid the situation that we have had here. And give a big BIG bol£$"king to the webmaster / developer for not putting a banner on the site or restriction the signing up on it.

Good luck, and I hope you manage to resolve the matter with Phil, just so he doesn't keep showing me eBay pages at work!!!

Ritchie

--------------------
Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
Wedding Band Blog