Please note that we are about to make some substantial changes to the forum structure, and as a result all of the forums will be closed on Friday 15th July and will reopen on Saturday 16th July if not before.

This should not affect your use of the rest of the site or your user account in any way.

You can read more about the changes here.

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
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Edited by Jennifer Jones (15/07/11 04:31 PM)

We have now completed all the necessary changes.

OVERVIEW OF THE CHANGES
You will notice that we have condensed the original structure from 33 forums to just 13.

MRT has been renamed to Recording & Production (R&P) - into which most of the forums that have been removed have been amalgamated. You'll be able to find all the posts in here in date order. Use the search facility at the bottom of the forum page to find threads you may have been interested in

One of the most substantial changes we've made is to allow promotional material - but this is quite complex. You'll notice a new forum on the index called "Product & Industry News". This replaces our "Latest News" forum, and is a place for manufacturers and distributors to post press releases and information relating to new products, updates, events, exhibitions, competitions, special offers and even job vacancies. Individuals are encouraged to post promotional material in any forum they wish - as long as they are not excessive about it. Additionally, any promotional material that is not considered relevant to the community (e.g. if someone's trying to flog gold jewellery...) then this will be removed. Please do not abuse these relaxed rules.

The forum rules have also changed, so you should take a look at these and make sure you have read and agree to the changes.

Finally, obviously we've updated the colour scheme a little bit. This is likely to change in the future, depending on the feedback we get!

SO WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED?
If you are an individual (i.e. you don't own a company that makes music gear or employs lots of people), you are free to post promotional material in any forum, but please make sure you are restrained about how frequently you post and how much you post.

If you are a manufacturer or distributor of music gear, or a company otherwise associated with music recording and production, you are free to post promotional material in the Product & Industry News, but PLEASE follow the guidelines included. You are NOT allowed to post promotional material in other forums. We have this restriction in place as we have a number of banner adverts on our site that are paid for - and many of our advertisers would get quite annoyed at the relaxed attitude of the forums. This is why we have a designated place for all 'free' advertising. We also have a readers' ads facility that you are welcome to use.


FINALLY...
As with all things, please be sensible about WHAT you post, WHERE you post and HOW MUCH you post, and the moderating team will be very happy.

Abuse of these rules will not be tolerated - anyone found to be in breach of these guidelines or the forum rules risks their posting rights being revoked and their posts removed.

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Ooo! How exciting! Here I am posting while the forums go through their transitional phase.. It's like, eerie! Ok, not really..

Anyway, Own up.. Who choose this rather camp shade of blue'y purple I am currently witnessing!?
If that doesn't deter those rogue spammers, nothing will

Happy Friday!

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Paul

WHY CHANGE IT ALL? It was fine as it was, and now it is dreadful.

No dedicated mics and micing.

So that's me out for good. I won't but the mag again either.

Agreed about the Microphone section... that was pretty much the only forum I used. This section surely warrants a section to itself? It's a huge area and I've had lots of help here and it's often interesting...

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Excess makes the heart grow fonder

User Reviews is missing as well as the Microphone section.

So, does this mean that all the old posts are lost?

Doesn't look very good at the moment.

Sorry.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Trying to find anything now is seriously hard work I simply can't understand the reason for jamming so many totally disparate topics together.

On a more serious note, where it the D.I.Y. warnings sticky thread? This is important stuff

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.


not a single mic post is "missing" they're all in here somewhere...



we've tried the separate forums and specialised sections thing , in assorted forms, ever more disparate, for years , and i think it's fair to say we've have generally come to the conclusion that separating everything out, means many people , who only use 1 forum, out of many, never see things that might otherwise interest them, or respond with the benefit of their wisdom to posts that they know the answer to but never see because of their tendency to only inhabit one area... some people may feel the need to say "i told you so" from way back when we started V3 of the forums.




there's even some case to be made for only having ONE forum, and letting everything go on in there.... but that truly would be chaos.


however, a new balance is being found,.... it may yet change a little more....

so let's see how it goes

one cannot please all of the people all of the time...



and new shoes need a bit of wearing in.....

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Changing from MRT to Recording and Production seems to shift emphasis from technology (gear) to workflow.

Is that what was intended?

Also-I am very sorry to see the mic and mic technique forum go. That is, after all, both a very specialized area and a very large area.

It is too bad one will have to wade through oceans to to find needed information-and it won't be in one place, rather hundreds or thousands of tiny places.

I was both surprised and pleased when that forum was created.

