Quote Max!:

---

for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO.... SO , thread title should read

" MICS: does the shure sm58 hurt when you drop it on your foot? "

" DIY: the tracks are lifting when i try and solder these components what am i doing wrong? "


"REVIEW: I just bought a new toy and it's fabulous "

---

Fair enough. Will you in return be personally retrospectively tagging all existing threads according to this new protocol so that the search function works as desired?

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

Just a thought, but could you have a drop down box beside the subject line that would offer a set of predefined prefixes such as "Review:", "Microphones:", "Newby:" etc: That way you would get some standardisation in prefixes that would ensure Search would be reliable. You could even offer the same drop down box on the Search screen. I have to say for me it would still be a workaround, but it would be better than the current free-for-all.

CC

PS I've said on the Feedback forum, thanks for the latest colour scheme. It's a great relief.

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

I'm not sure if the current forum software will allow that, but it is an excellent idea CC. Even if the current software doesn't allow it, it might be possible in the next software update later this year.

So I've posted in the mods forum and linked to your post.

Thanks

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Now this is getting seriously stupid guys.

There have now been two suggestions about categorizing threads within the larger fora which mods are saying is a good idea, because people are having difficulty finding threads - in other words mods are admitting the merging of smaller fora is making it really difficult to find stuff.

Add to that the outcry of losing boutique fora.........

Respected members are leaving the fora..........

When is someone going to have the guts to say the change has been a very bad idea.

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

The biggest problem we have, Bob, is that the forum software is an old version of something that these days a lot of people take for granted.

Implementing 'sub forums' or categorising posts or a whole host of other nice features that a lot of forums have is just not possible in the current setup, so we have to find ways round it. Ultimately we are hoping to move everything across to a newer system, but this is a slow process because we have a vast database linked to personal accounts that we can't just simply lift up and plonk somewhere else and expect it to work. There are lots of tests and experiments going on behind the scenes to see what is viable and what has potential but is tricky to implement.

This takes, understandably, a LOT of time and effort, so it's not an overnight process at all. The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one, since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat and also means that cross-pollinating discussions are kept in one place. We've had a lot of issues with people posting the same thing in multiple places because it wasn't clear where the boundaries were, so this is a much easier way for people to figure out the navigation of the forums.

Now, clearly, merging large forums together creates an issue in terms of the vastness of content - which is something we are trying to do something about.

So, please, I would be grateful if you could try to be more constructive instead of telling us how stupid we are and how bad the whole thing is. We're only trying to make things better for people

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

Now this is getting seriously stupid guys.

There have now been two suggestions about categorizing threads within the larger fora which mods are saying is a good idea, because people are having difficulty finding threads - in other words mods are admitting the merging of smaller fora is making it really difficult to find stuff.

Add to that the outcry of losing boutique fora.........

Respected members are leaving the fora..........

"When is someone going to have the guts to say the change has been a very bad idea."

Bob [/quote

As I said several posts ago Bob. I bet somebody already did!

Dave.

--------------------
#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The biggest problem we have, Bob, is that the forum software is an old version of something that these days a lot of people take for granted.

---

That doesn't make sense.............

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

Implementing 'sub forums' or categorising posts or a whole host of other nice features that a lot of forums have is just not possible in the current setup, so we have to find ways round it.

---

Which is exactly why we were better off with the old system.........

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

Ultimately we are hoping to move everything across to a newer system, but this is a slow process because we have a vast database linked to personal accounts that we can't just simply lift up and plonk somewhere else and expect it to work. There are lots of tests and experiments going on behind the scenes to see what is viable and what has potential but is tricky to implement.

---

That's understandable, sounds like you needed to do more technical research and indeed market research before making this inadequate, so called improvement.....

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

This takes, understandably, a LOT of time and effort, so it's not an overnight process at all.

---

Accepted.........

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one,

---

Shows you how out of touch you are with a number of us.................

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat and also means that cross-pollinating discussions are kept in one place.

---

That's why you have a general forum in addition to the boutique ones.............

