I have just started out writing and recording music, I play a single keyboard and sing.

I don't think the quality of my recordings is very good, but I'm only 17 years old (!!) and as a beginner I haven't wanted to spend a lot of money, I am also determined to keep my setup as simple as possible!

Anyway, I was wondering if it was possible to improve the quality of my music without having to record it again (or perhaps just recording the vocals again)... can you pay a professional to do this sort of thing?

Here is a link to my YouTube channel (without trying to advertise!!), so you can judge the sound quality of my music, bearing in mind YouTube will have reduced the quality slightly.

http://www.youtube.com/FreyaGustava

Thanks!

To be honest, the naively cheesey quality of the keyboard actually has a charm in this context. I don't think you'd get away with it song after song, but it does work on that one. In fact in that song I'd celebrate the cheesiness and crunch the sounds up even more, but that's just me.

Great performance, BTW!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote CelticFreya:

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I have just started out writing and recording music, I play a single keyboard and sing.

I don't think the quality of my recordings is very good, but I'm only 17 years old (!!) and as a beginner I haven't wanted to spend a lot of money, I am also determined to keep my setup as simple as possible!

Anyway, I was wondering if it was possible to improve the quality of my music without having to record it again (or perhaps just recording the vocals again)... can you pay a professional to do this sort of thing?

Here is a link to my YouTube channel (without trying to advertise!!), so you can judge the sound quality of my music, bearing in mind YouTube will have reduced the quality slightly.

http://www.youtube.com/FreyaGustava

Thanks!

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Have you ever heard of Kate Bush by any chance LOL

The mix and production is poor BUT - the ideas are great and the overall vibe is fab. You got something there kiddo... I like it very much.

My advice would be to choose another career path!

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Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!

I'd trust me more kiddo ......

Freya... listen to narco....

Take his comments as a massive compliment... he knows 'the biz' very well and isn't any old wannabe producer/artist. He's been there, done that... and made money from it!

Well done!

Lots of potential there. At some point I would look into the backing sounds you are using - if you get something rich and interesting going on in the instruments your voice and writing is good enough to draw an audience.

and don't listen to the naysayers, I'm sure the likes of Morrissey were told to 'forget it' many times over. Why? because they dared to be different.

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www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm


Edited by Shambolic Charm (26/06/11 10:13 AM)

Nightwish meets Kate Bush, meets the instrumental sound quality from the original nintendo gameboy based mario bros games.



get yerself a band girly..... there's potential in ideas, and vocal talent, but really, get some decent music under it....

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My advice would be to choose another career path!

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I hope you're joking otherwise my constructive criticism is you need a big internet kick up the arse, hope that helps.

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'You know it's a bad role when Nic Cage passes on it.'

I like the electronic vibe actually - screw the band.

Quote CelticFreya:

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I have just started out writing and recording music, I play a single keyboard and sing.

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I don't THINK that recording was made by simply putting a mic in front of you playing a "single keyboard" and singing. (Any more than the video came from you setting a camera up, pressing start and running round the front!)

You obviously have a certain amount of technical support, both equipment and people. To advise you how to progress, it would be useful to know just what.

That's ace!

I reckon you should do a record with Scott Walker!

Personally I don't think you should go down the band route. In my mind I think a quite clinical electronic backing could work great, or some kind of abstract 'real' sounds as a backing, rather in the vein of Scott Walker's 'The Drift'.

But that's just my opinion, not career advice!!

Aled

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Bill Withers while Tom Waits, and Stan Getz

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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You obviously have a certain amount of technical support, both equipment and people. To advise you how to progress, it would be useful to know just what.

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Hmmm, you can think what you like. I have had no 'technical support', no one has helped me with anything, I taught myself to play the keyboard and have tried my best to make the music sound half decent... there is no one else involved which is why of course there's so much room for improvement, I rely completely on myself.

well - I've laid my cards out. I like it and I think you've got something. The production and mix aren't great but you defo have a great vibe about you.

... it's like Lady GaGa and Nick Cave having a drink with Fields of the Nephalim whilst watching Timbaland do some goth rock. Bizarre but interesting!


Further - is that you singing live to the backing track? If it is (and if it isn't your great at miming) then you have great vocal control.....

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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You obviously have a certain amount of technical support, both equipment and people. To advise you how to progress, it would be useful to know just what.