As for colors: I think I've died and gone to IBM, Xerox, or MS for "permanant retirement." It seems cold and ugly to me, but that's all rather subjective. Admittedly, it might be churlish to complain about color, but since you asked..............

A question: Was there a big, obvious problem that needed fixing? If there was, I never encountered it nor did I see any mention of it. I suspect other forum participants didn't, either.

People do complain a great deal when their favorites forums are changed, so I'm sure we'll all give it a go.

This is an unmittigated disaster. A complete and total shambles.

It is an ABSOLUTELY UNBREAKABLE RULE of the International Guild of Programmers that whenever changes are made to an application or service, it MUST be accompanied by a change of colour scheme.

Apparantly.

Quote Jeraldo:

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Changing from MRT to Recording and Production seems to shift emphasis from technology (gear) to workflow.

Is that what was intended?

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I do hope so! The hobby is blighted by people with too much gear but no idea of what to do with it.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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I do hope so! The hobby is blighted by people with too much gear but no idea of what to do with it.

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+1

OK, one more thing.

Was the logic that a reader would come to a completely unorganized überforum, and use an index or search function for every website visit?

I can only speak for myself, but I sense is that people like to *browse* forums for threads that match their interests.

Because that is really the only way the forums can now be deciphered. Recording and Production is now just one big ocean of unrelated threads.

Using an index and a search function for every visit is not fun. When one or two others above said something to the effect of "this is it for me," I thought the reaction was premature and extreme.

Well, now I see their point. I have no intention of leaving, it would be entirely my own loss. By the experience of visiting the forums has gone from enjoyment to wading through an unending disorganized mess.

Again: What was the problem that needed fixing? There is now a problem that needs fixing: How to find things of interest and relevance.

Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.

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So...
Where is that sticky SAFETY thread? The one that was right at the top of the D.I.Y section

As I said, this is serious.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.


not a single mic post is "missing" they're all in here somewhere...

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Now that they're all "here somewhere", will you and your colleagues please organize them so they may be easily found?

Well, I'm willing to try the new arrangement (although I also mourn the loss of Microphones as a separate forum) but I worry that putting lots of the old forums into one super-forum will mean a very busy forum where stuff simply disappears of the bottom of the page very quickly and get missed. Threads start to fill with posts that have just one word in them: bump, simply in order to get the thread back to the top. I've seen this happen elsewhere and you might do well to watch out for this.

But I'm sorry, can we please, please have the old colour scheme back?

CC

Edit: it looks like it's only Firefox that's getting this repulsive collection of pinks and reds. Safari and IE9 are completely different and much more tolerable.

Edit 2: Sorry, Firefox has now caught up with the others now. All very confusing, really.

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Its a shame to lose the separate Microphones , Vintage, DIY & Music theory forums.
I always view 'Latest threads' so I'll still see all the posts but having sections was very useful for finding a subject that someone posted a few weeks / months ago.

Like the rationalised layout, but not liking the CPU our scheme. In fact, it's straining my eyes a bit!

Quote Folderol:

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Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.

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So...
Where is that sticky SAFETY thread? The one that was right at the top of the D.I.Y section

As I said, this is serious.

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Just done a search for the SAFETY thread and made it a sticky one for everyone

We'll probably have to thin out the sticky threads a bit though so they don't become nwieldy


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

I know it's small consolation, but the changes to the structure are as new to us on the mod team as they are to everyone else and we need to learn our way around too. So I promise that we will be taking everything you say on board and doing our best to find solutions. And a big thanks to Max! for getting here so early and starting that process.

Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

I am someone who read every post in a number of the forums that have disappeared, so I am still struggling to find my feet as well. Recording & Production has become a massive forum and it is easy to feel that more specialist interests are being ignored. However, what we were seeing was that people were confused over where to post and were resorting to multiple postings. Similar discussions were taking place in a number of the old forums with some members involved in all of them, and others just seeing a small part. It was common for members to link to threads in other parts of the forum.

Not counting the mods forum, I was a regular in 8 forums reading every post every day and contributing. But already I am seeing posts from people I have never seen before who have hundreds of posts to their name.

Yes, there will be a learning curve for all of us, but on balance I am sure we can find a way to make the new structure work better for us all. Maybe we just need to think about how we use the subject line when starting new threads.

And keep letting us know what you think.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

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Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

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Less sticky threads, not more, please. It's too hard to spot the real content (ie. non-sticky) threads now.

Then again, hopefully we don't need 2 on copyright, 2 on rules, 2 on students and homework.

As for copyright, I'd have thought such issues now belong in the new Music Business forum.

Whither noobs?

Or maybe the intention WAS to put them off?