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

We've had a lot of issues with people posting the same thing in multiple places because it wasn't clear where the boundaries were, so this is a much easier way for people to figure out the navigation of the forums.

---

So you need to be clearer in setting boundaries and descriptors............ this doesn't solve the problem, it hides it............

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

Now, clearly, merging large forums together creates an issue in terms of the vastness of content - which is something we are trying to do something about.

---

Reverting to smaller forums perhaps?...................

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

So, please, I would be grateful if you could try to be more constructive instead of telling us how stupid we are and how bad the whole thing is.

---

Actually, I have already made some constructive suggestions, which you have chosen to ignore..............

I said 'this' is getting stupid, based on an observation of the unconvincing arguments put forward so far, and the contradictions made by mods.................

Are you suggesting I'm not allowed to have an opinion on how good or bad the changes are?

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

We're only trying to make things better for people

---

And a number of people have the opinion that things are worse.............

My advice to you is that you start to take some of those opinions on board.

Oh, and it's nothing to smile about!

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

I sense a growing desperation here.
I am not happy with the changes but think I have made my views known.
I for one shall now fade away from this discussion with the strong impression that those we are getting at are doing the very best they can with a monumental task that I for one cannot begin to understand.

More sinned against than sinning is the phrase I was looking for!

Dave.

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one, since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat and also means that cross-pollinating discussions are kept in one place. We've had a lot of issues with people posting the same thing in multiple places because it wasn't clear where the boundaries were, so this is a much easier way for people to figure out the navigation of the forums.

---

Tidy List, Schmidy Schmist!

If duplicate posts in multiple places occur it's not a problem for the users. I don't just sell songs through Amazon, I use Itunes too!

If I was an expert (and I am a PC expert!) and I had to wade through thousands of irrelevant posts in this current merged thing to offer my help after having used what was the best pro audio forum on the net, why would I bother?.

It seems to me that most people out here agree that the decision to merge the forums was indeed a bad one.

Someone should record a song called 'Change It Back' to the tune of 'Paint It Black'.

Stratt

Quote ef37a:

---

I sense a growing desperation here.
I am not happy with the changes but think I have made my views known.
I for one shall now fade away from this discussion with the strong impression that those we are getting at are doing the very best they can with a monumental task that I for one cannot begin to understand.

More sinned against than sinning is the phrase I was looking for!

Dave.

---

Thanks, Dave. Yes, indeed! As I have said many(!) times, we are taking on board all the comments, and working as hard as we can behind the scenes. Phew.

I don't think I have much more to add to this thread for now as I'm just repeating myself.

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Guys, let's keep the comments constructive and not overload Jenny. She's doing all she can and the backroom staff are moving along with updates, fixes and changes all the time. This is an ongoing process so bear with us.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one, since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat and also means that cross-pollinating discussions are kept in one place.

---

Please don't assume this! I and many others do think the idea to merge forums was a BAD idea.

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

We're only trying to make things better for people

---

I don't doubt this and we appreciate the job you're doing. I'd suggest compiling or even polling the pros & cons here.

SOS is a specialist magazine and should cater for the pros and subsequently needs specialist forums. Look what's happened to Apple and FCPX in the last few weeks... people don't appreciate their resources watering down for the masses.

--------------------
Excess makes the heart grow fonder

I didn't assume that at all...

What I actually meant was nobody HERE being SOS Towers... The reason I made such a statement was because we (being SOS & Moderation team) all agreed that merging some forums and streamlining the number was a good idea. Obviously within that some of us had different opinions as to what should be merged with what (or not).

I did NOT mean the forum community - since clearly there have been a number of very vocal people expressing their negativity about the various changes, including the merging.

I hope that clarifies things...

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Quote Zukan:

---

Guys, let's keep the comments constructive and not overload Jenny. She's doing all she can and the backroom staff are moving along with updates, fixes and changes all the time. This is an ongoing process so bear with us.

---

Hear hear. I've not tried to hide the fact that I'm not keen on the changes, but I've tried to be polite about it at least, and offer some suggestions which might even be helpful in the current environment. Whether you agree or not, I don't think Jennifer and the rest are doing this out of some vindictive streak or any other discreditable motive. So let's be a bit more gentle in the language, huh?

