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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new
      #932442 - 04/08/11 12:59 PM
Hi, I wondered if anyone could offer any advice for this problem please - I am recording electric guitar straight into the input of the Novation Nio (using Ableton Live Lite). The problem is that even with the input gain (input 2 for guitar on the Nio) turned all the way down, it is still distorting on high attack notes.

I am recording directly in order to use plug-ins on the guitar but the problem seems to lie with the direct signal. When I've used amp mic'ing on the Nio I've had no problems with adjusting the gain to the right level to avoid distortion but can't seem to adjust it low enough for what I need now.

I don't want to solve the problem with turning down my guitar control (as I want the fullest tone from my Les Paul pick-ups). Can anyone help please?


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932448 - 04/08/11 01:43 PM
Further to my initial post I've tried another guitar, which seems to have a lower output and the problem is gone. Could it be that something like a Les Paul (with particularly high output) requires a DI box or something to make it more compatible with the interface?


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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 1837
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932476 - 04/08/11 03:53 PM
Hi Will,

Have you switched input 2 from 'mic' to the guitar symbol (on the right of the unit) to match the impedance? I'm presuming you're using the input on the front of the unit.

I've used pretty high output active pick-ups (much hotter than my Les Paul) & still had to crank the gain up a fair bit.

DM

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Dynamic Mike]
      #932485 - 04/08/11 04:49 PM
Hi DM,

Thanks for your reply - yes the Input 2 switch on the side of the Nio has been on the guitar symbol all the time so that doesn't seem to be the problem. The other guitar I tried (whose input was low enough not to distort) is a Schecter with active EMGs 81/85, which I would've expected to be louder than the LP.

Where you've said you normally have to crank the gain a fair bit on your Nio, my problem seems to be the opposite so maybe it's a problem with my Nio. I'm thinking maybe a DI box might come in handy for other stuff anyway & would be a plus if that would make it easier to record the Les Paul.

Best wishes

Will


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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 1837
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932527 - 04/08/11 11:57 PM
Hi Will,

I'm not sure whether a passive DI box attenuates the signal in the way you want. Do you have a line out socket on your amp, or an effects pedal with a bypass you could try first? If not a cheap active DI like the Behringer DI 120 with phantom power would allow you to use the XLR input, but if anything you'd have more gain. Don't worrry about the 'B' word, I've used their DI for years & it also doubles as a handy splitter so you can monitor through your amp when recording.

I know the nio is really picky about USB leads too, but I presume that would affect both inputs. There was also a know noise issue with early models, but that too would be global. I'm presuming you have just input 2 selected & FX to S/W switched off. Have you tried using the LP with a different interface just in case there's a connection issue that isn't apparent through the amp?

DM

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932561 - 05/08/11 08:59 AM
Thanks for the suggestions DM, I don't have another interface to try the LP through but I will try what you suggested with the amp line out and also effects pedals. Also will look into that Behringher DI, thanks


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9157
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Dynamic Mike]
      #932571 - 05/08/11 09:56 AM
Sorry to butt in, but I have to say that my experience of Behinger DI boxes differs. I have found them extremely noisy and quite unreliable. Not all Behringer gear is bad, and I use a few bits of their gear myself, but a DI box is definitely on my 'no' list.

If you do go the DI box route I'd suggest spending a little more and getting something that will pay you back for years to come.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932583 - 05/08/11 10:35 AM
Thanks for the advice Elf, I am looking at possible getting an ART DTI - what do you think of this compared to the Behringer?

It's around the £40 mark and literally at the top end of my budget unfortunately (but I have seen positive reviews of different ART boxes on this site, and the versatility of the outputs makes it more appealing). I also would prefer a passive box (which the ART DTI is) after reading Martin Walker's articles about reducing noise in computer audio.


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9157
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932587 - 05/08/11 10:55 AM
I have a couple of bits of ART gear, though not that particular one. It's fine for what it is. If it meets the budget then I'd certainly go that way, rather than opting for the Behringer.

There are a few DI boxes within your budget, but as with anything like this I'd personally prefer to stretch to the better models (I like the sound of Radial boxes, in particular) to save having to buy again in future. But budgets are budgets - just make the best of what you can run to.

Good luck with it!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17200
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932597 - 05/08/11 11:30 AM
Quote Will1402:

Thanks for the advice Elf, I am looking at possible getting an ART DTI - what do you think of this compared to the Behringer?

It's around the £40 mark and literally at the top end of my budget unfortunately (but I have seen positive reviews of different ART boxes on this site, and the versatility of the outputs makes it more appealing). I also would prefer a passive box (which the ART DTI is) after reading Martin Walker's articles about reducing noise in computer audio.




That ART DTI looks good to me, being particularly versatile on the connections front with its XLR/1-4-inch jack and phono sockets.

It ought to last you for many years


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932659 - 05/08/11 03:08 PM
Cool, thanks Martin - in that case that's the one I will go for!


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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 1837
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932725 - 05/08/11 11:31 PM
Hi Will,

I'd beg, steal or borrow one to try before you part with any money, because you're already plugging into a Hi-Z input. I suspect a DI box is going to make very little difference unless you were having problems with interference, ground loops, cable length degredation etc. Generally plugging a guitar into a Lo-Z input would give you a dull, slightly muted signal which is the opposite to what you're experiencing.

Just a thought but are you recording with the meters switched to 'input 1-2' on the nio otherwise you'll be monitoring the signal coming back out the DAW rather than the DirectFx input. Might also be worth checking the properties of any WAVs you've recorded to make sure you're leaving sufficient headroom. If your signal really is too high, you can further lower the input level using the software input control in the DirectFx rack.

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932758 - 06/08/11 10:31 AM
Hi DM, thanks for the tips - I've checked that the meters switch is set to input 1-2 and it still had the tendency to distort slightly (this is on the direct sound without any effects also, so any audio after the plug-ins still has the clipping from the dry sound intact). I've found however that, ironically, just lowering the bridge pickup on the Les Paul seems to have solved the problem (which wasn't too much of an unsatisfactory compromise given it was a fair bit louder than the neck P/U!)

The DI box still could be useful as I also do get glitchy noises coming through the audio (which I've been discussing on the top thread) - I'm just slightly confused as to where the box fits in the chain, if not between guitar and Nio (given that I'm using a simple set-up of Guitar > Nio > Laptop and just monitoring the sound through headphones into the Nio)?


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Will1402



Joined: 02/02/10
Posts: 18
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio new [Re: Will1402]
      #932852 - 07/08/11 11:47 AM
Just thought I would give this thread a bump, as I rather impulsely bought the ART DTI and am now confused as where I can put it in my set-up (as described above) to help with ground loops/glitches?


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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 1837
Re: Problem in recording direct guitar signal with Novation Nio [Re: Will1402]
      #932860 - 07/08/11 01:35 PM
Hi Will, you need to put it between the guitar & the input on the nio. Given that the audio out on the nio is through the USB cable you're gonna struggle to put it there. Personally if I were you though I'd put it back in the shop because I can't see that it's going to help.

Also having searched user feedback on a few other forums, if you're using a laptop it may actually add to your problems. You might be better with the Art Tube MP, then you get a pre-amp & directbox impedance matching for £30.

DM

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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