Dave.

Forum looks weird...

The logo is red, so I'd have assumed the forum to incorporate that, not a random lilac.

I know some people aren't happy with less sub-forums but it looks better at first glance, so is better for a noob or someone like myself who doesn't visit too often. I'm surprised there was no consultation with your membership though (I guess the consultation happens now when a number of people air their views, people don't like change though).

Consultation Mo'?
Since when has ANY forum been a democracy?

"Basic Rule of The Corporate Universe"
Organizations with even only a small amount of "power" will only give up the barest smidgeon of that power when pressed very hard and only then after shouting BBMurder about it!

But, SoS are one of the best and I shall stay and be a thorn.

Dave (aka cynical old bugger)

Quote ef37a:

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Consultation Mo'?
Since when has ANY forum been a democracy?

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True, but forum's are VERY fickle. The reason people come here is because they like what it currently is, so if you are wishing to spend resources, time, effort in making changes it would be sensible to put forward what you propose.

I've been on a number of forums who made changes, and in almost every occasion people have preferred the previous incarnation. So for me, inviting maybe a focus group of people who actually use the place to bounce ideas off would make the whole thing smoother, and will stop you (SOS) wasting time reversing some of the changes that the readership would prefer not to have.

I'm not too fussed either way, I come here for the content but the previous one was nicer to use.. whether that was just familiarity more than anything though...

"Surveys" are anathema to me!
Two examples:

Yesterday I wanted the XP drivers for an M-A fasttpro. Blinking page of totally unneeded questions! (tip, don't answer, you still get your drivers!) THEN to add I to I they popped up ANOTHER bloody questionare for me to fill in afterwards.

2) Over some weeks I have been having a running ding dong with Dabs Ireland. At one point I mentioned it would not be long before Market Research sent me a form? Sure enough a day or so later one arrived! Needless to say I filled it in to say their customer service was whale poo!
Same with BT. In fact it seems a rule that the more Byzantine the company the more pages the survey runs to. I tell them to pay more and better staff to man the 'puters and stop wasting time and money on surveys!

Dave.

I can live with a lot of the changes - but losing all the User Reviews was a bit drastic.

There is no other area to put them, other than in the Product and Industry News area and this area is totally empty. A sticky at the top of this to User Reviews would have been a good idea.

Are they really all lost for good?

If I had thought this I would have saved various ones.

Microphones and mic. technique really *did* need a forum of its own. It was good when it started and sad now.

The problem with larger forums is that you *have* to look every day and posts easily get lost in the mass of others.

A fix needed, but not done, it seems, is the one to jump to first unread post that all other forums have - this is needed even more when you have fewer forums with a higher throughput.

Colour - I preferred the old colour - the SOS forum was definitely the best of them all and, unfortunately, these changes seem to have downgraded the forum rather than upgrading it.

Sorry - I am not moaning for the sake of it, as the SOS forum was the best of the lot and I can see that some of the changes make sense. But it does seem that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater in some instances.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Just noticed that the User Review sticky is in the main forum - Please - NO.

The reviews will get totally lost in traffic and will be impossible to find if you need to link to a review in another post.

Please put them back in their own forum - or incorporate them into the Product and Industry News forum!

Sorry - getting more unhappy the more I look.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

In any thread, I'm probably going to end up reading the message at the bottom of the page.

SOME of the navigation choices are duplicated here. But not the two I'm most likely to need - My Home and Today's Active Topics. So I have to scroll back up to the top.

I would just add that some of the organisational aspects are likely to be an ongoing process.....

creating forums is relatively easy and painless, MIGRATING them is a PITA.... and doing so wholesale requires temporary closure of the forum.... but streamlining was felt necessary....


for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO.... SO , thread title should read

" MICS: does the shure sm58 hurt when you drop it on your foot? "

" DIY: the tracks are lifting when i try and solder these components what am i doing wrong? "


"REVIEW: I just bought a new toy and it's fabulous "



this makes it easier for people to find, and in the event of any further restructuring , easier for us to move stuff.

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Quote:

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for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO

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At risk of upsetting you, you're assuming everyone will A/ read this instruction, B/ actually do it... this system emphasizes that something has gone a bit wrong as far as I can tell.

I for one won't really use SOS forums without a dedicated Mic & Techniques section because I've had so much help, knowledge and expertise from there. I get my advice on DAW's & OS's in more dedicated forums.

Thats what forums are all about at the end of the day... choice and flexibility. Imagine if http://www.freeforums.org/ decided to merge all their content under 'bands'. I want to discuss Chas and Dave and others are banging on about U2.