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

I did NOT mean the forum community - since clearly there have been a number of very vocal people expressing their negativity about the various changes, including the merging.

---

He is a terrorist, I am a freedom fighter.
He "expresses his negativity", I disagree.

:-)

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one, since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat .... We're only trying to make things better for people

---

Jennifer, with the best will in the world none of your users care whether SOS people think it was a bad decision. Or whether the place looks tidy. What they think themselves is all that matters.

To give credit where it's due, there's some good points: I welcome the (long-promised) return of the OT forum and the relaxed rules on self-promotion. One of the reasons I gave up moderating 6 weeks ago was that I was tired of having to be anal, sanctimonious and hypocritical (often all at once) on these topics when my sympathies lay entirely with the poster I was supposed to admonish.

But I have two big concerns. The Mics forum was a priceless repository of wisdom and knowledge which is now so dispersed as to be utterly useless (you have no functioning search facility: if you doubt that, search "Neumann U87" in the hope of finding some useful information on how to use this mic - you get 73 threads to read). This was an industry-wide resource which to all intents and purposes has now been shredded.

Secondly, the scrapping (without consultation) of the User Reviews forum is to treat with contempt the many thousands of unpaid hours your own users put in to creating this. A search on "user review focusrite" (or any other brand name) produces no matches. The only practical (???) way of exhuming any of this stuff is to trawl through 47,000 past threads. Again, effectively, you've trashed it forever. Life's too short to find anything.

I can also sympathise with DIY forum regulars, which I personally only occasionally frequented, who have similar views.

On these issues, I think SOS has simply made a horrendous mistake, needlessly alienating lots of users. You are not going to persuade anyone you can't have two or three more subjects on a drop down menu.

You can either listen to what the members are telling you now, or compound the error.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Edited by Steve Hill (19/07/11 06:08 PM)

Quote Steve Hill:

---

But I have two big concerns. The Mics forum was a priceless repository of wisdom and knowledge which is now so dispersed as to be utterly useless (you have no functioning search facility: if you doubt that, search "Neumann U87" in the hope of finding some useful information on how to use this mic - you get 73 threads to read). This was an industry-wide resource which to all intents and purposes has now been shredded.

Secondly, the scrapping (without consultation) of the User Reviews forum is to treat with contempt the many thousands of unpaid hours your own users put in to creating this. A search on "user review focusrite" (or any other brand name) produces no matches. The only practical (???) way of exhuming any of this stuff is to trawl through 47,000 past threads. Again, effectively, you've trashed it forever. Life's too short to find anything.

---

I suppose it's JUST possible there's a full backup of the old system waiting to be restored?

Good post Steve .

I have already made my points and at the request of the mods I will not reiterate .

This goes against the grain as I feel the wishes of the forum userbase are being either ignored or poo pooed as negative by the mods .

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

So, please, I would be grateful if you could try to be more constructive instead of telling us how stupid we are and how bad the whole thing is. We're only trying to make things better for people

---

I don't think anybody was even remotely suggesting that you or anyone else at SOS were "stupid", since clearly, you are not. You have presented us with your reasoning for the changes, and I think a solid majority appreciates that.

However, the issue at hand is what works best for forum members, quite a few of whom are indeed seasoned professionals who come to these pages for clearly defined purposes. We like to share information, experiences, news and opinions. We like to help each other out (over the years, I've certainly benefited greatly from reading the mag and following the forums).

So, really, if we can all agree that our mutual intention is to make the forums the best they can be, it is then your choice to either take on board the criticism and move the forums to a better place, or ignore what has been said and watch a mass exodus. The ball is in your court. The way the forums are now organized, or shall I say, disorganized, is not satisfactory to quality posters. It is a question of practical usefulness, not attachment to ideas of who's right or wrong.

Quote Steve Hill:

---

One of the reasons I gave up moderating 6 weeks ago was that I was tired of having to be anal, sanctimonious and hypocritical (often all at once) on these topics when my sympathies lay entirely with the poster I was supposed to admonish.