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Hmmm, you can think what you like. I have had no 'technical support', no one has helped me with anything, I taught myself to play the keyboard and have tried my best to make the music sound half decent... there is no one else involved which is why of course there's so much room for improvement, I rely completely on myself.

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OK, I believe you! Let's concentrate on the equipment.

So, what keyboard? Recorded how, into what? Isn't there some sequencing involved there? And for the voice? What microphone? How was the whole thing recorded and mixed?

Great job on the video, if you managed that all by yourself too!

Quote narcoman:

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I like the electronic vibe actually - screw the band.

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Thank you, I understand how cheesy the music sounds... my keyboard was £40 from a charity shop!! But I thought I could maybe use the quirkiness to my advantage. I was even considering getting a little old Yamaha from the 80's to use live...

Quote Jonnypopisical:

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My advice would be to choose another career path!

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WTF?
Away & crawl back under your stone, pal !!
The lassie doesn't want to hear crap like that.
I checked her 2 vids - she's definately got something there.

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Quote narcoman:

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... it's like Lady GaGa and Nick Cave having a drink with Fields of the Nephalim whilst watching Timbaland do some goth rock. Bizarre but interesting!

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LMAO!... I like that.

Quote narcoman:

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Further - is that you singing live to the backing track? If it is (and if it isn't your great at miming) then you have great vocal control.....

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Nope, I wasn't singing live. I needed to get the miming spot on 'cause the camera was so close to my face haha.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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OK, I believe you! Let's concentrate on the equipment.

So, what keyboard? Recorded how, into what? Isn't there some sequencing involved there? And for the voice? What microphone? How was the whole thing recorded and mixed?

Great job on the video, if you managed that all by yourself too!

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The keyboard I use is a Yamaha PSR-630 which goes into an interface (Motu Ultralite MK3) the to my computer. I record all the track layers on Cubase (version LE) then I export them individually into... here comes the embarrassment... Audacity! because I can arrange everything easily on there; I change the volume level of each track on there and use it to pan some parts left/right. My mic is a Shure Beta 87A and I record the vocals in the same way as the music - Cubase then Audacity.

Some parts (like the drums) are obviously on a loop, I record a pre-set beat from my keyboard so I can get my timing right when recording my own beat, I then delete the pre-set one that I initially recorded.

Kinda kept thinking that the performance was kinda Mighty Boosh-esque.

Not really my thing, but you have an idea of the performance ethic, unlike millions of clueless wanabees - so find your voice, develop it and your skills, and go with it. Good luck!

Quote CelticFreya:

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The keyboard I use is a Yamaha PSR-630 which goes into an interface (Motu Ultralite MK3) the to my computer. I record all the track layers on Cubase (version LE) then I export them individually into... here comes the embarrassment... Audacity! because I can arrange everything easily on there; I change the volume level of each track on there and use it to pan some parts left/right. My mic is a Shure Beta 87A and I record the vocals in the same way as the music - Cubase then Audacity.

Some parts (like the drums) are obviously on a loop, I record a pre-set beat from my keyboard so I can get my timing right when recording my own beat, I then delete the pre-set one that I initially recorded.

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Well yes, you're giving yourself extra work by moving between two sequencer programs, either of which could have done the whole job!

You've got a lot going for you. There are plenty of musical ideas there, and you're not frightened of the sound of your own voice (many people HATE the sound and try to disguise it with effects).

There are some issues with the mix. In the last part of the song, where the texture thickens both instrumentally and by adding background vocals, it gets muddy. The voice needs room to be heard. Mostly this is a matter of not over-arranging the music (if you want to add another layer does it need to be sustained, does it need to be in the same frequency range as the voice?) but can also be helped by mixing techniques (panning, using reverb and delay to set some sounds "forward" others "back", using eq to cut out ranges that cover up the voice). There are plenty of articles on this topic in the SOS back issues.

How are you monitoring your mixes? Good speakers let you hear what you're doing, and minimise the number of times you have to remix after hearing the result on other real-world playback systems - domestic hi-fi, car system, iPod etc. And, although it may seem an obsession in audio discussion groups, the room characteristics DO matter!

Do you have a friend also into music production? Letting someone else try mixing one of your projects can be very productive, even if you don't always agree!

One last point. Nothing wrong with your desire to stay mininmal and lo-tech. But make sure this philosophy serves you, rather than controls you.

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Quote narcoman:

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I like the electronic vibe actually - screw the band.

