Hi all,

I've just bought a 1975 (I think!) master volume Fender Silverface Twin and have a dilemma I hope you may be able to help with.

The amp is in decent condition for it's age and all works but seems really underpowered at high volume.

I might be mistaken but assumed that a Twin with channel volume and master volume on 8/9 would be blisteringly loud but at a blues jam I took it to earlier in the week, it was out shouted by a 30 watt 1x12 Peavey valve amp...

I should also add that the amp has a pair of what look like disco / cheap DJ 12 inch speakers fitted (a brand I don't recognise but they definately aren't guitar amp speakers). They are both rated at 8ohms and appear to be correctly wired for 4ohms which I believe is correct.

I guess the low volume could be caused by one of, or a combination of the following:

1) My perception of how loud it should be being wrong

2) The speakers

3) Old valves that need replacing (would it be power valves or could faulty pre amp valves cause a drop in volume?)

4) Something 'internal' (transformer needing replacement or just needing a good service etc)

Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks, Jon

the speaker sensitivity makes a *huge* difference in how 'loud' the amp/cab is.
There's a good chance if they're not speakers meant for a guitar cab that they aren't as sensitive as you are used to / expecting. They will likely also be voiced differently, good if you like how they sound, not so good if you don't...

PS it is possible that someone intentionally put less sensitive drivers in so they could push the amp harder without deafening themselves. That said, sounds like you want more volume!

Just out of interest, was everybody else saying you were too quiet? We have to be careful as some players feel they are playing at the correct level when they are way too loud. I remember waiting for a band to finish sound checking, they were only a small rock band, and the guitar was deafening. After they had done a number the engineer asked if all was ok and the guitarist said he couldn't hear his guitar. I almost fell off my chair, I mean there wasn't anything else to hear:)

So please don't take offense, just want to be sure. I feel if the amp was that underpowered you should have spotted it at home. As you noticed it only at a gig there are often other factors - your perception of how loud you need to be, the acoustics, where your amp was situated etc. To be sure maybe get someone with experience of this amp to try it before you start replacing bits or sending it for repair.

I wish I had a nice old Fender Twin though, lucky you!

lots of possible issues but difficult to pin down without getting hands on.

One other thought about the speakers is that they could be wired out of phase with each other.

It's a 36 year old valve amp and a previous owner has replaced the drivers. Possibly because they wanted to change the sound, but it could be because the originals got blown, you just don't know.

I would highly recommend that you take it to a reputable amp tech for an assessment. Make sure it is safe and discover what, if any mods have been made and what, if anything, is wrong with it.

A Fender Twin flat out is a scary beast, or should be.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

My 1973 SF Twin has Green Jensen CN12 (8ohm)(Oxford 12T6 and JBL-D120F are also common with Eminence being installed in more modern twins). Your Output tubes (valves) ought to be quad 6L6 while your preamp tubes are typically quad 12AX7 and a matched pair of 12AT7. When properly biased these combinations produce a very loud output, regardless of the speakers. However,if you find yours is crapping out when you push it, then perhaps it is time to bring it in for a quick service...your speakers may need to be looked at or they might replace the tubes or, again, simply re-bias the amp to keep the valves optimally glowing. BTW, my 73 has a push pull toggle on the master for that extra High Gain push.

HTH, JWP

It doesn't sound right. If you turn a Twin full up you should have problems being in the same room with it.
I would get it checked out. It might sound so much better if there is something up with it, which I would say there is.

--------------------
Wild Hope FB

Hi chaps,

Brilliant, some ace advice there - thank you all.

I actually bought the amp from a friend at the jam night after he bought it along for me to test.

The price I paid reflected the horrible speakers, apparent volume issue and need for a service and valves etc. I don't mind spending a bit on it to get it working optimally but despite all of the above issues, it still sounds sweet and looks very cool!

I will definately get it serviced first (before spending money on speakers / valves etc) - hopefully by Dennis Brown who I believe is quite well known as an amp tech, is local to me and sold me a lovely Hammond T200 about 10 years ago!

Thanks again Jon

Sounds like you could have a problem with the speakers not being very good but I do recall that I bought a brand new Twin Reverb in the late 70's fitted with JBLs and it wasn't that loud at the top end of it's performance.......I changed it after a couple of years for a Musicman 212HD130EVM combo which was about twice as expensive but had far more gain and volume as I remember......if you find it's still not loud enough with decent speakers and a revalve you can always put a boost pedal on the input as the Fender Twin is incredibly clean on its input and will take a fair increase in level and volume before things get dirty....

If your tech sees there is quite abit of work to do, it might be worth getting it "Black-faced" at the same time. Silverface's can be brittle and hard sounding, OK for country clean, but if you want any warmth or a bit of drive, it's worth doing.

--------------------
Wild Hope FB

I noticed that tinkering with it this week - using my Suhr Shiba Drive with the volume boosted makes it significantly louder.

I also tested the speaker output through my Marshall 1936 cab last night and (despite the Ohm rating imbalance) it sounded like a different amp compared with the internal speakers, loud and very sparkly.. Theres hope for the old girl I think!

Thanks again for all the responses Jon

Hmm, given your recent testing either the speakers are incorrect for whatever reason (can you tell us make/model?), or perhaps there is some kind of attenuator wired inline with the speakers?

Given the age of the amp, there could have been loads of mods performed to try and tame the serious volume these amps kick out, so I would have a nose to see if there are any odd controls hastily wired in or anything odd between internal speakers and the amp output.

If not, a good pair of speakers should be a cheap upgrade.

Hewesy

Edited by Hewesy (11/08/11 11:23 AM)