---

Respect for admitting this much.

Quote Zukan:

---

Guys, let's keep the comments constructive and not overload Jenny. She's doing all she can and the backroom staff are moving along with updates, fixes and changes all the time. This is an ongoing process so bear with us.

---

That's a reasonable comment.

I've reviewed this thread and what comes through is a mix of criticism and support of the new system as well as a number of constructive suggestions - exactly what you'd expect.

Over and over again there have been requests to restore some old forums, mics and miking technique being requested more than others.

I have been disturbed that at no point has any mod or Jennifer even hinted that it might be a good idea to restore one or more of the old forums - I feel this is not on the agenda and I feel this is being stonewalled.

Consequently I'd like to ask Jennifer some very definitive questions, yes and no answers only please:

Will SOS restore the mics and mic technique forum?

Will SOS survey subscribers to see what forums they want?

If the answer to any of these questions is Yes, please give an expected time frame, so we don't need to hassle you in the meantime!

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

The Mikes and Miking forum was my main interest
Now its deceased I am indeed sad
Can it be reserected please.
Roger

--------------------
I am the Walrus.

Bring back ATARI ..... plz

Quote ROLO46:

---

The Mikes and Miking forum was my main interest
Now its deceased I am indeed sad
Can it be reserected please.
Roger

---

Me sad too, but methinks the message has been heard and I am trying to take the view that less is more!

However, if it is not resurrected would you consider directly injecting the contents of your brain into mine for a small fee?

Reg

Quote RegressiveRock:

---

Quote ROLO46:

---

The Mikes and Miking forum was my main interest
Now its deceased I am indeed sad
Can it be reserected please.
Roger

---

Me sad too, but methinks the message has been heard and I am trying to take the view that less is more!

However, if it is not resurrected would you consider directly injecting the contents of your brain into mine for a small fee?

Reg

---

Careful Reg !
I once paid him for that service and all I learned was kung fu

Get a grip, chaps.

The new Forum is just fine. And now I don't have to look in six different places to see what's going on.

Of course, the old analogue forum based on six racks of dedicated hardware was better.

These new-fangled computers, eh ?

Quote Steve Hill:

---

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

The decision to merge forums nobody here will agree was a BAD one, since we actually all agree that it tidies up the list somewhat .... We're only trying to make things better for people

---

Jennifer, with the best will in the world none of your users care whether SOS people think it was a bad decision. Or whether the place looks tidy. What they think themselves is all that matters.

To give credit where it's due, there's some good points: I welcome the (long-promised) return of the OT forum and the relaxed rules on self-promotion. One of the reasons I gave up moderating 6 weeks ago was that I was tired of having to be anal, sanctimonious and hypocritical (often all at once) on these topics when my sympathies lay entirely with the poster I was supposed to admonish.

But I have two big concerns. The Mics forum was a priceless repository of wisdom and knowledge which is now so dispersed as to be utterly useless (you have no functioning search facility: if you doubt that, search "Neumann U87" in the hope of finding some useful information on how to use this mic - you get 73 threads to read). This was an industry-wide resource which to all intents and purposes has now been shredded.

Secondly, the scrapping (without consultation) of the User Reviews forum is to treat with contempt the many thousands of unpaid hours your own users put in to creating this. A search on "user review focusrite" (or any other brand name) produces no matches. The only practical (???) way of exhuming any of this stuff is to trawl through 47,000 past threads. Again, effectively, you've trashed it forever. Life's too short to find anything.

I can also sympathise with DIY forum regulars, which I personally only occasionally frequented, who have similar views.

On these issues, I think SOS has simply made a horrendous mistake, needlessly alienating lots of users. You are not going to persuade anyone you can't have two or three more subjects on a drop down menu.

You can either listen to what the members are telling you now, or compound the error.

---

I *do* agree with Steve on this one.

While many of the changes are OK - having a separate Microphones and mic. techniques forum was a great idea and really should be restored.

The same goes for the User Review Forum.