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Excess makes the heart grow fonder

Quote chris...:

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Quote zenguitar:

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Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

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Less sticky threads, not more, please. It's too hard to spot the real content (ie. non-sticky) threads now.

Then again, hopefully we don't need 2 on copyright, 2 on rules, 2 on students and homework.

As for copyright, I'd have thought such issues now belong in the new Music Business forum.

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I agree Chris, and I know Martin feels the same. We need to do some housekeeping with the stickies, remove the duplicates and ones that are no longer appropriate.

Quote ef37a:

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Whither noobs?

Or maybe the intention WAS to put them off?

Dave.

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Definitely not putting off the noobs Dave, we were still getting lots of newbie questions in the other forums and the Newbie Forum was becoming a spam magnet. Newbies are welcome throughout the forums.

As for consultation, the management discussed the changes extensively with the Mod Team. And people forget that the mods are long standing members and users of the forum as well.

The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post. The same keyboards were being discussed in Vintage, Keyboards, MRT and even PC Music; despite there being a dedicated microphones forum, there were plenty of microphones and technique questions spread across the other forums; members were posting their mini reviews of equipment across the forums.

Yes, everyone had a clear idea of what the old forums were for, but that was often very different than other people's ideas about the same forum. Vintage Gear was very much like that, full of disputes and arguments that essentially came down to "you just don't get it!!!!"

For each of the old forums there was a perfectly good case for keeping it. But that would leave us back at square one, with too many forums. The new forums were created by merging the old forums. No thread or post has been removed, and a search will find them.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

So far I haven't read any rational positive reason for these changes which I view as being a backward step.

Particularly, the abolishment of the Mics forum is a great disappointment. I enjoy these fora because you can focus in on a particular area and not have to wade through rubbish. Now several fora are merged it will become frustrating and more time consuming to sift through.

It all seems like a dumbing down exercise. Gearslutz here we come!

And for Max to suggest we should tag threads is utter nonsense and a clear admission that this has been a mistake.

I strongly suggest you revert to the previous range of fora before you are further embarrassed.

By the way, I don't care what it looks like, it's content that counts.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

maybe instead of trying to suggest helpful solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier, he should just keep his trap shut then Bob???

Quote zenguitar:

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The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post.

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Talk about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut........

So because some people posted in the wrong fora, everyone now has to wade through a handful of general fora - has this really been thought through?

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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maybe instead of trying to suggest helpful solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier, he should just keep his trap shut then Bob???

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But he's really saying the new system isn't going to work and that we'll need to tag threads in order to find them, which of course won't work as most people won't, so how is that an improvement?

I'm happy for mods to suggest solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier...................... reverting to fora users would like would be a very good start!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

no I wasn't saying that Bob... I was merely making a suggestion that i thought helpful. no subtext implied, or intended .

i would also add that a number of other users have already said they rather like many aspects of the new format....


but given the number of registered users, we know that we're never going to please everyone.... about everything,..... that won't stop us trying however...

i still say it's a work in progress... there are bits and pieces that haven't come out quite as expected i think, and there are some permissions issues, and graphic issues to be nailed down, and so on....

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Yes, accept there's a settling down process with technical aspects, no problem there, but settling down won't change the fact that interesting (for me), more specialist fora have been merged.........

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote siderealxxx:

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Quote:

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for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO

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At risk of upsetting you, you're assuming everyone will A/ read this instruction, B/ actually do it... this system emphasizes that something has gone a bit wrong as far as I can tell.

I for one won't really use SOS forums without a dedicated Mic & Techniques section because I've had so much help, knowledge and expertise from there. I get my advice on DAW's & OS's in more dedicated forums

Thats what forums are all about at the end of the day... choice and flexibility. Imagine if http://www.freeforums.org/ decided to merge all their content under 'bands'. I want to discuss Chas and Dave and others are banging on about U2.

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Sorry mate you haven't twigged it yet. SoS is a business and like most others they run their "customer communication" to THEIR rules and convenience not ours. The spam point is revealing...
In over 3000 posts and more lookings in I have never found spam a problem and my first port of call is (was!) the noob section*. Spam bothers administartion, noob section attracts spam, orf!

Don't get me wrong I love and will still love the forum for the first class information we get. But the Money Men has spake.

Then there is the lack of logic: I am, as you might expect happy that guitars (and amps) has not been chopped but if THAT is valid specialized area why IHN are not microphones and preamps?

*I am, in so many ways, still a noob.

No doubt I shall blunder around with you all and find what I need!

Dave.