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Thank you, I understand how cheesy the music sounds... my keyboard was £40 from a charity shop!! But I thought I could maybe use the quirkiness to my advantage. I was even considering getting a little old Yamaha from the 80's to use live...

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Totally and bang on. Keep it up - I'd continue down that road.

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and don't listen to the naysayers, I'm sure the likes of Morrissey were told to 'forget it' many times over. Why? because they dared to be different.

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seriously, go to any 'hippie' festival and you'll hear this kind of pseudo-mystical keening all day. Nothing different in my opinion - massively dated if you ask me. (Sorry Freya, I spent quite a few years living on the road, and was subjected to a million pagan girls doing a similar thing!)

I wouldn't ever try and halt a person being creative and making whatever music they feel - but'the next Ga Ga'?....what a horrific thought!

As for the quality - well, it is what is is. It'll sound better with time and experience and a couple more charity shop keyboards

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I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over
Twitter

Quote geefunk:

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seriously, go to any 'hippie' festival and you'll hear this kind of pseudo-mystical keening all day. Nothing different in my opinion - massively dated if you ask me. (Sorry Freya, I spent quite a few years living on the road, and was subjected to a million pagan girls doing a similar thing!)

I wouldn't ever try and halt a person being creative and making whatever music they feel - but'the next Ga Ga'?....what a horrific thought!

As for the quality - well, it is what is is. It'll sound better with time and experience and a couple more charity shop keyboards

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I don't even strive to become the next Lady GaGa! She used her image to get famous, not really her music... and the music that comes out of most pagans is just 'airy fairy' stuff, thinking they're all esoteric and weird... maybe that's the way I come across to you...

'We all come from the Goddess and to her we shall return, like a drop of rain, flowing to the ocean' hahaha

Quote geefunk:

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seriously, go to any 'hippie' festival and you'll hear this kind of pseudo-mystical keening all day.

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Well, yes. It is a very 17-year-old goth/emo/whatever thing (may the Goddess strike me down if I've pinned the wrong label on it :-) If she's still working in the same style in 10 years time I'll be rather worried!

But you can only set out from where you are. This is what she feels now, and as teenage-girl-songwriter stuff goes it's nicely done, musically inventive and she isn't rubbish at the technical side. Encouragement and advice well in order, I think.

(Any bets on whether she's really named Brittany and lives in Acton? :-)

20 points for being condescending and mischievous? Sorry, Freya! Really, keep at it. There's some good stuff there!

I would say don't listen to any advice regarding the music! Sure , listen to business advice but if you love what you are doing and are self critical and have broad shoulders...then keep doing what you are doing..enjoying the creativity.Dave

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My head hurts!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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(Any bets on whether she's really named Brittany and lives in Acton? :-)

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LOL

Quote turbodave:

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self critical

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This is one of the most difficult things to keep in balance. Seeking advice from people whose advice you feel you can trust is a big help, but fundamentally any self-driven creative endeavour is hard graft in a lonely place. I'm not trying to further any "tortured artist" waffle, just saying you have to at once believe in your own ideas and methods, while not being swayed by outside opinion, and yet not be stuck in the belief that it's good because it express your thoughts* or whatever - it takes years I think to get to a point where you can trust yourself to be able to critique and assess your own material, but it's the single greatest strength in making it the best it possibly can be.

*often beginners will think they have hit the nail on the head, when it's more likely that they've made something that somehow expresses what they felt when they made it - and when they revisit it, they conjure up that feeling again in a kind of Pavolvian reverie. That isn't the same thing as making a piece that makes other people feel like that - a much harder task. But the way to the latter is through the former. And years of absorbing everything. And hardcore feedback.

Advice to not listen to criticism is unhelpful I think, there's no point pretending that there isn't a range of response to stuff. Being able to discern what kind of criticism it is can help though, and being able to filter it - not to ignore it but to ask where they're coming from and if that's valid to what you need in making it better. Giving and taking criticism is hard work and much divorced from simple comment about liking something or not.

There's a great quote from Martha Graham about this kind of thing - about not even having to believe in yourself or need it accepting by others - but to do it, to carry on and make what you do the best you can make it - and if you can do that, you're going the right way.

Quote nathanscribe:

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There's a great quote from Martha Graham about this kind of thing - about not even having to believe in yourself or need it accepting by others - but to do it, to carry on and make what you do the best you can make it - and if you can do that, you're going the right way.

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Yup. "Self-belief" is a fashionable concept, "quality" an unfashionable one. But only the second matters.