These two, especially, really *do* need to be put back as they were.

Sorry - but I do think the decision on these was wrong.

Yes, I do agree about putting together some of the other forums, but *please* reinstate at the very least Microphones and User Reviews.

Many other Forums keep microphones separate and it's such a different skill than all the other effects that it really *does* need a Forum to itself.

Maybe you were not at SOS when the mic. forum was started; but it had been a frustration to many in the past that mics were in with the main forum - as soon as the mic. forum was started it became a success very quickly and has become a very useful tool for very many people. Putting it back in the main forum gives us all the difficulties again.

Personally I have found myself looking at SOS less since the change and more on other forums as SOS is getting more difficult to use now.

And - yes - I do understand that the SOS form is a very highly tweaked version of an older software version and it is extremely difficult to update because of the tweaks. So I *do* understand the difficulties you have and that certain things on other Forums cannot be implemented without a complete and utter re-build.

But I do think you compressed too far and that Mics and User Reviews really *do* need to be restored and, possibly, DIY as well.

Others OK.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Hi all,

Just to let you know that I have created an official 'feedback' thread for the forum changes. On Monday 25th July we will be reviewing all the feedback received and evaluating which changes we can (and would like to) implement.

Your views in this thread and others have already been taken into account, but if you would like to respond to the official thread you may do so here: http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=ForumFeed&am p;view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Thank you Jennifer, that's a great idea.

Can I suggest you place a sticky to that effect in all forums so that you capture as much feedback as possible to make your a analysis more meaningful.

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

Thank you Jennifer, that's a great idea.

---

Yes - thanks Jennifer

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Cheers JJ
Lets hope we can reach that magical consensus

...I just wanted to addsk, are there any good vintage gear forums elsewhere online?

Thanks.

I like the new colours. My eyes are happier. Thanks for changing it.

--------------------
Robin
NorthWood MediaWorks - Visit the Forest

This forum has started a stunt that studio-central imposed (I think. I now have the glimmer of a suspicion it could be me!) some months ago.

I am typing my usual drivel quite happily then I find I cannot see my words and the "thing" here

at the right hand side is at the bottom of the box. I can move it up a bit for one line then the process starts again and I lose my typing. It seems I can carryon typing blind and it gets writ so I can only assume it is some sort of disincentive to us ramblers?

Dave

Quote ef37a:

---

This forum has started a stunt that studio-central imposed (I think. I now have the glimmer of a suspicion it could be me!) some months ago.

I am typing my usual drivel quite happily then I find I cannot see my words and the "thing" here

at the right hand side is at the bottom of the box. I can move it up a bit for one line then the process starts again and I lose my typing. It seems I can carryon typing blind and it gets writ so I can only assume it is some sort of disincentive to us ramblers?

Dave

---

This is a bug that has already been reported in the Support Forum.

See this thread.

Please can we stop with all the digs at SOS (and me) about suspected malicious behaviour from SOS. It's getting quite draining when all we are trying to do is our job. As I posted in the feedback section, we are more than happy for constructive comments, and this week we have been discussing the feedback received so far, with a view to implementing changes fairly soon.

Thanks.

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Sorry!
Did not know! PROSTRATE with apologies!

Dave.

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

Please can we stop with all the digs at SOS (and me) about suspected malicious behaviour from SOS. It's getting quite draining when all we are trying to do is our job.

Thanks.

---

Ooo - touchy. Must have hit the right spot.

The Sibelius users among us are suffering too. Some idiot decided a Ribbon toolbar would be a good idea. They've bolted one on to the newly-released Sibelius 7. It's obtrusive, and you can't find anything.

Quote Ariosto:

---

Quote Jennifer Jones:

---

Please can we stop with all the digs at SOS (and me) about suspected malicious behaviour from SOS. It's getting quite draining when all we are trying to do is our job.

Thanks.

---

Ooo - touchy. Must have hit the right spot.

---

Bored now...

Please see my most recent post on the "Give Your Feedback" thread in the Feedback section.

I'm closing this thread now as otherwise we have two threads running in tandem on the same issue.

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
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