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*often beginners will think they have hit the nail on the head, when it's more likely that they've made something that somehow expresses what they felt when they made it - and when they revisit it, they conjure up that feeling again in a kind of Pavolvian reverie. That isn't the same thing as making a piece that makes other people feel like that - a much harder task. But the way to the latter is through the former. And years of absorbing everything. And hardcore feedback.

Advice to not listen to criticism is unhelpful I think, there's no point pretending that there isn't a range of response to stuff. Being able to discern what kind of criticism it is can help though, and being able to filter it - not to ignore it but to ask where they're coming from and if that's valid to what you need in making it better. Giving and taking criticism is hard work and much divorced from simple comment about liking something or not.

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Thanks, your words are wise. I can understand how it's easy to feel as if you've really 'got it' when a song resonates with how you're feeling at that particular time, it's important not to be too self-indulgent if you want to connect with other people. I am very self-critical, I'm usually happy with a song immediately after it's completed but this feeling fades as soon as I begin the next project... I'm always looking for ways to move forward, I hate going back to things.

I'm amused. You must have got something to get such a debate under way! That's the nature of true art!

It would be well worth approaching someone to help you with the production. You really have no need to be exporting from Cubase - that DAW is perfectly capable of handling the whole thing end to end (arguably more easily that Audacity!) and there are plenty of plug-ins that would replace those cheesey keyboard parts.

The trick with cheesey sounds is layering them against big, expansive sounds - that way both types of sound find new meaning by being juxtaposed against opposites. It suddenly sounds like you *mean* it to sound that way, not just because it's the best you can do.

Good luck with it!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote nathanscribe:

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There's a great quote from Martha Graham about this kind of thing - about not even having to believe in yourself or need it accepting by others - but to do it, to carry on and make what you do the best you can make it - and if you can do that, you're going the right way.

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Yup. "Self-belief" is a fashionable concept, "quality" an unfashionable one. But only the second matters.

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Yes, you can have as much self-belief as you like but the only place it will get you any further is in your head, you may have absolutely no belief in yourself, yet the quality of your music may be outstanding. The two are independent of each other.

Quote The Elf:

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I'm amused. You must have got something to get such a debate under way! That's the nature of true art!

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Or the nature of being an attractive teenage girl :-)

Quote The Elf:

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It would be well worth approaching someone to help you with the production. You really have no need to be exporting from Cubase - that DAW is perfectly capable of handling the whole thing end to end (arguably more easily that Audacity!) and there are plenty of plug-ins that would replace those cheesey keyboard parts.

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He he, I like Audacity.
Without sounding stupid, what is a plug-in?

Quote CelticFreya:

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Yes, you can have as much self-belief as you like but the only place it will get you any further is in your head, you may have absolutely no belief in yourself, yet the quality of your music may be outstanding.

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Careful! This could turn into the affectation of false modesty :-) Despite flattery from those who love you (or see a way of getting money from you) if you feel you're rubbish, very likely you're right!

When you come down to it, there's only one benchmark. Does anyone outside your family want to pay for the product?

Words of advice are like colours...theres a lot of 'em..and most you will have heard before...even these words are a cliche...stop asking others about what is coming out of YOUR head and get on. Dave

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My head hurts!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Careful! This could turn into the affectation of false modesty :-) Despite flattery from those who love you (or see a way of getting money from you) if you feel you're rubbish, very likely you're right!

When you come down to it, there's only one benchmark. Does anyone outside your family want to pay for the product?

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Yes, not very often do people think they're terrible and they're wrong, it's usually the case that people think they're good when they are actually terrible!
I'm not trying to say that personal opinion of your own work doesn't matter at all.

Quote turbodave:

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Words of advice are like colours...theres a lot of 'em..and most you will have heard before...even these words are a cliche...stop asking others about what is coming out of YOUR head and get on. Dave

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My initial question was asking about the SOUND quality of my music, NOT the quality of my IDEAS.
But you're right, this thread is turning into load of cliches!

Quote CelticFreya:

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He he, I like Audacity.

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Hmmm...

Quote CelticFreya:

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Without sounding stupid, what is a plug-in?

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It's the gateway to a world without the limitations of that keyboard of yours! Do I detect someone who hasn't read the Cubase manual?...

Seriously, we are opening up a vast can of worms here, and a can that is far bigger than can be decribed in a few forum postings. Dig into that Cubase manual and a lot will (hopefully) begin to become clear!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.